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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: mdilucca on March 08, 2014, 05:32 PM



Title: Another Six Sense
Post by: mdilucca on March 08, 2014, 05:32 PM
It needs the bridle and it'll be ready for the first flight soon after the rain stops  :P 

Many thanks to all the Six Sense builders in the forum, especially to Steve Tapp for all the tips and advice  :)

(http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u573/mdq1954/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20Mario%20%20Di%20Luccas%20Computer%203/IMG_1394_zpsb563fc63.jpg) (http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/mdq1954/media/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20Mario%20%20Di%20Luccas%20Computer%203/IMG_1394_zpsb563fc63.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 08, 2014, 05:40 PM
Another nice kite!  Good colors :)


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on March 09, 2014, 05:12 AM
Nice one, Welcome to the family  ;)


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: DMF on March 09, 2014, 07:17 AM
I like the alternate colour TE, real nice build. 


Title: Re: Another Sixth Sense
Post by: mdilucca on March 15, 2014, 04:02 PM
Here is my first two hrs flying report about this kite  :)

Total weight 10.5 oz. (311gr) including the 23 gr tail ballast
Nitro frame and bridle as plan specs
90’ lines on 7 to 10 mph/winds

I liked so far:
It’s a big kite with a beautiful presence in the sky
Axel tricks are very nice a flat, especially taz and 540
Cometes are very easy and fast
Jacobs are very doable, but they need some careful tending
Slow and predictable

However:
Spinning circles on one wing are very wide
Not a trick monster, but I can get used to it
Yoyo’s are doable, but they require a good timing and momentum
Precision is good, but it has some over steering for my taste
Trailing edge noisy, but it probably needs some more leech tension

Questions to the Sixth Sense builders in the forum:
Does everybody attach the uphauls bridle above the upper spreader connectors?
Does anybody try a turbo bridle?
Does anybody modified the bridle specs to reduce over steering to increase precision

 Overall, I like it a lot, but it requires some familiarization with as with any other kite  :) ;)


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: tpatter on March 15, 2014, 04:28 PM
Mario,

I had a similar experience and made a few tweaks that made the kite work much better for me, although many love it stock. 

I will have to measure and post, which I'll do later tonight.  I've been wondering what sorts of tweaks others have been trying out as well. 

In the end, I really like the kite now.  As you noticed, the JL takes a bit more tending it him due to the large sail size - it just takes longer to rotate and flip!  :)

The low wind range is quite good - the large sail really works there.


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 16, 2014, 08:22 AM
Hi guys,

I'm currently flying my SS pair with stock settings as published.  I agree the SS is a full sized slower even paced kite and would almost describe it as a team kite that tricks.

Am not sure about the oversteer Mario as I don't feel that with mine.  Of course I've been messing around with the Psycho and oversteer is relative  :D  Likewise the center of the spin radius should be somewhere around the LLE fitting which is tighter than the N was for me.  You can always go out with the tow points to improve precision but that will impact the spin also.

You have the longer standoff on the inside?  I've done things like that before  ::)

As you know I tied the bridle to the outside of all the fittings (US, LS, and T).  The uphaul is adjustable but the stock settings seem to be a good spot.

Am very interested in any tweaks folks find helpful.  I've learned that proper trim settings can make or break an otherwise fine kite.  As little as 1/4" can make a difference.

7.5' kites like the Exile and Monster work best for me - a good combination of sky presence, agility, and enough sail to be efficient flyers.  The other kites like the SF, Psycho, and SS fill in around the edges as conditions and mood warrant.

All that said, I'm still getting to know the SS.  It's a little different handling than what I'm used to.


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: tpatter on March 17, 2014, 09:16 PM
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wzERrGB6fIA/UyfGfAv5fjI/AAAAAAAAFT4/73GhnHoDdM8/s800/photo.JPG)


Here are the dimensions of mine - measure on the kite from knot center to knot center for the bridle and from where the bridle meets the spar.   APAs are measured from the nose against the wall to the center of the APA fitting.

