GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: thief on July 24, 2009, 04:30 AM



Title: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on July 24, 2009, 04:30 AM
there is a thread on FA with lots of pix:
Flying Wings Kites -- Aerobe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4lkH-rxLig#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

my favorite part is around 4.59 where there are a bunch of them flying on a beach....

pretty cool....
saw them at newport...fly quite well...did not try them indoors....
VERY Skateish (focus) but heavier with flying wings plastic fittings and a dyna kite nose.....

was told ~60$ or so....seemed a bit high to me but i still will want one.....

steve any idea of when????



Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe
Post by: ezme6 on July 24, 2009, 04:46 AM
pretty cool. I like the beach part too. A kite with a tail!


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe
Post by: bell on July 24, 2009, 06:47 AM
Aerobe design by Albert Chen, not Bell Chiu  :)

Quote
A kite with a tail!

Wingspan : 64" x 41" w/150" tail
Frame : 3mm Carbon
Sail : Ripstop Nylon
Wind : 0 ~ 20mph

Aerobe flying indoor
Flying Wings Kites - 2009 Aerobe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ5pFrsdj6Q#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

 :)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe
Post by: ezme6 on July 24, 2009, 09:54 AM
Aerobe design by Albert Chen, not Bell Chiu  :)

Quote
A kite with a tail!

Wingspan : 64" x 41" w/150" tail
Frame : 3mm Carbon
Sail : Ripstop Nylon
Wind : 0 ~ 20mph

Aerobe flying indoor
Flying Wings Kites - 2009 Aerobe ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ5pFrsdj6Q#lq-lq2-hq-vhq[/url])

 :)



GWTW going to sell these? I want a yellow one...:)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Steve Hall on July 25, 2009, 01:08 PM
Best I can determine these are only being sold in Japan and Taiwan.  I have messages in to the folks at Flying Wings and will report back (if and when I get a response).

Just guessing here but based on what I've seen these might retail in the $100 range.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: ezme6 on July 25, 2009, 02:05 PM
Best I can determine these are only being sold in Japan and Taiwan.  I have messages in to the folks at Flying Wings and will report back (if and when I get a response).

Just guessing here but based on what I've seen these might retail in the $100 range.


Might as well get a Manta if a Hundred bucks.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: RobB on July 25, 2009, 02:14 PM
Reminds me of my first kite, a Gayla Bat kite back in the 70s. Too bad it doesn't have the bloodshot eyes...

$100 ?  ???


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: normofthenorth on July 26, 2009, 10:49 AM
I wonder if it has an adjustable weight pocket, like the Focus Kites Skate. In the videos, some of the shots make the kite look more nose-weighted than others. In the indoor shots, it doesn't look much heavier than the Skate, and a bit more nose-light -- like maybe HALF a quarter in the nose pocket of the Skate?

It also seems happier to do turn-away loops than my Skate, though I may just need more flying time. That move looks more like the Horvath kites (Urban Ninja, etc.), and the 61/49.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: EBGB on July 26, 2009, 05:03 PM
There may be weights involved in the videos, but there's a different flying style at work too.
The pilot, particulary in the second video, is keeping a little tension on the line as the kite is flying away in a glide, keeping the nose down. Give it complete slack and the nose will rise and the kite will stall.

The skate, without weights, is like that. With weights it is a true glider - the center of gravity is in front of the center of lift.

Neither style/setup is wrong, just different.

The Aerobe does seem to turn a little better. I'd chalk that up to a stiffer spreader or maybe a more foreward front bridle line.
 


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: bell on July 26, 2009, 07:56 PM
Aerobe in green island

Aerobe in green island (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVZhCA1aECM#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

 :)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: layangman on July 26, 2009, 10:11 PM
I truly enjoyed flying the Aerobe  :P
I call it the windless wonder!


