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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Kitemac on July 08, 2009, 09:44 AM



Title: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: Kitemac on July 08, 2009, 09:44 AM
I have reviewed recent posts on light weight kites and still do not understand if I should look at getting another.

I currently have a Prism 3D.  The kite has the unofficial title of being left in the kite bag more than anything else I own.  I have often compared it to diet soda.  Not very satisfying.

The best light wind kite I have is a Beetle.  It will launch when my Quantum and Yukon refuse to stay up.  Based on my hand held meter the Beetle needs around 3-4 mph winds to lift.  Lulls below 3 and it will come down. 

Are there any kites that would be under $150, fly in very little wind (without me putting on track shoes), do a reasonable amount of maneuvers and could withstand an occasional crash?

I am very anxious to see what kind of kites are used in the upcoming Liberty State Park competition.  This is the wind I have to deal with.

Thanks,

Tom


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: Dolphinboy on July 08, 2009, 10:11 AM
Acrobatx UL, 99 bucks from Steve.
http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=93 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=93)
It will work in less wind than a Beatle but not less than the 3D. But it's way more capable than the 3D. The build quality is pretty good.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: adx1592 on July 08, 2009, 11:04 AM
This is my answer for everything like this---
SKYBURNER KITES NIKNAK!!!
Ive had it for a LONG time. Im pretty sure about 10years. I got it sense the 1st year of production and its been amazing. Very solid indoor/low-wind kite. 'cant go wrong with it. Great precision. Nice slow axels, 540's, etc. great stuff. I think the modern price is in the 150,160 range.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: tpatter on July 08, 2009, 12:13 PM
I had 3Ds and many others for a long time before I found the Shadow, which was exactly what I was looking for in that class of kite.

Flys in very low wind, but also does tricks in the same way that a full-size standard trick kite will.

It's one of my favorites.  I have a friend who really likes the Acro UL - way better than the standard Acro in my opinion.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: asburyparkjohn on July 08, 2009, 07:40 PM
Tom - When at Liberty ask for asburyparkjohn (apj). See you on 7/18.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: RobB on July 09, 2009, 04:57 AM
Yeah... I couldn't stand my 3d, either. If you want a tricky low wind kite for that kind of $$$, I think the HQ Shadow is the hands down choice... if you can find one. It is out of production (stupid), but I bet you can find one if you look around and be patient. One just sold in the swap meet in the last couple of weeks.
The Sky Burner NikNak is a great kite, and will fly in lower winds than the Shadow, but, is not as tricky. I have both, and wouldn't get rid of either.
Of course, a great choice would be to save a little more, and get a Muse LT from Blue Moon. You just can't go wrong with that. A kite made for YOU in your colors for less than $250, shipped.
~Rob.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: cids on July 09, 2009, 05:08 AM
Stay home and watch tutorial DVD... :D :D if the wind is no g ;) ;) d.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: KaoS on July 09, 2009, 04:41 PM
... fly in very little wind ... do a reasonable amount of maneuvers and could withstand an occasional crash?


Airwave UL or Airwave Zero from Flying Wings fit those criteria.  YouTube for videos


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: ko on July 09, 2009, 09:38 PM
shadow if you can fly a 3d you will enjoy it


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: hdegive on July 10, 2009, 12:18 AM
One of my favorite kites that will fly in just a breath of air and do a lot of tricks is the STX 1.8 by Cavalier du Ciel. You should be able to get a used one for around $150. Check it out if you get a chance. It is a smallish kite, has nice graphics. It sits deep in a turtle and most of the lazy susan based tricks are easily accessible. It is great at Jacob's ladder and does wrap up tricks with the right touch. It does all the standard tricks (axle, back spin, etc) well.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: Kitemac on July 10, 2009, 11:16 AM
Thanks for the input.  I was hoping for more of a consensus but the list is getting large.  Since I can't buy them all my initial feel is:

Muse LT and STX: Too expensive for my current skill level.  I could see a Blue Moon in my kite bag someday.

HQ Shadow: Looks like there are a few dealers who may have them.  I saw one listed at $189.  So this again is too expensive.

Airwave UL/Zero: Are these available in the US?  I did not see anything on the Flying Wings homepage about them.

That leaves the Niknak and Acrobatx UL.  The coloring on the Niknak is not very appealing to me.  The Acrobatx is okay. 

