GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: anOldMan on June 15, 2009, 02:15 AM



Title: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: anOldMan on June 15, 2009, 02:15 AM
What is the difference between an "Old School" kite and a kite from the "New School" besides the date it started in production. There seems to be a difference in the tricks that the kite can perform.

Can a "New School" kite perform all the "Old School" tricks? I have read that some of the newer kites can not perfrom an Axel correctly? By correctly, does this assume the TP definition of an Axel?

If the last question about the Alex is true. Then why is learning the Axel on a "New School" kite so important?





Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: chilese on June 15, 2009, 02:51 AM
In a nutshell:

Dinosaur: No standoff

Old School: Relatively short standoffs.

New School: Relatively longer standoffs.

Old School kites generally:
Don't easily come out of turtles.
Sit relatively flat in a turtle (nose and tail at same altitude)
Have a low aspect ratio ( sail area divided by wingspan )
Do spin tricks much flatter than new school kites (nose and tail at same altitude)
Do not do pitch oriented tricks (yoyos)
Fly in less wind for an equivalent sail area
Do not have weights in their keel to assist in pitch tricks
Do not have yoyo stoppers
Do not respond well to "yank and spank" tricks

There are exceptions. There always are. But these are the general guidelines. Feel free to add to the list or disagree with anything I've written.

You may have heard the term "perfectly flat axel". Even with old school kites, I rarely get a PFA™, but have done them.

If you want a truly beautiful old school look. Watch a Synchro do a 540 that lasts about 2 seconds. Flat, slow, graceful, ethereal.

Definitions change with time. What I would call a barrel roll on modern kites, most call a backspin. Turtles on modern kites have the nose pointed down within 30 degrees of vertical. A lazy susan got its name from a kite looking like its laying down on a revolving table. Now the kite looks like a drill bit pointing down.


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: JimB on June 15, 2009, 02:53 AM
It's a spectrum.

A really talented pilot can get a plank to trick.

Some old school kites have new school tendencies and visa versa.

In general, the most important differences, given similar kites, are to be found in bridle settings, weight distribution, stand off positions, and leading edge profiles.

And that's a fair question regarding learning the axel.

I can think of a number of pilots that never seem to axel at all.

If you had to come up with a single differentiating characteristic between old school and new school, you could just think of new school as "pitchy" and old school as "non-pitchy".

For a certain type of old school kite you might want to characterize it as "spinny".


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: chilese on June 15, 2009, 02:55 AM
Go to bed Jim. It's late.

Wait.... maybe it's early.  ???


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: kiteking on June 15, 2009, 03:05 AM
 old school  (http://www.kiteking.t35.com/inventory.html)


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: anOldMan on June 15, 2009, 09:36 PM
Thank you for the information. :)


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: ainokea on June 16, 2009, 09:56 PM
In a nutshell:

Dinosaur: No standoff

Old School: Relatively short standoffs.

New School: Relatively longer standoffs.

Old School kites generally:
Don't easily come out of turtles.
Sit relatively flat in a turtle (nose and tail at same altitude)
Have a low aspect ratio ( sail area divided by wingspan )
Do spin tricks much flatter than new school kites (nose and tail at same altitude)
Do not do pitch oriented tricks (yoyos)
Fly in less wind for an equivalent sail area
Do not have weights in their keel to assist in pitch tricks
Do not have yoyo stoppers
Do not respond well to "yank and spank" tricks

There are exceptions. There always are. But these are the general guidelines. Feel free to add to the list or disagree with anything I've written.

You may have heard the term "perfectly flat axel". Even with old school kites, I rarely get a PFA™, but have done them.

If you want a truly beautiful old school look. Watch a Synchro do a 540 that lasts about 2 seconds. Flat, slow, graceful, ethereal.

Definitions change with time. What I would call a barrel roll on modern kites, most call a backspin. Turtles on modern kites have the nose pointed down within 30 degrees of vertical. A lazy susan got its name from a kite looking like its laying down on a revolving table. Now the kite looks like a drill bit pointing down.

