GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Quad Line Kites (aka "the dark side") => Topic started by: ezme6 on May 14, 2014, 01:21 PM



Title: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on May 14, 2014, 01:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1LIefVi_Mo&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1LIefVi_Mo&feature=youtu.be)


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on May 14, 2014, 01:22 PM
I ordered a 5 kite set, been flying a pre production model for 5 months.  ;D


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: northwavesailor on May 14, 2014, 02:23 PM
I am not an attorney and the little I know about patents is that most run for 17 years.

Having said that, the pictures and details I found of this kite sure look like a Revolution knock-off. I guess that's why Revolution has patent attorneys.



Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on May 14, 2014, 03:19 PM
Is this a copy of a Revolution Kite?


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: RobB on May 14, 2014, 03:44 PM
All dual line kites look basically the same, too. Unfortunately, the flying bowtie shape must be the best shape for quad line kites. I would like four line kites a lot better if they didn't have that lame shape. The only alternative is the Benson Airbow, and I've heard mixed reviews of that one.
I think the Butterfly is different enough that it shouldn't get everyone all riled up...


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on May 14, 2014, 03:50 PM
Does this look like a copy of a Revolution kite? Not hardly. Is the framing the same as a Revolution? Not at all...Is this an infingement on a long expired patent?

 :D :D :D

But it is a much improved designed quad line kite... 8)

Can you please post some pictures or videos of your kite designs?  :)



Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on May 14, 2014, 04:17 PM
Does this look like a copy of a Revolution kite? Not hardly. Is the framing the same as a Revolution? Not at all...Is this an infingement on a long expired patent?

 :D :D :D

But it is a much improved designed quad line kite... 8)

Can you please post some pictures or videos of your kite designs?  :)



Looked at the video, it sure doesn't appear to fly any  better than a Revolution, I'll admit.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: northwavesailor on May 14, 2014, 04:24 PM
I did a Google search for: 'Amazing Butterfly System quad line kite' and found pictures of an obvious Revolution knock off with pictures showing details looking identical to a Revolution.

Perhaps I had the wrong website (and kite pix) & this is ANOTHER quad line 'Butterfly' kite and not the one you have?

Could you direct me to the real ABS kite site?


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on May 14, 2014, 04:28 PM
Talk to Lam...there is no website, he is small time
or look him up  on FB


Title: Re:
Post by: coop on May 14, 2014, 04:32 PM
Lam has a website still doesn't he?

sorry, links to non sponsors are not allowed -thief
Coop


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: northwavesailor on May 14, 2014, 04:34 PM
My Google search took me to another 'Butterfly' kite makers site that indeed WAS a direct Rev knock off.

I apologize to Lam for getting in the middle of this.....................and any confusion this has caused.

As the kids say: "My Bad"


Title: Re:
Post by: Captainbob on May 14, 2014, 04:40 PM
Lam has a website still doesn't he?

sorry, links to non sponsors are not allowed -thief

Coop

Don't see anything about a Quad kite on that site. Maybe this is a prototype rather than a production product, that is shown in the OP's video.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Allen Carter on May 14, 2014, 04:41 PM
Looking at the stills in the video it's pretty plain that this kite is not a Rev clone. The sail shape, framing and bridling are substantially different. As to how it flies and why it exists, we'll have to wait and see. I've seen Lam fly quad about as well as anyone I can think of, so we'll see what the kite's like in the hands of mere mortals.  :)


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: northwavesailor on May 14, 2014, 05:10 PM
Ezme6, I started off on the wrong foot in this thread :( sorry.

Perhaps you can give us your impressions of the ABS?

Lam can fly the heck out of them, as we see in the YouTube video!


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: KaoS on May 14, 2014, 05:26 PM
Is the framing the same as a Revolution? Not at all


The framing is more like the framing on an HQ Mojo than on a Revolution.  However, it isn't the same.  And HQ don't seem to have gotten flak for challenging the Revolution airspace!