As near as I can recall, I moved the upper connectors up perhaps 1 cm and the lowers slightly as well based on empirical flying.  I don't recall if I did anything to the bridle or not. 

Anyhow, so far, for me, this is the best flying SS that I've ever flown!  :). I would be interested to try a turbo bridle on it - I wasn't aware that there were details for one.

Good luck!


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mdilucca on March 17, 2014, 10:00 PM
Thank you Tom, I'll give them a try and let you know.



Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on March 18, 2014, 05:16 AM
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wzERrGB6fIA/UyfGfAv5fjI/AAAAAAAAFT4/73GhnHoDdM8/s800/photo.JPG)


Here are the dimensions of mine - measure on the kite from knot center to knot center for the bridle and from where the bridle meets the spar.   APAs are measured from the nose against the wall to the center of the APA fitting.

As near as I can recall, I moved the upper connectors up perhaps 1 cm and the lowers slightly as well based on empirical flying.  I don't recall if I did anything to the bridle or not. 

Anyhow, so far, for me, this is the best flying SS that I've ever flown!  :). I would be interested to try a turbo bridle on it - I wasn't aware that there were details for one.

Good luck!


Smart thinking Tom, meassuring with the nose against the wall,

Funny to see that my ss's all have the upper outhoule 0,5 cm lowered for more drive and easyer pitch control


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: tpatter on March 18, 2014, 08:50 AM
I'll try that as well.  The kite has an astounding wind range - very low and also remains well mannered when it picks up. 

It's funny how the uphaul can affect kites differently.  I have several where I can move the nose setting 3 inches with the primary difference only being pull.  Others - 2 cm and the whole thing falls apart.   This kite seems very flexible to a wide variety if settings. 


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on March 18, 2014, 01:19 PM
and because it's so flexible i am testing a vented version...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BaTSdfeWyr4/UyipBZIBIbI/AAAAAAAAAbQ/XLbhu83MGlM/w702-h468-no/IMAG0515.jpg)

hopefully i can get it to fly...


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: tpatter on March 18, 2014, 08:41 PM
That one looks like it can take some serious winds!  :)

Is that variable vent duck tape I see?  Very creative. 

I had a kite with variable vents at one time, seemed to work fine.


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 19, 2014, 01:55 AM
Hey Tom, just pulled my SS out of the bag and measured. 

- Both of our LSs are within a MM. Pretty much per plans.
- Yes you did move the US connector up 1 cm.  That's quite a bit and would effectively lengthen the US.  When you assemble your kite does the US pull in the leading edges at all or just match the natural curve?
- Your inhaul is stock, outhaul is .5 cm shorter, and uphaul a full 1 cm shorter than plans.

It just occurred to me that shortening the uphaul AND moving the US connector up will effectively shorten the uphaul even further.

The effective longer US and tow point moved up should give you more lift in lower winds. Is that your observation?

As near as I can recall, I moved the upper connectors up perhaps 1 cm and the lowers slightly as well based on empirical flying.  I don't recall if I did anything to the bridle or not. 


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 19, 2014, 03:27 AM
Looks familiar  :D

Have you tried covering the vent still open above the tape?  I found venting that far up towards the nose tends to kill the fade.  The lower opening looks pretty good if positioned properly.

and because it's so flexible i am testing a vented version...

hopefully i can get it to fly...


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on March 19, 2014, 03:44 AM
That one looks like it can take some serious winds!  :)

Is that variable vent duck tape I see?  Very creative. 

I had a kite with variable vents at one time, seemed to work fine.


The ductape is only temperally, here is some imspriation:
http://www.stuntkite.de/hugo-bill-king/#more-1614 (http://www.stuntkite.de/hugo-bill-king/#more-1614)


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: tpatter on March 19, 2014, 09:22 AM
Hey Tom, just pulled my SS out of the bag and measured. 