A "perfectly flat axel." For old school kites such as a NSR, (North Shore Radical) Spectra Edge and Reactor, Falhawk AVS, and Pro Comp just to name a few, can do "perfectly flat axels" with the best of them. These old school kites started freestyle flying back in the late 80's and early 90's. Way back then there were no kites with curved leding edges and a hundred stand offs on a kite. Times have changed, flying style have changed, and definitely kites have changed.

Ian


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: kitekrazy on June 28, 2009, 08:23 PM
In a nutshell:

Dinosaur: No standoff

Old School: Relatively short standoffs.

New School: Relatively longer standoffs.

Old School kites generally:
Don't easily come out of turtles.
Sit relatively flat in a turtle (nose and tail at same altitude)
Have a low aspect ratio ( sail area divided by wingspan )
Do spin tricks much flatter than new school kites (nose and tail at same altitude)
Do not do pitch oriented tricks (yoyos)
Fly in less wind for an equivalent sail area
Do not have weights in their keel to assist in pitch tricks
Do not have yoyo stoppers
Do not respond well to "yank and spank" tricks

There are exceptions. There always are. But these are the general guidelines. Feel free to add to the list or disagree with anything I've written.

You may have heard the term "perfectly flat axel". Even with old school kites, I rarely get a PFA™, but have done them.

If you want a truly beautiful old school look. Watch a Synchro do a 540 that lasts about 2 seconds. Flat, slow, graceful, ethereal.

Definitions change with time. What I would call a barrel roll on modern kites, most call a backspin. Turtles on modern kites have the nose pointed down within 30 degrees of vertical. A lazy susan got its name from a kite looking like its laying down on a revolving table. Now the kite looks like a drill bit pointing down.

A "perfectly flat axel." For old school kites such as a NSR, (North Shore Radical) Spectra Edge and Reactor, Falhawk AVS, and Pro Comp just to name a few, can do "perfectly flat axels" with the best of them. These old school kites started freestyle flying back in the late 80's and early 90's. Way back then there were no kites with curved leding edges and a hundred stand offs on a kite. Times have changed, flying style have changed, and definitely kites have changed.

Ian

 I still love NSR Radicals. If you spend a lot of time wiith them they can do some things. I hope to add a white one to my collection.


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: Sketch on July 15, 2009, 08:32 PM
Here is another one of those old School kites.....and n' OLD SCHOOL KITE KOOT holding it up to the sun.\

This kite saw hours and hours of flying during the early 90's and late 90s and has a good share of ribbons that hung in the kite shop for a number of years.
A great Team kite for its day...speed could be controlled so nicely by adjusting those outter stand-offs which gave a huge wind range.

OK! TIME TO SEE WHO IS OLD ENOUGH TO  PUT A NAME ON THIS KITE OR EVEN REMEMBER WHICH TEAM THAT USED THESE CUSTOM ONE OF A KIND KITES during 1990 through 1994 or 95?


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Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: sbrown on July 17, 2009, 10:07 PM
Goodwinds Zephyr (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1001.0;attach=941)?


Title: Re: Old School Kites ?????
Post by: Sketch on July 18, 2009, 01:20 PM
Goodwinds Zephyr ([url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1001.0;attach=941[/url])?

S. Brown...RIGHT ON!
This was one of the kites made for us by Kathy Goodwind and her gifted kite builder sonTodd...
Yes, from the early Team Zephyr daze-days (1992-95)
These kites were some of the first "quiet" low noise Choro Ballet Team kites.
That BIG LIGHT WEIGHT design could SPILL AIR instantly and then accelerate instantly with a quick tug, which really helped accent the musical routine at hand. Ground handling, straight line tracking and its ability to stop DEAD (NAILED TO THE SKY during a stall.)
Many Z's were sold..but SOOOOO few custom light weight ones with the adjustable outter standoffs and expensive tri-wrapped frames.
This one is from the 1993 season.

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