All dual line kites look basically the same, too.

Except the Peter Powell   ... and Rolf Sturm's airplanes ... and   :D

Unfortunately, the flying bowtie shape must be the best shape for quad line kites. I would like four line kites a lot better if they didn't have that lame shape. The only alternative is the Benson Airbow, and I've heard mixed reviews of that one.

I wish I could remember the name of the German quadline kite that looks like two opposing arrowheads.  Amazing trickability - yoyos, axels, 540s, you name it!

Anyone remember?


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: tcope on May 14, 2014, 06:16 PM
Been there done this dance a zillion times....

Rob's statement kind of summed thing up. There are only so many shapes to an airplane wing. I guess all airplanes are therefore copies of the one that started it all.

The patent on Rev kites has long since been over (we've been this to death before). They do still own the trademark... but that is different. Go to a kite festival and I dare you not to see a copy of a Rev being flown. Everyone and their mother makes them. Rev could bitch and complain about this but there is really nothing they can do. Instead I _APPLAUD_ Rev's view on the issue and I have _no doubt_ it's help them make a ton of more money. Rev would rather have you buy one of their kites. But they are not going to beat on people for making their own. In reality this only helps promote their products... and it's worked out quite well for them. I've made two Rev type kites myself. I also own three of them. When someone sees me flying my own I tell them its a kite I made based on a kite called a Revolution and that is the company that makes/sells them. I suspect some of those people then go out and buy one. Not everyone can make their own.

So, please... let's not get started on this "Rev copy" thing again.

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to ignore.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: inewham on May 15, 2014, 01:38 AM
Looking at the closeups at the end of the video its not a 'Rev knock off' - its framed like a Quadriflex with 2 crossing leading edges. I once made a kite framed like a Quadriflex and it did have a nice stability in all directions.

From memory the Rev patent covered two kites side by side so there may have been an issue but that expired long ago, with regard to being a knock off in shape I don't recall any rev with 2 crossed leading edges.
 
I got tired of this whole argument years ago and was sufficiently alienated by representatives of Revolution Kites that I sold the two I had. I've not been a fan of the eyes but this is one of Lam's kites that I might buy.




Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Flying Fish on May 15, 2014, 03:43 AM
Quote
I wish I could remember the name of the German quadline kite that looks like two opposing arrowheads.

You mean the Knockout?


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ae on May 15, 2014, 10:25 AM
Looks to me like a updated QuadraFlex.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: KaoS on May 15, 2014, 06:14 PM
Quote
I wish I could remember the name of the German quadline kite that looks like two opposing arrowheads.


You mean the Knockout?


Right!!  Aviator Kites

(http://www.aviatorkites.net/Bilder/Knockout_Kollektion_Herbgruen_266x150.JPG)

Flapjacks, Slot machines, Lazy Susans, Axel Cascades... now THAT'S a progressive quadliner!

Looks to me like a updated QuadraFlex.


circa 1990... now that's an OLD quadliner!

(http://carolthompson.com/kites/quadraflex/quadraflex-4.jpg)


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: johnfarl on May 15, 2014, 11:18 PM
I am a Lam fan.  He puts his heart soul into design and build.  But will ABS perform any different than a REV.  REV has some nice attributes.  Commonality of all the spares.  Crashability with the bungees.  Omni directional flight.  I will have to feel one of these in my hands and be convinced by flying one.

Said similar things about the his dual line kites .  Flew a Fearless and it is the only kite I have flown now for about 5 years. 

It would be fun to take the boredom out of multiline with  competitor to REV.  I will at least liven up some of the evening discussions.  It might also force some more rational pricing into the 4 line scene. 

One thing I noticed is there is no horizontal vent  under the leading edge.  That is a major improvement because that vent has a life expectancy of about 2 years and then you better be pretty good on a sewing machine to replace it.  Rev does not even have a replacement service for this.  That could be a key factor in selection.

