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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Poopy_Gnome on August 18, 2009, 02:47 PM



Title: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: Poopy_Gnome on August 18, 2009, 02:47 PM
I'm looking for a full sized trickable kite that can fly in lower winds (1-5mph). 

I was planning to get a Prism Quantum Pro SUL (I have a QPro std and really like it) but thought I would ask around and see what my options are in that price range.


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: asburyparkjohn on August 18, 2009, 03:19 PM
Since you got the Standard you should get the QPRO-SUL in my opinion - the two should compliment each other nicely in your flying sessions. The only problem I have had with the QPRO-SUL is that the bridle lines coming off the center-T wear out quick probably because of the aluminum center-T fixture. As far as I know Prism as of yet has not really addressed this problem. Additionally - the lower spreader if flown too high in the wind (say 7mph or more) will splinter quite easily so get a back-up. It shows no mercy if you get lazy in needing to switch to the Standard if the wind picks up outside its advertised range. I have not flown the Fearless SUL and having said that I never flown a SUL SUPERIOR to the QPRO-SUL. Equal yes - like the SD-SUL.


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: ezme6 on August 18, 2009, 03:25 PM
If you want to save some $$ get the fearless sul and you won't ever need to buy another sul 8)


Here we go again...


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: asburyparkjohn on August 18, 2009, 03:35 PM
Not from me ...  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: tpatter on August 18, 2009, 03:45 PM
Not sure what the SULs go for - is the price range around $350?

If you like the QPro std then that likely bodes well for your liking the QPro SUL.  Depends on what you are looking to do with it.  IMO, the QPro SUL is nice, but does not go all that low wind-wise and does not like to rollup without weight (and even then not all that eagerly, but it 2 pops easily with no weight at all).  I've got friends who love theirs for precision, predictability, and speed control.

How about a Talon UL (I've never flown one, but everyone seems to like them).  Probably about the same cost and you get one of the current favorites out there.  

My favorite is the Fearless SUL, but it will cost you a bit more than the QPro.





Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: Francois on August 18, 2009, 03:49 PM
Ul or SUL...


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: adx1592 on August 18, 2009, 04:46 PM
im not sure about this, but what about the Cosmic TC ghost?
never flown one, but thats another option as far as a high-end kite goes.


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: rxburner on August 18, 2009, 08:31 PM
If you are flying in smooth coastal winds, I would suggest the Fearless Light or the Sea Devil Ultra Light.
For inland winds go for the Fearless SUL, I like to use a 3PT lower spreader for a little more drive.
Rx


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: turbo23 on August 18, 2009, 11:09 PM
The ghost is a very good kite. It will hold a very good line, and with the correct inputs will do almost anything.


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: jaybett on August 19, 2009, 02:08 AM
The Quantum Pro SUL is an excellent kite. If you are enjoying the Standard, the SUL would be a nice addition to your bag.

The master of low wind kites, is Ken McNeil with Blue Moon Kites. His standards fly in UL winds, and his UL's fly in SUL winds. It is nice having a kite with the mass of a UL, to trick in low winds. The Exile and Muse are hard kites to beat for the money.

Jay


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: steve.hobart on August 19, 2009, 03:05 AM
I second Jay's view. I have an Exile UL which replaced my QPro SUL.

The Exile UL is a true SUL and flys as low (if not lower) than the QPro SUL - and is easier to trick wrt pitch tricks.

cheers

steve


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: stapp59 on August 19, 2009, 06:23 PM
I second Jay's view. I have an Exile UL which replaced my QPro SUL.

The Exile UL is a true SUL and flys as low (if not lower) than the QPro SUL - and is easier to trick wrt pitch tricks.

If you really want to see the Exile UL fly in low winds, swap out the LEs and LSs with 2pts.  Lower the bridle 1/4" from shipped position, move outer standoffs to the outer holes, and use one weight in the spine.  Try 50#x65' (or longer) lines.  Very nice is whisper winds, good feedback, tight turn radius, no oversteer.  Tricks pretty well for a 7.3 oz kite.  Will JL, etc. Be careful with groundwork, those 2pts shatter pretty easily  ::)  Over 4 use 3pt LSs and raise the bridle a little.  Over 6 put it away and fly the std.  8)


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: steve.hobart on August 20, 2009, 03:44 AM
I gotta try this!


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: RobB on August 20, 2009, 04:30 AM
Wow, I haven't found any trouble flying my Exile UL in super-low winds as it is. OK, it takes a little footwork when the wind lulls to nothing, but once it picks back up to 1 or 2, it just flies. I only fly mine with 1 weight, didn't like it with 2. I have a set of Response 12s, I think they're close to 2 pts ? Would I notice any benefit from just switching the LS ? Or do I need to swap all 6 sticks to really see a difference ? The only kites I have that are easier to fly in next to no wind is the Ozone and the NikNak. And the Exile UL comes close to them now, should I expect it to do as well as those, but be able to trick better ? It almost has me thinking it would be considered a SSUL. Now I have to find another Exile UL to mess around with, I'm not going to mess up my Moonie...

