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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Kitemac on July 16, 2009, 07:23 AM



Title: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Kitemac on July 16, 2009, 07:23 AM
I never knew about Blue Moon, Benson, STX etc. until I visited this forum.  What makes these high end kites better than a Prism E3?  I fully expect quality of construction to be better but do they actually fly better?

I thought the E3 was the ultimate end point for my hobby but want to understand why others have made different choices.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: DWayne on July 16, 2009, 07:31 AM
The difference between flying a Prism E3 and something like a Benson Deep Space is like the difference between driving an International Pick up truck and a Porsche 911 Targa. They'll both get you there. But what a difference in the experience.

Denny


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Bob D on July 16, 2009, 10:00 AM
Prism makes nice kites. My first two kites were Prisms. Now that I've been spoiled by L'Atelier, Blue Moon, Benson, R-Sky, Sky Sport Design and Sky Burner, there's no going back.

Several things to consider: how they fly, innovation, attention to detail, and crafstmanship.

They may not all fly the same but they all PERFORM! I can do amazing cascades, 540s, and slot machines with the Widow Maker and Deep Space. My Fearless excels at jacobs ladders. The Exile flies amazing under 9 mph and is able to do just about anything you want. I'm a hack but they all make me look good.

How they fly?

They all have their own personality. You may prefer one and may not like another. I enjoy exploring their strengths and flying something different. The Deep Space needs faster inputs and has more wrist snapping than big arm moves. For me, the Exile becomes much harder to trick than the Deep Space over 8-9ish MPH but it's great below that. Some people like Nirvanas and others try them and decide it doesn't suit their flying style. If you like the way the E3 flies and are happy with it, stick with it until you get a hankerin' for something else.

How they're made is another story. Lam Hoac will amaze you with his choice of materials, sewing, and meticulous attention to detail. The same can be said about the Widow Maker Spider that Pam Kirk and Mike Dennis sewed for Sky Burner. R-Sky has a unique system for their variable vent for the Nirvana. They sew a pocket that the shield slides into and has velcro attachment points to keep it in place on the screening. The Benson Deep Space was the first to use roll bars. Talk about innovation!

I don't have a Jest Of Eve Talon but I've heard that they're in the same class. Sure the E3 is nice but see if you can find someone in your area who has any of these kites and you'll appreciate the difference!


And if you're ever in northern New Jersey, let me know and we can meet up and I'll let you try a few!


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: chilese on July 16, 2009, 10:15 AM
Just because a kite is made in a small shop doesn't mean everyone will like it more than a mass-produced kite. People have their own peculiarities. In addition, the mass-produced kites have come up in quality over the last few years.

If you love an m-p kite, great. There is nothing wrong with getting enjoyment in that way. I have many kites of both varieties. As Bambi says, "Each kite has it's own personality."

Beyond price, boutique kites usually give you a few extras:
1 Quality
2 Choice of colors
3 The name of the person who stands behind their product

I consider kites like the E3 to be bridging in nature. You have gotten way past the lawn dart stage, you know how you like your kites to fly and can adjust the bridles toward that end.

The Law Of Diminishing Returns applies to kites.

$10 can buy you a kite
$50 can buy you a kite that flies well
$150 can buy you a kite that flies and tricks well

But to get that last 10%, you'll need to spend another $100-$200. Is it worth it? In most cases yes, in some cases no. That's why there is a Swap Meet section to the Forum.  :)


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Allen Carter on July 16, 2009, 10:48 AM
The E2 was a very successful "mass market" sport kite. It's design was seeming somewhat outdated compared to other kites (including prism's higher-end Zephyr & QPro). The E3 is a modest update to the design, improving some capabilities. It's a very good kite in the sub-$200 range.

New designs often give easier access to some tricks or some different mix of capabilities, but what it really comes down to is that kites often have very distinct "personalities". Most flyers with even fairly modest experience can fly three different kites and tell you what they like or don't like about them right away. Another person, or the same person after a few more years experience, would have different tastes.

