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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: jazznap on October 27, 2009, 03:56 PM



Title: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: jazznap on October 27, 2009, 03:56 PM
Would anyone mind giving an opinion on the E2 versus the E3.  Sale price for the E2 is great and very tempting, but at <$30 more for the E3, it is worth the upgrade?

As I'm new to the forum, I'll give a little background.  I used to fly quite a bit, but put down the lines about 8 years ago.  I was never very good, but could do some basic tricks (axels, fades, 540s, lazy susans) with my Prism fanatic, 3D, and Ozone.  I also have an Elixer and original Illusion but were/are saving them for when I get a little better so as note to beat them up.  I figure an E2/E3 would be a good (re)trainer to get back in the swing of things but am debating whether to save $30 for the next kite (there's always a next) or just pony up for the E3.  Sorry, only interested in Prism right now; recovering fanboy.

p.s. I also have an old AirCorps Wild Child, Dodd Gross Dynamite, Alien, Micron, and some SLKs.

Thanks for the help!


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Steven L Hall on October 27, 2009, 04:06 PM
Short and sweet ...
Based on what you've written, my experience on the E2 and E3 I'd say save the $30 and grab an E2, or if you like the Citrus E2 you can save $40.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Kantaxel on October 27, 2009, 05:00 PM
Short and sweet ...
Based on what you've written, my experience on the E2 and E3 I'd say save the $30 and grab an E2, or if you like the Citrus E2 you can save $40.


I'd say AMEN to that!

Oops blowing my cover here :-X

Jim


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on October 27, 2009, 09:26 PM
Go with the e2. And don't adjust anything. It doesn't help. The e2 flies best on the stock settings IMO. Well maybe move the bridle up for light winds, but; that's it.

I have a loaner e3 at the moment, and while I personally find it a much more interesting kite than the e2; it would not be something I'd recommend to someone looking to "get back in the swing of things".

The e3 is downright idiosyncratic. Fliers used to flying some of the more out there kites currently made would probably get it, if not like it, but it certainly is not aimed at the same market as the e2.

Matter of fact I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what group of fliers this kite was targeted at. It's way over the head of the typical e2 buyer.

With a frame upgrade (and graphics downgrade) the e3 might find a market with more advanced fliers. It's kind of heavy (and a bit wobbly) as it is now.

*THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BRIDLE IMO*

That seemed to be a big issue with some buyers, but no.. it is just that sort of kite. It will do all sorts of interesting things if you apply yourself. You really *do* need to apply yourself though.

It is not a happy smiley "get back in the swing of things" type kite so; skip it until you get a chance to fly one and then maybe you will just *have* to have one.

Personally, I think you should fly the Dynamite to destruction and then decide where to go from there.

JMO, HTH, YMMV


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Dolphinboy on October 27, 2009, 09:42 PM
I second flying the Dynamite until you get your feet wet again. Then if you need to buy Prism get a Zephyr or Quantum Pro.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Kitemac on October 28, 2009, 05:10 AM
It's way over the head of the typical e2 buyer.


So are you saying the kite is good but the typical owner doesn't have the skills?  I have heard so many negative things about this kite with many making significant modifications  to the bridle it is not clear what is wrong.  If the typical Prism buyer can't fly it out of the box it would seem the kite is doomed.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: fworley on October 28, 2009, 05:23 AM
So are you saying the kite is good but the typical owner doesn't have the skills?  I have heard so many negative things about this kite with many making significant modifications  to the bridle it is not clear what is wrong.  If the typical Prism buyer can't fly it out of the box it would seem the kite is doomed.

Yes, thats right - thats what hes saying - the typical Prism owner doesn't have the skills.

And I concur.

-Frazer


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Jared on October 28, 2009, 06:54 AM
So are you saying the kite is good but the typical owner doesn't have the skills?  I have heard so many negative things about this kite with many making significant modifications  to the bridle it is not clear what is wrong.  If the typical Prism buyer can't fly it out of the box it would seem the kite is doomed.

Yes, thats right - thats what hes saying - the typical Prism owner doesn't have the skills.

