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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: chrispie on January 14, 2010, 09:22 PM



Title: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: chrispie on January 14, 2010, 09:22 PM
How do you guys hold your straps?

I tried to hold it like Dodd gross, with fingers.. only to have blisters after some time... I find that the pops are done with more of the hand then wrists.. so that sorta ended up having exagerated movements in a way.

I then tried to hold it like RandyG, with wrists looped in strap and a finger guiding the line.. (prism video pilots hold it this way too) but find it very hard to keep fingers in position, although i do find it very effective in helping to trick as that somehow translates wrists movements more precisely into the lines..

Any input?


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: tpatter on January 14, 2010, 10:19 PM
Whatever way feels good to you, I would say.

I also can't stand straps around my wrists, but I know some pretty decent flyers that do it that way.

I loop them around my ring finger and then hold them between my thumb and index finger.   I tried many different ways of doing it, but this worked out best for me.   I just don't like alot of strap between my hands and the lines.  Even in high winds, I fly this way.  In really light winds, I skip straps all-together and just use a loop of bridle line.

Find what works for you and go with it.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: sluggo on January 14, 2010, 10:56 PM
I loop them around my ring finger and then hold them between my thumb and index finger.

I use the Jest of Eve "Finger Straps" (should be simple enough to find the relevant links...), which have loops for your ring and pinky fingers. For me they are quite comfortable, and the small finger loops make me feel more securely "strapped in" than with wrist straps (though I might hesitate to use them in gale-force winds for that same reason).


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: WinterDaze on January 15, 2010, 02:55 AM
Hey Chrispie,

As Tom says, "whatever works for you" is the goal, so given that...

This is what I've been using, by no means a perfect solution but I modified a pair of 'Prism Duo Straps' to make them a little closer to 'what I wanted'.

They suit a light to medium wind range, aI've discovered that in a bit more wind they put a strain on the fingers after a while.

(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd186/Witnessonly/Duostraps.jpg)

Again, I don't think there''s a one size fits all solution, so in that spirit I'm throwing this option into the mix  :)

Regards,

WD


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: randyg on January 15, 2010, 03:27 AM
Anybody have a pic of Dave's straps/torture devices? There would be no slippage with those. ;)

It is true my fingers slip off from time to time however the benefit of including the length of your fingers into the "input equation" far, far outweighs that issue. I would never go back to finger straps or anything else, ever. You lose so much control. Of course once the wind gets up I becomes more difficult and I resort to holding the straps without the fingers extended.

I build my own straps mostly our of Petzl webbing purchased at a nearby outfitter store:

(http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/44512/2183418310040952072S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2183418310040952072enhwPR)

Most comfy straps I've ever tried.

YMMV.  :)


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: thief on January 15, 2010, 04:12 AM
when I first started working in a kite shop I came in one day and my boss tossed me a pair of straps....."I know that you will use these" she said to me....
1.5" wide leather straps with a big metal D ring....
I have been flying on them now for 12 years easily and these are still my favorite straps to fly on.....
in lighter winds I will put my wrist through the strap and let th rest hang loose....then if I pop an Axel the weight of the ring gives a nice big centrifugal kick to the pop....double axels are nothing!!!and triples on the right day are possible too....(bruising about the knuckles are a possibility as well)
in higher winds I hold the straps by pinching the sawn area with my thumb and forefinger....
now:
1) I am not a new school trick flyer so I am not certain if these straps would hinder at all
2)I am not a precision flyer....my lines are probably not the same length at all....and the straps are no longer the same length either....
3)they have molded to my hands and wrists over the years and fit - well like a glove ;)
they were originally sent as a sales sample but the guy wanted llike 15$ a pair to him and 30$ to sell them.....yeah how many fliers are going to pay that for a stretchy pair of straps???
gotta find the pix i took of them...
r


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: RobB on January 15, 2010, 04:13 AM
Hey CP...
Whatever works... I use the RandyG/Prism method most, keeping you finger on the leader gives the ultimate control. In light winds, I'll use the pinky loop if the starps have it, but I still keep a finger on the leader.
Sometimes, if I'm in a rush, only have a 1/2 hour to fly, I just grab the lines and fly, Dodd style. It takes 10 or 15 seconds to loop your hands/fingers through... that's wasted flying time !  :D
~Rob.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: jaydub on January 15, 2010, 05:24 AM
I flew for 6 months quite happily until somebody made a negative comment about my wrist straps.

