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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: inventorz on August 17, 2013, 10:43 AM



Title: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: inventorz on August 17, 2013, 10:43 AM
Hello,

I wanted to know from the experienced fliers:

Are there Classic Kites that are comparable in ability to modern stunt kites??

The Prism Elixir and the Prism Alien are both some of the more "pitchy" classic kites from the prism line.  From the pilots who have flown those kites, what are your thoughts?  Do they hold they own in todays modern array of tricks??

Thank you for sharing!


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: chilese on August 17, 2013, 11:19 AM
The Elixir dances (not with) above the rest of them.

Many have said the same thing in different words here before.

Without resorting to:
  small size
  tail weight
  yoyo stoppers
  stiff frame

The Elixir will do almost every trick to include:
  yoyo
  flying around in a yoyo
  both backspin and barrel roll

Better fliers than I can tell you the very few tricks it won't do.

With it's size and weight, tricks are done a bit more slowly, giving

the fans and pilot a little more time to see what is happening.

In addition it's beautiful, even on an overcast day...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PuF9IZB_134/S11lKdntZYI/AAAAAAABGCQ/sru5-kZ8pMM/s800/36584%2520Elixir%2520Group%2520Shoot.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2008Kites#5430607956102964610)



Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: tpatter on August 17, 2013, 11:57 AM
The first time that I flew an Eclipse I was shocked at how easily it tricked.   The kite is certainly more capable than most flyers.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: adx1592 on August 17, 2013, 12:13 PM
+1 on the Eclipse. Honestly I never clicked with an Elixir and cant barely fly the thing. The other kite that I think is far before its time was the Tika from skyburner. It can do everything I can. 1 pop roll ups aren't a thing but 2 pops work well. The rest it hands out easily.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: tpatter on August 17, 2013, 03:41 PM
On the Elixir, some of the smoothest trick flying I've ever seen was John Weldon flyng his Lix, low and slow at kite hill.  JLs, backspins, yoyos, flick flacks, flat spins all just 1-2 feet off the ground.  It doesn't have yoyo stoppers, but you can still fly it around a but before unrolling.

My son Eli can also comete on it.

The sail is much flatter than most kites of today, not to mention the curved LEs, so it has a much different feel than more modern kites now have. 

My opinion is that, while it is capable, you will have to learn how it likes to do things.  With most modern polyvalent kites, you can move from one to the other and most things work fine, the difference being in that the more popular ones have a strength or 2 (or 3) that others don't have. 

Good luck.



Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: inventorz on August 17, 2013, 03:48 PM
"The Elixir dances (not with) above the rest of them."

Wow, I am a new flyer (just learned backspins, yo-yos, clic-flacs, etc in last couple months).  I have a Prism Hypnotist and am starting to anticipate my next std kite.  My hypnotist came with the Prism DVD and I was captivated at how great and able the Elixir looked in the footage. 

I wonder if the Elixir, being allot more affordable than modern stunt kites, would be a suitable choice for my next step into freestyle flying.

Share your thoughts please.  Thank you!

Zach Zimmerman


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: inventorz on August 17, 2013, 03:50 PM
Thoughts on the Alien????  I want a high wind kite too, and dont know if I should go Vented?  Or Alien?

Thoughts welcome, thank you.

ZZ


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Steven L Hall on August 17, 2013, 05:53 PM
Find yourself a standard Eclipse with a turbo bridle. You won't be disappointed.
I have seen the Elixir do amazing things ... just not on the ends of my lines.
YMMV


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: KaoS on August 17, 2013, 06:08 PM

My opinion is that, while it is capable, you will have to learn how it likes to do things. 


I completely agree!  I have owned my Elixir since 1999, I won't sell it.  But on the days I decide to fly it, I find it best to only fly that kite.  If I start with another one then switch to the Elixir, it takes a while to dial myself in to it.  Similarly the other way round.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: temoniprince on August 18, 2013, 09:22 AM
Elixir  is the best kite ever made hands down.......


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: inventorz on August 18, 2013, 10:29 AM
"Elixir  is the best kite ever made hands down......."  Wow!

I am getting the feeling from everyone that the Elixir is going to be my next standard kite ;)



Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: JimB on August 18, 2013, 12:36 PM
The sticks are hard to get these days and are pretty easy to break.

I'd suggest re-thinking the Elixir unless you have a plan to deal with the inevitable breakages you will have to contend with.