- Both of our LSs are within a MM. Pretty much per plans.
- Yes you did move the US connector up 1 cm.  That's quite a bit and would effectively lengthen the US.  When you assemble your kite does the US pull in the leading edges at all or just match the natural curve?
- Your inhaul is stock, outhaul is .5 cm shorter, and uphaul a full 1 cm shorter than plans.

It just occurred to me that shortening the uphaul AND moving the US connector up will effectively shorten the uphaul even further.

The effective longer US and tow point moved up should give you more lift in lower winds. Is that your observation?

As near as I can recall, I moved the upper connectors up perhaps 1 cm and the lowers slightly as well based on empirical flying.  I don't recall if I did anything to the bridle or not. 

My US does slightly pull in the LEs, but nothing like what I have typically seen on this kite. 

Your observation about that change in addition to the up haul delta makes sense to me - it could be why it flys in such low winds and with excellent drive.  I've also noticed no oversteer mentioned by others.   On other kites I have noticed that bringing the nose further in reduces that tendency. 

It would probably be best to make that leg of the bridle adjustable - mine is fixed. 

It yoyos and Tazs great - I'm nit sure what other advantage would be to pulling in the LEs with the upper spreader.  From what you have described, I have really only pulled the nose forward some - an easy change to make.  :)




Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: tpatter on March 19, 2014, 09:30 AM
That one looks like it can take some serious winds!  :)

Is that variable vent duck tape I see?  Very creative. 

I had a kite with variable vents at one time, seemed to work fine.


The ductape is only temperally, here is some imspriation:
[url]http://www.stuntkite.de/hugo-bill-king/#more-1614[/url] ([url]http://www.stuntkite.de/hugo-bill-king/#more-1614[/url])


Good idea - determine where the venting works best. 


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on March 19, 2014, 01:08 PM
What i've found out at this point is that by placing tape one the nose the kite gets more pull, trickabilaty ca drive. So at this point i am trying to find out how low i can  go. All i need is a stable 4 bft :D


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 20, 2014, 03:44 AM
Without moving the connectors and if my SS had 1" longer upper spreader and 3/4" shorter uphaul, we'd have pretty much the same setup.

Mario might like those settings.  I'm still tinkering but will likely stay mostly stock per plans.

Adjustable uphauls are a good thing.  :)

My US does slightly pull in the LEs, but nothing like what I have typically seen on this kite. 

Your observation about that change in addition to the up haul delta makes sense to me - it could be why it flys in such low winds and with excellent drive.  I've also noticed no oversteer mentioned by others.   On other kites I have noticed that bringing the nose further in reduces that tendency. 

It would probably be best to make that leg of the bridle adjustable - mine is fixed. 

It yoyos and Tazs great - I'm nit sure what other advantage would be to pulling in the LEs with the upper spreader.  From what you have described, I have really only pulled the nose forward some - an easy change to make.  :)


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 20, 2014, 03:48 AM
Finding the best vent configuration that relieves sail pressure, keeps the overall kite feel, and doesn't destroy tricking ability is all the fun.  :)

What i've found out at this point is that by placing tape one the nose the kite gets more pull, trickabilaty ca drive. So at this point i am trying to find out how low i can  go. All i need is a stable 4 bft :D


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mdilucca on March 20, 2014, 09:55 AM
I checked the connector locations and they were as the specs measuring from the Steve's modified round nose to the base of the connectors (36.4 and 100.4).  Then I shortened to 50 cm the uphauls and I discovered that the right uphaul was 1 cm shorter than the left one from the original setting :'(. That explained why I had some over steering on my first fligth.
Does anybody notice some possible sleepege on the lark heads knots?

Next, I'll do a second testing with the 50, 50.5 and 64 cm bridle settings and 54.5 upper spreader this weekend and report back.


