GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: True Rookie on January 11, 2014, 08:41 PM



Title: Gliders
Post by: True Rookie on January 11, 2014, 08:41 PM
   So with this weather were having it has made me start looking for a glider kite. I have checked out a few videos and love how relaxing it is to watch them fly.

   I really like how slow the Feather Glider fly's but there is no color on the sail. I was wondering if you could use different colored highlighters to put some color on it or would that damage the sail?

   I seen a video posted somewhere of a guy that was flying a glider inside and someone commented that the kite made it to the third level. If you know of a video like this could you please direct me towards it.

   What are some of your favorite gliders and why?

                                                            Thank you


Title: Re: Re: Gliders
Post by: DD on January 11, 2014, 08:57 PM
Prism Zero g and will's sturdys chiropetra (which is probably spelled wrong). They both float and glide in zero or no wind but both will fly in just a slight wind.  Both take a different light touch then say a dual line


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Ca Ike on January 11, 2014, 11:01 PM
I would have to say the  ITW Skate, zeroG and horvath hybrid are my top 3.  Wala XL and ITW Hydra if you want to go big.  Indoor only I would go for the I elite or skate.


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: cerfvoliste on January 11, 2014, 11:06 PM
    If you know of a video like this could you please direct me towards it.
 


http://s246.photobucket.com/user/rxburner/media/2passWindless_Movie1_Full.mp4.html#/user/rxburner/media/2passWindless_Movie1_Full.mp4.html?&_suid=138951041290609628514164063898 (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/rxburner/media/2passWindless_Movie1_Full.mp4.html#/user/rxburner/media/2passWindless_Movie1_Full.mp4.html?&_suid=138951041290609628514164063898)

Enjoy!
@


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Danceswithwinds on January 12, 2014, 09:26 AM
Have to be  either an  Emong indoor and out, in light breeze, or one of Karl Longbottoms creations ,A Petrodactyl, again indoor / out  almost damage proof( I have seen one flown straight onto the floor at speed,nil damage) or his new 7-81.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHipWymQCSE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHipWymQCSE)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 12, 2014, 03:44 PM
hi truerookie
Feathers do come in colored version..... Clear skin is very lightly painted in reds or blues (fire or ice).... And both sides of the feather come in this option....(BTW fire and ices in both sizes arriving in the states soon)

You have a few choices..... They range from cheap (making your own Borelli glider) up to the zen gliders that range a couple of hundred bucks for less than an ounce..... And of course bigger kites like a Morpho Grande in painted cuben fiber for 5000$.....

The are lots of flat kites delta shaped like the iFlite, the chiroptera, horvath's kites.... and three  dimensional kites like the plutz gliders from Ceewan's and Karl Longbottom's pterodactyls...
So you have lots of options...
Some kites glide better... and some climb better and are more active flyers..... Your preference is important....


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Allen Carter on January 12, 2014, 04:15 PM
I really like my iFlites (I&II) indoors. Very easy to fly indoors. The small ones are good for tight spaces. The larger one needs more room to turn, but glides forever. Both a very good value.



Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: True Rookie on January 12, 2014, 07:25 PM
 It wont let me post


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: True Rookie on January 12, 2014, 07:27 PM
well it did that time not sure why


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 13, 2014, 03:59 AM
It wont let me post


did you provide your daily sacrifice of burning a chinese copy of a revolution?   that might have caused the hiccup ;)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: glider on January 13, 2014, 05:32 PM
Horvath videos.  Too bad there's such lousy scenery :)
http://www.horvath.ch/en/movies-kites.html (http://www.horvath.ch/en/movies-kites.html)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: True Rookie on January 13, 2014, 08:54 PM
 That's funny Thief.  i see it let me post today

Thank you all for the links to the videos. Thief do you know who will sell the colored Feathers? You can PM me the info.

  Right now I'm leaning towards the Skate or a Horvath plus a i-flight or a feather. I'm guessing  I should have at least two indoor gliders....Right....LOL

  What I am looking for is a long gliding kite that has the potential to slowly climb higher and higher then watch it as it gracefully floats towards the ground.

