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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: facesnorth on July 06, 2009, 02:09 PM



Title: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 06, 2009, 02:09 PM
Hey guys, I just bought a Silver Fox 2.5 standard (my first kite).  These may seem like basic questions but if anybody could help me I'd appreciate it. 

First a couple of questions regarding the tensioning system.  It was sent it in the mail untensioned, with the leading edge spars separated so that it could be compacted more.  I put the 2 leading edge spars together, but the tensioning system has me a little baffled.

1 - There is the thin white string with a loop on the end, which then goes all the way through the trailing edge down to the tail of the kite, and comes out and ties to a thick black stretchy cord which is tied around the spine about 9 inches up from the tail.  Do I just take the loop and put it around the notch in the end of the spar?  But it's not very tense. 

2 - Then the thicker black tensioning string has a knot that won't reach the notch no matter how hard I pull, and then there it has a lot of slack leftover with a small knot at the end.  Not really sure at all what to do in order to tension it properly.  Then there is a cap for the end.

Also, a loose brass weight came in the bag, as well as a small heavy black piece, which seems like some other kind of weight.  It's wide and cylindrical shaped, but the ends are capped off, and it has a hole in the middle of the cylinder.  I noticed down by the tail where the velcro was flapped over, there was another little brass weight in there, so I unflapped the velcro to take a look at it, and it fell out, and some other little black plastic piece fell out, and what appeared to be a small spar inside of the spine seemed to suck up inside the spine and I can't get it to come out.  Now the spine seems a lot shorter than it should be and I can't figure out how to lengthen it.

The bridle is very long, and there are red and blue beads all over.  It seems one option would be to just larks head to the end of the long strings, but the guy that sold it to me said it's an adjustable bridle system and to try and get some help figuring out how to make the adjustments.

Thanks!!


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: Steve Hall on July 06, 2009, 02:23 PM
Perhaps this will help:
http://www.gwtwforum.com/pdf/sf25instructions.pdf (http://www.gwtwforum.com/pdf/sf25instructions.pdf)


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 06, 2009, 07:41 PM
Thank you, I'm going to see now if I can figure out all my answers from that sheet and if I still have any questions I'll write back.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 06, 2009, 08:57 PM
I didn't get a pamphlet.  You have something more than the PDF that was posted above?  If so, I would love to see it, I will PM my address if you don't mind sending it or a copy (or if you want to scan and email it I will send my email addy).

The PDF helped me to understand the bridling system.

Also I think I can tension it properly.  Basically I just stick the thin white thread over the nock, then I pull the loop of the thicker dark grey one over the nock, and then pull the loose string from the same dark grey line over the nock again, pull tight, and then put the rubber end cap over it.  What is the proper amount of tension to put on it?  How can I tell what is "just right"?

The main question now that I have relates to what I mentioned about the tail weight falling off when I opened the velcro.  I got the piece to slide back out that I had mentioned seemed to slide into the spine.  Basically it's a small thin piece of spar.  Apparently it fits inside of the Dynamic spars.  It seems there used to be glue on it holding it in place, but that's dried up, now there is nothing to make it stay put.  It will just slide all the way up the spine.  Without it, the spine is way too short.  With this piece glued in there, it gives a thinner diameter to the spine so the balast weights and tail weight can be added on.  There is also a small piece of thin black plastic which can surround this piece, but I'm not sure what it would be used for.

There is a similar, thin small spar that was sticking out of one of the Dynamic lower spreader spars.  It also was very loose with the glue dried up, and it fell out easily.  It apparently is what is supposed to slide in through the center T connector and then the lower spreaders attach on to this loose spar.  Seems kinda wonky.  Like it could slide into one of the spars, and then the whole thing falls apart.  I'm especially wary about the one in the spine.  I have no idea how I'm going to keep that thing in place.  Seems like a poor design.

Should I just glue it into the spine?  How do I know the correct length that the spine should be with this thing attached to it?  I would be inclined to write Flying Wings what I should do but they haven't answered an email I wrote them from a couple weeks ago.  Does anybody have experience dealing with these pieces on this kite?

Thanks.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: mikenchico on July 06, 2009, 09:09 PM
Yeah you'll need to glue those in, gap filling super glue or epoxy, I've heard some people have used fingernail polish with success too.