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: ezme6 on July 27, 2009, 05:06 AM
You can get them in Japan, saw the website in Toyko, different vids too



Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Steve Hall on July 27, 2009, 12:07 PM
I'll have all the details up this afternoon but for now ...
Available late August.
Comes with line and 150 ft. tail..
Colors: Yellow, Purple, Blue
$50.00 with free Priority Mail shipping (US addresses)



Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: DWayne on July 27, 2009, 12:46 PM
I'll have all the details up this afternoon but for now ...
Available late August.
Comes with line and 150 ft. tail..
Colors: Yellow, Purple, Blue
$50.00 with free Priority Mail shipping (US addresses)



I'll take a purple one.  8)

Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: ezme6 on July 27, 2009, 12:58 PM
make mine yellow and a purple one @$50 each

they are going for $130 in Toyko.... each


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Steve Hall on July 27, 2009, 01:06 PM
Saw that and the offer in Taiwan ... so that is where my $100 estimate came from.  Must say I am pleasantly surprised with the pricing.

Got a bit more info posted HERE (http://gwtw-kites.typepad.com/news/).

(http://gwtw-kites.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8347b97c569e20115714862fe970c-pi)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: ezme6 on July 27, 2009, 03:22 PM
I can already say "I'm going to hate to wait till the end of August"


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: bell on July 27, 2009, 04:44 PM
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3747268653_4f32ec0612.jpg)

Some photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyingbox/sets/72157620813836580/show/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyingbox/sets/72157620813836580/show/)

 :)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: bell on July 28, 2009, 06:09 AM
Sweet home video from TAIWAN
Dennis's family time

Aerobe kids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKnC0qUOfY4#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)


 :)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: chilese on July 28, 2009, 08:54 AM
Is the music a remake of "Flying Purple People Eater"?


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on July 28, 2009, 07:04 PM

 Just so we round out the colors.............Pm sent on a blue one, Steve ;)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on September 02, 2009, 10:01 AM
Aerobe in green island

Aerobe in green island ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVZhCA1aECM#lq-lq2-hq-vhq[/url])

 :)


watching this video again  (Aerobe in Green island Bell posted it on the first page of this thread) and i amazed at HOW STABLE the thing is on the back of the boat whipping along.......astonishing...cannot wait to get mine to play with!!!!!


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Sonnenwind on September 03, 2009, 12:55 AM
Did you realize that most of the videos are slow motion? Especially the indoor video gives wrong impressions IMHO.

I ask myself if the Aerobe has the same indoor / low wind performance as a Skate from Focus Kites or the Horvath designs (Zero 1.1; Urban Ninja, Hybrid).

Malte


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on September 03, 2009, 03:44 AM
yes...same genre of kites....but the Aerobe is able to take more winds outdoors than those other kites (see the above video).....
it will not glide as well as a skate....or look as impressive as a 61/49....or ____________ like a Urban ninja (fill in your blank since i have not flown one)......or be as durable as a Bird'x......but...at this price it is a good kite with lots of abilities.....


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Cerfs-volantstylistes on September 16, 2009, 09:24 AM
Nice kite. I like the shape.

For those who bought one, did you got to fly it indoor ?


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: normofthenorth on September 16, 2009, 11:25 AM
I think the boat in the Green Island video is flying along in the same direction as the wind. There's more (tail-)wind up a bit where the kite is flying than down at deck level, where the flag is whipping pretty hard.

If the actual wind were calm and the kite flying behind a boat going that fast, the tail would be virtually horizontal, and the kite would be flying higher, almost horizontal.

(That's my story, and I'm sticking with it!)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: farfennoogen on September 16, 2009, 07:55 PM
I got mine to fly indoors and took it out with the winds up fly's like a champ ...

 I'm really impressed and might end up ordering another one in a different color  8)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on September 17, 2009, 02:09 AM
We got ours yesterday and gotta admit it's a pretty thing................it's a little bigger than we imagined and I bridle flew it around the living room a bit.............Raining outside, ya had to figure THAT!!

You can see how floaty it is when it gets horizontal to the deck.........gonna be a fun little toy, for sure. ;)

im



Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: steve.hobart on September 17, 2009, 02:32 AM
these are a great kite. Very versatile and they fly really well. Also pretty good quality.

I have to buy another as my 5 year old doesn't get much of a turn of his kite (dad always has it!!)

Really worth purchasing !

cheers

steve


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on September 17, 2009, 05:20 PM
I got mine to fly indoors and took it out with the winds up fly's like a champ ...