What would I miss if I get the Acrobatx over the Niknak?


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: chilese on July 10, 2009, 11:55 AM
Haven't flown a Nik Nak.

The Acrobatx UL is not an SUL or even a UL and by today's standards, more of a heavy UL. It can be flown in lighter winds, but not without much more effort than a Shadow, for example.

I do like the Acrobatx UL but would much rather have a Shadow or Muse LT.  :)


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: adx1592 on July 10, 2009, 12:03 PM
ive never flown the acrobatx but ive been a fan of the niknak for a LONG TIME.
the niknak is really solid, great precision, etc.
Itll do axels, 540's (with effort), pinwheels, cascades, etc. the basic older style tricks. Its a great kite for the money if you ask me. I only fly skyburner indoor indoor/zerowind outdoor kites. What the niknak does, it does well. I dont think youll ever be dissapointed. If you want something trick orented later on, great, but id get the niknak as a good solid starter, for begining to fly in light wind. 'great kite for the money. Ive had mine for a long, and i mean LONG time, and its still going strong.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: st3307 on July 10, 2009, 01:40 PM
  and  if  it  is  just  a matter  of  the  color  of  the  sail  call Mr. Hall up   I   could  almost  place  money  on  it  he  could  get  you  a  custom  one  for  a  few  extra  dollars  and  you will have  the  color  NicNak  you   would  like


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: UPNET on July 10, 2009, 02:22 PM
If you can drop $99 on a kite...I would suggest you save up and get something a little more higher end. Your skill level will increase faster with a kite that is more capable from the get go.  Unless you are still Lawn darting....your going to end up with a higher end kite eventually. It's just how many kites you will have purchased in between what you have now...and where you will end up. Keep an eye on the Swap Meet. You can get some excellent deals.

SAVE UP


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: anOldMan on July 10, 2009, 04:23 PM
To be quit truthful, the most important advice for Light Wind flying (kites) is your feet. Move them and the world is open to you.  :)


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: Kitemac on July 10, 2009, 05:00 PM
If you can drop $99 on a kite...I would suggest you save up and get something a little more higher end. Your skill level will increase faster with a kite that is more capable from the get go.  Unless you are still Lawn darting....your going to end up with a higher end kite eventually. It's just how many kites you will have purchased in between what you have now...and where you will end up. Keep an eye on the Swap Meet. You can get some excellent deals.

SAVE UP

UPNET:

I want to be sure I understand your advice.  Looking at your photo collection aside from the BMK and STX kites aren't all of them in the <$100 category?  Are you saying that you should go directly to the BMK/STX and forget the rest of your collection?

My dual line collection includes a Beetle, HQ Yukon, Quantum, Prism 3D and a few air foils.  The only one I regret so far is the 3D.  Depending on wind conditions they all get to stretch their wings.  As long as the kite can still exceed my skills (they all can right now) I have fun when I go out.  When I know enough to recognize what my ideal high end kite should be then I would get it.  Until then I am happy living in the low to medium price range.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: Kitemac on July 10, 2009, 05:02 PM
To be quit truthful, the most important advice for Light Wind flying (kites) is your feet. Move them and the world is open to you.  :)

Are you saying that any of the suggested kites would require me to run around?  This is not something I wanted. 


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: UPNET on July 10, 2009, 05:45 PM
To be quit truthful, the most important advice for Light Wind flying (kites) is your feet. Move them and the world is open to you.  :)

Are you saying that any of the suggested kites would require me to run around?  This is not something I wanted. 

Maybe you might be a Quad guy..... ;)


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: tpatter on July 10, 2009, 07:16 PM
Not "run around", but watch ANY good dual line flyer and they are constantly moving forward and back to maintain sail pressure and slack - and thats in decent winds!

