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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 18, 2017, 08:43 PM



Title: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 18, 2017, 08:43 PM
Good Evening,

To start off, about 4 years ago I was at the Jersey Shore and decided to buy a Sky Dogs Little Wing Stunt Kite. For the entire week vacation flying that kite was all I wanted to do. I then got home that summer and tried to fly around home and found I couldn't use it due to the low winds. Not researching to see the options./information I gave up.

Fast forward to this past weekend. Again went to the Jersey Shore and took my kite, once again fell into love again. Granted this time I decided to see what to do once I was inland (SEPA-Quakertown, PA area) for a stunt kite. Average wind for the year is about 7-8 MPH, but often is fairly lower it feels, atleast when I want to/can fly. Plus if things get to windy I just fly my current Sky Dogs Kite. So I am looking to a little to no wind Ultra Light (don't mind working the kite to keep it up either, I need the exercise).

Started to look at ultra light stunt kites and found the Prism 4D. Thought I was set on it then I started finding some forums and can't help to see people steering away from them, plus my wind range may be too high anyway. They are considered small and fragile (after having the Little thing, I'd rather try something bigger). I then did some more research and pretty much came to the conclusion that I am looking at either a Silver Fox 2.5 UL or Aerobatx UL if I wanted to stay under 200. I really am interested in the Silver Fox UL but I want to make sure I am not choosing the wrong kite.

Looking for some advice. Also what does come with the Silver Fox 2.5 UL, I don't see anything specific? (i.e. carry bag, lines, etc.) Also if I do go with a bigger kite such as the silver fox what are the line recommendations for the bigger kites? (On the Prism 4D I saw 18', 32', and 50' are the general suggestions).

Thanks for the help!


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: chilese on September 18, 2017, 10:21 PM
Welcome to the Forum.  :)

Question cause questions.

1 What is your price range?

2 What size UL are you looking for?

3 Do you need a line set with the kite?
     Most people buy their lines separately.

4 Do you have other fliers in the area?

There are literally dozens of ULs that are excellent.



Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Bob D on September 19, 2017, 04:09 AM
 I've heard good things about the Silver Fox. A UL will fly in lower wind but you'll still have to feel it at the back of your neck. The frame is not as fragile as the 4D but you'll still have to be a little more careful with it than with a standard. Be extra careful learning to do tricks (especially learning to cartwheel in order to put your kite back in the launch position). Another advantage of the Silver Fox is that it's bigger than the 4D (I think it's a full size 7' kite) which means it's not as twitchy as a the smaller kites and easier to control.

I'm not sure what kind of line set you got with your kite. If you don't already have a good line set, you should get one that's somewhere between 75' and 100' if you have the room to fly with longer lines like that. I like a longer line set in low wind because I'm able to get the kite higher in the wind window  before the kite starts to lose its ability to stay up.

There ARE lots of good ULs. They're not necessarily the answer to low wind but they WILL help extend the low end range of your flying.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: etully on September 19, 2017, 04:09 AM
Get one of these, save yourself all of the hassle I went through with the 4d and Silver Fox.  BTW the FW 2.5 UL is a true dog.

[url]http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Sky-Burner-NikNak-Advanced__SB004.aspx/[url].  The Nik Nak is truly a gem.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 19, 2017, 06:05 AM
Welcome to the Forum.  :)

Question cause questions.

1 What is your price range?

2 What size UL are you looking for?

3 Do you need a line set with the kite?
     Most people buy their lines separately.

4 Do you have other fliers in the area?

There are literally dozens of ULs that are excellent.



1. Right now I'd like to stay under 200 but my absolute max is 250.

2. I'd like to try a bigger kite as my first one is a small one only at 60".

3. I only have my original line set that came with my first kite, which are 55lb, 65' lines.

4. Not that I know of, looking to supplement my other hobby for times I can't run my RC Trucks/Cars. Mostly doing it for myself and to promote some additional exercise.

I've heard good things about the Silver Fox. A UL will fly in lower wind but you'll still have to feel it at the back of your neck. The frame is not as fragile as the 4D but you'll still have to be a little more careful with it than with a standard. Be extra careful learning to do tricks (especially learning to cartwheel in order to put your kite back in the launch position). Another advantage of the Silver Fox is that it's bigger than the 4D (I think it's a full size 7' kite) which means it's not as twitchy as a the smaller kites and easier to control.