 I'm really impressed and might end up ordering another one in a different color  8)

Your thoughts on tuning with the prussic knot on the bridle?  Just got a chance to fly it in 0 wind with the prussic attached just the way it came. (about three inches up from the attach point)......It was different but really floaty on about 12 ft of line, and wondering if you or anyone has an opinion.

thanks,
Jim


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: DWayne on September 17, 2009, 06:12 PM
My opinion is, you should probably learn to fly it the way it was designed before you try to improve it. After all, the designer probably spent more than a few minutes flying it before he put the tow point where it is.  ;)


Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on September 17, 2009, 06:45 PM
My opinion is, you should probably learn to fly it the way it was designed before you try to improve it. After all, the designer probably spent more than a few minutes flying it before he put the tow point where it is.  ;)

I agree..................I don't have ANY experience flying kites like this.  My point was the Prussic knot was loose, and I was wondering, more or less, if the three inches was the point that seemed the average with the other folks that have gotten these kites.  I guess I wasn't explaining that point well, at all.  I have since put another 10 min. on the kite and am starting to get a bit of a grasp.

thanx,
Jim


Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: DWayne on September 17, 2009, 07:36 PM
Sorry, my bad.
Mine is exactly 3" from the attachment to the prussic knot.


Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: tonycarl60 on September 17, 2009, 09:34 PM
Mine doesn't have a true prussic knot, it seems to be a larks head knot that catches an overhand knot tied on the upper bridle half. I tied two more overhand knots, 1 about a half inch above the current knot and one a half inch below the current knot.  I also taped a quarter to the nose for a better glide. I use my Aerobe only out doors. 


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on September 18, 2009, 12:16 AM
Sorry, my bad.
Mine is exactly 3" from the attachment to the prussic knot.


Denny

Thanks Denny..I'm glad it was close to where it shoud be.......the kite is gettin easier to fly after watching the vid again and getting a bit of the feel.

Ours has a real prussic and holds where you put it.......There are
no other knots on the bridle except where they attach to the spine waaaay too close in to the sail. ::)

Jim


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Dano on September 18, 2009, 08:12 AM
Jim,

3" is only the tow point length.

16" from back of spine, and 5" to front spine. that's where my tow point is tied.
(factory setting)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on September 18, 2009, 08:26 AM
Jim,

3" is only the tow point length.

16" from back of spine, and 5" to front spine. that's where my tow point is tied.
(factory setting)


Dano,
You got that right..............I just checked your measurements with our bluebat and we were off (high) 1/8 of an inch..................I was close when I tightened up the prussic.  Also I found a miniscule little blue ink spot right on the money, so I guess you could say the sweet spot is marked. ;D

Awesome kite.....I wish it wasn't wet from the dew or I'd stay up an hour or so and fly some more :-\

thanks,
Jim

PS: Too bad the promotion is over :-[  I shoulda stayed true to the program and got her one in yellow 8).....We could fly pairs.............well, maybe ;D ???


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Dano on September 18, 2009, 08:34 AM
i havent even got a chance to fly mine yet, and i too wish i ordered another one.  :)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on September 18, 2009, 08:50 AM
A true bundle of fun for the money...............the downwind or no wind glide is just incredible........................I used to think the 3D was kinda fun on 12 ft lines just for giggles.........NO COMPARISON, my friend.

Jim


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: streamhawk on September 18, 2009, 10:12 AM
not having flown a glider before like a Skate or whatever, what is the upper wind limit for gliding, like, 2mph maybe?


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: DWayne on September 18, 2009, 12:02 PM
I was flying mine this morning in 3 to 4 mph at the end. The glides at that speed can burn a bit.  :o
But what fun.
I was completely wore out when I stopped.


Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Kantaxel on September 18, 2009, 04:16 PM
But what fun.
I was completely wore out when I stopped.


Denny

Hence the name Aerobe?  (Aerobics ;) )

Too old ..can't go there :-[

Jim


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: DWayne on September 18, 2009, 05:15 PM

Hence the name Aerobe?  (Aerobics ;) )

Too old ..can't go there :-[

Jim

That thought did cross my mind this morning.  :D


Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: DWayne on September 20, 2009, 03:06 PM
I tied two more overhand knots, 1 about a half inch above the current knot and one a half inch below the current knot.  I also taped a quarter to the nose for a better glide. I use my Aerobe only out doors. 