The reason little companies like Blue Moon or Jest of Eve continue to succeed is they put out a variety of kites with their own "personality" Sure, the kites are very capable and well made, but they are also unique.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: obijuankenobe on July 16, 2009, 11:28 AM
I thought the E3 was the ultimate end point for my hobby but want to understand why others have made different choices.

 :D  I think this misconception is only a result of Prism's wonderful marketing.  They really sell their wares as though they really are the only high end kite maker in the world.  They try to elevate all their kites to status of fine instruments almost to the point of being disingenuous.  I find some of the text on their website so over the top that it borders on comical.  I find it also quite telling that up till very recently, the opening page was a scene in the mountains, flying FOILS, arms outstretched.  At least they fixed that.  The best of Prism kite technology is likely their speed bag...a very good product I use every time I fly.

The bottom line for me is a choice between mass production and kites made by an artisan kite builder/flyer/designer.  You are paying for a master's time, skill, and care...and making it possible for a guy/gal to squeak out a living (albeit a rather modest one) doing what they love.  When you get to the high end of our little hobby, Prism kites just can't hold a candle to the (Benson, Jest of Eve, Kitehouse, Blue Moon, etc.) master-crafted kites.  These kites aren't sold so much by marketing as by performance and reputation among folks that know.

obi


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Gamelord on July 16, 2009, 11:53 AM
That being said Ob1, I have seen Mr. Reed do things on a normal Quantum (not the Qpro) that I could only dream of doing on my highest end kite.  Even though Prism kites are considered to be "mass production" kites, truth is that they are very nice kites and arguably the nicest kites you can purchase from a mass production company....and they do look pretty darn good (beauty is of course in the eyes of the beholder).

Truth to it all is that the ability of a kite to perform comes down to the pilot.  It doesn't matter how good the kite is made, it doesn't matter what material is used, doesn't even matter how the stitching is done.  If a pilot is a good enough pilot, they can make "just about" any kite perform like a high end $300.00 kite.  The E3 can jacobs ladder just as easy as the Exile.  As far as it's ability to perform (certain) tricks, the E3 is just as good a kite as some of the high end boutique kites.  Just because it is mass produced doesn't mean that it can't perform.  With a good enough pilot, the E3 is capable of doing some pretty amazing things that would impress even the best of the best.

That's not to say that flying a high end Blue Moon kite is not going to be just the same as the lower priced kites on the market.  Truth is that the Blue Moon is probably going to be easier to do the same (certain) tricks - or it will do them smoother with less work.  I know that my Widow Maker does make me look like a much better pilot than I really am....but then again, pulling up to the party in a Lamborghini would be much more impressive than pulling up in a Toyota Celica. :) :) :)



Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: obijuankenobe on July 16, 2009, 12:28 PM
Certainly to a large extent, I agree with regard to pilot skill.  But put a competent pilot of a Prism E3 and a competent pilot of a Cosmic TC in a head to head competition (or in a wide variety of wind conditions), the competent Prism pilot is at a major disadvantage in most or all respects because the Cosmic is a much better design given the current list of 'reachable' and 'repeatable' tricks.

Maybe a BMW vs. a Toyota in a closed circuit race is a more apt comparison  ;).  Driving the BMW, I would lose badly to a competent race car driver in a Celica every time.  Two race drivers...the BMW wins every time.  But as a first new car...a Toyota Celica is a great place to start.  I guess what I might be suggesting is 'buy a used BMW'??  (Sorry, I took that too far, didn't I?  :D)

obi 


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: ezme6 on July 16, 2009, 12:59 PM
I agree with gamelord. Pilot skills is more important, keep your E3 until it is trashed out or you feel like spending some bigger money. I have some really high end kites and I am still a hack.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: tpatter on July 16, 2009, 01:11 PM
The kite certainly cannot trick itself, but I think that if you want to learn advanced tricks that you should be using a kite that was designed to readily do them - you will get there faster in my opinion.

I guess the E3 fits that bill, although there must have been something wrong with the one that I tried to fly.  I couldn't do anything with it, but my E2 flew and tricked well.



Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Beachbum on July 16, 2009, 01:25 PM
I have to say Kitemac is entering into a very interesting time when it comes to exploring and flying kites.