And I concur.

-Frazer

I guess I have to hope I'm not the typical Prism owner... I found the stock E3 to be a very disappointing experience.  Altering the bridle, the kite became much more predictable and (dare I say) enjoyable.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: streamhawk on October 28, 2009, 07:09 AM
I do not own a E3, but from all accounts I've read, I'd shy away from it. On the other hand, the E2 is a very reliable trainer, a good mid level kite for all purposes. The Elixir you already have is a very capable, if not a great ol skool kite, I'd stick with what you have until you are ready to upgrade, or get the E2. I find that for feel on the lines, with added axis based tricks, a somewhat similar kite to the Elixir is the Blue Moon Exile, a very fine kite for sure. Within the Prism line, the QPro is very demanding of correct inputs, but a much better kite than either of the E's...the Zeph is the more fun flier, less demanding, with a wider wind range, especially on the low end.

Bill


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: adx1592 on October 28, 2009, 07:15 AM
if anything, id grab the e2 and use the dynamite for getting your feet wet again forsure. then use the e2 to learn the tricks, and the elixir to solidify them. thats just me. thats actually what I did with both my e2s and elixir. When I had all the tricks i wanted to learn down, I sold them and passed them on. I leared alot from both kites.
Its just my opinion, but I'd go with that setup.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: jazznap on October 28, 2009, 08:23 AM
Thanks for all the input!  I plan on using the Dynamite and getting as much as I can out of it, but there's something about getting a new kite that adds that extra excitement.  It sounds like an E2 is in my near future.  Since I know I'll want something else (and also have my eye on a BMK 69/14) once I progress a bit, saving a little aside for the kite fund helps.  My initial plan was to use the Dynamite and E2 to "practice" and then use the Elixer to firm and it sounds like that's about the right course.  Thanks again for all the help.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on October 30, 2009, 12:54 AM
I did not say anything about Prism Fliers. I said "typical e2 buyer"

This kite is a bit much for the person upgrading from their 2nd or 3rd kite IMO.

It would be a disaster as a first kite.

The e2 has fairly placid handling characteristics. The e3: not so much. You can tune it and mod it to be an e2 but then; what's the point? Just buy the e2 in that case.

The e3 is sort of a surly, cantankerous, e2, which is what makes it interesting. I just don't think it hits the same target market.


It's way over the head of the typical e2 buyer.


So are you saying the kite is good but the typical owner doesn't have the skills?  I have heard so many negative things about this kite with many making significant modifications  to the bridle it is not clear what is wrong.  If the typical Prism buyer can't fly it out of the box it would seem the kite is doomed.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Kitemac on October 30, 2009, 04:02 AM
Jim:

I don't see the difference between a Prism flier and the typical e2 buyer.  I would consider myself a Prism flier since I own a Nexus, Quantum, Hypnotist, E2, Qpro and soon a Zephyr.  I love the graphics of the E3 but not the reviews I have seen.

What is the target market and does the E3 fly like anything else in the Prism line?

Not having flown an E3 I am confused why it is getting a lukewarm reception. 

Tom


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: RobB on October 30, 2009, 04:54 AM
I didn't like the E3 until I spent over 3 hours of test & tune time on it. I ended up making basically the same modifications that Jared made, and now it flies pretty much like the E2. With yoyo stoppers. It really just brought it back within the familiar Prism 'feel'. Out of the bag, stock, it flew unlike ANY kite that I have, not in a fun way. After 5 minutes, I wanted to land it and fly something else because it was wasting my flying time. I messed with it, it got a little better, but still, anything else in the bag was more satisfying to fly.
After listening to a more skilled flier who was flying a stock E3 for the first time, I returned mine to stock settings again. I tried to get along with it and give it more of a chance, it just wasn't happening. I applied the common bridle modifications, and at least the kite is fun to fly and looks good doing it, now.
It amazes me that I never had to touch the bridle on my E2, or most other Prism kites. Or most of ANY of my other kites.
~Rob.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Kantaxel on October 30, 2009, 07:59 AM
I gotta agree with Jim................
I'm amazed that every one wants to get the new kite and mod it to fly like another kite in their bag..................you need to apply yourself to releasing what the designer put into it and if you don't want to, pass it on to someone who might?