Hopefully Steve (sbrown (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=861)) will come in here and help with how much to leave out on the spine, he's got the full set of Silver Foxes and really likes them. PM him if you want, I'm sure he'd be happy to help you.



Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: sbrown on July 06, 2009, 09:47 PM
CA glue failures happen to the best of 'em, even 'boutique' kites.

Fortunately, it's an easy fix. I use gap filling CA glue, like Zap A Gap. Make sure that you get the slower acting glues and not the instant bonding version.

The bottom spreader ferrule (the thinner carbon rod that fits inside the bottom spreader) needs to have ~3" sticking out of one of the spreaders.

The spine extension needs about 2 3/8" exposed from the end of the spine.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 06, 2009, 10:32 PM
Thanks guys.  Zap a Gap CA+ Green appears to be available on Amazon in .5, 1, 2 and 4 oz sizes.  The 2 oz bottle seems to be good bang for the buck.  It says 20 seconds cure time, is that the slow one you are talking about?  edit: the 4 oz bottle says it cures in 30-45 seconds, but it looks like the same stuff, I'm not sure why it would be different.

I may as well pull out the leading edge spars and re-glue everything since it's likely the glue has dried up on all of them.  Thanks for the idea on that.  edit: Problem is, I don't know how to get the leading edge spars out, because I can't see how to remove the leading edge connectors.  I can see how I would remove the yo-yo stoppers, but it would require me cutting and replacing the plastic pull-tight thingy holding it in place.

So should I use sandpaper on the thin spars to get all the dried glue off before I put the Zap a Gap on?  Is that the only preparation necessary?  Do I run the glue thinly up and around the entire length of the small spar before putting it in?  Or just a few small amounts?

Not sure what you mean by checking the stopper at the center T to make sure it is holding, Norm.

Also thanks for the measurements I needed, Steve.  As soon as I get this glue I'll be ready to fly this puppy.

Any thought on what the thin black plastic piece is which was on the mentioned spar in the spine?  I don't see the point.  Is it to put some separation between the ballast weights, or a ballast weight and the tail weight?  Or maybe it should also be glued on, at a point where all 3 of the weights could fit on?  So the weights don't slide up and down so much?  Only if 1 ballast was on by itself, or 1 ballast with the tail weight would the ballast slide up and down slightly in that case.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: sbrown on July 06, 2009, 11:02 PM
Quote
Any thought on what the thin black plastic piece is which was on the mentioned spar in the spine?
It's a movable stopper for the weights. Just slide it snug to the edge of the brass weights and move it up or down for more or less weights.

CA glue has a shelf life, that's why glue failures are so common. After being open a while it doesn't bond properly. Even though it doesn't seem cost effective, I now buy the smaller bottles, as the large bottles go 'bad' long before I use it all up.

When I helped out at a kite workshop, we prepped the spars by wiping the insides with a test tube brush, to clean out dust and the release compounds left inside. The spars were then set aside for a while and then each glue joint was tested by tapping the end with a plastic mallet to make sure it had set properly.

Most hardware stores/hardware departments of big box stores carry gap filling CA glue.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 06, 2009, 11:59 PM
Quote
Any thought on what the thin black plastic piece is which was on the mentioned spar in the spine?
It's a movable stopper for the weights. Just slide it snug to the edge of the brass weights and move it up or down for more or less weights.

That's what I was thinking, but it's not at all snug on the small spar piece.  It's very loose.  And glueing it wouldn't allow me to move it up or down snugly against the weights.  Is there any way to correct this or suggestion on something alternative to use?

Quote
Most hardware stores/hardware departments of big box stores carry gap filling CA glue.

I was thinking of buying the .5 bottle for the reason you mentioned.  Perhaps I will just check some shops tomorrow and see if I can pick one up this way I don't have to wait for shipping to fly this puppy.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: sbrown on July 07, 2009, 12:41 AM
You could use an O ring or slice of vinyl tubing of a diameter small enough for a snug fit.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 07, 2009, 10:58 AM
OK, yes there is a stopper and it is glued on very well.

How can I remove the Leading Edge connectors to get the leading edge spars out to check the glue?


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: chilese on July 07, 2009, 12:03 PM
Store your epoxy in the freezer. Do not just keep it in the kitebag. It will last 10 times as long YMMV.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: sbrown on July 07, 2009, 12:32 PM
Quote
How can I remove the Leading Edge connectors to get the leading edge spars out to check the glue?