4 years ago I believed the Elixir was still the best out there.  I had no idea about the existence of R-Sky, L'atelier, and other French designs.

Hell at that time I believed the Gemini was still that last greatest thing to come out of the U.K. I had no clue about the existence of the Deep Space.

So you do have to give it up for Prism and other makers that can Mass produce. 

My opinion is to keep your E3 since it truly is one of the best Prism has to produce and use your time to study up on what people are capable of doing now and using vids (Randy Greenway's site is a start) to improve.  Finally try to find other fliers and try their gear.  I admit that when I first flew (And bought) a Transfer XTR I had no idea what I doing when it came to the new school of flying.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Kitemac on July 17, 2009, 08:14 AM
One point of clarification - the E3 being the end point was still in the future.  I do not have a E3.  The best Prism I have is a Quantum.  My skills are still being developed.

I have never seen or flown one of the higher end kites.  I wonder how many people who own the high end kites actually fly any better than if they had a E3 or equivalent kite.

Thanks for the feedback it does provide some food for thought on where the end point should be.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Beachbum on July 17, 2009, 09:13 AM
There really is not a definitive end point, for example look to the right at the ads.  There are 3 high end kite builders (BMK, Focus, Jest of Eve) whose kites are very different from each other.

The higher end kites, though based around the fact they are designed to do most things good, still have their own personalities.

But to answer your last post, yes, there are high end kites that can teach you more than an E3.  The catch is that there is not a kite that works for everyone. (Attainable at least, search "Machine" or "Instigator")


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Allen Carter on July 17, 2009, 09:19 AM
No endpoint.

It's like a person's taste in music. It changes on it's own over time, and every now and then something new comes along and shakes things up.

" I wonder how many people who own the high end kites actually fly any better than if they had a E3 or equivalent kite."

If you took away someone's Nirvana or Deep Space and gave them an E3, they wouldn't be any worse a flyer, they'd just be flying a different kite. If all they ever flew was an E3, they probably would not be doing some of the tricks they would have learned on other kites. The E2/3 is dead easy for some things and somewhat harder for others. Same is true for most kites, but the areas they shine in differs.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Gamelord on July 17, 2009, 11:57 AM
Well said Allen.  ;)


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: DWayne on July 17, 2009, 12:49 PM
If you took away my Talon and gave me an E3, I'd quit flying kites.

Denny


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: John Welden on July 17, 2009, 02:16 PM

Truth to it all is that the ability of a kite to perform comes down to the pilot.  It doesn't matter how good the kite is made, it doesn't matter what material is used, doesn't even matter how the stitching is done.  If a pilot is a good enough pilot, they can make "just about" any kite perform like a high end $300.00 kite.  The E3 can jacobs ladder just as easy as the Exile.  As far as it's ability to perform (certain) tricks, the E3 is just as good a kite as some of the high end boutique kites.  Just because it is mass produced doesn't mean that it can't perform.  With a good enough pilot, the E3 is capable of doing some pretty amazing things that would impress even the best of the best.



Nice to see someone on this thread with a brain.

These jokers that think "high end" kites are way better don't know jack.  They remind of people who think expensive wine tastes better.  Then you tell them the bottle cost 6 bucks and they decide it's not as good as they thought.

I have no doubt what so ever you could change the sail graphics on the E3 and put a Benson label on it and they'd think it was the most amazing kite ever.

A lot of these guys want to believe they have something special and like to scoff at Prism's mass produced kites as if they're totally inferior.  They got their noses bent out of shape when Prism started manufacturing kites overseas.  It's all a big joke, don't fall for it.

Always remember that there are trade offs with all kite designs. The E3 is more of an all around design that doesn't have any radical tendencies.  If they had designed it to have radical pitch ability, than I doubt the target audience for the E3 would be very happy.  The kite wasn't designed for the .000001% of kite flyers who want a radical kite.  Does that mean it's an inferior design, no, it means it's a different design for a different kind of flyer. 