Any chance of doing a little video so we can see what your mods have done for (or to) it?


Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: mikenchico on September 21, 2009, 01:51 PM
I tied two more overhand knots, 1 about a half inch above the current knot and one a half inch below the current knot.  I also taped a quarter to the nose for a better glide. I use my Aerobe only out doors. 

Any chance of doing a little video so we can see what your mods have done for (or to) it?


Denny

Or at least explain what effect they've had, what changes do lengthening and shortening the bridle have?

Was that a silver, copper or zinc quarter, there's a weight difference.

Out of curiosity I did lay a quarter (copper core, 5.7 grams) on my nose indoors and tested the glide with no line, in a short glide it was about the right weight if you wanted an unattended glide, how about with 5 grams (a nickle, that's been a constant so far)? How does the weight effect static flight?

Anybody tried a reverse turbo bridle yet? <insert tongue in cheek smiley here>  ;)



Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Dano on September 21, 2009, 09:41 PM
Was that a silver, copper or zinc quarter, there's a weight difference.

Are you serious? <insert tongue in cheek smiley here>  ;)





Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: DWayne on September 22, 2009, 06:10 AM
Was that a silver, copper or zinc quarter, there's a weight difference.

Are you serious? <insert tongue in cheek smiley here>  ;)





I think he is.
The pre Federal Reserve ripoff quarters were 6.125 gms of silver.
The latest edition is 5 gms of zinc.
Still wondering why your dollar has no value?  :D


Denny


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: mikenchico on September 22, 2009, 02:41 PM
Yep over a gram difference

  • Silver - 6.125 grams - worth $3.60
  • Copper Clad - 5.7 grams - worth 3.7 cents with the silver cladding, 3.6 cents nickle clad
  • Zinc - 5 grams - worth 9/10ths of one cent

Nobody going to call me on the reverse turbo bridle remark?  :D 

Although that did get me to thinking about an active bridle on my own design, it just might work, really, I can see it helping with pitch based stunts, seriously.

I'll leave Albert Chen's design pretty much as he designed it though.





Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: WinterDaze on September 25, 2009, 02:23 AM
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd186/Witnessonly/AerobeMontage.jpg)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: WinterDaze on September 25, 2009, 03:18 AM
I have a question for the SLK'ers and Aerobe owners....

On the bridle there are 4 knots (minus the tow point), default is at the 'shallowest' setting, any tips on were best to exploit the other 3 knots?

Cheers

WD


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: farfennoogen on September 27, 2009, 07:47 PM
can you take a picture WinterDaze ? My aerobie only came with one knot in the bridal and the tow point larks headed onto the knot on the bridal ... so a picture would be worth a thousand words ...


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: WinterDaze on September 27, 2009, 09:06 PM
Albert himself just sent me an explanation, it would appear they were from an early production run, in my bridle there were 3 extra knots located towards the tow point 7 cm's further down and then at 3 cm intervals. It looks like the first knot is the place to leave it, and my experience concurs with this conclusion. It sounds like FlyingWings has decided this is the best place for the tow point to be fixed at.

'farfennoogen' thanks for following up on this for me, looks like everyone else got the 'final' and resolved product.  8)


Regards,


WD


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: farfennoogen on September 27, 2009, 11:06 PM
glad to hear you got it figured out WinterDaze  :)

 sounds like you got one of the first ones then  :o very cool  8)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on October 06, 2009, 05:43 AM
okay..got mine last night...spent about 45 minutes flying in different conditions this morning....hmmm

overall a good kite for the money....i would comfortably tell anyone looking for a higher quality (than plastic) single line kite to go for it...it does fly in all sorts of winds and is a ready to go packet.

a change:
needed to go are those metal clips on the ends of the tail....i am just going to make small pigtails on the wingtip loops and then larkshead the tail pigtail onto that...simpler...and NO METAL involved....
i have worrying thoughts about someone flying the tail off the spine with the clip trailing along behind it grabbing hair or trees etc and causing damage....

flying the bugger:
interesting...i read a few times that in no/sul wind you need to keep constant tension on the line or the kite flips out...and sure enough it does....seems that there is a bit of weight in the dihedral and the nose that is forward of the balance point and that causes any slackline time for the kite to just plummet....this is also probably why the bridle is sooooo short.....keeping everything taught....

flys very well behaved with its tail on...a nice thing...and it is a joy to fly in lighter winds once you get the nag of the slack issue......

on a side note i was not happy to find that my flying line was cut and tied off very badly when Flying Wings went out of the way to make certain that the line was tide to the winder at the end...
and it does need about an inch wider bag to get the line is easier.....