Only do one side of the kite at a time, so you have a reference to put it back together correctly!

I usually first try prying under the edge of the upper C clip with my thumbnail and if I break my thumbnail, I go for a thin screwdriver. Gently work it under the edge of the clip, working from both ends. It should pop off, especially if the glue on all the kite has failed like it did on the ferrules.

Once the upper C clip is off, slide the spreader fitting upwards to the top of the leading edge cut-out and pull from the end of the spar. You may need to move the connector fitting up and couple of times and feed the bridle into the leading edge tunnel until the lower leading edge spar is clear.

Next do the same thing with the upper leading edge spar (except you don't need to remove the C clip) until the end is visible in the lower cut-out.

Is this kite new or used?


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: ezme6 on July 07, 2009, 03:59 PM
Quote
How can I remove the Leading Edge connectors to get the leading edge spars out to check the glue?

Only do one side of the kite at a time, so you have a reference to put it back together correctly!

I usually first try prying under the edge of the upper C clip with my thumbnail and if I break my thumbnail, I go for a thin screwdriver. Gently work it under the edge of the clip, working from both ends. It should pop off, especially if the glue on all the kite has failed like it did on the ferrules.

Once the upper C clip is off, slide the spreader fitting upwards to the top of the leading edge cut-out and pull from the end of the spar. You may need to move the connector fitting up and couple of times and feed the bridle into the leading edge tunnel until the lower leading edge spar is clear.

Next do the same thing with the upper leading edge spar (except you don't need to remove the C clip) until the end is visible in the lower cut-out.

Is this kite new or used?


I use the above method but use a little acetone under the C-clip.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: fidelio on July 07, 2009, 04:44 PM
if you use acetone, try not to get it on your skin or breath it too much, it's nasty stuff.

cyanoacrylate glue (CA/superglue/krazyglue) is very brittle and doesn't deal with shock well. so what i've done in the past is take a flat blade screwdriver and a hammer and tap on the c-clip lightly and the glue join has broken without too much effort.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 07, 2009, 09:35 PM
I drove about an hour 15 minutes today to buy some zap a gap CA glue (called everywhere and that was the closest) and some O-rings.  I first did the ferrule in the lower spreaders, going for 3" sticking out, and it dried with about 3 5/8" sticking out.. Oh well, hopefully that will be sufficient.

Then I went to do the one on the spine, and I did this one much quicker to get it as close as possible to 2 3/8" sticking out.  Well I got it so just a hair under that is sticking out, maybe 2 5/16" sticking out.  But when I went to flap the felt up over the velcro covering the spine, it seems from the fold where it used to be, and where the velcro naturally wants to attach which is about where the top of the felt matches the top of the velcro pad reveals the spine used to be about 1 5/8" longer than I have it now.  I would just like someone with a SF 2.5 standard to verify what the length of the spine including the extension should be from tip to tip?  If I fold it over taught, it doesn't feel right, it feels short, and there is a lot of extra slack on the felt sticking up over the velcro.

Regarding the upper spreaders, I'm not sure I want to mess with it.  I slid them apart, and banged on the ferrule a little, and they both seemed fairly solid still, so I don't know if I want to go through all the hassle of removing the c clips above the connectors if it's not necessary.

It's a used kite, BTW, bought on ebay a week or so ago, but the guy that sold it to me said it only flew for about 15 minutes, and he definitely seems trustworthy to me (he even gave me a bunch of extras, including a 3 meter Quadtrac with lineset, and a 100' 150# dual lineset.  He said he bought it to leave open for noobs that came by and were interested to try out kite flying so he didn't have to let them fly his Aerostar Sano SSL+ or his Mamba.  But soon after he bought it, he won a Quantum in a raffle and feels it serves the purpose better so he put the SF up on ebay.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 11:35 AM
As I suspected, mine is short, about 35" including the ferrule.  That's with 2 3/8" of ferrule sticking out of the spine.  Did I just royally screw up my kite?  How am I going to get the ferrule out with all that zap a gap?  There's gotta be 5 inches of ferrule inside the spine with zap a gap all over it.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 12:06 PM
I'm guessing I should remove the spine from the sail before doing so?  I guess I will be removing at least one c clips after all...  I don't have acetone, I will have to go out and buy that.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 12:21 PM
bringing some water to boil now