As far as the QPro SUL... it was a waste of $$$ for me, it just sits in the closet. Lead balloon... I have a number of UL and SUL kites that I like better, an it soulds like I would like the Talon UL and DS UL better, too.

~Rob.


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: stapp59 on August 20, 2009, 06:25 AM
Wow, I haven't found any trouble flying my Exile UL in super-low winds as it is. OK, it takes a little footwork when the wind lulls to nothing, but once it picks back up to 1 or 2, it just flies. I only fly mine with 1 weight, didn't like it with 2. I have a set of Response 12s, I think they're close to 2 pts ? Would I notice any benefit from just switching the LS ? Or do I need to swap all 6 sticks to really see a difference ? The only kites I have that are easier to fly in next to no wind is the Ozone and the NikNak. And the Exile UL comes close to them now, should I expect it to do as well as those, but be able to trick better ? It almost has me thinking it would be considered a SSUL. Now I have to find another Exile UL to mess around with, I'm not going to mess up my Moonie...

Good questions.  We're starting to split hairs here and this type of mod may not be worthwhile for many. 

Swapping all six sticks and using hollow ferrules will save you about an ounce which you can feel in way the kite handles.  The 2pt Exile weighs 7.3 oz, the UL 8.4 oz, and the std 10.7 ready to fly with weights and end caps.

You are absolutely correct on the ULs performance, it is powered up and flies well at 2.  The question is: is one more mph lower worth it?  You will also lose some momentum in tricks. While a 2pt Exile is a more limited kite, I really enjoy it and using the 3pt LS lets me fly it more like the UL in a little more wind.  The 2pt LSs will bend and break before the 2pt LEs in flight.

I do have an Ozone and yes the 2pt Exile will match it in low wind performance with more available tricks.  Do not have a Niknak but the Exile is not an indoor kite.

My best SUL is the Aerostar Z* at 5.6oz though weight is only part of the equation. At this weight, proper tuning, overall design, and balance make a big difference in performance.

If you cannot lower the weight by at least an ounce, changing a couple of sticks will not make a discernible difference and is not worth the effort. IMO.

Cheers,
Steve


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: RobB on August 20, 2009, 07:13 AM
Thanks, Steve.

You've given me a project. First thing to do is to find an Exile UL to mod. The rest sounds easy.
I'm not looking to fly indoors, but just to fly easier in variable 0-3mph that I see here frequently on the hazy, hot, humid days of late summer. I'm flying the Exile UL and the Nebula SUL currently, and getting pretty sweaty keeping them going at times. I've been wishing a couple times recently that I had my Ozone along.

~Rob.


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: Blownfuse on August 22, 2009, 02:40 AM
Or, if you can wait, and would like to try something else, then Jorgen who operates SporKiteDesigns is working on a Seven SUL. Should be tested and ready for sale, maybe around newyear. He is making some VERY nice kites...
 ;)


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: stapp59 on August 22, 2009, 04:55 AM
Back to the original posters question, there are several/many great kites out there. The standard advice is to test fly a high end kite before you buy as they all have a little different personality and abilities.

Certainly if you like the Qpro you should try a QP SUL.  Having a matched set of a given make/model you like is a good thing.

I have a set of Talons and they are trick monsters and very well built but require a little more wind to power up.

I've heard only great things about Lam's kites and have seen him fly.  He has a long record as a great flier who makes excellent kites.

In my bag, Blue Moon and Aerostar make the best kites for my inland wind conditions. The Exile UL is a worthy contender in this category.  Sadly Paul no longer makes the Sano. You had asked about a full size kite, the Exile is 7.5 ft and the Sano is a 7fter. The Mantis/Muse is a full 8ft though not quite as tricky as the Exile.

@Rob/Must86 You are wise to keep your Exile Moonie UL stock. Ken's kites fly well right out of the bag and do not need adjusted for most conditions.  I like to tweak things to see if I can eek out a little more performance here and there. That's one reason I have two of everything  :D

One tweak you might try: Assemble the Exile and pull the bridle pigtail down towards the LS connector so that the inhaul and upper outhaul are taut.  You'll see that the catch line pulls the two bridle segments together.  Slide the two sheet bend knots of the catch line towards the pigtail about 2" until the two bridle lines are just about straight. This seems to give a little better float and drive when the kite is flying above 45 degrees.  If the knots are tight, pull the bridle line nice and tight to loosen the knot a little and then it should slide.  If you don't like the change, slide the knots back. A subtle tweak that may help a little...

Don't expect any kite to fly in no wind.  Move your feet an learn to fly efficiently...

Best,
Steve


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: Poopy_Gnome on August 24, 2009, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback!  I'm planning to get a Talon UL...  now if I can just decide on a sail pattern...


Title: Re: SUL kite suggestions
Post by: DWayne on August 24, 2009, 04:37 PM
Thanks for the feedback!  I'm planning to get a Talon UL... 

I can't see you being disappointed with that choice.  ;D

Quote from: Poopy_Gnome
now if I can just decide on a sail pattern...

Good luck there. It'll be easier when you get around to ordering your standard Talon.  :D

Denny