GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: rob103 on September 20, 2013, 06:30 AM



Title: monster delta
Post by: rob103 on September 20, 2013, 06:30 AM
Hi folks!
I skould be receiving a 26 foot delta by Greens Kites today and need a line weight recommendation.
thanks
Bill


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on September 20, 2013, 06:46 AM
1200-1500#
hope you are not planning on flying it too high!


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: rob103 on September 20, 2013, 07:32 AM
Ouch! And here I was thinking my 300# dacron would do


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on September 20, 2013, 08:21 AM
yeah....a flyer in Newport used to fly his sun oak dcs with lots of line laundry on 500# and those are only 14'....
Plus you want to have some thickness to that line so that you can handle it well (albeit by hand or by mechanical bits).....


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Wayner on September 20, 2013, 09:10 AM
Ouch! And here I was thinking my 300# dacron would do

Not even close.  ::)   I fly my 19ft delta on 500lb line in lighter to med winds.

Good new is you can and SHOULD  use shorter line length. 200 - 300 feet.
  - Allows you to get the kite down quickly. Problems can happen QUICK with large kites.   
  - Your big kite looks small when you put it up high on longer lines.  :-[

You need to consider some type of anchoring system as well.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on September 20, 2013, 09:38 AM
Good new is you can and SHOULD  use shorter line length. 200 - 300 feet.


this probably fits the FAA regulation of a 5# object in the air needs to provide local Towers notice/ask for permission for flight......

some reading here about anchors: http://www.gombergkites.com/faq.html (http://www.gombergkites.com/faq.html)


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: tcope on September 20, 2013, 02:53 PM
I've not flown any larger deltas but I really don't think you'd need more then 750lbs. I've flown kites that you can't pull the line on and it takes 2 people's weight to walk down and I fly them on 1800lbs line. I've flown a 36 premier sled in 30mph winds on 500lbs line and it was pulling like a Mac truck. A delta is going to fly at a higher angle in stronger winds. Higher winds = more pull but higher flight angle is going to decrease pull.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on September 20, 2013, 03:14 PM

Thinner line equals harder to handle (higher tension)......harder to handle can equal mishaps and accidents....and can also equal a broken line with a 14#(or dare I say heavier) big kite at the top going downwind across things.....
I always strongly suggest heavier line to be certain that the kite will stay connected and managed.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: coogee on September 20, 2013, 05:25 PM
I agree with thief that the issue is ease of handling. I fly to altitude with a very big DT Delta and we use very light line but you would have NO chance of bringing the kite down without a winch. Show kite flying use a line that is thick enough to handle even when the wind is high. Fly it low enough to get a good look at the kite. Line drag or weight will not worry you at low altitude. Making sure it is easier to handle will also make it safer.

Mike


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: goestoeleven on September 20, 2013, 07:42 PM
I also have a 19 ft delta, and I think the total sail area is close to 100 sq feet.  I usually use 500 lb line on it even though at least one site I know of recommends 300 lb line.  While it flies at a higher angle than a sled or other lifters, it still pulls pretty hard when the wind is up.  I have used a 1 inch diameter tent stake as the primary anchor, with a backup second stake, just in case.  I've also used sand anchors on the beach (again, primary & backup).  I just do not want to experience what it's like to have a big kite (with big heavy duty spars) break free on a crowded beach or field, so I try to be a bit careful with it.  You must have a good solid anchor before you try to launch your big kite.  If you use tent stakes, then you need straps to tie off to because you can't have the line rubbing against the rough metal - it will cut the line after a few hours of flying.  That (luckily) didn't happen to me to the point of failure, but I did notice pretty bad abrasion one time with a smaller kite that I tied off to the stake for a bit when I was out of other anchors. 

I'm guessing your 26 ft delta is probably more like 150+ sq feet of sail, so you probably should plan accordingly when you get your line and anchors.

Oh, and if you are getting carabiners to clip to the straps, use real ones, not the ones you can get at the W mart place or the hardware store.

By the way, haven't flown them in a while, but if I recall, I think my 13ft Sun Oaks DCs pull way less than the 19 ft delta, since someone above said 500 lb for a similar size Sun Oaks.

Oh yeah, and in addition to the above FAA notes, there's more than one article on safety at the link listed above.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Ca Ike on September 20, 2013, 09:38 PM
Good stakes are a must as well as line.  For most big kites I use these  http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=349250-258-071514000367&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3587910&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1. (http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=349250-258-071514000367&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3587910&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1.)  They hold good and don't abrade the line if you loop it through the hole and over the ears.  For bigger kites (or hard pulling kites) i use 3-4 of them staked at opposing 30 degree angles through a ring so that the ring tries to pull all the stakes vertical into each other.  THey work well.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: rob103 on September 20, 2013, 10:52 PM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-faBSDxmmSiY/Uj0ygtB8_-I/AAAAAAAAACc/1_urdPGhocY/w440-h150-p/monster+delta.jpg)


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Wayner on September 21, 2013, 12:14 AM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-faBSDxmmSiY/Uj0ygtB8_-I/AAAAAAAAACc/1_urdPGhocY/w440-h150-p/monster+delta.jpg)

Oh yea,  That's what I call a large kite  8)

Love to see that in the air.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: alien on September 21, 2013, 02:03 AM
 :o     ;D       8)


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: rob103 on September 21, 2013, 07:16 AM
Does anybody know of a source other than Gomberg for heavy kite cord? I checked all the major ones and they all stop at about 500#   1000 pound 22 strand paracord would work but I cant find it either.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on September 21, 2013, 08:29 AM
Is there something you do not like about what gombie offers? His company is THE place for big kites and everything needed.....he probably even imported that delta in the first place.....
Do not skimp  on money around this beast....it can hurt you. Get top quality gear and be safe.....


