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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: Mikey1 on April 10, 2014, 06:48 AM



Title: Delta Questions
Post by: Mikey1 on April 10, 2014, 06:48 AM
i have been flying a 9 foot delta for about two years now, which i am very comfortable with, and can handle it quite easily even at high altitudes of 800-900 feet,

i am thinking about going a bit bigger this year to maybe 12 or 16 feet,

i have read a few posts here and there that seem to indicate a 16 foot pulls pretty hard and is hard to handle, i want a kite i can fly without tieing it off/down, i never tie my current kite down, i just fly it,

would a 16 foot be too hard to handle without tieing it down?

i am in canada, where is a good place to buy kites like this? i bought my 9 foot off ebay, but i rarely see 12 or 16 footers on there,

also, what size line would i need for a 12 or 16 footer? i am currently using 150 pound, so im assuming i will need something stronger if i upgrade,


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: white wing lover on April 13, 2014, 09:36 AM
Hi Mickey,

I fly a 12 ft. Sun Oak delta and that kite is a handful in much over 10 mph, it's a moderate pull at lower winds but when you hit the teens... "for-get-about-it". That is unless you want a serious work out. I hand fly the 12 on 150 # line in light winds but would move up to a stronger line for high altitudes or moderate winds.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6uPGxVUE5fk/UruonmVH89I/AAAAAAAABBI/SDB1jh1ryLU/s512/xmasdeltamain.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AzYYuHdRTH0/UrurG12RM5I/AAAAAAAABBc/eBCw1DCuANg/s640/xmasdeltaclose.JPG)

This kite likes to have something to hold it back a bit when the winds pick up other wise it wants to "over-fly".

Can't put a big kite up that high here in the states without asking for trouble... ;)


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: Mikey1 on April 14, 2014, 07:43 AM
thanks for the reply,

i know what you mean by going too high, i fly my kite near a lake where there are other people walking by, but its not too busy,

i am not sure what the laws are here, but if anybody asks how high it is i say "im not too sure" just to cover myself, i never give a specific number,

i have never been approached by anybody saying its too high, these people are simply curious about the kite, and impressed, i often have it 800 feet at least,

so im thinking about going with a 12 foot and 300 pound line, that should be strong enough? i only fly in very light winds, but im always paranoid about my line, or the connector to the kite snapping  ???


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: Allen Carter on April 14, 2014, 09:27 AM
Here's the gospel according to Peter Lynn on SLK safety.

http://www.gombergkites.com/faq/faq-s.html (http://www.gombergkites.com/faq/faq-s.html)

As a wise man one said "Learn it, Know it, Live it".   :)

A 12' Delta needs to be treated with respect.  Worth the effort, though.  :D



Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: Mikey1 on April 14, 2014, 10:37 AM
thanks for the info,

what do you guys use to attach your kite line to the kite?

i am currently using something that looks like a fishing lure leader, i dont think it will be strong enough for a 12 footer, what do you recommend?


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: thief on April 14, 2014, 12:03 PM
Keep in mind that while you might have 800' of line I seriously doubt that the kite is straight above you at that height.... The line will be at an angle so you might actually be around 400-500 vertical ...

I only fly now on ~200' long line for most of my kites....I like being able to see the details!


Title: Re:
Post by: tcope on April 14, 2014, 03:33 PM
Larks head the line to the kite. You can Google this. It eliminates possible hardware failure from the equation.


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: thief on April 14, 2014, 04:32 PM
https://www.gkites.com/howtofly/Larkshead.html (https://www.gkites.com/howtofly/Larkshead.html)


Title: Re:
Post by: white wing lover on April 14, 2014, 06:22 PM
Larks head the line to the kite. You can Google this. It eliminates possible hardware failure from the equation.

+1  I have a short pigtail of heavier flight line on the bridle tow point and attach flying lines via larkshead.


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: Lee S on April 14, 2014, 06:53 PM
My usual guide regarding hand fly vs. anchor flying a kite goes a bit like this. Look at the required or intended line weight. Then step on a scale. If line weight exceeds your personal weight, then that kite can take you out if hand flown. At the very least, it can force you into a situation where your options are let go or get dragged. This is not a happy place. So, I anchor anything over 200# line weight.  Also, on larger kites, I usually fly with the next stronger available line strength above what's recommended. I just like the additional margin of safety, and large kites can handle the weight. There are great suggestions on anchoring on the links others have mentioned.