  Once again I thank you for the help,
                                                   Mike


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: fidelio on January 13, 2014, 11:49 PM
Having flown all the kites mentioned this thread, save the longbottom, morpho, and feather, my two cents would be thus;

Without spending an arm and a leg, the chiroptera for flight characteristics can't be beat. Best in 0-2mph, 3 and up it buffets and doesn't climb well. Launching and relaunching takes a bit of practice given the shape. Under 3, in the right conditions, and weighted correctly (mine has 30 cents in the nose), you could glide 150' from one side of the window to the other no problem on a 75' line. Is quite amazing. Glide ratio better than any I've seen.

If you have extra arms and legs, the long way home by horvath.ch is equal to the chiroptera in impressiveness, but with different characteristics. Is much larger, much more expensive, can rotate more quickly, can handle more wind, can be flown as a single liner when no others will stay airborn, looks incredible in the sky, can realistically tow more line for higher flights, but trades a bit of glide ratio (a miniscule amount, but just enough to notice). Unparalleled construction quality.

In my opinion, there's a substantial performance gap between these kites and the rest.

Iflight is great for places you can't normally fly a kite. Well worth having.

If you could find one, a focus manta is a great huge kite but likes to fly in straight lines, takes much more line feeding, and drops more quickly, but is a sight to behold as it slowly glides by. With altitude, capable of huge glides. As far as i know, the ITW version doesn't have the brass weight the focus version comes with, but nor do i know it's as critical as on the focus version either.



Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: fidelio on January 14, 2014, 12:18 AM
a quick note on flying gliders:

good gliders can be manhandled all day long, and in some designs, require it. you fly it the whole time. if you're not manipulating the line (even if it's just tension), it's stops flying.

great gliders, are easy to overpower with your inputs and make them feel no better than a good glider. great gliders however, will reward the pilot substantially once you've established a feel for the kite and its body language. it's a subtle conversation where (figuratively speaking) a wink or a slight nod is enough to convey intent. the kites will react to incredibly minute inputs. it's much more of a two-way experience, where the kite tells you quietly but precisely what it feels from the wind, and you provide it with a suggestion of motion, rather than a mandate. it's a cooperative experience, and a very rewarding one as you can feel as if you're talking to the wind directly, with the kite as an interpreter. touch the line like you would touch a woman after midnight, and it will open up to you similarly.


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: chilese on January 14, 2014, 01:53 AM
Such the poet.  :)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Mugen on January 14, 2014, 03:10 AM
This is my glider, her name is Leni:
Leni glider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvDdq-ya3MM#)

Some pics here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.292060797603032.1073741830.207235686085544&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.292060797603032.1073741830.207235686085544&type=3)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: fidelio on January 14, 2014, 09:52 AM
Such the poet.  :)
haha thanks john

for the curious, here's a chiroptera video john took of my kite a while back. starting around half a minute in you can see the kite easily float for more than 30 seconds in a single glide. it's a really fantastic kite.

https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/Movies#5767538859354454930


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 14, 2014, 10:14 AM
you cannot beat a Chiroptera....i am biased but it is a great kite.....i am not certain where you get them now though - may be just direct from Will?



not me....but another good video
Chiroptera kite by will sturdy, flying indoors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1_itWc_80c#)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Doug S on January 15, 2014, 10:15 AM
If you purchase or build a glider, you need to decide where you want to fly the glider to determine the appropriate size and sail loading.

As a point of reference, I find that for indoor and very light wind in my front yard (60 feet by 60 feet), wing spans no greater than 24 inches work the best for me.  These glider kites should have the lowest sail loading.  If you are going to fly in open fields or you want to cover ground, you can go big.  For my town’s local sports field complex, I like gliders with wing spans ranging from 4 to 8 feet.  The canards tend to have a slightly higher sail loading then the single sail gliders, but are a blast to fly.

To show you some size variety, I have designed and constructed gliders that range from 12 inches to 8 feet in wing span, with 48 to 1,414 square inches in sail area, with weights ranging from 1.0 to 101.5 grams, with sail loadings ranging from 0.087 to 0.401 ounces/square feet of sail area.  For gliders up to 24 inches in wing span, I use Cuben for the sail material.  Greater than 24 inches, I use PC31.