John


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: mikenchico on May 21, 2014, 12:17 AM
Yeah Rev's patent broadly covered the idea of having two separately controllable surfaces able to pivot independently. That pretty much covered any variation of the bowtie design. Rev did aggressively protect the patent even after it had expired since the threat of going to court and the associated costs was enough to keep small manufactures from producing competing designs. Not knocking them for it, the Hadzicki's put a lot of thought into the design of the whole system before it came to market and there have been no significant changes to the whole system over 27 years now. They got it right the first time and I think they deserved a pretty exclusive market for their effort which is what a patent provides.

And I agree, those might be the only Lam graphics I've really liked, great 3d effect.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 02, 2014, 07:16 AM
I see Dodd Gross announced on his Facebook page that he is getting an ABS and is going to start teaching quad lines with it.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on June 02, 2014, 08:14 AM
Im loving my ABS 5 kite set....
so new, so different, so better....
everything else is "old school" to me...


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: kiteflyer on June 02, 2014, 02:55 PM
Where can I get one of these? Are they available for purchase?

Thanks, Mark


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 02, 2014, 04:38 PM
I did a Google search on this kite  and came up with nothing. Apparently they are not on the market yet.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: thief on June 02, 2014, 04:41 PM
Looks like lam has not added it to his website yet..,


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on June 03, 2014, 06:02 AM
Not everything is on Google...
and yes they are available for order


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 03, 2014, 06:23 AM
Not everything is on Google...
and yes they are available for order

Where? 


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: RobB on June 03, 2014, 06:33 AM
Email Lam ? That's usually the way you get one of his kites...


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: thief on June 03, 2014, 06:52 AM
i thought i heard somewhere out there that now one of the best ways to get a hold of him (if you are able to) is on facebook......


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 03, 2014, 07:27 AM
i thought i heard somewhere out there that now one of the best ways to get a hold of him (if you are able to) is on facebook......

I found this page using Google.  [url -sorry...links to forum non-sponsors are not allowed..... -thief/url]


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on June 06, 2014, 03:46 PM
What a great day at Galveston Island with my ABS mid vent....
Beach winds are so nice !!  ;D

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202471880817515&set=pcb.10202471886337653&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202471880817515&set=pcb.10202471886337653&type=1&theater)


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 06, 2014, 04:40 PM
What a great day at Galveston Island with my ABS mid vent....
Beach winds are so nice !!  ;D

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202471880817515&set=pcb.10202471886337653&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202471880817515&set=pcb.10202471886337653&type=1&theater)

Bad link


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: kiteflyer on June 18, 2014, 06:07 PM
Just ordered my ABS UL from Lam. I can't wait to try it. Thanks Lam
           Mark


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Wayner on June 18, 2014, 09:39 PM
Just ordered my ABS UL from Lam. I can't wait to try it. Thanks Lam
           Mark

Can't wait to hear how you like it


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 25, 2014, 04:36 AM
I got an email this morning from Lam Hoac. All it had was a pdf attachment asking me to open the PDF. It was a phishing malware, which my AVG virus protect grabbed. His computer may be infected. I tried to email his gmail address, and it wouldn't go through. I wouldn't open any  pdf attachments from him.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: indigo_wolf on June 25, 2014, 06:44 AM
I wish I could remember the name of the German quadline kite that looks like two opposing arrowheads.  Amazing trickability - yoyos, axels, 540s, you name it!

Anyone remember?


The Knockout
by AviatorKites Germany

(http://i.imgur.com/J67Htgh.jpg)

Wingspan: 240cm
Height: 85cm
Weight: 240-300g depending on frame
Wind: 1-5 Bft / 20mph
Lines: we recommend climax Protec for ultimate response and control
UL 50daN - STD 70daN - Strong 100daN
Quad handles: use 30-40cm long handles with your KO.