As for larger delta kites, you will find all sorts of nice ones on the links scrolling just to the right of this very column. Into the Wind has many to choose from.

Fly safe :)


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: Mikey1 on April 15, 2014, 05:08 AM
thanks for the info,

i really only fly in very light winds, i can handle the 9 foot no problem and im a pretty strong guy, so im quite confident i can handle the 12 footer, but will of course be very cautious,

i am planning on going with 500 pound line, which i realize is overkill, its not alot more money, and at least i know i will be safe, and i can still use it in the future if i ever go bigger  ;D


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: goestoeleven on April 15, 2014, 09:36 PM
Just be careful, and don't forget the gloves.  Like an idiot, I put up an 8 foot rok at a festival last year because I was going to do some KAP, and I hadn't anchored it well first because I planned to hand fly and walk it down the beach.  Unfortunately, my gloves were just out of reach . . . . and I could barely hold the line and keep it from playing out as there was more wind than I thought when I was setting it up.  I was lucky and didn't lose any skin, and managed to bring the kite back down with some help. 

I was at another event last year, and a medium size kite (not mine) broke free of the anchor in a gust.  The owner chased it down, but lost skin off a couple fingers through line burns when he grabbed it without gloves (to avoid having it end up in Lake Michigan). 


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: KaoS on April 16, 2014, 05:28 PM
Just be careful, and don't forget the gloves. 


Not just gloves!  This is what a small 9' delta on 100 lb line did to me last weekend

(http://images16.fotki.com/v387/photos/7/1814857/11777781/ouch-vi.jpg)

When it happened I could have kicked myself for being so stupid... except I thought my foot might fall off  :-[


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: Tmadz on April 17, 2014, 08:07 PM
Thank goodness you can still kick yourself.

I usually anchor all of my SLK's. Someone on this forum put it a good way. I paraphrase: Since the kite costs way more than the line, buy strong enough line so that the kite never gets away.


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: KaoS on April 18, 2014, 12:26 AM
Thank goodness you can still kick yourself.

I usually anchor all of my SLK's.

Mine was anchored. Like I said... stupid   :-[

I went to step over the line near the anchor point and tripped over it.  In the effort to NOT fall on my face I rolled sideways, thus wrapping the line around my ankle.  Just as I went to loosen the loop around my ankle a strong gust came along.

3 feet to the right and I would have walked AROUND the anchor point  :'(


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: Tmadz on April 18, 2014, 04:47 AM
Mine was anchored. Like I said... stupid   :-[

I went to step over the line near the anchor point and tripped over it.  In the effort to NOT fall on my face I rolled sideways, thus wrapping the line around my ankle.  Just as I went to loosen the loop around my ankle a strong gust came along.

3 feet to the right and I would have walked AROUND the anchor point  :'(

NOT a smart thing to do. Unfortunately I've had to deal with my share of industrial accidents. My father was an industrial safety professional that beat it into me as well. It only takes one second of lapse in judgement to hurt someone. You'd be amazed at the stupid things people have done because "nothing'll happen"


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: goestoeleven on April 18, 2014, 06:30 AM
Another thought - you have to think about sail area when you are thinking of hand flying. 

A 9ft delta has about 20-21 sq ft of sail, assuming the height of the kite is half the base width.  A 12 ft has about 36 sq ft - so a bit less than double the sail area of the 9ft kite.  A 16ft delta is probably about 64 sq ft of sail area - or more than three times the lift of the 9 footer you hand fly, so it will probably generate quite a bit more lift.  19 feet, and you're at roughly 90 sq ft of sail.  For sails that large, you're not (usually) cranking them down - you are walking down the line and then winding up the line once the kite is on the ground.


Title: Re: Delta Questions
Post by: tcope on April 18, 2014, 06:50 AM
19 feet, and you're at roughly 90 sq ft of sail.  For sails that large, you're not (usually) cranking them down - you are walking down the line and then winding up the line once the kite is on the ground.

While the same type of kite in a larger size will generate more lift, it's not exactly proportionate to the increase in size. For example, more lift will usually mean a higher flying angle which usually reduces pull. For a kite with  design such as a Rok the size is almost proportionate to the size based on it's design but for delta it's much less so.

You touch other issues as well, such as winding line while the kite is under power. While a winding reel will avoid several issues, it can still make a mess of the line.

Would I fly a 19' delta by hand? Nope. But holding any kite to fly it is not something I like to do. But everyone is different and should do what they like to do.