With that said, the E3 will take you as far as you want to reasonably go.  Trust me, it will do every trick in the book. Going out and buying a 400 dollar custom boutique kite isn't going to make you a better flier.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Allen Carter on July 17, 2009, 02:28 PM
If you took away my Talon and gave me an E3, I'd quit flying kites.

Denny

Why?


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Beachbum on July 17, 2009, 02:52 PM

With that said, the E3 will take you as far as you want to reasonably go.  Trust me, it will do every trick in the book. Going out and buying a 400 dollar custom boutique kite isn't going to make you a better flier.

I really should of came out and said that with my Transfer XTr comment as it really did nothing for me, but I still want to emphasize if you try a kite and like it then go with it.  I am a firm believer that a someone should fly something they can "connect" with and not neccessarily have to change their own style to fly.  It kinda makes the learning process easier.

They remind of people who think expensive wine tastes better.  Then you tell them the bottle cost 6 bucks and they decide it's not as good as they thought.


Or $2 for us Charles Shaw fans




Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: DWayne on July 17, 2009, 02:59 PM
Because I really enjoy flying my Talon and I really didn't enjoy flying the E2.

Denny


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Beachbum on July 17, 2009, 03:22 PM
Bet you wouldn't say the same if it were an E1...


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: UPNET on July 17, 2009, 03:40 PM
Quote
I am a firm believer that a someone should fly something they can "connect" with and not neccessarily have to change their own style to fly.  It kinda makes the learning process easier.

I agree. I have yet to "connect" with my Acrobatx.  :'(  But I did "connect" with my Muse.  ;D  Ground recoveries are so much easier. Flies in lighter winds. I got it used on the Swap Meet. Great deal. Great Kite.

Chris


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: anOldMan on July 17, 2009, 03:41 PM

Truth to it all is that the ability of a kite to perform comes down to the pilot.  It doesn't matter how good the kite is made, it doesn't matter what material is used, doesn't even matter how the stitching is done.  If a pilot is a good enough pilot, they can make "just about" any kite perform like a high end $300.00 kite.  The E3 can jacobs ladder just as easy as the Exile.  As far as it's ability to perform (certain) tricks, the E3 is just as good a kite as some of the high end boutique kites.  Just because it is mass produced doesn't mean that it can't perform.  With a good enough pilot, the E3 is capable of doing some pretty amazing things that would impress even the best of the best.



I think the operative word in this whole statement is "IF a pilot is a good enough pilot..."

What if he or she isn't???



I have no doubt what so ever you could change the sail graphics on the E3 and put a Benson label on it and they'd think it was the most amazing kite ever.


Have you ever flown a Benson Kite????




The E3 is more of an all around design that doesn't have any radical tendencies.  If they had designed it to have radical pitch ability, than I doubt the target audience for the E3 would be very happy.


Really???
 

The kite wasn't designed for the .000001% of kite flyers who want a radical kite.


I think that more than 1 in 100,000 people who buy dual line kites want to do radical tricks!



With that said, the E3 will take you as far as you want to reasonably go.  Trust me, it will do every trick in the book. Going out and buying a 400 dollar custom boutique kite isn't going to make you a better flier.


I, personally, am NOT a reasonably person about kite flying. I want to become very good at it. So I buy the best tools that I can find to achieve that goal. A boutique kite will not guaranty that you will become a better kite flyer but it will speed up the process towards that goal.

A very personal opinion..., Please do not compare a Benson DS to a E3.  


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Beachbum on July 17, 2009, 03:46 PM
www.ickytv.org (http://www.ickytv.org)

If I flew that E1 like that back in the days I could have ruled the kite world.

On another tangent, does anyone have the old video of Mark Reed doing a disgusting amount of backspins with an Elixir using 20ft lines?


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: DWayne on July 17, 2009, 04:12 PM
Nice video. But I'll keep my Talon.

Denny


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 17, 2009, 04:33 PM
On another tangent, does anyone have the old video of Mark Reed doing a disgusting amount of backspins with an Elixir using 20ft lines?


