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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Kitemac on August 09, 2009, 02:59 PM



Title: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Kitemac on August 09, 2009, 02:59 PM
Since the Muse is recommended so much I decided to look at the Blue Moon website and was a little confused on the line.

The Muse seems like entry level based on the Mantis.  No standoffs.  $229.  Often referred to as the best value for the money.

The "flagship" kite is the Mamba.  $279.  If you are going to save a bit more for the Muse why not save a bit longer and get the best in the line?  I gather the Muse is a better value but doesn't the $50 get you the top of the line?

The Mantis is also $279.  I would have expected the "flagship" kite to have the highest entry fee but it does not.   Sale design is the same as the Muse?  How does this differ from the Mamba?

Exile is middle of the line at $259.  Described as very neutral.  How does this stack up against the remaining line? 

Thanks for any clarifications.


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: rxburner on August 09, 2009, 03:21 PM
The Mamba is a large Ballet kite, while the Muse and Mantis are more trick oriented. I love my Muse, but the Exile is a better all around kite.
I am not sure where you got the "No Stand-Offs" from? the Muse stand-offs are not moveable like the Mantis. But is has them.
Rx


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: chilese on August 09, 2009, 03:40 PM
The Mamba is very responsive, needs only small hand inputs and will reward proper flying and trick technique with gorgeous flight and tricks.

However, the Mamba, like any elegant lady, doesn't reward sloppy technique. You will be scolded with wavy flight and tipwraps.

The Mamba is nimble, efficient and crisp. The taut sail will literally make a whip like cracking sound when a hard corner is done well. In Laurent Moll's hands, the Mamba did the very difficult Steps Down figure with room to spare. It was a visual and audio treat to watch and hear.

The Mamba also has the most versatile sail pattern IMHO. Here is the best looking Mamba. It is not mine. Many others have copied this sail pattern, but none look as good. Mine is the Yellowjacket next. The bird pattern is also a stunner.

Ken has made well over 5000 kites personally. I have the utmost respect for him and the kites he makes.

(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/9053/1093228609049870108S200x200Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1093228609049870108JpTVio) (http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/42198/2860986490049870108S200x200Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2860986490049870108ETBjVH) (http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/42318/1117949371049870108S200x200Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1117949371049870108TYnOlN)


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Gardner on August 09, 2009, 03:41 PM
The Mamba is the original design of the Blue Moon Kites lineup, which has been modified and developed of a period of nine or more years.  The kite is a beautiful preformer from which both the Mantis and the Exile evloved  The three designs, with the exception of the Muse, have vented and UL version.

Ken McNeil, the desgner and builder, is a one-man opration.  Until recently he wholesaled his kites to retailers across the US.  Since the recent depression hit, Ken apparently cut back his operation for his own reasons.  His kites are expertly and meticiliously constructed.  His work is a benchmark in the kite world.

You would do well to buy anyone of his kites.

Gardner


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: RobB on August 09, 2009, 05:48 PM
.  The kite is a beautiful preformer from which both the Mantis and the Exile evloved  The three designs, with the exception of the Muse, have vented and UL version.

You would do well to buy anyone of his kites.

Gardner
Is Ken making the vented Exile ? I heard mention of it on his website, but haven't heard that one was made yet. I'll be on that list...


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: JimB on August 09, 2009, 05:58 PM
People have been agitating for a vented Exile, myself included.

It appears that kmac may be considering it:

http://www.bluemoonfabrications.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=2.55&TOPIC_ID=449&#6895 (http://www.bluemoonfabrications.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=2.55&TOPIC_ID=449&#6895)



Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Schook on August 09, 2009, 08:32 PM
Mamba, Mantis, & Exile, are all different kites with different goals in mind.  I own and fly all of these kites.

Mamba is a great kite and my fav of all BMK kites.  Very solid feel and good precision on the lines.  As chilese said  "However, the Mamba, like any elegant lady, doesn't reward sloppy technique."  It is a very fun kite to fly when you get comfortable with it.  But if you are looking to do all the latest and greatest twisty-turny wrap-n-roll tricks, you may be better off looking at the other BMK kites. 