Since then I've spent a small fortune trying to find the optimum strap and I'm still searching.  I like to feel connected to the line, so I either use short finger straps around my ring and pinky fingers in light winds or short wrist straps around my wrist in stronger winds.

The best advice I can give is to just get out and fly on whatever straps you've got in the way that is most comfortable for you. :-\


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: chrispie on January 15, 2010, 06:20 AM
im so happy to have so many replies! Thanks all..

i guess like what many bro said here.. find something that works.. haha..

I had never tried using the 'finger on leader line' style until that day.. i tot it works amazingly.. just a quick flick of the wrists and here is a beautiful and clean half axel.. very small movement, but very effective. Only that it became quite a task to keep finger there in the first place.. esp on high wind. I think somehow that grip forces you to use more wrist movements than forearm.. and an expert in my area also commented that its all in the wrists... I guess somehow that clicked..

Now I just need to mod a handle to make the kind of finger on line hold easier...


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: lasapcheong on January 15, 2010, 06:40 AM
Hey Chris, here's a general rule of thumb that applies to the human body  :)

Wrist will always be faster than the arm
Arm will always be faster than your legs (unless you are Usain Bolt that is).

Incorporating wrist into your trick input will help greatly. Just be careful not to stress them too much. Wrists are pretty strong and immediate but can be vulnerable to injuries at the same time :)

-Darryl


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: mikenchico on January 15, 2010, 07:02 AM
What I did for years is wrist straps but instead of placing a finger out at the end or on the line I inserted my index finger through the D ring to the first knuckle, it takes a decent size D ring and does blister you sometimes. I even did this with Hawaiian Team Kites and Flexi Foil 8's, flying off just the index finger (yeah they are about an inch longer then the rest now). But I still found I would drop a strap at times even with them around my wrist since I wasn't gripping the rest of the strap.

I'm currently trying to switch to the finger strap method, around my pinky & ring finger and grasping the strap between thumb & index. I find I don't drop a strap with this method but sometimes get a sore pinky from the sideways pull on it's upper joint.

Whatever works for you is the right way. I have a set of "Good Grips" you could try, they have a padded wrist strap and a handle, will fill a good size bag and weigh a pound or two.



Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: chrispie on January 15, 2010, 08:47 AM
its a pity i didnt notice that JoE sells straps too.. would had bought a set and have him sent over with the Talon... :'(


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: sluggo on January 15, 2010, 08:58 AM
No pity, he doesn't sell them directly anyway  ;)

its a pity i didnt notice that JoE sells straps too.. would had bought a set and have him sent over with the Talon... :'(


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: Allen Carter on January 15, 2010, 11:04 AM
I most often use wrist straps held with the loop around a couple of fingers.

Most "finger" straps are too short and I end up with thumb or forefinger rubbing against the seams. The real nice JOE straps too, though I use the single loop JOEs on one lineset.

Some of my favorite handles are made from soft rope, maybe 1/4". Just a bigger version of using sleeved loops on your fingers.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: thief on January 15, 2010, 11:36 AM
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_tbYkV1FmtY4/SaaJYKSeY3I/AAAAAAAANUE/i1FQYDJTeA4/s400/indoor%20handles%204.JPG)

there are 2 sets of my favorite indoor/light wind handles.....just larkshead onto the end of the line and you are good to go! the ball is in your palm and very comfortable....
i know that some people fly on handles like this all the time too..


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: ko on January 15, 2010, 04:53 PM
rob thanx for not continuing to polish your balls on the forum


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: ae on March 04, 2010, 07:47 AM
Let me throw my method into the ring of options.

For light wind flying i use a pair of the tiny kitec straps, which are about 1/4" wide.
Now, make the vulcan greeting, slide the loops of the straps over the ring and little finger,
rest the line loop against the index finger and hold it there with the thumb.

This gives a very nice direct contact to the flying line and the placement of the loops can take
up the actual load.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: Will Sturdy on March 04, 2010, 08:55 AM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/3219544534_3e43d568eb.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22809394@N08/3219544534/in/photostream/)

This is how I solved the problem of fingers slipping off. I think Dave Smith did something like this as well. They are shaped such that the strap runs along my first two fingers. You can really feel the kite and have much better connection with these straps.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: Ken Bour on June 18, 2012, 07:27 AM
I know that this thread is old, but I didn't see the method I learned from Gomberg's book, "Stunt Kites" (see image).

Does anyone use this technique?