Are you talking about the footage taken at Shoreline Park?
http://www.marindv.com/MReed_Elixir.html (http://www.marindv.com/MReed_Elixir.html)

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Beachbum on July 17, 2009, 05:13 PM
Yup, friggin awesome.  Does that count as a pioneering moment?


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Dave a on July 17, 2009, 05:36 PM
Quote from: John Welden
They remind of people who think expensive wine tastes better.  Then you tell them the bottle cost 6 bucks and they decide it's not as good as they thought.
Spot on

Quote from: John Welden
I have no doubt what so ever you could change the sail graphics on the E3 and put a Benson label on it and they'd think it was the most amazing kite ever.
And again.

Quote from: anOldMan
"...Have you ever flown a Benson Kite?..."

Yep, and sold it.
I was able to see past the label



Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Jared on July 17, 2009, 07:03 PM
A lot of these guys want to believe they have something special and like to scoff at Prism's mass produced kites as if they're totally inferior.  They got their noses bent out of shape when Prism started manufacturing kites overseas.  It's all a big joke, don't fall for it.

The one place I'll disagree with you is regarding mass produced kites versus the artisan/boutique ones.  I would seriously doubt you can find a skilled laborer overseas who cares as much about the finished product as an artisan kite-maker who has followed his or her design from sketch to prototype through to production for the individuals who specifically seek them out.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Kantaxel on July 17, 2009, 07:52 PM
A lot of these guys want to believe they have something special and like to scoff at Prism's mass produced kites as if they're totally inferior.  They got their noses bent out of shape when Prism started manufacturing kites overseas.  It's all a big joke, don't fall for it.

The one place I'll disagree with you is regarding mass produced kites versus the artisan/boutique ones.  I would seriously doubt you can find a skilled laborer overseas who cares as much about the finished product as an artisan kite-maker who has followed his or her design from sketch to prototype through to production for the individuals who specifically seek them out.

Gotta agree Jared,
I don't think anyone can put an E3 in the same leaque as a boutique/artisan's kite......just look at the price difference, and even in the Prism line the E2/E3/Zephyr.........compare them to the QPro :(  Check out the materials, the stitching, the attention to detail.....those things are just not there with the mass produced kites no matter where they're made.......  It's not saying the E3 won't fly well, it's just saying there's a difference in quality, period.  I think Lam said it best, "Why would anyone buy ten $40 kites when they could buy one for the same price, that would hold up to whatever you threw at it?"
Granted, a newbie would be silly to fork out $500 for a kite never having flown, before. (and he wouldn't get to fly my Fearless's either) ::)

Jim


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: tpatter on July 17, 2009, 08:42 PM
The thing I like most about the E2/E3 is that is comes with a DVD that shows the kite in action - sweet action.  I don't know of anyone else that does that.

For someone starting out, thats probably a big deal.



Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Steve Hall on July 17, 2009, 09:11 PM
Once a troll always a troll ... if you guys can't keep it civil and constructive take it elsewhere.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: zippy8 on July 17, 2009, 10:38 PM
Returning casually to the topic....

I like having nice things just because they are nice things. My Swatch keeps time pretty well but my Sinn is nicer, just because it is. I don't own things merely for what they do, but for how well they've been screwed together too. For instance, I've never especially rated the Betancourt kites I've owned/flown for their performance but there was always a sense of occasion flying one. The Prism Zephyr I have at the moment is almost certainly all the kite I could ever use but that's no reason for me to turn my back on Kitehouse, Robertshaw, Benson, etc., etc. just because it's a bit less money (although if I'd bought it, not a whole lot less).

Take a look at the videos the L'Atelier boys put out for some of their lesser kites - obviously no-one needs the pricey, fancy kites to do everything that can be done with a kite but, dear god, what a dull world it would be if all we had was mass produced adequacy. If someone doesn't or can't appreciate the value of workmanship and craft for itself then let them stick to their production line offerings.

Oh... and generally speaking... anything made by someone who genuinely cares about their product is superior to something banged out for a paycheck.

Quote from: tpatter
The thing I like most about the E2/E3 is that is comes with a DVD that shows the kite in action - sweet action.  I don't know of anyone else that does that.
One of Prism's direct competitors, New Tech, at least used to do that as part of the Big Bang package. HQ/InVento have in the past.