Please note that people are suggesting a '98 (or later) Eclipse rather than an Elixir in the majority of the above posts.

The Eclipse uses pultruded sticks. Cheaper. Easier to find. However it is not as durable as a modern stunt kite either. It is particularly vulnerable to sail damage when nose planted.

And.

While it is a remarkably capable kite in experienced hands, it is not anywhere near as capable as more modern stunt kites. That includes just about anything, at any level - beginner/intermediate/expert - designed in the last few years or even nearly Ten years.

I'd suggest something else really.. like a used Blue Moon Exile, just as an example.. lots of other choices.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Steven L Hall on August 18, 2013, 01:21 PM
Quote
I'd suggest something else really.. like a used Blue Moon Exile, just as an example.. lots of other choices.
leave it to Jim to be 'the voice of reason'
that there was some mighty good advice!  ;D


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Ca Ike on August 19, 2013, 09:21 AM
Don't bank on an elixir.  They are not made anymore and don't come up for sale used to often.  ITs a great kite and I love mine but you would be better off getting something currently in production for your next kite. However, if you do get one used you will be disappointed until you get a feel for it but once you get a feel for it you will see why most of us like them.

As for what it can't do is any yo-fade tricks(front flip yoyo), cynique.  Pretty much everything else is there but not for the taking, its a kite you have to know how to fly.

anthony


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: zippy8 on August 19, 2013, 11:43 AM
Elixir  is the best kite ever made hands down.......
If this were true*, doesn't it beg the questions:-

  • why is it no longer made ?
  • why anyone bothered to make any other kite since ?

The 'Lixir was an excellent kite of its time. Along with the original version of the Benson Gemini it defined the second and final wave of Trick kites that were superceded in our affections by polyvalent or all-rounder kites.

Putting aside questions of what an older can be made to do, an issue that will raise its ugly head frequently when trying to match modern kites is that of build details. Older kites generally paid little-to-no attention to considerations of having the flying lines draped all over the kite. They are going to get snagged and ruin your day.

Mike,
* it's almost certainly not true.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: inventorz on August 19, 2013, 12:23 PM
After taking all of your opinions into consideration.  I am going to keep my eye out for bargain all around trick kite in the swap meet.  Maybe an HQ infinity.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Allen Carter on August 19, 2013, 12:31 PM

In addition it's beautiful, even on an overcast day...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PuF9IZB_134/S11lKdntZYI/AAAAAAABGCQ/sru5-kZ8pMM/s800/36584%2520Elixir%2520Group%2520Shoot.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2008Kites#5430607956102964610)

Hey, that's my Teal and Grey 'lix! Never should have sold that.

So, a lots already been said about the Elixir. I'll add my perspective. It's hard to fly well.

Those who put in a large amount of time, and had the skills, could do wonderful things with them. For someone like me it's more a kite to take out and goof around with from time to time. I've had two over the years and not kept 'em.

Like a lot of '90s high aspect ratio kite, it also doesn't "fly" well. As in straight lines and controlled turns and such. It's better than previous designs in that area, but nothing like full size modern kites.


As for the Alien, well, it's a really odd kite. It can handle pretty high wind, and can be fun to goof around with, but is really not good at much. Hard to do things with.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Hadge on August 19, 2013, 12:41 PM
After taking all of your opinions into consideration.  I am going to keep my eye out for bargain all around trick kite in the swap meet.  Maybe an HQ infinity.

As a man who has owned both, I would have to say that while the Infinity is nice, the Flying Wings Soul is better......I still own my Soul....the Infinity moved on... ;)


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Wayner on August 19, 2013, 06:43 PM

As a man who has owned both, I would have to say that while the Infinity is nice, the Flying Wings Soul is better......I still own my Soul....the Infinity moved on... ;)

Like Hadge, I own both, but my experience is different. The Infinity is a better fit for my style and my favorite full size standard.  Planning on buying the vented in the future.  Still have not clicked with my Soul. Hope more flying time will solve that.

No experience with the Hypnotist but I sure other members will jump in. 



Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Ca Ike on August 19, 2013, 06:58 PM
Elixir  is the best kite ever made hands down.......
If this were true*, doesn't it beg the questions:-

  • why is it no longer made ?
  • why anyone bothered to make any other kite since ?

The 'Lixir was an excellent kite of its time. Along with the original version of the Benson Gemini it defined the second and final wave of Trick kites that were superceded in our affections by polyvalent or all-rounder kites.