Steve: do you have spare noses and dihedrals from FW for this?????


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: ezme6 on October 06, 2009, 07:42 AM
For the price it is a great buy, for adults or children. I am 100% happy with my two. 8)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on October 06, 2009, 07:50 AM
For the price it is a great buy, for adults or children. I am 100% happy with my two. 8)
yeah..i am probably going to need to get a second one..............


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on October 06, 2009, 07:53 AM
another thing...the line...well if you need bridle line for a Flying Wing kite and you have an Aerobe you have a bucnh of it....it is sort of rough on the fingers but the diameter is big enough for me for a good pinch while flying....
i will keep using this stuff until i leave it somewhere by accident (or start needing bridle line)

also the line needs a swivel in it!!!! this stuff kinks up great!!!!


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: ezme6 on October 06, 2009, 03:16 PM
for sure a swivel....kinky... :D. I have been using an old spool of #50 on a halo winder. So far no probs except kinks


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: UPNET on October 06, 2009, 04:08 PM
Well...if SHE loves it.....so will you.









[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: normofthenorth on October 07, 2009, 10:04 AM
flying the bugger:
interesting...i read a few times that in no/sul wind you need to keep constant tension on the line or the kite flips out...and sure enough it does....seems that there is a bit of weight in the dihedral and the nose that is forward of the balance point and that causes any slackline time for the kite to just plummet....

The issue of weight and balance point (CoG) is interesting. Any kite that can glide will have a tendency to do that in lulls. For the Aerobe to be a "perfect" glider, I suspect it would need MORE weight in the nose, since it now tends to dive and stall and dive and stall, unless you apply a little line tension to hold the nose down a smidge. A little nose weight would probably do the same thing -- though the extreme curve/bow in the spine would also tend to make a kite dive and stall.

A propos, my Aerobe lost its tail "Dorsal cap", and the spine tensioner came undone, and I'm trying to figure out how much tension I want to put on. The way I did it, it seems to fly OK, but there are a few tension pleats in the sail, and the curvature looks a smidge more extreme than on the photos in the instruction flier. Can somebody with an unmodified Aerobe give me a measurement of the curvature or "draft" of the spine, or some other way to get it right?

Finally, I was flying my Aerobe with the Toronto Kite Fliers last Sunday in light but gust-shifty winds, and there were around 4 or 5 other Aerobes in the air for some of the time, mostly owned by Gary Mark, aka torontokitefliers and http://www.blueskykites.ca/. (http://www.blueskykites.ca/.) All without tails. Mine seemed to stay in the longest in the lulls and needed the least tending.

We got some rain, so I put the kite in the car fully assembled, then took it in the house to dry out and replace the tail end cap. When I looked at it later, I noticed that I'd assembled it with the molded plastic nose cap on BACKWARDS! WTF?!? ::) :-X ;)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on October 07, 2009, 12:07 PM
flying the bugger:
interesting...i read a few times that in no/sul wind you need to keep constant tension on the line or the kite flips out...and sure enough it does....seems that there is a bit of weight in the dihedral and the nose that is forward of the balance point and that causes any slackline time for the kite to just plummet....
The issue of weight and balance point (CoG) is interesting. Any kite that can glide will have a tendency to do that in lulls. For the Aerobe to be a "perfect" glider, I suspect it would need MORE weight in the nose, since it now tends to dive and stall and dive and stall, unless you apply a little line tension to hold the nose down a smidge. A little nose weight would probably do the same thing -- though the extreme curve/bow in the spine would also tend to make a kite dive and stall.
I would love to see what you can learn by adding weight Norm! go for it!

when i am referring to gliding i am meaning untensioned/unattended glide something that i doubt that the Aerobe can do in its present stock state...
the reason that i say that it is too nose heavy is because if you release the tension on the line what happens the nose drops suddenly....adding more weight will not help that out in my view....
i bet you can even do yoyos with this kite with a bit of tail on the wingtips!!!!should roll right up easily enough!!!getting it to unroll is a different matter....