Quote from: The Boss
if you guys can't keep it civil and constructive take it elsewhere.
Indeedy.

Mike.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Kantaxel on July 18, 2009, 01:21 AM
Once a troll always a troll ... if you guys can't keep it civil and constructive take it elsewhere.

Golly guys....do ya have to take out all the evidence so quick?  I mean, I mean.........I was just sitting there on the group W bench gettin' ready for work and when I checked back to see if there was a second foul the provacateurs had already fouled out.  Did they really have a total of five?? >:(

Carry on :-*

Jim


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: UPNET on July 18, 2009, 08:19 AM
 
If someone doesn't or can't appreciate the value of workmanship and craft for itself then let them stick to their production line offerings.


That says it all.   ;D



Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: John Welden on July 18, 2009, 10:07 AM
Once a troll always a troll ... if you guys can't keep it civil and constructive take it elsewhere.

Golly guys....do ya have to take out all the evidence so quick?  I mean, I mean.........I was just sitting there on the group W bench gettin' ready for work and when I checked back to see if there was a second foul the provacateurs had already fouled out.  Did they really have a total of five?? >:(

Carry on :-*

Jim

I always foul out quickly.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: RobB on July 18, 2009, 10:23 AM
Once a troll always a troll ... if you guys can't keep it civil and constructive take it elsewhere.

Golly guys....do ya have to take out all the evidence so quick?  I mean, I mean.........I was just sitting there on the group W bench gettin' ready for work and when I checked back to see if there was a second foul the provacateurs had already fouled out.  Did they really have a total of five?? >:(

Carry on :-*

Jim

Now what were you sitting there for ? Littering ?  :D


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Steve Hall on July 18, 2009, 10:26 AM
Quote
I always foul out quickly.
John is our Bubba Wells (Google it)


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Kitemac on July 18, 2009, 01:16 PM
Just returning from the Liberty State Park kite festival I did see many different makes of kites.  One make did track very nicely with pilots of different calibers.  That was the Blue Moon kite.

Maybe you do get what you pay for.



Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: mikenchico on July 18, 2009, 02:11 PM
I love my boutique kites, but I also enjoy mid range, mass produced kites and look forward to getting a test drive on them, some I have purchased without a test. They all have their place and market. Some of my mass produced kites rank right up there with my boutique kites as far as which bag they ride in. Some have received one or two flies and have been relegated to the "D" bag.

I personally take great pleasure in those boutique kites (or any other fine quality product), putting them together, breaking them down, nothing else has the fit & finish like a Blue Moon Kite and I can justify the extra expense for that pleasure and to support an artisan I have great respect for.

If you're enjoying your E3 fly it proud, if your flying next to me I'll probably lay down my boutique kite ask to give it a go since I've not flown one yet, of course you'll be welcome to grab my lines in return. If it provides a flying experience I enjoy or fills a niche my current kites are missing I'll likely purchase one for my bag.







Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Allen Carter on July 18, 2009, 03:31 PM
Just returning from the Liberty State Park kite festival I did see many different makes of kites.  One make did track very nicely with pilots of different calibers.  That was the Blue Moon kite.

Maybe you do get what you pay for.



In the case of the Blue Moon Muse, you get more than you pay for. Best deal in high end kites by a long shot.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Kantaxel on July 18, 2009, 03:50 PM
Once a troll always a troll ... if you guys can't keep it civil and constructive take it elsewhere.

Golly guys....do ya have to take out all the evidence so quick?  I mean, I mean.........I was just sitting there on the group W bench gettin' ready for work and when I checked back to see if there was a second foul the provacateurs had already fouled out.  Did they really have a total of five?? >:(

Carry on :-*

Jim

Now what were you sitting there for ? Littering ?  :D

Well he (insert nice policeman) said I was pandering............do you know what that is??

I don't.  But I do have to clean up the local dump, someday ;)


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Dave a on July 18, 2009, 04:39 PM
If you're enjoying your E3 fly it proud, if your flying next to me I'll probably lay down my boutique kite ask to give it a go since I've not flown one yet, of course you'll be welcome to grab my lines in return. If it provides a flying experience I enjoy or fills a niche my current kites are missing I'll likely purchase one for my bag.