Several of this website’s sponsors carry gliders or building materials if you wish to purchase or make your own glider.

Gliders are like potato chips, you just can't have one, so jump into the pool with the rest of us have and some fun.

Enjoy,

Doug


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Allen Carter on January 15, 2014, 11:23 AM
Here's a little indoor glider I'd like to have.   :)

Indoor Glider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7XQMF5gHTs#ws)


It's flown on a loop and is bi-directional. Seems HUGE when you first try it.


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 15, 2014, 11:36 AM
Allen that is a Mar(c) Ricketts Guildworks Truss.....you can get one still....you do have to tether Mar(c) to a desk though to do so....
google tetrafoil

(http://www.guildworks.com/uploads/5/6/8/0/5680040/_____3170668_orig.jpg)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: tonycarl60 on January 15, 2014, 11:09 PM
Horvath hybrid 200 or 230 and I fly with a wand. I only fly outdoors :)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Doug S on January 16, 2014, 10:27 AM
If you want to start off small, contact Thief.  He has a variety of gliders to choose from.  Once you get the feel of flying a glider, you then can decide what style glider best fits your flying pleasure.  Flying a glider is extremely relaxing on the mind and a great distraction from everyday life. ;D

Later,

Doug


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Makalu1 on January 16, 2014, 12:09 PM
Thief's video of the Chiroptera ("Bat") shows Stephen Burkey flying indoors.  I'd call the Chiroptera a true indoor or windless kite- it does not like air movement around it.  The air vents in this gym were enough to mess with the kite performance.  I only fly mine when it's dead calm.  The Emong doesn't mind a little bit of breeze but doesn't have near the glide of the Chiroptera if all things are equal.  I'd also call the Zero G the poor mans Mega Plutz (Ceewan), the Plutz being lighter and floatier.  The iFlite is also tough to beat for a kite that you can take and fly virtually anywhere.  I love them all, though.  A kite for every condition... 


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 16, 2014, 12:26 PM
Thief's video of the Chiroptera ("Bat") shows Stephen Burkey flying indoors.  I'd call the Chiroptera a true indoor or windless kite- it does not like air movement around it.  The air vents in this gym were enough to mess with the kite performance.  I only fly mine when it's dead calm.  The Emong doesn't mind a little bit of breeze but doesn't have near the glide of the Chiroptera if all things are equal.  I'd also call the Zero G the poor mans Mega Plutz (Ceewan), the Plutz being lighter and floatier.  The iFlite is also tough to beat for a kite that you can take and fly virtually anywhere.  I love them all, though.  A kite for every condition... 

i agree that the Chiro does not list sideway gusts indoors....but a great feature of this one is that if you are outside and the wind picks up a bit the wings bend back and form a deep keel that keeps the chiro flying stable!
The emong i found to dive too much to my liking....
i also suggest a Skate.....glides very well...and can fly outside with a bit of fun too.....


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Doug S on January 16, 2014, 02:17 PM
It depends on the type of gliding you want to.  Gliders with very low dihedral (bend between each side of the wing) and low weight at the wing tips will be very responsive to slight changes in air currents, which is a very good thing.  This also allows them to be responsive to light changes in pressure on the flying line.  Will's glider, Horvath's gliders, the light small gliders that Thief has, and my gliders use low dihedrals.  I like the dihedral to be between 16 and 20 percent in total between each side of the wing.  Too little dihedral and the glider may not bank in a turn and may stall more abruptly at the tips.  My Hawks (12, 16, 20 and 24 in. wing spans), my Falcon (64.5 in. wing span) and my Eagle (96 in. wing span) will circle in very light lift like a bird.  The circle will be proportional to the wing span of the glider.  Canards tend to be more stable, even if the main sail (large rear sail) has a low dihedral.  With Will’s kite, you can add more dihedral by shortening the line from the center spine to the spreader.  Just open up the loop and add more wraps around the spreader.  Try one additional loop at a time and see if you like the performance.

Gliders with greater dihedral (greater angle between each side of the wing) will be very stable, but not easy to turn with light pressure on the flying line.  Also, gliders that are more rugged with more weight near the tips also will be reluctant to turn.  When this type of glider encounters changes in air currents, it responds by rocking the wings, and then continues in the same direction in a normal glide.