Did I detect a bit of Fan Boy bashing there Fraz? ;D

Jim


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: fworley on October 30, 2009, 08:04 AM
Did I detect a bit of Fan Boy bashing there Fraz? ;D

Thats outrageous ! I'm not in the least bit homophobic !

-Frazer


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on October 30, 2009, 09:00 AM
You are not who the e2 was aimed at. If you removed the Hypnotist, Zephyr and QP from that list then maybe you would be a typical e2 flier.

If the kite does not fly to your tastes, then; maybe it's not your cup of tea.

Of course, modding it to your taste: knock yourself out, but don't think for a minute that the kite is entirely FUBAR: it isn't.

Personally, I feel that the e3 is outside the current Prism model progression. It doesn't fit in.

Nexus, Quantum, Hypno, QP, with the Zephyr if you are feeling a bit more freestyley. That's the progression I'm seeing for their market.


Jim:

I don't see the difference between a Prism flier and the typical e2 buyer.  I would consider myself a Prism flier since I own a Nexus, Quantum, Hypnotist, E2, Qpro and soon a Zephyr.  I love the graphics of the E3 but not the reviews I have seen.

What is the target market and does the E3 fly like anything else in the Prism line?

Not having flown an E3 I am confused why it is getting a lukewarm reception. 

Tom


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: normofthenorth on October 30, 2009, 12:45 PM
As I recall, I found the e2 a bit floatier than the Dynamite and quicker or smaller-feeling. And I did find the adjustments useful, especially in UL winds. Otherwise, +1 for you can learn virtually everything on the Dynamite, I think (though without that new-kite excitement).


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Ace on November 04, 2009, 04:14 AM
Being a Prism fan I thought i would chime in with my 2 cents.
I recently stopped flying my E2 and have to say +1 on the E2 as a great kite. I haven't flown an E3 yet but I have to say I'm pretty tempted to go buy one just to see what all the fuss is about.
I refuse to believe Prism would release a kite that fly's so crap out of the bag. Shouldn't you be adjusting your inputs to suit the kite? I'm now flying a Nirvana and its very different to the E2 (no brainer there) and after 4 sessions with it still can't do some of the things I could with the E2. But by some peoples logic, does that mean I should modify my Nirvana to fly like the E2, cause that would be CRAZY! ??? so I'll keep flying it till I get better at it and appreciate what its good at.

Same goes for the E3, I think people should keep trying and have patience.

There has been people on the prism forum of late buying the E3 as there FIRST kite and then asking why it doesn't fly (when they haven't assembled it correctly) asking what's the weight for? what's sail tension? and what are yo yo stoppers etc. Clearly the E3 is not a beginners kite.

The issue is....
Beginners are buying it and Trashing it cause its a little too advanced for them (then bad mouthing it)
Intermediates are buying it and butchering it, cause they lose patience and expect something different
and Pro's aren't buying it at all.... Well cause its not a pro kite.

So where does that leave the E3? I think it leaves it exactly where Prism wants it. Targeted at the Pilot looking to advance to the NEXT LEVEL. Someone who is no longer a beginner but not yet an intermediate. Someone who has not developed a bias towards a certain kite or flying style (if there is such a thing) It should be your first trick kite when you know how to fly but can't trick. I mean why would you buy this kite if you can already trick real well. It comes with a beginner Instructional DVD!!!!!!
After all it is an upgrade of an older model kite and the designer has tried to retain some of the forgiveness whilst packing in the modern stuff. It was never going to be a DEEP SPACE or Talon. And at nearly half the price with DVD and lines, you can't beat that!

Good Winds!!! :)


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Bob D on November 04, 2009, 05:02 AM
Well put, Ace! I'm sure it's a fine kite because Prism has a solid reputation for its kites. They may not be Bensons or R-Sky's but there's nothing wrong with them for their target market.