I'm not sure what kind of line set you got with your kite. If you don't already have a good line set, you should get one that's somewhere between 75' and 100' if you have the room to fly with longer lines like that. I like a longer line set in low wind because I'm able to get the kite higher in the wind window  before the kite starts to lose its ability to stay up.

There ARE lots of good ULs. They're not necessarily the answer to low wind but they WILL help extend the low end range of your flying.


The whole twitchy thing is what I am worried about with the 4D, coupled with the how fragile people say it is, worries me.

Get one of these, save yourself all of the hassle I went through with the 4d and Silver Fox.  BTW the FW 2.5 UL is a true dog.

[url]http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Sky-Burner-NikNak-Advanced__SB004.aspx/[url].  The Nik Nak is truly a gem.



I am assuming that you saying the FW 2.5UL is a dog means it is slow?

Seems that the NikNak is out of stock, Sky Burner's SKY BURNER, P.D.S.U.L. - ADVANCED looks interesting as well, but again back-ordered.

 


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: tcope on September 19, 2017, 06:29 AM
Have you considered a used kite? I've bought a ton and the people here tend to keep them in near new condition.

I've bought several Silver Fox kites here, including the Pro and UL and all were right around $120.

Small kites have their place but I would agree, something the size of the 4D is going to be twitch/fast. Some people like this and it will fly in very light winds. I get the feeling you are looking for low wind but still smooth and slower flight.

I like the Silver Fox line. The UL is a great kite and has not problems down to around 4mph. It's just a _tad_ heavy but it's a UL, not a Super Ultra Light. SUL kites have a wind range around 0-4, I'd say UL's go from 4-7. You are getting into specialty wind ranges with SUL and UL so those ranges are limited. My Silver Fox UL and Pro are kind of my go to kites right now. Are there better UL kites? Certainly... but they do tend to be a little more money. I think the SL line is a good bank for your buck. I will say that SL kites are going to fly a little different than many kites. They have a little bit more oversteer (not a bad thing, just different) so they are a little more "tricky". Many kites are like this and they lend to more tricks. But with 20-30 minutes of learning the feel of the kite and you learn this style of flying it back to normal turns. The Silver Fox UL is well made and can survive a lot of crashes without any issues.

55lbs line would work in the lower winds just fine. I'd say something like 65lbs would cover all wind ranges you want to fly in. So I don't think you would need to run out and buy line right away and could just use the 55lbs. At 7mph winds you are getting close though.

From what I recall, this was about 4mph wind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjcvAeeCSvM&t=22s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjcvAeeCSvM&t=22s)




Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 19, 2017, 07:12 AM
Have you considered a used kite? I've bought a ton and the people here tend to keep them in near new condition.

... I get the feeling you are looking for low wind but still smooth and slower flight...



Haven't really considered a used kite, granted after your post I did take a peak at the swap meet section.

You pretty much put it perfectly, looking for low/no wind but smooth and slower flight. I saw that the SilverFox 2.5UL has a wind range from 1-12, this is the wind range I am actually looking for. Sounds like though that the in practice wind range starts a bit higher than 1MPH, saw a review that said it really is around 2mph. But again that is a walking pace.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: tcope on September 19, 2017, 07:41 AM
You pretty much put it perfectly, looking for low/no wind but smooth and slower flight. I saw that the SilverFox 2.5UL has a wind range from 1-12, this is the wind range I am actually looking for. Sounds like though that the in practice wind range starts a bit higher than 1MPH, saw a review that said it really is around 2mph. But again that is a walking pace.
It's a lower wind kite, but it's not 1-2mph. I really think the 4mph is realistic for the SF UL. Someone might be able to fly at 3mph but that wind would need to be steady and it would require experience and some work. But to be honest, if you are looking at 1-3mph, you are _really_ getting limited. If a kite will fly in 1mph, you probably don't want to fly it in 4mph. If a person has a 1-2mph kite, a 2-4mph and up.... he/she has got about 20 kites in a bag somewhere. Yeah, it just happens.

Some times you can approach things a little different. If you are looking for a low wind kite at a low price, don't limit yourself to one kite.. look around for a good deal on any good low wind kite. That is why the Swap Meet is pretty good or you can even post a message that you are looking for a good low wind kite and see if anyone has one they might be willing to sell before it's posted. Happens all of the time.