Putting aside questions of what an older can be made to do, an issue that will raise its ugly head frequently when trying to match modern kites is that of build details. Older kites generally paid little-to-no attention to considerations of having the flying lines draped all over the kite. They are going to get snagged and ruin your day.

Mike,
* it's almost certainly not true.
Oddly enough I agree with Mike here.  Mark had his reasons for dropping the lix and updating the eclipse instead and we won't know the full reason.  I do know from a few people close to mark when he was designing it one of the goals was easy backspins and really the kite excels at flat turntable type backspins.  I can get my lix to do a lot but its no deepspace, widow maker, solus, black pearl, tnt, Etc.  Many newer kites can out strip it in the sheer amount of tricks they can do and the ease of which they do them but to learn to get the newer tricks out of an older kite can be gratifying.  I was getting backspins, JL's and a few other more modern trick out of an old late 80's mystic(elliot shook i think) and it was fun figuring out how.  You also start to realize how good the flyers were when these tricks were just starting to be invented because the kites back then wern't really designed for tricking.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Ca Ike on August 19, 2013, 07:02 PM
Are the Flying Wings Soul and the HQ infinity a large step up from my Prism Hypnotist??  I dont have allot to spend, but want something that provide a higher level of flying than the Hypnotist?
They are both good kites.  Tell us where you are from and maybe there is someone close you can meet with and "Borrow" the line to try some out.


Title: Re: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: DD on August 19, 2013, 07:32 PM
Vintage vs. Vintage; the Gemini (plus it is still made) is a far better kite then the elixir.
The elixir will trick but it takes a different touch but then again this is also true of the stranger level 7.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: temoniprince on August 19, 2013, 09:20 PM
that is very true zippster!
    Its like anything else in this world, Everything evolves and "gets better" If i say its the best there will be 500 people will tell me its a ugly and bad kite.  If i like classic Prism kites  some say they a bad, and they love Rsky.  Its not made anymore just like why are other kites no made? vendetta? tricktail? or why Rsky bags are not made or anything else.   

       I like pineapple, HOw about you?

sammy


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Hadge on August 20, 2013, 12:26 AM
Are the Flying Wings Soul and the HQ infinity a large step up from my Prism Hypnotist??  I dont have allot to spend, but want something that provide a higher level of flying than the Hypnotist?

Both would be a big step up from your Hypnotist - not that the Hypnotist is in any way a bad kite - but both of these would be easier, more responsive, more stable and more trickable. Both are similar in size and speed, both are well made, both made to do both tricks and ( to a point) precision - great all rounders.  Like many things it's down to personal preference - some folks like one make of car some another - I don't think you'd be disappointed with either. For me I found the Soul a bit smoother, and easier to do tricks with but a lot of it is if you 'click' with a particular kite or not.  If you get the chance to 'try before you buy' I'd recommend you take it.



Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: inventorz on August 20, 2013, 04:03 AM
Ca Ike,

I am in Crystal River FL (about an hour north of Tampa Fl.

That would be AMAZING if I could "try before I buy"

Let me know if anyone out there is flying in Central FL!

Thank you!


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Wayner on August 20, 2013, 12:03 PM
to learn to get the newer tricks out of an older kite can be gratifying.  

So true.   Always a pure joy.   ;D


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: bojocatkite on November 19, 2013, 04:27 PM
I will ad my 2 cents on the Elixir: I Love this Kite, it's really nice looking, it flies great, I love it's style and the feeling it gives. It is capable of a lot of modern tricks and you can have hours and hours of fun with it. That said you can't compare it to the newer designs from R-Sky or Sky-Burner.

In my point of view, the major difference is you have WAY more control over what you are doing with the newer designs. It's particularly true for the R-Sky kites, you can do every modern tricks much more easily and always with a lot of control, this feeling of always having control over the kite is phenomenal.

The Elixir is like those American sport cars from the 60's, you can not compare their performance to modern sport cars like a Subaru Impreza, but the feeling you have driving them is unique.

Smooth Winds...



Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: harveystubbs on November 19, 2013, 04:55 PM
If you want to learn new tricks buy a modern kite and don't fool yourself by continually reading this thread repeatedly.

That said every flyer owns an old kite they get misty eyed about.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: John Welden on November 19, 2013, 08:30 PM
The Elixir is like those American sport cars from the 60's, you can not compare their performance to modern sport cars like a Subaru Impreza, but the feeling you have driving them is unique.