The Mantis is a great kite and very trick capable with some very good precision as well.  It is very adjustable with multiple standoff positions to tune to your desired flying tastes.  I have not flown the Muse but I believe it is based on the Mantis without the adjustable standoffs.

(I may flamed for this but) I dont like the Exile so much.  In my hands it is less precise as the Mantis and a bit less forgiving.  Still very tricky and maybe aimed more towards freestyle flying.  Lots of people love this kite, but I just haven't gotten comfortable with it.

As with any kite purchase, determining what your skill level is, what your flying goals are (fun, comps, tricks, or ballet), and budget, is the best place to start when choosing a new kite.

jim
Some of my Blue Moons:
(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/43709/2789121190097121842S200x200Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2789121190097121842dTHVjG) (http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/42397/2939535450097121842S200x200Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2939535450097121842ojTacE)
(http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/45101/2271726270097121842S200x200Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2271726270097121842pveOBt) (http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/5722/2479148260097121842S200x200Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2479148260097121842EOVZRo)


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: adx1592 on August 09, 2009, 09:15 PM
i agree with everything stated here. I, though, prefer the muse to the mantis. I think the muse is a bit more well behaved, and i cant really put my finger on why. I had two mantis's and didnt like them, so i sold them. The muses i have (i have both kinds) for some reason are my favorite kite right now. Im not the best to explain why I didnt like the mantis because to be honest i cant really put my finger on EXACTLY why. The Muse is extremely precise, and will do all the modern tricks. Commetes look great on it, and it loves to be on its back.

The exile is deffenantly a tricky little kite. Itll roll up and all that jazz- and like on kens site, it performs oldschool tricks aswell as the new stuff.

The Mamba is absolutely amazing. Because i flew a mamba (zach gordons) it prompted me to do a total bag overhaul to all, well all but about 4, bluemoon kites. and im not dissapointed with that change at all. very precisce, and as said, it wont hand out tricks unless they're executed well. I actully started learning the Commete on the mamba because i knew it wouldnt do it without the RIGHT imputs. and man did it help with learning it. same goes with setting the kite on its back at a certain angle to get it to multilazy. if its not right, the kite simply wont do it and theres nothing you can do but work with it. I took what the mamba taught me and applied it to every kite ive flown sence and my skills have skyrocketed.

heres some pics...
(http://thumb4.webshots.net/t/74/74/2/69/61/2196269610104062344blMlbA_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2196269610104062344blMlbA)  (http://thumb4.webshots.net/t/74/174/5/35/14/2552535140104062344XyHXRS_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2552535140104062344XyHXRS)  (http://thumb4.webshots.net/t/75/75/9/91/59/2041991590104062344FjdwWj_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2041991590104062344FjdwWj)  (http://thumb4.webshots.net/t/72/172/0/88/27/2940088270104062344cEFSIG_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2940088270104062344cEFSIG)


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: tpatter on August 09, 2009, 10:06 PM
The Exile rolls up more easily, but the Muse does as well if you throw on a couple of the barrel weights.  I just liked the overall feel of the Muse slightly better for everything but rollups, but they are for sure both sweet flying amazing kites.

I've flown the UL and Standard versions of both the Muse and Exile - and they are both exceptional kites - you can't go wrong with either decision.  They both have that smooth BMK kite feel - you can tell they are part of a family.



Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: kmac on August 10, 2009, 09:01 AM
Since the Muse is recommended so much I decided to look at the Blue Moon website and was a little confused on the line...

...The Mantis is also $279.  I would have expected the "flagship" kite to have the highest entry fee but it does not.

Pricing can be confusing, and honestly, from my perspective, a bit of a PITB.  For the most part, I price based on the time it takes me to make a kite and the materials that are in it.   It has nothing to do with the core performance of the kite or its place in the lineup.

Ken@BMK


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: kiten00b on August 10, 2009, 10:52 AM
The Muse isn't an entry level kite.
It's one of the best bang-for-buck values available.


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: kmac on August 10, 2009, 02:48 PM
I would have expected the "flagship" kite (Mamba) to have the highest entry fee but it does not...

Corrected, thanks.  ;)

Ken@BMK


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Kitemac on August 10, 2009, 03:46 PM
I would have expected the "flagship" kite (Mamba) to have the highest entry fee but it does not...

