GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: Ca Ike on January 15, 2014, 03:49 PM

Title: b'zar framing
Post by: Ca Ike on January 15, 2014, 03:49 PM
Ok for those of you building a bzar 2011 I have a few tips on getting the framing set right. If you follow the plans exactly this will work. If you use Sugarbakers thread as a guide and copy how he did his nose you will have to make adjustments.

First I will try to explain how Werner did his measuring. With the sail flat he extended the centerline of the spine and the leading edges to create a point which is actually above the nose by 1 cm. this is where he measured from and what can add confusion when framing the kite. Seen in this pic on his page.


Now if you are flying the kite you will know right away if you have the framing off. The kite will backflip easily when trying to half axel, lock hard in a turtle, want to turtle while doing a comete and flip to a fade when trying to taz. I've only had one other kite so finicky with frame set up.

I've taken werner's measurements and tried to make it easier to do. Once I got them right I took out the frame and measured from the nose end of the rods themselves. Since specific lengths of the ULE and LLE are not given I measure the LE assembled as a solid length to the top of the stops. Here are my measurements.

Upper LE stop----33.2 cm
Lower LE stop----95.6 cm
Center T ----53 cm to the center of the spreader

If you used Sugarbakers nose change it actually lowers the LE rods in the LE pocket from the nose position in the plans by 2 cm. So to get the same fitting positions as the plans call for subtract 2 cm from my LE measurements.

Title: Re: b'zar framing
Post by: DMF on January 15, 2014, 06:40 PM
That great help.

I measured mine with the endcaps on and I'm off a bit so I'll try the adjustments and see if that corrects the problem. 

I think I need to re-look at the measurements on my sixth sense as well.

Title: Re: b'zar framing
Post by: Ca Ike on January 15, 2014, 11:49 PM
I've built several kites from plans and they all tend to be vague when it comes to how to do the frame measurements and if not done the way the designer did it can be off as much as 1/2 inch.  If Werner had not posted up the pic of the kite with the measurements I would still be working on it.  My vortex was the only one clear as a summer day on this point as there is a big X inside a circle on the plans where the fitting is supposed to go.  As for end caps, they add 1-2 mm if they are the usual vinyl.  Thats not enough to make a noticeable difference in flight on a full sized kite.

With the framing right, the kite really shines.  Half axels and cascades are smooth, taz is really easy, comet is crisp, axels/540/backspins are nice and flat, BS cascade is amazingly easy as are multilazies(i don't do cyniques but i do a lazy cascade that pauses between reversing lazies) and with a solid deep turtle wap do waps are really forgiving.  Side slides are super stable and reversible and fades are the flip it, stake it and take a nap type even in my inland winds.  I can tell you though that the kite doesn't like to be smacked around but rather nudged into what you want.  Overall its a very well balanced forgiving kite.

I am still learning my sixth sense but can see already that the full potential of the kite is not there so I will be going over all the specs on that one too soon and will post up when I get it right.  I think a lot of it is in the framing choice since I went with the comp frame and not the pro frame.   Great kite so far though and I'm sure I have something just slightly off.