Standard for normal winds 6-15mph
Ultra Light for light winds 2-6mph
Strong for strong winds 15-20mph

The KO is based on a new construction concept that gives this kite breathtaking flying characteristics.
The KO has a double leading edge that gives you the capacity to forcefully fly forwards and backwards. No other 4 line kite can do this that well.
The KO retains its shape no matter whether you adopt a radical and agressive style, fly tricks or enjoy a relaxed flying style.
The KO allows you to expand your horizon when it comes to trick flying with a 4 line kite.

List of performed tricks with the KO (why not add a few more):

Axel Forward
Axel Reverse
Axel Cascade Forward
Axel Cascade Reverse
Backflip
Flap Jack
Half Lazy Susan
Lazy Suzan
Jacobs Ladder
Backspin
Fade Jack
Fade
Yoyo
Flic Flac
Pancake

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: skb on June 25, 2014, 07:40 AM
I got an email this morning from Lam Hoac. All it had was a pdf attachment asking me to open the PDF. It was a phishing malware, which my AVG virus protect grabbed. His computer may be infected. I tried to email his gmail address, and it wouldn't go through. I wouldn't open any  pdf attachments from him.
same here, I didn't open it.
FaceBook is best for contacting Lam.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Wayner on June 25, 2014, 09:44 AM
I got an email this morning from Lam Hoac. All it had was a pdf attachment asking me to open the PDF. It was a phishing malware, which my AVG virus protect grabbed. His computer may be infected. I tried to email his gmail address, and it wouldn't go through. I wouldn't open any  pdf attachments from him.

+1


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Fearless Object on June 25, 2014, 10:07 AM
Hello my friend,

I have few email from you guy that said I sent you an email. I did not send any e-mail with a PDF file to anyone. Please delete it and do not open it. I do not know where it come from. If I remember correctly, I received an email from Tristan Underwood a week ago said some thing and a PDF file and google loop circle some thing like that, maybe that is where it come from.  Anyway. Please delete the e-mail and don't open it. Thanks for letting me know. I do appreciate.

Have a nice day.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 25, 2014, 11:19 AM
Hello my friend,

I have few email from you guy that said I sent you an email. I did not send any e-mail with a PDF file to anyone. Please delete it and do not open it. I do not know where it come from. If I remember correctly, I received an email from Tristan Underwood a week ago said some thing and a PDF file and google loop circle some thing like that, maybe that is where it come from.  Anyway. Please delete the e-mail and don't open it. Thanks for letting me know. I do appreciate.

Have a nice day.

Someone  probably put malware on your computer which hijacked your mailing list, along with your gmail account mailing list. This phishing pdf went most likely to everyone on your mailing list with your return address. Incidentally, an email to your gmail address comes back as a faulty address, so people are probably not able to contact you via gmail either. 



Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: etully on June 25, 2014, 12:06 PM


Soooo,  Lam, you're not going to send me that demo ABS afterall???  :'(


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Fearless Object on June 25, 2014, 12:21 PM
Sorry my friend, I can not do that. Maybe when we meet in the field some where soon.

Cheer !

Have a nice day !


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 26, 2014, 05:24 PM
Checked Lam's gmail address today, and was able to get an email to him , so it is working now.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: RobB on June 26, 2014, 05:51 PM
So, Bob, did you order an ABS ? Can't wait to hear more impressions of it...


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on June 26, 2014, 06:41 PM
So, Bob, did you order an ABS ? Can't wait to hear more impressions of it...

Nope , drifting away from Quads towards dualies, although I do like the way the ABS looks.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ko on June 26, 2014, 09:19 PM
give lam a call. He is a great guy to  with and I think it is the best way to figure out your needs in a kite.. Lam been way to long my friend


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on July 01, 2014, 05:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J750-ji_6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J750-ji_6E)


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Ca Ike on July 12, 2014, 04:41 PM
Is the framing the same as a Revolution? Not at all


The framing is more like the framing on an HQ Mojo than on a Revolution.  However, it isn't the same.  And HQ don't seem to have gotten flak for challenging the Revolution airspace!