But you can also pick up a new FW UL 2/5 from A Wind of Change for $165. To be honest, that is a pretty good deal. You then also get to pick the color. They have some good prices on other kites as well.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: etully on September 19, 2017, 07:48 AM
Well, go get your silver fox.  Used or new, you will not be happy unless you fly in standard wind.  


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Norm Pulliam on September 19, 2017, 08:21 AM
Artic Cat,

I think with everything that has been said: My question would be: How do you plan to fly whatever kite you buy?
Figures, tails, or are you planning on "trick"/slackline flying? It will make a BIG difference on what you buy. You also stated you had winds 7-8 MPH, so the SF Standard or UL will fly great in that wind providing it is a steady wind.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: tcope on September 19, 2017, 08:43 AM
Well, go get your silver fox.  Used or new, you will not be happy unless you fly in standard wind.  

I looked at the NikNak but have not flown one. It seems to me that the NN is slightly smaller (but still a good size kite), at about 10" less tip to tip. In looking at the materials and reviews I'd certainly say that it is a lower wind kite. Sky Burner (who makes the NN) makes _great, quality_ kites. No dount about that. IMHO, the NN would fly in lower winds and probably good from 2-4mph and perhaps up to 5-6mph. I'm guessing a little but it seems to be made to fly in lighter winds. I can't say anything for how it flies or tricks but I'm betting it flies great and tricks very good.

Everything is a trade off. The SF UL will trick all day at 4-7mph winds. It will probably perform 1/2 as well in 7-10mph. I'd guess that the NN's upper wind is going to be around 5-6mph and stop tricking around that as well.

So I'd say the NN flies in lower wind, is just a slight bit smaller (but still a large kite) and just a bit more delicate. The SL UL is slight larger, probably a little easier to find, heavier (for sure) but perhaps would take a harder hit.

I've flown hundreds of kites and I've learned two things... they all do their own things well and.... when flying John C's Vapor, make sure the handles are in the correct hands.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: tcope on September 19, 2017, 08:44 AM
providing it is a steady wind.
HUGE factor! HUGE, HUGE, HUGE! Don't care who you are... choppy winds make flying a PAIN, steady winds are heaven!


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 19, 2017, 09:23 AM
I'm going more for tricks/slackline with this kite.

In terms of the wind that is the difficult part, I don't have steady winds generally, is often quite choppy as you would put it. I was really surprised when I saw 7-8 for an annual average, I'd put it a lot lower. I just looked at my wind finder app and saw for most of the days right now I am looking at winds approximately 2-6MPH and gusts up to 9MPH. I would categorize that as normal for us.

Found the sounds of it, while I really like the silver fox, it just won't be appropriate for what I will be trying to fly in.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Norm Pulliam on September 19, 2017, 09:31 AM
I just looked at Kites and Fun Things webpage. Although the NikNak is listed, I don't think you can buy one unless he has some in stock. The Aura which in my opinion would be the kite for YOU is also listed, but you can't buy one, because I tried.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: etully on September 19, 2017, 09:38 AM
Nik Nak won't do for slack line stuff (but it flies very low).  I think most UL made in USA or Europe in the last 10-15 years is good, and a good bargain. Another big advantage is that they are all assembled with universal parts, so fixing them is cinch.  As an example, I just picked up the German made Kitehouse SIN UL listed here a few weeks ago, and it is a phenomenal slack line kite that powers up when the grass starts to move, and the price was very good.  


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: tcope on September 19, 2017, 09:57 AM
In terms of the wind that is the difficult part, I don't have steady winds generally, is often quite choppy as you would put it. I was really surprised when I saw 7-8 for an annual average, I'd put it a lot lower. I just looked at my wind finder app and saw for most of the days right now I am looking at winds approximately 2-6MPH and gusts up to 9MPH. I would categorize that as normal for us.

Found the sounds of it, while I really like the silver fox, it just won't be appropriate for what I will be trying to fly in.

This is the reason why you see people with a bag full of kites. Well, that and they are a little crazy.