Corrected, thanks.  ;)

Ken@BMK

I thought this was a joke but the cost for the Mamba did go up ???.  Now no one will respond to my posts.  Does this mean I will loose access rights to the forum :'(?

I was very surprised by the large number of responses.  The BlueMoon owners are very loyal to the brand and everyone seems to have their own favorite and in some cases that may be the entire line.  It was also interesting to learn that Ken is a one man shop.  5000 kites seem like a big job for one man to make but at least the quality control is taken care of.

How many people can say they received two responses from Ken in one day with one changing his pricing structure.  At least I am famous for something.



Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2009, 04:06 PM
Quote
At least I am famous for something.
I think the word is "infamous".

 ;)


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Gamelord on August 10, 2009, 04:34 PM
Don't know if I would brag too much about that one...  ;D ;D

I think that the loyalty that you see from Blue Moon owners is not because of the brand name but more because of the quality and performance that the Blue Moon kites deliver.  That and the personalized contact you get from talking directly to the man that designs/cuts/sews/tests/packages and ships the kites that you are going to be purchasing.  You really can't get much more personal or custom than that.

The other reason for the loyalty and admiration is that Ken is a superb stand up and honorable guy that I too have the highest respect for as both a friend and a pilot.  His quality and design will make you want one of his kites for yourself, his friendship and personalization he puts into every one of his kites will make you want to cherish the kite as a piece of fine art.

Respect in the kite industry can't be purchased or borrowed, it must be earned and Ken has earned more than his fair share.

I too am a proud owner of a Blue Moon Kite(s).  My Ichaban is absolutely beautiful and my Moonie Exile is just awesome.  When I want to brag, those are the kites that come out of the bag. :)  Just wish my flying skills were as good as the kites. lol


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: kmac on August 10, 2009, 06:06 PM
...Ken has made well over 5000 kites personally...

Not completely accurate.  My personal number is somewhere north of 2000 kites over the last 18 years.  The balance was made by my staff of talented craftsmen that worked for me between '95 and '97. 8)

Ken@BMK


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: MtnFlyer on August 10, 2009, 07:24 PM
Quote
At least I am famous for something.
I think the word is "infamous".

 ;)

ROTFLMAO!!  :D  :D

If I didn't already have mine, I just might be thoroughly PO'd.  ;)  :D

I think Kent summed it up for me, too.

I too am a proud owner of a Blue Moon Kite(s).  My Ichaban is absolutely beautiful and my Moonie Exile is just awesome.  When I want to brag, those are the kites that come out of the bag. :)  Just wish my flying skills were as good as the kites. lol


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: chilese on August 10, 2009, 07:36 PM
Thanks for the clarification Ken.  ???

What's 2/5ths of utmost respect anyway?  ;)

The world's only known 3d photo of a Ken McNeill kite. This is the cross your eyes 3d, not the uncross your eyes kind. It took a couple of hours to figure out how to make.

(http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/45930/1111358178049870108S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1111358178049870108mhUSFk)


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: tpatter on August 10, 2009, 08:19 PM
Cool 3D picture!  Can you do this with most any kite picture?


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: ko on August 10, 2009, 09:01 PM
need help!! cannot seem to get my eyes uncrossed 


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: kmac on August 11, 2009, 08:51 AM
Just wanted to say thank you to the folks that have said such kind things.  It's been my honor to part so many of you from your hard-earned cash over the last 18 years.  ;)  It's been an "interesting" ride.  8)

Ken@BMK


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: DWayne on August 11, 2009, 09:08 AM
Thank you. I started flying an Exile after I'd been flying for 2 weeks. That kite has had a profound impact on the way I view everything from the way a kite is built to the way one flies. It took more abuse than any beginners kite should. And did it without a single failure of any kind. You set a standard not many are able to equal.

Denny


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: streamhawk on August 11, 2009, 10:41 AM
I'd rather part my hard earned to you Ken than elsewhere. World class quality kites at a fair price, now how can you beat that? Proud owner of a Exile slice standard and UL, great kites.