I've always maintained that it's more pilot skill than the kite's abilities. The E3 may not do everything that a beginner or intermediate pilot might want but I'll betcha their skills aren't up to it. If that's the case than get a Transfer for lazy susans and snap lazies, a Deep Space for cascades, a Fearless for Jacob's Ladders and a Widow Maker for 540s and Flic Flacs. Or just get one of these high end kites just so you know it can be done and work on technique with the E3.

Me - I'm still working on technique because I'm not consistent with one kite to the next. I'm determined to learn to fly the R-Skys because they're the gold standard. It's not the kite, it's my abilities.

In any case, if it's nice outside and not too hot or too cold and the wind is good, go out, enjoy the day and fly!


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: anOldMan on November 04, 2009, 05:22 AM
Ace,
Well asaid!  ;)

Maybe it is still a new kite but there has not been a great amount of people saying what they think about the kite "out of the box". I agree that the E3 and the E2 are/were not beginners kites.

The questions for this kite OOTB are:
- How hard is it to learn tricks with the E3?
- Is there an easier kite or kites for learning tricking for the same price?
- How does the E3 match up with other kites of the same price?
- (and the biggest question) How far can you go with the E3 compared to kites of the same value?

It would be interesting to here from some of the "ready for trick time" flyers, who have an E3, what they think about the kite?


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Jared on November 04, 2009, 07:40 AM
I'd say that, if the only thing you wanted to do was roll up the kite into the yo-yo position, then out of the box, the E3 is what you're looking for.  If you want to do things like: turn in a circle without hitting the ground, perform a side slide, or do a half axel, then OOTB the E3 is not for you.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Ace on November 04, 2009, 02:12 PM
Turn in a circle without hitting the ground?????????
A bit much don't you think.  ???
Its those sorts of comments that make the rest of the more constructive comments less believable. :(


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Gamelord on November 04, 2009, 03:47 PM
Wow....such controversy over this kite....makes me wonder if I even want to post about it.

But...I will. :)

My findings on the E3 are not anywhere close to what everyone else seems to be having.  I find that the E3 is actually a very good kite capable of doing plenty of tricks...even flying in a circle without hitting the ground. (what a worthless and degrading comment).

I have flown both the E3 and the E2 and have to say that the E3 is definitely a HUGE upgrade in trick-ability over the (IMO) outdated E2.  The tail weight, while being somewhat simple and light in design, works perfectly on this kite.  The E3 rolls up very easily and has excellent control while rolled / rolling.  It also cascades, flick flack's, slots, JL's, lazy's and more very nicely.  All of these tricks are easier to do on the E3 than on the E2 - especially the roll up maneuvers.  I love the graphics and think they are some of the sharpest ones on the market today.  The kite is just stunning to see in the air.

I also feel that Prism has done a fantastic job with the placement of the E3.  Before the release, the Hypnotist and the E2 were very close in comparison and tricks.  It almost made it not worth the extra money to purchase the E2 because the less expensive Hypno came with the same gear and was nearly as tricky - although slightly heavier.  The E3 has greatly raised the trick-ability over the Hypno with better light wind performance.  I would put the Hypno as a kite for someone who is very new to kiting but wants a kite that can challenge them - and still crashes from time to time.  The E3 is for the pilot who has flown extensively and hardly crashes at all but wants a kite to advance their flying into the slack line tricks that they will not out-grow in a long while.

I was able to take my new E3 out to our local fun fly a couple of weekends and several pilots all had turns on it.  The kite was completely and 100% NEW - Out of the box.  The only adjustments that were done was the bridle adjustment points for wind conditions - and even those adjustments were not needed the first time we flew it.  The kite flew excellently without any problems at all.  There was a bit of adjustments in our flying technique to get use to the E3 over our current kites but that is the same with any kite - regardless of manufacturer or design.  I have to constantly re-train my inputs when moving from my Widow Maker to my Deep Space - just different kites that require different inputs.  Moving from another kite to the E3 will probably require the same.