The issue with something like a light, light wind, small kite is that they can't really take a stronger wind or guest. Something like a SUL that flies in 1-3mph is going to really be pushed at 4-7mph (and pretty much be risky at 7mph). It _might_ fly in 7mph but it's not going to be useful. A UL (such as the Silver Fox) can go as low as 4mph, I think you are looking for something that will fly in lower winds, but it's also going to be good for that 6-7mph wind you are talking about. If you want something for those 2-4mph times, it might not be a good fit for those 5-7mph winds. Welcome to the world of kiting.

However, don't see this as a bad thing. You _don't_ (don't) need a million kites. Take a little time, get some info and look around at some kites. Decide what you think would work best for you and go out and fly. Winds might be a little off for the kite but you will certainly be able to fly in more wind conditions.

I think I know where you are coming from... I think you would not mind a kite that flies in 1-3mph and would not mind if it won't do well in the 4-7mph range. If that is the case, I'd not recommend the SF UL.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: makatakam on September 19, 2017, 11:21 AM
Hey, glad you found this forum. You'll get lots of help here. It draws more dual-line flyers.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 19, 2017, 01:37 PM
With the skyburners out of stock, I've expanded my search and wallet a bit.

1. HQ Shadow (2-12MPH range)
2. Cesium Continental (0-7MPH range)

In both of these I am also worried about spare parts availability.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Norm Pulliam on September 19, 2017, 02:06 PM
THIS (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=9256.0) should make a good read for you.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: etully on September 19, 2017, 02:24 PM
Look for something framed with 3 PT, P200 etc. around 2.0-2.3 meters wingspan.  The Shadow has a weird pultruded LE that is fragile.  Also, it was not a rigid kite at all, so you can't slam it around.  A Nirvana UL or Widowmaker UL or Aura for example.  Maybe the Premier Widow UL is a good one, but I've never tried one.  People seem to like it and the price is good too. I have a 1.95 meter Lumokite Joker UL that is an amazing low wind flyer, but very radical. That kite made me realize that size is not the important factor in a light wind kite.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Norm Pulliam on September 19, 2017, 02:43 PM
Maybe the Premier Widow UL is a good one, but I've never tried one.  People seem to like it and the price is good too.
Please PM me as to where I can buy a Premier Widow UL.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Norm Pulliam on September 19, 2017, 02:53 PM
Here is some Shadow information for you. Notice it states it is for advanced Pilots and Experts. Might be why some don't seem to really like it.

 Product Information
The Shadow resulted from the collaboration of HQ test pilots Ralf Naujocks and Ralph Joh... It offers full freestyle abilities (mastery of all of the old and new tricks while ensuring a high level of  precision), and attained the hovering properties of an UL kite.

With the Shadow, pilots can be ready to work on tricks with even the slightest breeze on a quiet day. The light weight and elegant appearance of this kite take you away from the daily grind for a while. With an MP3 Player and the right music in your ear, flying the Shadow could become meditation.

Additional design features:
• Additional reinforcements on the stand-offs and spine
• Covered leading edge connectors: the flight line can slip through securely
• New type of adjustable HQ Jojo stoppers
• Additional catch leg on the bridle to prevent winding around the spine
• Light frame from 4mm carbon tubes and Dynamic T12 for a wide wind range
• Additional weight on the tail for rolling-up tricks and
  safe backspins

The construction of the Shadow is very light. It is a kite for advanced pilots and experts.
•Wind Range:  1 - 10 mph
•  Wingspan:  81.5"
•  Height: 38"
•  Fabric:  Rip Stop Polyester
•  Frame:  Dynamic T12 and 4mm Carbon Tube


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: etully on September 19, 2017, 03:33 PM
Are you attacking me Norm?  If Premier doesn't make a UL Widow, so state it. I reasoned they did, or did in the past.     I am just trying to offer some advice.  I have made a lot of purchasing mistakes in the past, and I am quite aware of what a good kite is compared to a &%#*e kite.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Norm Pulliam on September 19, 2017, 04:07 PM
Are you attacking me Norm? 
No, I’m not attacking anybody. I’ve gone the extra mile and used the search option and thought I found good information for him. I also posted HQ Shadow info I had in my files.

Maybe the Premier Widow UL is a good one, but I've never tried one.  People seem to like it and the price is good too.
This statement made me think you had done your research/homework and I wanted a URL as to where I can buy one. If you know where I can buy one, please send me a URL.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 20, 2017, 06:05 PM
Guys,

Thanks for the help. I'm pretty much at the point that I need to keep an eye on the classifieds to find a skyburner UL/SUL in my price range. Might go with the Shadow too but not too sure about it at this point.