Smooth Winds...



Well said.

The only reason I fly or ever flew the Elixir is because I really love the way it looks flying and tricking. That's it, no other reason. I haven't found another kite that allows me to be as smooth as I can be with the Elixir. For whatever reason it does some really lovely and slow pitching, flat spinning and back spinning type tricks.

If your goal is to do all the insane tricks they're doing now days, you're much better off with a modern kite. The Elixir probably can do most anything, but it's way too hard compared to modern kites.  Plus it really sucks at straight lines and corners. 

I have a goal to make another Elixir video and to get my best flying on tape.  I think people would appreciate seeing some old skool low n slow.  :D


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Steven L Hall on November 19, 2013, 09:28 PM
I hated the kite ... that said some of the sweetest flying I have ever seen was John Welden putting his Elixir through its paces.

(In case I need to present my bona fides I have flown with Mayet, Wardley and Graziano)


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: lylenc on November 19, 2013, 09:41 PM
low, slow, and smooth if the new video is comparable to JW's other ones


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Ca Ike on November 19, 2013, 09:54 PM
I've been revisiting the Lix lately and stumbled on its hidden tracking prowess.  A few standoff tweaks and its a totally different flying experience. I do think there is a set up in here Mark may not have realized was there seeing as how most of the tricks were still coming out when the Lix was designed.

JW  I'd love too see you flying a lix again.  THe clips in the prism vids just don't do your skills with the lix justice :)


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: John Welden on November 20, 2013, 06:15 AM
I hated the kite ... that said some of the sweetest flying I have ever seen was John Welden putting his Elixir through its paces.

(In case I need to present my bona fides I have flown with Mayet, Wardley and Graziano)

Thanks Steve, that helps motivate me to do it.

I'll make you a deal. You make a sweet TT UL vid and I'll do an Elixir vid.  :D Old school revival.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Steven L Hall on November 20, 2013, 06:54 PM
do it John, sounds like a video I would actually watch but don't wait for me as I am no longer able to fly.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: John Welden on November 21, 2013, 05:58 AM
do it John, sounds like a video I would actually watch but don't wait for me as I am no longer able to fly.

Sorry Steve, I didn't know that.  :(


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: KeithG on November 24, 2013, 07:28 PM
John W you were a master at flying then Elixir, so smooth, beautiful flying on the low and slow video you did. You should do another without a doubt, at least all us "older" kite flyers would love to see some good "old school" flying again. The advice you and Jim B gave I have to agree with. In its day the Elixir and the Gemini were the kings of trick flying and with a few mods can still keep pace with some of the newer kites but it is a lot easier to do the "new school" trick with a modern day kite designed to excel at those type tricks.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Gardner on November 24, 2013, 09:29 PM
I will never forget a hot tricks shootout I saw at the 2003 Washington State International Kite festival.  It was the finals and the flyers were J. Weldon (Elixir)and J. Gillespie(Mamba). JW took the first round in a 2of3 flyoff while JG took the second.  J. W. took the third and the title.  Both of those guys put on a fantastic exhibition of trick flying skills.


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: John Welden on November 25, 2013, 06:00 PM
Thanks guys.

Don't inflate my ego TOO much.  :D ;D


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: justinpwheeler on November 27, 2013, 03:27 AM
Ca Ike,

I am in Crystal River FL (about an hour north of Tampa Fl.

That would be AMAZING if I could "try before I buy"

Let me know if anyone out there is flying in Central FL!

Thank you!

I'm just down the road from you in Brandon.  Sent you a PM


Title: Re: Is the Prism Elixir outdated? Or does it still Dance with the Best of them??
Post by: Fast EDDY on January 04, 2014, 10:40 AM

As for what it can't do is any yo-fade tricks(front flip yoyo), cynique.  Pretty much everything else is there but not for the taking, its a kite you have to know how to fly.

anthony

  If you Got one!~!~! You could easily put P200 lower leading edges in it. A 15Gr tail weight in it. and it will them flip thru the lines Forward. AFTER you put a set of clip on YoJo catcher on it... I also lowered the tow point 3/8 inch 1/4 (ish).

  Mine does... Its Fun but it takes Work.

  Either way!!!!!! It is a great slow kite.... You will cherish it for a long time. Never part with it... And probably wear it out flying it... Then learn that Modern kites fly different than it does!~!~!  :P