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Moe on October 07, 2009, 12:51 PM
re: the stock tension...  I'm not sure if there actually *is* one.  When I assembled mine for the first time, I unhooked the tail cap and de-tensioned the spine as others had suggested here (made a quick attempt at assembling it as-is, and decided to take the safer route).  After putting it all together, I don't think it would have been physically possible to assemble the kite with the 'stock' tension.  The nose piece sat a good inch forward from the leading edges, there wasn't enough room in the leading edge pockets for the spars to bend that much and there was absolutely no way they'd fit together.  I would have had to rip the fabric to get it assembled.  And then, when re-tensioning the spine, even though it was pulled tight, it was *still* noticeably less tensioned than when the kit came out of the bag.

I wouldn't really be shocked if the 'stock' tension was basically just a random assembly thing more than an intentional factory setting.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: normofthenorth on October 07, 2009, 07:23 PM
There's almost no limit to how "tense" and curved you can make it if you assemble it the way the "manual" says, i.e., tensioning the spine while the leading edges are OUT of the nose (that makes it EASY!), then inserting them, then the spreaders.

And thief, I'm sticking to my guns on the light vs. heavy nose thing. Ever had a glider that flies like the Aerobe with no line tension? The solution is either to add nose weight, subtract tail weight, or add "down" elevator. This sure seems the same to me.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on October 08, 2009, 06:36 AM
And thief, I'm sticking to my guns on the light vs. heavy nose thing. Ever had a glider that flies like the Aerobe with no line tension? The solution is either to add nose weight, subtract tail weight, or add "down" elevator. This sure seems the same to me.

yep i have two kites that glide that way....the Jeff Howard glider i have and my Skate does....both of these kites have bigger/more square area sails....

i could be completely wrong but the way that i picture it in my mind is like a see saw....adding weight to one end gets it to drop...the opposite side goes up...so for a glide you need an almost horizontal flight....so you need something to counteract the non weighted side from going upwards....in the case of the Skate the sail has a big enough area to not let the back of the kite to go upwards.... (something where you can slide a paint stirring stick over the edge of a table and put a sheet of newspaper over the table end of the stick...then hit the stick sharply and the stick will break since the square area of the newspaper is holding down the stick.... http://www.stevespanglerscience.com/experiment/00000077 (http://www.stevespanglerscience.com/experiment/00000077))....
so by adding more weight to the nose will cause that end of the seesaw to drop out of the horizontal position it needs to glide...the square area of the Aerobe sail is not sufficient to get it to flatten out for a glide...also with the swept back wing and keel that will reduce the flat square area of the sail needed for that glide...

seriously Norm: go for it!!! i would love to see how it all works....all of the above stuff is in my mind...does not mean that it is correct or not (hell i am a biologist not an aeronautical engineer!)


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: tonycarl60 on October 08, 2009, 02:12 PM
I taped a quarter to the nose of my Aerobe and it seems to slow down the see-sawing stall and it has a better glide. I also use a 6 foot wand made out of 1/4 inch rev rods I had kicking around to which I taped a fishing pole type eye that I made out of a piece of coat hanger (you can also use a light fishing rod). I find the wand makes it a lot easier to fly the Aerobe without doing a lot of running around in low/no wind conditions. When the Aerobe is gliding it's now an glider/airplane and when it comes to airplane balance, slightly nose heavy is good for stability, tail heavy is bad unless you're doing tricks.  The balance or where the center of gravity is will determine how stable a wing is no matter what the size is.     


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: ezme6 on October 08, 2009, 02:15 PM
re: the stock tension...  I'm not sure if there actually *is* one.  When I assembled mine for the first time, I unhooked the tail cap and de-tensioned the spine as others had suggested here (made a quick attempt at assembling it as-is, and decided to take the safer route).  After putting it all together, I don't think it would have been physically possible to assemble the kite with the 'stock' tension.  The nose piece sat a good inch forward from the leading edges, there wasn't enough room in the leading edge pockets for the spars to bend that much and there was absolutely no way they'd fit together.  I would have had to rip the fabric to get it assembled.  And then, when re-tensioning the spine, even though it was pulled tight, it was *still* noticeably less tensioned than when the kit came out of the bag.