Thanks again!



Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: glenn193 on September 22, 2017, 07:46 AM


        PM SENT.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 22, 2017, 08:50 AM


        PM SENT.

PM Returned!


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 22, 2017, 09:06 PM
Just a quick update. Seems that Glenn had a SkyBurner Aura SUL that he was looking to part with, after some brief talks I purchased it from him! Now just the long wait till I get it. I will update with some pictures once I get my hands on it.

As a side note I have been really impressed with this community so far, lots of good vibes and willingness to help. Can't say the same for my other hobby. Glad I took the plunge.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Norm Pulliam on September 23, 2017, 07:40 AM
I'm going to send you an e-mail with some files attached I think you will like.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: tcope on September 24, 2017, 04:58 PM
Can't say the same for my other hobby. Glad I took the plunge.
Guessing grunge punk?


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on September 24, 2017, 06:51 PM
Can't say the same for my other hobby. Glad I took the plunge.
Guessing grunge punk?

Good guess but no, other hobby is 1/10 scale rc rock crawlers and on-road cars. Lots of drama/know it all's, at least on the facebook pages and forums. Granted I have a few guys I run with and we have fun. 


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: thief on September 25, 2017, 03:57 AM
Oh do not worry, you will not miss the know-it-alls and drama here ;)


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on October 03, 2017, 07:19 PM
Evening all,

Well last night my kite arrived in great shape and just as advertised by the seller! Took me about an hour to figure out how to put the darn thing together.

(https://i.imgur.com/hyt6Tm7.jpg)

Tonight I made a proper fool out of myself at the local part right at sunset. Tried flying the kite in literally zero wind (I did try the whole "milking the wind" technique)... was able to launch nicely but couldn't keep it in the air to save my life. I'm caulking it up to lack of experience and my 65' flight lines. Watch a video of people flying a Aura SUL inside and no wind with less effort than I was trying to exert at the park, figured the users had about 12'-20' of line. Decided since I had more line sets coming I would cut a 16' section out of my 65' lines to make a ~16' set, to mimic their setups. I am planning to cut the rest of it down to make other smaller sets such as a ~30' and ~10 foot, etc. once I get my new 50', 75', and the 100' set (100' graciously gifted to me by another forum member). Please excuse my hastily made winder, planning to get a few extra proper ones when I order a kite bag later this week.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZjMRxs6.jpg)



Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Bob D on October 04, 2017, 04:19 AM
I never figured out how to fly in absolutely zero wind and I've been flying a long time (just not regularly like some of the members here.) I figure if I can feel the breeze on the back of my neck I'm good to go. If it's too light and not there at all I don't even try. I have a Nirvana WW (SUL) that still needs some wind to fly. Somebody with more skills might be able to fly it but I haven't put the time into getting to that point and I'm okay with that. The bottom line is to go out there, have a good time doing it, and don't let yourself get frustrated.


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on October 04, 2017, 06:57 AM
Bob,

Thanks for the reply! Yea flying in no wind isn't easy and I am not expecting it to be. I am quite stubborn and willing to learn so I am going to keep at it, emulate what I see and read. I also look at it as a great source of exercise that I desperately need. Plus, little-no wind is common where I am at, so I really want to learn how to fly in those conditions. WindFinder will say 5MPH and will really be like 0-1MPH where I am flying due to the hills, valleys, and trees in my area.

I'm the type that sees someone do something I like and I think to myself "I can do that!".


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: thief on October 04, 2017, 08:13 AM
To get your hands wet with no wind flying I would supplement your kite bage with a true zero wind kite.... a prism 3d, ozone, vapor, HQ shadow, HQ geenie, HQ Isis, HQ Hot Pepper, HQ PI, LAtelier 00, etc...
Something that is totally designed for no wind will help you learn faster how to create the apparent wind the kite needs to fly...then you can bring that outdoors to a bigger not-as-super-light kite....
a lot of the no wind kites are smaller 4-6' range and so you can also fly them in more places they you eve imagine as well as indoors.....