So, if you want to fly in a straight line, look for a glider with more dihedral.  If you want to have it responsive to your line commands and slight changes in the air currents, then look for a glider with less dihedral.  Another way to put this is if you are flying in turbulent air, add more dihedral to provide more stability.  If you are flying is smooth air, reduce the dihedral so that the glider is more reactive to your line commands.

Also, sail loading has a lot to do with glider performance.  If you want a response glider and longer glides, the lighter the sail loading the better.  Gliders with higher sail loadings will fly faster, stall at higher flying speeds, and tend to tip stall.  The stalls will be more abrupt and will require more altitude to recover.  For the same glider at different total weights, the glide slope will be the same, except the heaver version will glide faster down the slope.  For example, the proof of concept version of my Bird of Prey glider kite with a wing span of 24 inches was made from PC31 and 0.04 carbon rods and weighs 5.7 grams, which equates to a sail loading of 0.223 oz./sq.ft.  The light version of my Bird of Prey glider kite with the same wing span was made from Cuben Fabric with 0.03 carbon rods and weighs only 3.0 grams, which equates to a sail loading of 0.117 oz./sq.ft.  That’s a 47 percent reduction in sail loading for the same size sail.  The lighter version of my Bird of Prey is a very agile floater, while the heaver version is a hunter.  Also, the sail loading needs to be lighter for the smaller gliders (less than 24 inch wing span) as compared to the larger gliders (48 to greater than 96 in. wing spans).  This is due to the contact time of each air molecule across the average chord of sail (leading edge to trailing edge), which measurement is call the Reynolds Number.  So you can get away with a higher sail loading with a larger glider wing span, but need to be as light as possible for the smaller glider kites.

As previously posted, you need to determine what type of flying you want to do then select the type of glider that fits your needs.  If you already have a light glider, you can adjust the center of gravity and dihedral to dial in the type of flying you want to do.  Don’t be afraid to tinker with these parameters.

Just my thoughts,

Doug


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: PUZZLE on January 16, 2014, 08:20 PM
manta glider :) and thats me flying the Chiroptera and Makalu1 recording

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXtLqp1xb-Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXtLqp1xb-Y)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: True Rookie on January 16, 2014, 09:13 PM
 Once again thanks everyone I really enjoyed all of the comments and the video's. Doug half of the words you posted confused me so I am thankful for you explaining them. I am sure I will be coming back to this thread to read your post, to much to try and learn all at once but am great full for your knowledge and sharing it with me and others that read this.

  What is sail loading? Also what is a Dihedral?

  Thanks,
                Mike


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 17, 2014, 04:01 AM
mike: http://bit.ly/1acxh3m (http://bit.ly/1acxh3m)


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Doug S on January 17, 2014, 05:47 AM
Mike,

I see that Thief sent you a link.  Let me explain these two aerodynamic parameters and introduce a new one to assist in the explanation.

Dihedral:  Take an assembled convention diamond shaped single line kite and place it on a table with the front side facing down.  The front being the side that would face you with the line connected in flight.  Now look at the kite from the end of the table, looking from the nose to the tail.  You will see that the tips of the kite sail are off the table on each side.  Also, you will see that the sail is shaped like a “V”, with the high points of the “V” at each tip, and the bottom of the “V” in the middle touching the table.  The angle between the two vertical sections of the “V” is the dihedral.

Sail Loading:  To understand sail loading, you need to understand projected sail area.  Using the example above, view the kite from the back side of the kite, looking down at the table.  If you traced the outline of the sail onto the table, the outline would be the project sail area.  The project sail area is the area of the sail that provides lift.  It is not the sail area of the kite when the kite is unassembled and lying flat on the table.  Sail loading is the total weight of the kite divided by the projected sail area.  The units can be what make sense for the size and weight of the kite.  The weight can be in grams or ounces.  The area can be in square inches or square feet.  If you want to compare different kites, you need to use the same units of measure.

 Using the above example, now view the kite from the side, looking across the table from tip to tip.  That vertical area is the sail area that provides stability, not lift, due to the dihedral.