Well said.

And if i see the word "artisan" again on this forum im gonna puke

oops, spelling corrected  ;D


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Jared on July 18, 2009, 05:23 PM

And if i see the word "artisian" again on this forum im gonna puke

Why?  Have we been misusing it?  Does it actually mean edible hat?


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: Beachbum on July 18, 2009, 05:26 PM
*ralf!*


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: zippy8 on July 24, 2009, 04:35 AM
There is, of course, a further reason to choose the artisan :P over the manufacturer. Allow me to paint the scene for you:-

let us say that you try Prism's E3 and you are transported to a higher plane of kiteflying joy. It is what you've been waiting for. Your prayers are answered. The search is over. You've found Your Perfect Kite™ (and I'm prepared to accept that this scenario could happen, given an infinite universe).

What happens when the wind drops a little to below the E3's claimed 3mph minimum wind speed (and I think we all know about the credibility of kite makers' wind speed claims) ? Is there an E3 UL or E3 SUL to keep you happy ? Is there likely to be ? Doesn't seem like it.

What if the wind howls on to above... 25mph max. wind ?!?!? C'mon Prism, be serious. Anyhoooo..... is there a vented E3 to be had ? There is not.

What if you'd like a custom colour scheme or even some individual graphics to set you apart from every other yahoo who clicked on the Buy It Now button on eBay ? Unless you get a Berkeley-edition, no dice.

Would you like the kite even more if it were pimped and polished with some of those fairy-dust showered Aerostuff spars ? Not from the factory I suspect.

And so... for those of us that make this our hobby and for whom these sorts of options (even if we don't make use of them) are important, then the mass-produced kites simply will not do. I don't think this makes them bad, just aimed at someone else.

Mike.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: nosedive on July 24, 2009, 06:53 AM
interesting!  is is like music really, when you think about it, ..it's all personal opinion!  Like, the way shoes, or jeans fit, or a hat.  What golf clubs are better? The list goes on and on....and on and on.

I've been lucky enough to live 5 minutes from Jon Trennepoh's place,...say no more!  ;)   Spent many hours in his shop 'shooting the breeze' (no pun)....great guy, ....great kites! (And yes, ..even his Premier made, JT designed kites are nice too)    So, ...I'm a little partial to Skyburner as he's right down the road from me, but still ....

I can certainly appreciate Blue Moon, etc, etc,....it's all what strikes you, or "tickles your fancy" sotospeak.

Fly to the limits YOU want to fly to....set your OWN limits, ...get the kite YOU want, ...and enjoy!  ;D


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: anOldMan on July 24, 2009, 02:31 PM
To both Zippy8 and Nosedive a very big "Thumbs UP"...


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: RobB on July 24, 2009, 04:30 PM
I never knew about Blue Moon, Benson, STX etc. until I visited this forum.  What makes these high end kites better than a Prism E3?  I fully expect quality of construction to be better but do they actually fly better?

I thought the E3 was the ultimate end point for my hobby but want to understand why others have made different choices.
Hey KM...
It's just important that you get out and fly. And enjoy what you're flying. I fly some of my kites because I like the way they look. I fly some of them because I like the way they fly. The E3 is a very capable kite that will take you a long way. If it's anything like the rest of Prism's kites, it should be very durable, too.
~Rob.


Title: Re: Prism E3 vs. Other High End Board Favorite Kites
Post by: icenum on January 13, 2010, 10:01 AM
Good kites that excel in percision as well as freestyle capability is hard to find, L'atelier-R-Sky-Blue Moon-Machine-Akuji-Skymaster-all share similarities but all very different.
Akuji is a moster trick kite
R-Sky-Does both right kite
Machine-Only flew one never owned are good at both
Blue Moon-Excellent at both
Skymaster-$$ excellent at both
L'atelier-Both well rounded categories
Oversteer something I don't care for much....You do not have to spend a lot. Just flying best med here..