Bill


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: GEB on August 11, 2009, 11:43 AM
Kitemac,
Welcome to the world of Blue Moon kites. I have all the kites you listed here and I agree with what has been said about their excellent build quality, ruggedness and beautiful flight characteristics. Trying to classify any of Ken's kites as entry-level would be like saying you just purchased an entry level Ferrari. I learned to do tricks on the Exile, and while no kite is indestructible, this one comes pretty close. Any purchase from Ken is a good one and his customer service simply can't be beat.


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Sherman Myers on August 11, 2009, 04:01 PM
The world's only known 3d photo of a Ken McNeill kite. This is the cross your eyes 3d, not the uncross your eyes kind. It took a couple of hours to figure out how to make.

([url]http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/45930/1111358178049870108S600x600Q85.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1111358178049870108mhUSFk[/url])


Wasn't there another kiteflyer that was into 3D photography?   :D :P :o :D

How did you do it?


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: chilese on August 11, 2009, 04:42 PM
Photoshop, 3 hours of my life, examination of other 3D stereocards at antique shops and several cups of coffee. I had another one, but can't find it. It was a close-up of a kite wing. The wing itself was the 3D part of the photo.

Having a simple background helps.

Look closely at objects in the background compared to the kite. You will see the background has been canted a different amount in each photo while the kite is in the identical location in both photos. I wouldn't want to do it again. There's probably software that does it all automatically now.


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: John Welden on August 11, 2009, 05:08 PM
The mamba is a mega fun kite. Everyone should own at least two.

JW


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: obijuankenobe on August 12, 2009, 02:38 AM
I was intrigued by the 3D photo, as I had only done this with landscapes. 

Google gave me this link (http://www.neilcreek.com/blog/2008/03/21/how-to-take-3d-photos/), which also provides you with a link for free software to help you out.  I will try it out tonight, but it seems worth a look if any is interested.

obi


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: chilese on August 12, 2009, 11:06 AM
Good luck. Please post your results.

My 3D is done with a single photo. It's duplicated and then placed side-by side. After that, it's all Photoshop manipulation. The "cha-cha" method sounds a lot easier.  :)


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: mikenchico on August 12, 2009, 01:46 PM
Well I lose all focus when I try to cross my eyes, will you please provide a View-Master (http://www.vmresource.com/) ready disk?  ;)

For 3D work you could keep your eyes out on eBay for one of these View-Master Pesonal Stereo Camera's (http://www.vmresource.com/camera/camera.htm) There's a dozen or so listed today, plus a wide variety of others to choose from that are less expensive.



Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Gamelord on August 12, 2009, 06:17 PM
lol - i have a hard time viewing it too.  What I have found is that you cross your eyes until you see three images, then try and focus on the center image and it will appear to be 3D.  You will still see a haze of the other two outside images, just concentrate on the center one for a couple seconds.  Going full screen helps too.


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: Ace on August 13, 2009, 07:25 PM
Hah
I just figured it out, its pretty cool actually..... 8)


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: facesnorth on August 27, 2009, 07:44 PM
lol - i have a hard time viewing it too.  What I have found is that you cross your eyes until you see three images, then try and focus on the center image and it will appear to be 3D.  You will still see a haze of the other two outside images, just concentrate on the center one for a couple seconds.  Going full screen helps too.

This worked for me.  Neat trick.  Brings the kite to life.


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: glk47 on August 31, 2009, 06:43 AM
My observation is that this results in a "two plane" image: the kite as a flat image in the foreground, and everything else as a flat image in the background. Is that an accurate description?

Larry


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: chilese on August 31, 2009, 10:31 AM
No, that is not correct for this picture.
Although, a 3D photo can be done to look like you describe.

In my 3D photo the kite is, as you describe, on a vertical plane.

However,

The background is on a plane which is tilted away from the viewer. In this way, the lower background is closer to the observer, while the top is furthest away. It merely depends on which way the 2 background images are canted to change the direction of angled background.


Title: Re: Blue Moon Kite Clarification
Post by: normofthenorth on August 31, 2009, 12:52 PM
But I think it's still "two plane" in the sense that the background is flat. There's no 3D angle between the horizontal ground and the mountains, for example.

Still pretty nifty!