As an example, my Bird of Prey glider kite wing span when assembled is 24 inches.  When not assembled and lying flat on a table, the distance between each wing tip increases to 24.4375 inches.  The area of the sail lying flat on the table is 132 square inches.  When assembled, the project sail area that creates the lift is 130 square inches or 98.5 percent of the total sail area.  The difference is due to the dihedral angle of 20 degrees between the two sides of the sail.  The side area of the sail that can be viewed from the tips when assembled is 2 square inches, which area provides stability.  So with a total weight of 3 grams and a projected sail area of 130 square inches, the sail loading can be calculated to be 0.0231 grams/square inch of project sail area or in the previously posted units, 0.117 ounces/square feet of projected sail area.

Doug


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: HK-guy on January 23, 2017, 07:48 AM
Thank you so much for the lesson Doug. It's so clear and easy understand.

About the Dihedral. How about the flex of the spars that create a kind of dynamic change on this angle, provide active stability by the wind or line pull?
The Dihedral seems never be a fix angle right?


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Doug S on January 23, 2017, 11:35 AM
HK-guy,

Great question!  The following provides my thoughts.

For my Bird of Prey glider kites, I measure the static dihedral angle with the glider kite held vertical by the nose, with the nose pointing up.  This removes the effect of gravity on the wings, which droop slightly at the wing tips when not in flight on a glide.  Consider this to be the minimum dihedral angle, which will increase under the conditions described below.

For a given dihedral angle, the sail area that you see looking straight down (projected sail area) is the area of the sail that is providing lift for flight.  Think of this area as the shadow it projects on the ground.  The sail area you see looking from the side, from the wing tip to the center spine, provides stability like the vertical surfaces on an airplane.  With too little dihedral, the glider kite will not want to track in a straight line, and may drop a tip and spin on its own without line commands.  With too much dihedral, the glider kite will just want to fly straight, and be hard to turn or spin under line commands.  I have found that 20 degrees overall or 10 degrees on each side works for me when measured in a static position, as described above.  Regarding sail loading, we use just the projected sail area to accurately calculate the area of the sail that is lifting the mass of the glider kite.

Regarding the flex of the wing spars in flight, the more the wings flex upward, the more stable the glider kite will be.  The increase flex makes it harder for a glider kite to climb under line tension.  As indicated above, the ability to turn will be reduced.  The more flex also reduces the amount of projected sail area providing lift, thus increasing the sail loading.  An increase in sail loading will cause the glide speed to increase.  It also will increase the minimum speed where the glider kite will stall.

As an example, my initial prototype for the Bird of Prey 36 had a CST DPP 0.039 in. OD carbon tube frame.  As indicated in my May 18, 2014 post on this forum, this initial prototype weighed only 5.7 grams and had a beautiful slow glide due to the very low sail loading.  The problem was that under load of the flying line for the climb, I couldn’t get this initial prototype to climb above 15 feet under no wind conditions, because the wing spars would flex too much, allowing a large portion of the sail area to washout.  The turns were slow because the wing tips would flex under load and introduce more stability.  I changed the frame to the next size up of the DPP carbon tubes (CST DPP 0.059 in. OD carbon tube), and this Bird of Prey became an entirely new glider kite with an incredible climb and responsive to line commands.  The average weight of the Bird of Prey 36 with this frame and the current run of Cuben fabric is about 8 grams.  With the stiffer and heavier frame, this glider kite became my go to kite for Indoor Single Line Ballet competition.  Indoors, I have flowing this glider kite over 40 feet above my head in the Wildwood Convention Center.

For carbon tubes with a diameter equal to or less than 0.157 in. OD, I use the CST DPP carbon tubes because of their extra strength and resilience, with a lighter unit weight than other materials available to us in the kiting community.  As a side note, I cut down the CST DPP 0039 in. OD carbon tube frame and used it in my Bird of Prey 24S, where the “S” stands for stiff.  The original Bird of Prey 24 with the solid 0.03 in. OD carbon rods is a forgiving little glider kite, but the frame was a little more flexible than I liked.  With the stiffer frame, the total weight stayed the same, but it now flys like a smaller version of the Bird of Prey 36.  For the standard version of the Bird of Prey 24, I switched to the CST 0.03 in. OD carbon rod, which provides a little more stiffness than this size rod that can be obtained from other sources.  For fun, I also have versions of the Bird of Prey 24 that I play with that have the CST DPP 0.028 and 0.033 in. OD carbon rods.  For my Bird of Prey 18, I use the CST DPP 0.028 in. OD carbon tube frame, which provides the right amount of stiffness and flexibility, with a total kite weight of only 1.3 grams.