Overall - we were all very pleased with the E3 and the improvement it was over the E2 - and just how well the kite was able to perform.  We all realize and agree that the E3 is not a Widow Maker, Nirvana or Exile - but then again it doesn't carry the same price tag or is marketed as such.  Would I trade my Widow Maker for it?  Probably not.. :)  Would I be happy flying it - definitely yes! (even right out of the box).  MSRP of +- $180.00 with LPG spectra line and Freestyle Pilot DVD makes it a fantastic deal for the up and coming pilot.

Perhaps we were lucky enough to get a specially great E3 and the others on this thread got a bad one.....I doubt it.

Our experiences put the E3 as a fantastic kite, better in design and performance over the E2 and perfect for the pilot looking to move from a beginner style kite into a kite that is very capable of learning and performing many of the newer modern day slack line tricks - without having to pay top dollar for a boutique style high end kite.

Anyways...thats our experiences with the Prism E3 - yours may be vary depending on skill or conditions...or both. :)


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Ace on November 04, 2009, 04:10 PM
Quote
even flying in a circle without hitting the ground. (what a worthless and degrading comment).
I agree completely pointless comment!

Quote
thats our experiences with the Prism E3 - yours may be vary depending on skill or conditions...or both
I would say skill more than anything.



Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Jared on November 04, 2009, 04:50 PM
Quote
even flying in a circle without hitting the ground. (what a worthless and degrading comment).
I agree completely pointless comment!

Quote
thats our experiences with the Prism E3 - yours may be vary depending on skill or conditions...or both
I would say skill more than anything.


I'm really starting to resent the implications about my (lack of) flying ability. 

I don't claim to be any sort of expert, but I've flown enough dual line kites to know when something is "off."  My Quantum Pros both shipped with upside down bridles, and I knew within 10 minutes of picking them up that something wasn't right.  I had the same feeling with the E3.  Every downward turn I made with the stock E3 ended with the kite hitting the ground.  I stand by the comment.

If you want me to elaborate, I'll go further.  I think that the E3 is a poor choice for an intermediate flyer.  So much has already been said about how today's dual line flyers don't spend enough time working on the fundamentals (stalls, slides, etc) before moving on to flashy, pitch-based tricks.  And yet, here's a kite that punishes every attempt to work on fundamentals, and encourages flailing-arm pitch-based tricks.

And lest you think it's just me, I had handed my stock E3 off to two other experienced local flyers and their impressions matched mine.  Maybe that means the kite I got has failed some sort of quality control test. 


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Ace on November 04, 2009, 05:33 PM
Jared
My previous post was in no way directed at you. Apologies if you thought so. It was a broad comment about peoples differing skill level getting different results from this kite.

You mentioned that every downward turn ended with the kite hitting the ground. :o :o If that were the case obviously something was wrong. I would have stopped flying it and chased some answers. No shame in that.
To keep flying it with something wrong or worse yet give it to others to fly in that state is probably not the best idea.
Have you asked Prism for stock Bridle measurements to see if everything is OK? That would be my first step.
After all it is a mass produced Chinese built kite. (Things can go wrong)


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: anOldMan on November 04, 2009, 09:54 PM
Boy, This kite is a Love Hate affair!  ::)  ::)

Thank You Gamelord for your comments on the kite. It is the first time someone talked about the kite OOTB and not with modification to make the kite work.

The only thing I sitll have a question about: is this kite for a beginner (someone who can control the kite and wants to start to learn tricks) or an intermediate flyer.

i.e. Is this kite's enjoyment dependent on skill of the flyer?

Prism states the Skill level as Intermediate - advanced. Should it be a beginner's first good stunt kite?  :-\


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: chilese on November 04, 2009, 10:35 PM
I guess you'd have to ask a beginner.

I thought the kite was pretty good overall. And, I like the "caution tape" graphics. Maybe all the excellent kiters prefer shades of grey, but I think a kite should make a visual statement too.

The box stock one I flew was fine. We did have a LS back off the center ferrule and split during our heavy tricks flying. Don't know the cause, maybe we didn't seat it well to begin with.

To me, intermediate kites are sort of an unknown.

Beginner kites? Sure.