In low wind, its even more important.  Once you get used to it, you learn to minimize creating situations that will cause you to have to move as much, but you still gotta move.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: RobB on July 10, 2009, 07:38 PM
I think you all ready have enough dual lines kites to have the experience to step up to a Muse, or a Shadow. I spent too much time on low end kites, too much money. They are all in the basement, haven't been flown in years. The high end kites can take a beating just as well as the cheaper ones, if not better.
The NikNak will fly in next to no wind, and the only thing you give up is range of tricks. It would take some moving to keep the Muse or Shadow up in the same wind that you could just stand still with the NikNak. Great kite for the money, and the simple design would grow on you.
My point is, don't sell yourself short, you all ready have a cheap light wind kite, and don't like the way it flies. Save a little longer for the good one that's fun to fly...
~Rob.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: lylenc on July 10, 2009, 08:31 PM
Efficiency reduces foot work, but you still end up covering a lot of real estate in a session. My rough rule is to stand by the kite bag and work my way backwards as slowly as possible, move forward at every opportunity to regain ground, and when the kite is at the bag, all focus in on regaining ground until I'm standing at the bag again. That may involve gliding flares from the top of the window, oblong 360s, or cascades with flares held as long as possible. Sometimes you just bite the bullet and carry the dang thing.

Around here light and variable means constant shifts in speed and direction. If the wind shifts 90 degrees, it is easy to regain ground back to the bag, while the kite is in the center of the "new" wind window (instead of walking downwind you are now walking across the window due to the shift in direction). The 180 degree wind shifts make it easy to move back to the bag too, if you can get the kite reoriented without too much hassle. One has to keep an eye on all types of available wind indicators to anticipate and stay ahead of the direction shifts.

Efficiency is using the wind, window, arms, legs, feet, and shifts to maintain altitude with the least expenditure of energy. Time upward movements to be in the center of the window and down movements at the edges. Step back during up movements and step forward during down movements and slack line portions of tricks. Instead of stepping, one can often swing arms from extended in front of body to extended behind the body to achieve the same results. One of my self-challeges is to see how little footwork I can get away with - often to the detriment of completing a trick with any appearance of skill or grace.  ::)


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: nosedive on July 24, 2009, 07:10 AM
This is my answer for everything like this---
SKYBURNER KITES NIKNAK!!!
Ive had it for a LONG time. Im pretty sure about 10years. I got it sense the 1st year of production and its been amazing. Very solid indoor/low-wind kite. 'cant go wrong with it. Great precision. Nice slow axels, 540's, etc. great stuff. I think the modern price is in the 150,160 range.

Hi ADX....just to add to this , .... recently when my brother in law was in town, we went to go see Jon at his shop, and he told us he's just done some upgrades to the NikNak !!
Cool stuff :P


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: asburyparkjohn on July 24, 2009, 08:19 AM
I know we met at Liberty and you told me you were simply observing all the kites there which probably added to your confusion. From my memory I guess I told you there was no easy answer and its something (low wind flying) you develop into depending on your seriousness with kiting. For me anyway I have three answers on what is the best light wind kite: 1- Benson Inner Space as it will fly for me near zero wind. So sometimes very early in the morning when the wind is picking up or late in the day if the wind is dying to zero. Its simply a tool that keeps me flying an extra period of time with some relaxing music in these conditions. No real tricking. 2- The light wind kite(s) in my suite of competition kites (Sea Devil -SUL & UL) and 3 -Other new/experimental or interesting type kites I am currently flying like my recent TC-Ghost purchase.
Additionally - its not so much the strength of the winds (low or high) at Liberty but the direction. At my alternate grassy field (Overpeck Park, Ridgefield Park, NJ) I don't even bother if the winds are not from the SW which has minimal obstructions in the 360 degree pattern - start considering this variable. I know you told me the winds are generally from the West (like Asbury Park) - try that upper most field away from the set-up field that day at Liberty - it should work the best for you in my opinion. I flew there all afternoon - the winds were still up & down (slightly) but were almost pure (not very bumpy).


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 24, 2009, 09:31 AM
At my alternate grassy field (Overpeck Park, Ridgefield Park, NJ)
It just freaks me to see those names, as I grew up right around the corner from Overpeck and not that much further from RP.   ???  :-\

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: asburyparkjohn on July 24, 2009, 01:17 PM
This is even more strange - the best flying zone is here in Bergen County, NJ  with SW winds only however. Bergen County I believe is  a NJ county which has more people than North & South Dakota combined - and only two miles from the GW bridge  :D :D :D.
How many people have bypassed this park and headed to Liberty SP 45 minutes away thinking they would have better winds! Again has to be SW from 3-15 mph ... SWEET with the winds flying unobstructed over Routes 80 & 46 if you know what I mean - unobstructed for MILES in this wind tunnel.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 24, 2009, 01:41 PM
I expect even a lot of folks in Leonia don't fully register OP as being there.  It's just a place to get on the highway, right?  ;)