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on October 04, 2017, 05:07 PM
To get your hands wet with no wind flying I would supplement your kite bage with a true zero wind kite.... a prism 3d, ozone, vapor, HQ shadow, HQ geenie, HQ Isis, HQ Hot Pepper, HQ PI, LAtelier 00, etc...
Something that is totally designed for no wind will help you learn faster how to create the apparent wind the kite needs to fly...then you can bring that outdoors to a bigger not-as-super-light kite....
a lot of the no wind kites are smaller 4-6' range and so you can also fly them in more places they you eve imagine as well as indoors.....


Yeah I have a feeling I will be investing in a Prism 4D or another no wind kite like you listed soon. I by no way regret my buying decision as it was such a good price for what was upwards of a 300 dollar kite. Ironically I was going to purchase a 4D until this deal on the SUL came along.

I tired again tonight with 16' lines and it went much better. Still not where I want to be, it will take practice though. Trying to get to the point where these two guy's were with their skyburner Aura kites (indoor one is the SUL and the outdoor one is the UL).  I really can't get it to whip around like he does in the first video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eloWZQXt0mI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eloWZQXt0mI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frByVFJE8ZU&t=74s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frByVFJE8ZU&t=74s)


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Allen Carter on October 08, 2017, 10:11 AM
Wow.

Don't stress...

 :D

Keep in mind, Devin (they guy flying in the indoor video) has been doing this for many years (started as a kid) and is at a skill level that very few people get to even after many years.

Couple of things about zero wind flying.

Outdoors, it is rarely actual zero wind, still air like indoors. With kites this light, any bit of air movement is working against you and makes park flying (even when it feels like dead calm) way harder.

So, separate Indoor flying from Outdoor "Zero wind" flying. The two are often quite different. Learning the skills to keep the kite in the air and under control with just your body movements is WAY easier indoors because you are not competing with any air movement (unless someone forgot to turn off the ventilation system!).

The best thing to try with a light kite and short lines outdoors is start at one end of the field and launch and just fly side to side and loops while walking backwards. No tricks, tight lines, hands together the whole time. Faster you move, faster the kite goes. Slow you movement until the kite won't fly. This kind of thing gets you a feel for how much (or how little) tension on the lines is needed to keep it moving through the air.

From there, you can walk (or trot, or run) a 360. just fly to the left (or right) and keep going, backing up as needed to keep the kite flying in a straight line in a big circle.

These exercises outdoors will give you a feel for how the air movement you can't feel is effecting the kite. "Why did it do that?" is the the common response. :-)



Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Frazer on October 08, 2017, 02:42 PM

Yeah what Allen said ... this is him flying his Vanishing Point in the video in this thread

  http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=11919.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=11919.0)

That is some skilled SUL flying ...

-Frazer


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Arctic Cat ZRT on October 08, 2017, 05:03 PM
Thanks for the advice guys! I definitely need to work on the basics more, I got a head of myself on Saturday. Guess I set my sights pretty high to begin with... slow steps!

While my Aura is out of commission my Prism 4D should be arriving Tuesday, next Saturday is looking like a good low wind day. Also there are a good amount of parks by my work so I am going to try and get out during lunch since day light is against me this point in the year. After Saturday's mishap I will have to remember to keep my Sky Dogs little wing (tough little bugger) with me for when the wind picks up too.

Like I said though, while I did come home with a damaged kite this weekend, it was sure a lot of fun!


Title: Re: New Flyer, Second Kite
Post by: Allen Carter on October 08, 2017, 07:41 PM
Another thing, whenever I hear "park" I think "crappy wind".  :D

Just based on a lot of experience.

"Parks" often have trees, and are near buildings, and even have fences. All these things, and the fact of just  being in an otherwise developed area can make your average park a terrible place to fly.

One of my favorite flyers once told a story about frustrations getting started that was something like: "I knew there was plenty of wind because all the trees around the park had moving branches, but the wind always seemed to be in a different place than my kite"

So, look to understand the direction of the prevailing wind in the area (where the wind comes from on normal, non storm, days) and then look for a flying field with no upwind obstructions for at LEAST 100 yards from where your kite will be. Where I lived when I started flying, the wind was from the North on normal days and from the south when storms were coming. I had a park for normal days and one for storm days.

Lots more can be said about wind quality and how to figure it out. but it's pretty important.