For my Bird of Prey glider kites, I have a cross line that maintains the desired dihedral angle, which is connected to each wing spar at the center of pressure horizontal location for the sail, as measured from the center spine.  Between these two connection points, the wing spars and sail are relatively stiff.  Beyond the two connection points on the wing spars, the wings flex under load, as dictated by the strength of the selected wing spars.  This allows the wing tips to move and washout for turns under line commands.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: HK-guy on January 24, 2017, 11:20 AM
Thanks once again for the detail talks Doug.
I just found your last post was 2 years ago and think that my reply may not get noted.

So, the spars flexibility is really a matter (not just the weight, balance is important).

I don't think I can get the exact materials to fit the strength in spec. But at least now I got the picture in mind what I have to look for.
If I prefer a glider have better climb ability then the stability on the same set of frame. Maybe I can play with the cross line, or spreader position to keep the Dihedral (at least can keep it at the nose part right?).


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: Doug S on January 25, 2017, 11:03 AM
HK-guy,

For a better climb with an existing frame, move the bridle connection back towards the tail a slight amount.  With this moved location, the response from line commands for turning will be reduced slightly.  A stiffer frame will give you a better climb without changing the bridle connection point.  For my Bird of Prey glider kites, it would be my suggestion not to change the dihedral angle.

Yours in kiting,

Doug


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 25, 2017, 11:21 AM
as Doug says:
tweak the bridle to climb more....
Personally i LOVE a kite that climbs more than a straight out glider for outside....i can fly it in a smaller arena and have more fun....the first gen Plutz gliders that ceewan made were phenomenal climbers but not as good at climbing...those had a sliding lead weight on them to move the center of gravity to work with as well.
a 61/49 from Ken McNeil is a great, much bigger, climber xUL kite (eXtra UltraLight wind)...not as much of a glider and can drop like a stone if you drop the line tension.
you might like to check out this blogspot where I have listed out many of the xUL kites out there and have flight notes about most of them.
http://windsweptkites.blogspot.com/2013/11/listing-out-xul-single-line-kites.html (http://windsweptkites.blogspot.com/2013/11/listing-out-xul-single-line-kites.html)

Dihederal is most commonly referred to as the hard plastic bit that slides on a spreader and accepts the proximal ends of spreaders.   They are forced into their defined angle.....
(http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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&%#*ZsYi5gAsACgAoMAFzABCsVjBVYxDgiGdAR2IWA1wR2A6oxEMXMQHZiATMAEzAZ0AEzEMUNExpiloirFDdYhpjVR4yWxkmMkEmIAcwAEmAwCYACxgFgOYDP//Z)

But...a kite like Ramlal Tien's Oiseau does not have that fitting, but still has a slight angle back of the wings...in this case there is a couple of rods that are on the back of the kite that are forcing the wings back down...this is a more active setup and can be tweaked for wind speeds and kite activity levels as well.



Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: HK-guy on January 25, 2017, 01:39 PM
Dihederal is most commonly referred to as the hard plastic bit that slides on a spreader and accepts the proximal ends of spreaders.   They are forced into their defined angle.....

But...a kite like Ramlal Tien's Oiseau does not have that fitting, but still has a slight angle back of the wings...in this case there is a couple of rods that are on the back of the kite that are forcing the wings back down...this is a more active setup and can be tweaked for wind speeds and kite activity levels as well.

There're always so much to learn.......
Thanks thief for your link. (but seems some of your pic not show correctly)
And Doug your kindness advise.


Title: Re: Gliders
Post by: thief on January 25, 2017, 07:02 PM
Ah thanks! Holdovers from pix growing out of Picasa...