But once you can fly a kite around without crashing, I figure almost anyone can fly the advanced kites. They might not wring out every possible trick, but the kite isn't going to be destroyed. Heck, the kites in the air and slack lined. How hard can it hit the ground anyway?

And I have certainly bounced my share of kites around.  ???


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on November 04, 2009, 11:13 PM
It is really very simple.

Prism tells you exactly what this kite is.

It's a higher aspect (hence the caution tape sections) e2 with stoppers, a weight, and a tweaked bridle.

They consider it to be suitable for intermediate (and above) fliers.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Ace on November 05, 2009, 12:34 AM
Quote
Thank You Gamelord for your comments on the kite. It is the first time someone talked about the kite OOTB and not with modification to make the kite work.

Yeah I second that, as belated as the praise may be :)


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Gardner on November 05, 2009, 09:57 AM
There is nothing wrong with the E3.  It is what prism claims it is -- an updated, more sophisticated version of the E2.  Yes, I tuned the kite to fly the way I liked.  Mark  Reed designed the kite to fly at sea level but I live at an altifude of 3,700 feet above sea level.  The air here is not as dense and somewhat drier since this is a semi-arid inland region.

To my way of thinking, tuning is different from modifying.  The overall shape of the kite has not been changed. None of the rods were shortened or lengthened.  I did change the spine because it broke, but that was my fault.

BTW, how many people fly Nirvanas without tuning them or making some modification?

Gardner


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on November 05, 2009, 11:15 AM
Back in '03 (always wanted to do that..) everyone and his mother was modding everything trying to figure out what worked, with basically comp kites, to include pitch tricks.

Nirvanas are very amenable to modding, so there have been many bridles, in particular, developed for the kite.

But, at this point, there really is no need to be modding. Most of the kites designed to do roll up based tricks are pretty much there as is right out of the bag.

Bridle tuning is always something to do if you wish. That's not a modification.

I understand that people still like to tinker and mod these things. My question would be in aid of what exactly?

One ought to have a clear idea of what one is after at this point in order to make it worthwhile IMO, unless of course you just like to mod things. As I said earlier: knock yourself out. It's your kite.

Gardiner, in your case, modding for high altitude use makes a lot of sense.

My experience with both the e2 and e3 is that even the included adjustments do little to improve the basic flight of the kite over the stock settings. They do what they are designed to do best right out of the bag, assuming that there have been no QC problems during manufacture.


 OTOH, I did add a QP center tee, glides, and stoppers to my e2, when I had one, to aid in roll ups.  ::)

The bread and butter kite in the Prism line up at the moment is the Hypnotist IMO.

I'd take one of those over either the e2 or e3, and yes; one would have to add stoppers, glides, and weight to it in order to get the most out of it IMO.

To get the performance benefits associated with a stiffer frame and sail fabric the QP would be the obvious choice from Prism.

the reason I bummed an e3 from Steve was to see for myself what was going on with the kite after hearing all sorts of stuff about how messed up it was.

I will confess that it confirmed my initial hunch which was that there was nothing particularly off on the e3.

It has its quirks, but then that is not all that unusual with Prisms.



Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on November 17, 2009, 08:15 AM
Just an amendment..

I have to take back the comment about taking a Hypnotist over the e3.

I've grown rather fond of this one Steve has graciously lent me.

True, it has those caution tape sections, but if just the silhouette of the e3 is considered, it is one of the best looking kites ever designed IMO.

I had to remind myself several times Yesterday that I don't like those caution tape sections as the sun shone through the panels  ::)

It also flies very nicely, tracks well, fades well, very laid back, without any pull to speak of even in winds around 15mph. It handled what were sometimes difficult winds with greater aplomb than many of the other kites I flew Yeasterday.  ???

It's not an all out, go for broke, trick machine, not liking to be banged around too hard as it will go a bit oingo boingo, but if you are smooth with your inputs it is really fun and rewarding to fly.

But again, I have to stick to my guns on this not being the kite for e2 fliers.