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on March 20, 2014, 11:18 AM
Finding the best vent configuration that relieves sail pressure, keeps the overall kite feel, and doesn't destroy tricking ability is all the fun.  :)

What i've found out at this point is that by placing tape one the nose the kite gets more pull, trickabilaty ca drive. So at this point i am trying to find out how low i can  go. All i need is a stable 4 bft :D

Jep, that all the fun and frustration ;D


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 21, 2014, 02:58 AM
Mario, the shape of the nose reinforcement will not affect the frame dimensions as the nose shape remains true to plans.  The spine is 1/4" shorter due to the sewing pattern - which helps the nose fold up cleanly.

Knots can slip if not tight before flying.  Give all the knots a good pull or two before flying to set them.  An adjustable uphaul, ruler, and notepad at the field will aid your testing.

Have fun!

I checked the connector locations and they were as the specs measuring from the Steve's modified round nose to the base of the connectors (36.4 and 100.4).  Then I shortened to 50 cm the uphauls and I discovered that the right uphaul was 1 cm shorter than the left one from the original setting :'(. That explained why I had some over steering on my first fligth.
Does anybody notice some possible sleepege on the lark heads knots?

Next, I'll do a second testing with the 50, 50.5 and 64 cm bridle settings and 54.5 upper spreader this weekend and report back.


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mdilucca on March 23, 2014, 11:44 PM
I did more testing this weekend with the original stock specs and I must say that the SS really impressed me so far.  Probably the combination of the right settings and getting used to the feel of the kite are the main reasons.  It requires larger inputs and timing compared to smaller 3/4 size kites and it needs sometime to start connecting with.  As soon as this connection started I began to enjoy this superb and well designed kite  :P :) I can't wait to fly it again soon  ::)



Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on March 24, 2014, 02:32 PM
I did more testing this weekend with the original stock specs and I must say that the SS really impressed me so far.  Probably the combination of the right settings and getting used to the feel of the kite are the main reasons.  It requires larger inputs and timing compared to smaller 3/4 size kites and it needs sometime to start connecting with.  As soon as this connection started I began to enjoy this superb and well designed kite  :P :) I can't wait to fly it again soon  ::)



Where's the 'like'button??


Title: Re: Another Sixth Sense
Post by: mdilucca on March 30, 2014, 09:08 PM
I flew the std SS today in 4 to 5 mph winds and I totally loved the feel of this kite in lower winds  :P ::)  :o I have the best and super easier tazs,  cometes and axels that I've ever experimented in any kite. A SUL is next on my building list  :P 


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: stapp59 on March 31, 2014, 03:54 AM
I'd say your project has been a success!  Are your settings now stock per plans?  Consider the Nitro Lites if going for a UL.  Those long LEs will benefit with the stiffer tubes.


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mdilucca on April 16, 2014, 12:15 PM
Here is an update on this kite.   Now I'm using 120 feet lines and I shortened the inhaul by 1 cm to 63 cm and the result was very possitive.  Now the kite has a smaller turning radius producing tigther turns and improved rotational tricks and precision as well.  This small adjustemnt reafirmed the capabilities of this kite and I'm ready to start building a complete set ASAP  :) ::)

I'd appreciate any advice on the SUL, UL and Vented specs  ;D


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: mr wojtas on April 17, 2014, 03:24 PM
Here's a Sixth Sense SUL thread
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=10704.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=10704.0)

still working on a good vented version...


Title: Re: Another Six Sense
Post by: photogbill on May 10, 2014, 10:27 AM
Mario,

I had a similar experience and made a few tweaks that made the kite work much better for me, although many love it stock. 

I will have to measure and post, which I'll do later tonight.  I've been wondering what sorts of tweaks others have been trying out as well. 

In the end, I really like the kite now.  As you noticed, the JL takes a bit more tending it him due to the large sail size - it just takes longer to rotate and flip!  :)

The low wind range is quite good - the large sail really works there.


Very nice color combo Mario!  ;)

I had the same observations and experience with my full size 6th. I found it's low-wind range to be exceptional. The ONLY modification I did was to tweak the bridle settings. The kite does some very nice slow JLs but does take a little more tending.