update:  OK I've had the ferrule and lower portion of the spine sitting in boiling water for a total of about 8 minutes now.  I tried lightly hammering both the ferrule into the spine, and the spine down onto the ferrule.  Not budging at all.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 12:52 PM
I don't have the spreaders in place.  I pulled the sail up close to the T connector and tied the bungee around it tight to hold it.  Then with the water boiling in a pot on an outer coil of my stove, I stood the kite up on the floor and leaned it against the stove so just the lower portion of the spine with ferrule is sitting in the boiling water.  The steam isn't touching the kite sail.  It's been in there over 20 minutes now, and even the little bits of zap a gap that are coming out the bottom of the spine haven't softened.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 12:53 PM
OK I'm letting it cool off now.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 01:07 PM
Throughout that 20 minutes I took it out every few minutes and tried tapping.

I just let it cool off and tapped again, now I'm boiling it again.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 01:36 PM
Dude, u da man!  Finally knocked it out.  Now I'm gonna try and clean it up and then make it the appropriate 91.5 cm.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 01:50 PM
According to this site http://www.manuelsweb.com/in_cm.htm (http://www.manuelsweb.com/in_cm.htm), 91.5cm is exactly equal to 36 inches.  The spine appears 1/16 short of 32.5" so I'm going to stick the ferrule out 3.5 and 1/16" this time.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 02:34 PM
OK I've got it zapped up again and everything is perfect.  Can't wait to fly this puppy.  Unfortunately today was my day to fly but there's no time left for it, so I may not get a chance again until next week.  That's OK though, I'm just glad everything is OK now with the kite.  Hopefully the leading edge spars will be OK, the ferrules seem tight enough.  I just didn't feel like dealing with the hassle of removing the c-clips.  Thanks everybody for helping with this.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: tpatter on July 08, 2009, 08:38 PM
C-clips are easy after what you just did!

I just grab onto them with some small pliers - a little twist and then pop right off the spar.  Generally, you can even re-glue them back on if you are careful in taking them off.




Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 10:34 PM
I'd be more comfortable if I had spare c clips lying around.  I'd hate to break it trying to get it off, and not be able to replace it with the same sized clip.  Is there a source to get a bag of these?


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: tpatter on July 08, 2009, 10:43 PM
I usually just cut an end cap section and glue it on - looks better than a C-clip (I think) and stays on better.  They are there to prevent things from moving - sliced caps are nice sine you can go all the way around if you like to a nice clean look.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: fidelio on July 08, 2009, 11:00 PM
you can also use a thick tape like masking tape. just cut a thin strip and wrap it around the spar several times. it will gain thickness with each trip around the spar and voila, instant stopper.

my tape of choice is black gaffers tape but virtually any tape would do. the tape is easy to take off, easy to replace, relatively cheap, and a roll of tape would make thousands of 'stoppers'.

of course the real thing is great, but i find the tape a totally acceptable substitute.

oh and tom, great tip about cutting the end cap.  8)


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 08, 2009, 11:38 PM
Good ideas, although I don't have spare end caps either so I would probably feel better about the tape idea.  Never heard of black gaffers tape but I will look for it at the hardware store.  I have a feeling I'm gonna end up flying this thing before I get around to checking the ferrules in the leading edges, but I may as well either make sure they are secure, or loosen them and re-glue them to be safe, considering the glue failed on 2 ferrules already.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 14, 2009, 08:44 PM
Was thinking of opening a new thread, but this one will work fine considering there's not a whole lot of traffic.

I finally got the 2.5 in the air today, and did not like it very much, but I am wondering if something is wrong with the bridle.  Really it's been the least desirable kite I've flown so far in my short history, and that includes an HQ Floater, a New Tech Cherry Bomb, and an HQ Floater.  The bridle just doesn't feel right.  The inner part of the bridle is very slack.  The only way to keep the bridle taught would be to keep your arms spread apart by about 15', which is obviously not possible.  Overall I had a lot more fun with the Breeze today.  Perhaps I am doing something wrong, or maybe something can be adjusted.  But if everything is as it should be, then I can easily see this ending up another thread in this forum with the initials KYRB, and perhaps another one of the forum areas with the intials SM.   :'(

Started out in a baseball field with low winds and the kite was real heavy.  So I went to the top of a local mountain 2100 feet, Big Pocono State Park, and the winds were stronger and more consistent, although I didn't have an area to move around, pretty much had to stay put, but that was OK.  I flew the 2.5 100' 150#, 50' 50# and 75' ?# lines.  I only had time to mess with the bridle in the red bead position, didn't have time to try out the "turbo" setting aka the blue beads.