One of the guys out on the field Yesterday, whom I consider to be the target for this kite - flown a bit, has general control over his kite, wanting to move up into tricking - did not get on with it at all. It seemed sluggish to him. And he has an e2 that he likes as far as I know.

Now, I will try tuning it a bit for him the next time we meet up, but I still think the e3 is a little further up the food chain than the e2.

Which brings up the question: at what point do weights and Yo-Yo stoppers and the rest of it, push a kite past a certain fliers current capabilities?

Is it possible that making these features available just gets between the kite and the intended fliers' enjoyment of flying it at a certain point on the learning curve?

There is a lot of stuff that makes a kite pitch friendly that can also make it harder to get on with.

Pilots, at some level, are always having to compensate for this and that with particular kites. It becomes second nature.

But what about those who have not developed the skill?

I guess you have to start somewhere... OTOH, I don't think it helps the pastime to have fliers dropping close to Two Bills on their first upscale kite and then thinking, "well that wasn't very fun.."

That's not aimed at the e3 exclusively.

Is there a point where you just push them out of the nest? Or is there another road to take in this age of internet flying where newer pilots often do not have anyone to fly with most of the time?


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: xuzme720 on November 17, 2009, 08:54 AM
I would consider myself strictly a rank amateur when it comes to freestyle tricking. I do however have a ton of experience flying, if you count total years I have flown (there are a lot of years, in between, that i wasn't flying, as well). I jokingly call myself a flailer although my fades seem very elegant and smooth, so maybe somewhere along the line :P I have managed to pick up finesse as well. Of everything in the bag, it's 2 of the Prism's that I really like best. At least they are the ones that make me look good. One of those is the E3. The other is my Zephyr. Maybe I am the type of pilot the E3 is aimed at, but I have to say I love flying it and have not changed anything other than the stock, intended, adjustments for wind speed (bridle and stand-off position). Maybe it's just my flying style that cooperates with the E3 rather than clash with it. I do have to adjust from kite to kite, as everyone does, but I never saw any of the horrible characteristics arise that I have read so much about. Maybe it's just that I flew it and loved it before I read it's bad press. But I think it is safe to say, for whatever reason, the E3 is strictly a love it or hate it kite. I love it. All of it. Even the graphics.
JMO FWIW YMMV


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: indigo_wolf on November 17, 2009, 11:40 AM
True, it has those caution tape sections

This is what they reminded me of the first time I saw them:
(http://www.military-graphics.com/NOSTEP.png)
I figure they have been on aircraft wings for a long time, so what the heck.  ;)

if just the silhouette of the e3 is considered, it is one of the best looking kites ever designed IMO.

Big fan of certain kite silhouettes...
Gem/MiniGem, Stranger, Dharma SR, T2 Comp, BV Sonic, E2/E3.... kind of nice to hear that from someone else.

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: streamhawk on November 17, 2009, 01:02 PM
For the E2, and to some degree the Gem, it's the somewhat bat shape I've always liked.

Bill


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: indigo_wolf on November 17, 2009, 01:29 PM
it's the somewhat bat shape I've always liked.


Shhhhh..... I didn't want to use any of the "b" words... bat, batten, err...umm... bimblethwack  ???  Very much in need of sleep now.... miles to go yet.

ATB,
Sam



Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: streamhawk on November 17, 2009, 02:40 PM
well, batten down the hatches and heave ho Sam. 'Bat time for some shuteye then. If only Inspector Gordon would shine the Batman signal, all would be safe from E3's and the like.

Bill


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Kitemac on November 18, 2009, 07:20 AM
Just an amendment..

But again, I have to stick to my guns on this not being the kite for e2 fliers.

One of the guys out on the field Yesterday, whom I consider to be the target for this kite - flown a bit, has general control over his kite, wanting to move up into tricking - did not get on with it at all. It seemed sluggish to him. And he has an e2 that he likes as far as I know.


I was the unnamed individual who did not get on with the E3.  Most of the flying time with the kites I have are the Quantum, Hypnotist, Acrobatx STD and UL, the Addiction and some time with the E2.  The biggest problem I had with the E3 is the lines were going slack all the time which probably made the kite feel sluggish.  There was plenty of wind so this was not the problem.  I would not only limit the E3 not being for the  E2 fliers since I do not have this problem with any of the other kites I mentioned.