Cruising Bergen County be sure not to miss Camp No-Be-Bo-Sco (North Bergen Boy Scout)on the left, it was the filming location for the very first "Friday The 13th" movie.  Drop by the camp master's office and their should be all sorts of pictures on the  walls of the films cast and crew mugging with the camp staff.  Good night sledding in the winter too  ;)

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: facesnorth on July 25, 2009, 03:14 AM
I'm originally from Bogota, only minutes from OP.  I also used to camp at NoBe as a kid, but that's in Blairstown which is in Warren County, in NW NJ.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: RobB on July 25, 2009, 04:42 AM
This is even more strange - the best flying zone is here in Bergen County, NJ  with SW winds only however. Bergen County I believe is  a NJ county which has more people than North & South Dakota combined - and only two miles from the GW bridge  :D :D :D.How many people have bypassed this park and headed to Liberty SP 45 minutes away thinking they would have better winds! Again has to be SW from 3-15 mph ... SWEET with the winds flying unobstructed over Routes 80 & 46 if you know what I mean - unobstructed for MILES in this wind tunnel.
Hey APJ...
I'm doing a job in Jersey next week, crossing the GW every day... how do I get to this park, is it off rt.46 ?
Thanks,
~Rob.
Sorry for the thread hijack !


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: facesnorth on July 25, 2009, 01:25 PM
http://www.co.bergen.nj.us/parks/Parks/directions/Overpeck%20Leonia%20North.pdf (http://www.co.bergen.nj.us/parks/Parks/directions/Overpeck%20Leonia%20North.pdf)


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: RobB on July 25, 2009, 02:00 PM
Hey, thanks alot, I've seen them flying remote controlled airplanes in that area when I've passed by on the highway. Looks like a great spot to blow off some time waiting for traffic to thin out on my way home.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: JimB on July 25, 2009, 10:09 PM
You know, even though I am in NY that park is right up in my neck of the woods.

I'm going to have to check it out.

Thanks for the info.  :)


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: asburyparkjohn on July 29, 2009, 06:54 PM
Yes right next to the field is a remote control airplane field. Again - just a suggestion. Check the winds - if they are from the SE, S or SW and more than 5 mph give it a go - its a definite good day. If you have a low wind flyer bring that now for say a 7:30-9PM flight if the winds drop below 2 mph. SUL is OK - the Benson IS is perfect or something of this nature. The best spot is DIRECTLY south of the American flag around 50 yards on the first field on your left - forget that fenced in soccer field - STAY AWAY ... its the LITTLE things ya know ...  :D :D :D


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: JimB on July 29, 2009, 08:37 PM
I went there on Monday afternoon. I ended up right over near the flagpole of course.. Winds were out of the SW pushing 15mph or a little better.

Wind was a bit high so there was some turbulence from the treeline across the highway. It dropped off later in the day. Very nice, but again; the thunder storms in the surrounding area were causing some odd wind.

Overall, I'd say it's a decent place to fly but not as good as Liberty on the right day.

Definitely not a bad run for me though. It's quite easy to get to from The Bronx.

Thanks for the heads up. ;)


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: RobB on July 30, 2009, 04:57 AM
Hey Jim...
I am kicking myself that I didn't stop on Monday, now. Of course, I was in the express lanes of rt.80 east, so it would've been pretty hard to get off there, anyway. Now that I know how to get there, I have to stop and check it out.
Have you ever tried out Flushing Meadows/Kew gardens ? There seem to be a few spots there that seem promising. What about in between the Throgs neck & Whitestone bridges (Bronx side)? There seems to be alot of empty space there.
If you ever get out east on the Island, I could point you at a few good spots to fly, but obviously the whole south shore. Are you going to the NYC kite festival this year ? Second weekend in September...
~Rob.


Title: Re: Advice on Light Wind Kites
Post by: asburyparkjohn on July 30, 2009, 05:27 AM
Must 86 - I had heard that kite festival was cancelled.
Jim - Glad you liked it. Try it again with normal conditions. Its the best spot I found in Bergen County, NJ. To bad there is NOTHING along the Hudson River on the NJ side - there is no beach front anywhere along the entire Palisades - on the Jersey side.