All dual line kites look basically the same, too.

Except the Peter Powell   ... and Rolf Sturm's airplanes ... and   :D

Unfortunately, the flying bowtie shape must be the best shape for quad line kites. I would like four line kites a lot better if they didn't have that lame shape. The only alternative is the Benson Airbow, and I've heard mixed reviews of that one.

I wish I could remember the name of the German quadline kite that looks like two opposing arrowheads.  Amazing trickability - yoyos, axels, 540s, you name it!

Anyone remember?
Have to agree with you here Kevin.  Oh and if you do find that german quad let me know.  I've been looking for one for 20 years or so since seeing one demoed at old city kites back in the heyday of kiting.  There was also one I think by Peter Powell that was two diamond kites overlapped at the tails that was a fun, tricky quad.

Appologies to Tim and Andy, but having flown one for over a year i can say the Air Bow is not a very good quad.  Flies ok but doesn't do anything very well.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: thief on July 12, 2014, 05:59 PM
Yeah.... Check out a deca.... It had all the functionality you are looking for and more..... And not a bowtie shape....
A deca 6 or a 15 will do very well for you...


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Captainbob on July 12, 2014, 07:18 PM
Yeah.... Check out a deca.... It had all the functionality you are looking for and more..... And not a bowtie shape....
A deca 6 or a 15 will do very well for you...

Pretty strange looking kite.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: thief on July 13, 2014, 04:58 PM
Yep...but they are another phenomenal quad line to search out and fly....
Multiple versions provide increasing finite control...... And I am still a firm believer that a great deca is the ultimate indoor quadline.......


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: bt on July 14, 2014, 09:20 PM
Yep...but they are another phenomenal quad line to search out and fly....
Multiple versions provide increasing finite control...... And I am still a firm believer that a great deca is the ultimate indoor quadline.......

Indeedly....I`ve flown one inside just once....wowee....although I do own 2 of the 6ft 0 wind deca and 3 of the 0 wind mini deca`s and they are my fav no wind quads.

I have a friend that has flown an ABS and was/is quite impressed....I would love to check out an UL...
bt


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: kiteflyer on July 15, 2014, 03:27 PM
Hi Guys
  I received a message from Lam on Saturday telling me that he had shipped my ABS. I can't wait to try it. I'll post back when I do!

     Mark


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Wayner on July 15, 2014, 11:19 PM
Looking forward to hearing how you like it.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on July 21, 2014, 05:36 AM
a non Lam video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHn7xFiKM0k#t=72 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHn7xFiKM0k#t=72)


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on September 01, 2014, 03:44 PM
Late summer strong winds today, The ABS full vent was freaking awesome.....so smooth and precise, so easy to fly.And best of all... Big Smile factor is built in


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Fearless Object on September 01, 2014, 04:33 PM
Thank you Tom :) I just came back from the field and the wind was from light to Mid strong. Awesome day get to fly the UL, STD, Mid Vent and Full Vent. :) Everything all set to fly :) Cheer !

Have a nice day.


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on September 01, 2014, 04:58 PM
it is awesome to have a full set, Im ready for anything !  ;D


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Fearless Object on September 02, 2014, 10:40 AM
Tom, you have the right tools to do the right job :) Now I know you always smile :)

Take care my friend.

Cheer !


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: ezme6 on September 16, 2014, 04:16 PM
 ;)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/13576484@N00/15151560585/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13576484@N00/15151560585/)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/13576484@N00/14965000808/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13576484@N00/14965000808/in/photostream/)


Title: Re: ABS....
Post by: Wayner on September 16, 2014, 05:56 PM
Love the look of that super vent.  8)



it is awesome to have a full set, Im ready for anything !  ;D

I trip to Vegas, would be a great way to break in those kites.  :D