I think Steve provided wise advice in steering me toward the E2 since I would be very unhappy with the E3.  It is unfortunate since I really like the E3 in Citrus. 

I guess I will be remembered as the typical Prism pilot without the skills to fly the E3.  :'(


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on November 18, 2009, 08:31 AM
No, That's not it. It is a kite that requires some compensation in flying style in order for it to fly happily.

It's what Kent was referring to as adjusting one's style in order to fly it.

This is not that unusual, but it requires a learned skill which comes with time on the lines.

There is nothing wrong with your skills Kitemac. You are an intermediate flier.

The e3 is, IMO, not an Intermediate kite. It does not hit the same target flier as the e2 as I've said before.



Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: RobB on November 21, 2009, 07:32 AM
OK, I'm one of those people that had a terrible time with my E3 when I first got it. It didn't fly like any other Prism kite that I have or have had. Really seemed to be dead on the lines, even with plenty of wind. I spent more time than I usually do on a kite that I don't like, because it looked so cool in the air. I ended up using the bridle mods that Gandner and DaveH came up with, as interpreted by Jared. Jared made a nice photo documentation of his mods on another forum. He also had the same opinion of the kite as I did, before and after the mods.

I flew mine yesterday, and after 5 hours on the lines (3+ hours of test & tune), I can say that I finally enjoy the kite, not only for it's looks, but now for the nice 540s, axels and Jacob's Ladders. It's slow and heavy feeling still, but that makes it easy to time your inputs. I was flying it in ~5mph, and it required a bunch of light wind flying technique, it would really be happier with a little more wind.
Thanks to those that spent time coming up with different suggestions for adjustments, and also those that kept saying that the kite's not that bad, just get used to it. My E3 has been saved from being a dust collector and will probably get flown quite a bit...

 :)


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: DaveH on December 01, 2009, 08:59 AM
I've had my E3 since last spring and have really grown to like it.  My winds tend to be very light or around 8 to 12 and gusty.  This kite has become my go to knock around kite for most days when the wind is blowing.  I've flown it a bunch in the stock configuration and it was fine.  I have shortened the outhauls a bit simply because I like the way it spins better in that configuration.  I currently have the citrus and like the kite so much I'm thinking of getting another one as a backup in graphite.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Kitemac on December 01, 2009, 12:14 PM
DaveH:

If you are the same DaveH with the video "Having Fun with the E3"  on Youtube I could see why you like it so much.  You have no problems flying the kite and your skills are very good.  It is also in my favorite E3 color Citrus.

Maybe you could share the video with the forum so they can see what a properly flown E3 can do. 


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on December 01, 2009, 12:28 PM
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=2101.msg18103#new (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=2101.msg18103#new)


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: DaveH on December 01, 2009, 01:15 PM
Kitemac,
thanks for your kind words.  I posted it here this morning.

Jim,
Thanks for linking it for him. 
I remember when it first came out my attitude was like, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling! This kite is a little different!"  But after putting some time on it I found a lot to like.  The heavier feel than the E2 calmed my often over enthusiastic inputs.  I found in a yo yo the wings would stay level more consistently than with other kites. So then after the wrap it was easier for me to continue into a combo.  I've learned a lot about what I want from kiting in the last six months.  I just want to get outside and have some fun.  Easy going fun kites like the E3 (and the Premiere Widow) really fit with my current interest level in kiting.  That's why I posted in this thread and put the video online. I just wanted to share the fun side of this kite.  Its not the next end all be all kite.  Its just a cool looking kite that does some neat tricks.  A fun companion for a warm summers day.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: Kitemac on December 01, 2009, 02:11 PM
[url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=2101.msg18103#new[/url] ([url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=2101.msg18103#new[/url])


Thanks Jim.  You are quick today.  Fast link and fast kite purchase.


Title: Re: Prism E2 vs. E3
Post by: JimB on December 01, 2009, 09:18 PM
np

 ;)