I wouldn't really be shocked if the 'stock' tension was basically just a random assembly thing more than an intentional factory setting.

You do not need to detension the spine to put it together or take it apart! Just bend the spine  some. Stick the end in your belly button, pull down to bend the spine, they go right in or out. 30 seconds max!


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: lylenc on October 08, 2009, 08:55 PM
You don't need to add nose weight or tail weight. You need to tune the sail shape for optimal glide. Loosen the spine tension so the spine is flatter (less curved) in order to smooth out the glide action to your flying preference.

If there is too much tension on the spine, there is too much "nose-up elevator." The increased curve of the spine makes the tail higher relative to nose. This pushes the tail down and nose up as air speed increases. The tail flops back up relative to the nose as air speed decreases. This instability starts the see-saw action as the glide speed slows and line tension changes (changing speed).



Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on October 09, 2009, 04:21 AM

You do not need to detension the spine to put it together or take it apart! Just bend the spine  some. Stick the end in your belly button, pull down to bend the spine, they go right in or out. 30 seconds max!

But.
but..
what if it gets stuck?????


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: thief on October 09, 2009, 04:29 AM
Lylenc: good thinking! 
had nto thought about the curvature too much and how it is involved in all of this....although i should have....i think that the Aerobe is designed to have a sizable curve in its spine so if you try to flatten it out a lot then it just will not be the same kite at all.....hmm..interesting!!!
out of the 50 or so Aerobes that sold -so darn fast- lets get some testing going on!!!!


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: lylenc on October 09, 2009, 06:49 AM
Spine curvature sets the angle of attack, similar to adjusting the nose angle by bridle change on a dual line kite. Adding the tail would add drag, and probably curvature if hooked to the spine, for a higher angle of attack and lower ride in the wind window.

It's the same as dual line flying's relative hand postions to control the attitude of the nose, aka to turn left or right. Even hands make the kite fly in the direction the nose is pointing. Aerobe curvature sets the direction the nose wants to fly for a set of wind conditions. If gliding indoor or low wind conditions is your goal, you need the curvature set flatter for level flight when there is minimal or no flying line tension.

PS: Adding flying line tension (pulling) curves the spine and makes the nose fly up until you lighten or stop your pull. If the spine is pre-tensioned too much, the spine will not un-flex enough to fly level when you stop pulling. Too much spine tension is like trying to fly a dual line kite straight with your hands offset - it ain't going to happen easily. 

Another way to think of curvature is dual line kite's standoff positioning. Change the standoff settings and you have different flight characteristics. Change the Aerobe curvature and you have different flight characteristics. Thus, you need to adjust according to your preferences and wind conditions.

Just One More:

Glider: Less curve

Single Line Kite: More curve


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: normofthenorth on October 09, 2009, 10:16 PM
So I'd like to have somebody stick a ruler or a tape-measure into the deepest part of the spine curve on a "stock" Aerobe, and sight straight from the nose to the tail, and read the ruler at that point.

I haven't done it to my kite yet, but I'm guessing I'm around 6" "depth", and I think that's on the high side. RSVP.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: Dano on October 10, 2009, 04:54 PM
About 42 1/4" nose-tail and about 4" deep.

The see-sawing is just too much for me in 0 wind.

I loved it with the 2-point tail in 1-3 mph wind today.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: normofthenorth on October 21, 2009, 01:26 PM
Thanks, Dano. I forget now what I measured mine at! But I think about 3/4 of the spine-bend I've got is built into the sail. So it will never be a flat-spined Focus-Kites Skate or Daryl Yeh's Zen Glider, even with no tension on the spine.


Title: Re: Bell's new kite Aerobe (designed by Albert Chen)
Post by: lylenc on October 25, 2009, 12:37 PM
I have two Aerobes. One glides better than the other, but both ended up with the same setting after I fiddled with them for best glide. If I hold the nose on the table and spine laying on the table, the tail end of the fabric is 8" off the table top.

One line seems to kink up worse than the other one, too. I flew them one after the other several times today and haven't figured out the differences between the two. The first one has a replacement spine that has a slightly larger diameter than the original. Maybe purple glides better than gold.  :)