Ideas???


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: Untitled on July 14, 2009, 08:55 PM
sounds like you might have something not tied in the right spot.  all the slip knots should be behind only the blue or only the red beads.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 14, 2009, 09:15 PM
Checked that, and they are all behind the red beads.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: chilese on July 14, 2009, 09:23 PM
Inches to cm and back has had a few definitions.

A quick Google™ led me to the very well known

1 meter = 39.37 inches

which has been rounded from

1 meter = 39.3700788 inches

Which translates into

36 inches = 91.440002 cm or even the easier 91.44 cm.

But 91.5 cm is just tacky, not exactly.   ;)


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 14, 2009, 09:41 PM
I know you're kidding but just to be clear I feel the spine length is good now, but the bridle is wonky.   ;D  Not sure if that's the design, or if something is off in my bridle.  Measurements of the bridle would be useful to see if mine is sectioned off properly.   :-[


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: tpatter on July 14, 2009, 09:53 PM
Can you post a picture of the bridle with the kite assembled?  Something seems wrong - it should fly pretty well with no issues in reasonable wind.

The whole comment about keeping the bridle taut seems wrong - it should be taut in all respects as soon as you launch.

I can dig mine out and measure it tomorrow if you don't have the dimensions by then.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 14, 2009, 09:57 PM
I've been having trouble with my USB cables on my PC.  Basically affecting everything that involves plugging a USB in.  I will give it a shot though.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 14, 2009, 10:33 PM
Working, pictures forthcoming in about 10 minutes.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 14, 2009, 11:08 PM
Photobucket is impossibly slow now, so I opened a flickr account.
edit: this post doesn't seem to allow me to use the img feature to post the pics in the post.  I've seen others do it, but I'm not sure how.  Either my post count is not high enough and I don't have access, or opera 10 won't allow me to see it, or I'm doing something wrong.  I will just replace the img codes with url codes so you can click them yourself rather than view them in the post.

From this one you get an idea of how the inner bridle line has no tension when I'm pulling on my lines:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304949/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304949/#)

Here you can see that in order to make the bridle fully tense, you have to hold the lines wayyyy out to the sides:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304955/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304955/#)

Other side showing the same phenomenon:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304963/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304963/#)

Here is one last pic, which shows that the larks head above the last red bead, closest to where my lines attach, doesn't seem to do much, it can slide easily back and forth.  Here I've slid it to the middle and it doesn't mean anything:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304971/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/33452639@N02/3722304971/#)

By the way, I have the end caps off and the tension wire loose.  I forgot to fix that before taking the pics.  But it looks the same either way, has no effect on what I'm describing.

Thanks for the help.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: chilese on July 14, 2009, 11:55 PM
Below is a hyperlinked photo of the bridle on a 2.5. If you go to the link and click on the magnifying glass, you will see the best picture I have of a stock bridle. The kite is flying in this photo.

Hope this helps.

(http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/44703/2521434910049870108S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2521434910049870108jlXtFl)


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: facesnorth on July 15, 2009, 12:30 AM
That looks very similar to mine, except yours is on the blue bridle in that pic.  I just adjusted mine to blue and compared and it looks similar.  Not sure what my problem is.  I may try flying on blue to see the difference.

Kind of similar in yours you see how the line seems to be pulled to the side in order to taught the bridle lines.

Note also that I tried flying it with just one of the brass weights, as well as the heavier black tail weight in addition to the one brass weight.

Something definitely felt way off.  Steering was not responsive.  It even seemed to favor one side.


Title: Re: Help with new Silver Fox 2.5 standard, please
Post by: fidelio on July 15, 2009, 12:58 AM
one thing you should know is not all people like all kites. some people get along with certain kites much better than other people. however this doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with a particular kite.

there may indeed be something wrong with your bridle, but there may not. once you get the measurements, verify and adjust as needed.

beyond all that though, my advice to you would be to fly, fly, fly. there's no substitute for experience and time on a kite can change the way it feels in your hands, and your impressions of it's faults and benefits.

so get out there and keep flying. :)