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Wayner on September 21, 2013, 09:26 AM
Does anybody know of a source other than Gomberg for heavy kite cord? I checked all the major ones and they all stop at about 500#   1000 pound 22 strand paracord would work but I cant find it either.

I know "A wind of Change" and one of the sponsors of the forum has heavy line. Worth an email or call, if it is not listed on the web site.  This is where I bought mine.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: rob103 on September 21, 2013, 12:17 PM
nope nothing wrong with Gomberg's products or prices, in fact I have 300 feet of line, a strap/carabiner/and pulley picked out, just thought a little price comparison would be in order and found absolutely nothing to compare!


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Ca Ike on September 21, 2013, 01:43 PM
Don't just rely on the web sites.  OFten times shops carry or can get a lot more than what is on thier pages.  I know Kent, Jon and the other sponsors can get just about anything you want and ITW usually stocks big kite line.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Wayner on September 21, 2013, 03:08 PM
nope nothing wrong with Gomberg's products or prices, in fact I have 300 feet of line, a strap/carabiner/and pulley picked out, just thought a little price comparison would be in order and found absolutely nothing to compare!

You need to get your line and anchor picked up quick so we can see some pictures of your beast in the air.  ;D


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: mikenchico on September 25, 2013, 01:19 PM
You neglect to show where you are located. For heavy weight line I've gone to a marine supply store. They carry the same line that you'll find for sale in kite stores at about 1/3 the cost. The catch is at the marine supply store the roll will not be guaranteed to be a continuous length where it will be at the kite store. I bought a 1000 foot roll of 980 lb test line for around $30, it was two pieces, but since I seldom fly a kite over 200 feet I got 3 more then acceptable lengths of line from the roll.

In my case I go to Englund Marine who has shops located along the northwest coast from Eureka, Ca to Westport, Wa - sadly they no longer have an online catalog.

Antenna shops also carry DacRope™ used for antenna supports, it's a very nice round solid core braided Polyester line although it's more expensive then the hollow core flatter stuff carried by marine shops and kite stores.

Oh and once your big delta is in the air you might wonder why you needed 1500 lb line since the kite only seems to have around 100-150 lbs pull once up. Deltas ride on the wind, not against it, it's the launch or if the kite should loop or dive while flying. During those times you are presenting the full face of the kite to the wind and at 300+ square feet of sail that's a lot of air.


Title: Re: Re: monster delta
Post by: tcope on September 25, 2013, 02:29 PM
You can't go wrong with higher test line. I still say that 750lbs is fine. From Goldberg I think that is 4 or 5mm thick. With thicker line you are probably doubling the weight and drag. I've flown a 240 flow form on 1200 line in 20mph. It's not ideal but it gives an idea of what the line can take. I fly my 525 flow form on 1800lbs. All those lines are around 5mm. Gloves are a must and a pully is smart.

You want to be careful with line. Many manufactures cheat on the test. As I recall, a test of Gombergs 500lbs is around 300lbs while other 500lbs was around 150 and 200lbs.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on September 25, 2013, 04:09 PM
paracord is supposed to be 550#...the other name for it is 550 cord...
but there is different test of it...check out the chart in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_cord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_cord)


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Texanpilot on October 21, 2013, 08:57 PM
Mountain climbing rope???


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: tcope on October 22, 2013, 05:23 AM
Mountain climbing rope???

Really too heavy for a delta. Plus it's much more expensive as they have the liability cost built in (the possibility of being sued because someone died using it).


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: Tmadz on October 22, 2013, 09:40 AM
You don't want to use paracord. Different beast altogether. If it's 550# cord the inner strands (s/b 7-9) are not woven together and they are only surrounded by the woven outer sleeve. Plus it's just extra weight for what you want to do. If you must, you can get the mil spec from several websites. Just Google it.

Go for the big stuff from Gomberg or ITW. Follow the heavy duty anchoring on Gombergs website. You are going to need a pulley or something because at 26', unless you're in laboratory grade winds, that thing is going move all over when you put her up and take her down.

Getting the right cord, even if it's more expensive than you hoped, is the best route. Safety first. I've learned the hard way with sleds, flow forms and large delta's. Almost darn near took my head off and I was prepared for it too!


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: ezme6 on October 22, 2013, 05:21 PM
what is that monster delta framed in? Im going to frame a 21 ft one soon.


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on October 22, 2013, 05:34 PM
SLE rods would work...if you want to pay that!!!!!!


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: ezme6 on October 23, 2013, 08:15 AM
yea I've been dreaming of SLE rods, but I don't want to pay that !
alternatives????


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: rob103 on October 23, 2013, 08:52 AM
Wouldja believe wooden dowels...broomsticks almost!


Title: Re: monster delta
Post by: thief on October 23, 2013, 09:01 AM
you might want to check out these threads on kitebuilder:
http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 (http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7306&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= (http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7306&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)
and the best one is Kitesquid's Navy funded 20'+ dunton taylor thread: http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10761 (http://www.kitebuilder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10761) (best because he was funded by the navy to build a big a$$ kite)