Ken

(http://db.tt/NzFjoEOH)

Note: Edited 6/27/2012 to replace attachment with image link


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: red sweater on June 18, 2012, 07:46 AM
Interesting. Both the wife and I have had wrist pains from operating keyboards, so I take that warning seriously.

I'm new to the forum, so I hadn't seen this yet. Mike's description sounds like what I've been doing lately: strap around the wrist, index finger into the d ring. However, I am short, and I have short fingers. I find more animated motions cause the slack in the wrist strap to allow the strap to slide over my wrist, down to my fingers. So I am looking for a better way. I'll give this Gomberg technique a try. Looks like you'd lose some sensitivity to the line tension, though. (Not that I've developed that sensitivity yet.) I might move on to finger straps if I don't like it.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: Ken Bour on June 18, 2012, 08:06 AM
I took two pics of the strap to illustrate what I am interpreting from Gomberg's description.

Like Red Sweater, I also do not have much touch/sensitivity and the kite I am currently flying is an intermediate Skynasaur (Trooper) from the 1980's. Yesterday, I flew it in 10+ MPH gusty winds and this strap technique seemed to work pretty well. No stress on the hand or fingers and no fatigue after 3 hours or so, but also no fancy execution with the kite - just basic maneuvers.

Ken

P.S. My avatar pic shows me holding the straps differently - before I reread Gomberg's advice!  :-[

(http://db.tt/9a7N1KsK) (http://db.tt/pQuQKzal)

Note: Edited 6/27/2012 to replace attachments with image links


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: DD on June 18, 2012, 08:54 AM
the only way i use that technique is if i have my finger straps. I will put my straps between the spots that the gomberg book suggests; not all the way onto my wrist but not that far up my hand. Or I will wrap them around my bottom three fingers and bring the the strap up to grip between my index finger and thumb.
I doubt i could get a good feeling by holding it between my two fingers without the finger straps


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: cerfvoliste on June 18, 2012, 09:41 AM
No mater what else I try, I always come back to Prisim Duo's. I miss the old black ones, they just seem to fit me better, but the red and grey ones work fine. I don't like "D" rings at all, it makes it hard to have your index finger tips on the line.
CV


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: Ara Ararauna on June 18, 2012, 10:55 AM
([url]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/3219544534_3e43d568eb.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/22809394@N08/3219544534/in/photostream/[/url])

This is how I solved the problem of fingers slipping off. I think Dave Smith did something like this as well. They are shaped such that the strap runs along my first two fingers. You can really feel the kite and have much better connection with these straps.


These look awsome.
Do you plan on manufacturing and selling them in larger quantities?
However, they don't seem to adhere to the Gomberg warning scheme...

N.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: Boats13 on November 30, 2014, 10:38 PM
I can't find any pictures of Mr. Norm's straps. Help?
I should probably just pm np...

C.T.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: missionview on December 05, 2014, 03:33 PM
No mater what else I try, I always come back to Prisim Duo's. I miss the old black ones, they just seem to fit me better, but the red and grey ones work fine. I don't like "D" rings at all, it makes it hard to have your index finger tips on the line.
CV

Prism Duos straps work best for me.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: RobB on December 05, 2014, 06:33 PM
Prism Duos straps work best for me.
Prism Duos have finally ran me out of business. I just couldn't compete with the quality or color selection they provided. Then they drove the final nail in my coffin when they introduced the adjustable line-equalizer. I can't thank them enough.


   
Oh, IDK, Norm... I have at least 10 sets of Prism straps that I never use. I have 3 sets of your straps and one set of Lam's that are permanently attached to my goto linesets. All I use, ever.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: Charles P on December 05, 2014, 07:12 PM
+1 on Robs statement. I only use Norms straps anymore. Sad to hear that your not making them anymore   :'(  What are Rob and I to do if we wear out our straps?!?    ???

 I prefer finger straps and usually put them around my ring and middle fingers.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: tempest on December 06, 2014, 07:39 AM
What I did for years is wrist straps but instead of placing a finger out at the end or on the line I inserted my index finger through the D ring to the first knuckle, it takes a decent size D ring and does blister you sometimes. I even did this with Hawaiian Team Kites and Flexi Foil 8's, flying off just the index finger (yeah they are about an inch longer then the rest now). But I still found I would drop a strap at times even with them around my wrist since I wasn't gripping the rest of the strap.

I'm currently trying to switch to the finger strap method, around my pinky & ring finger and grasping the strap between thumb & index. I find I don't drop a strap with this method but sometimes get a sore pinky from the sideways pull on it's upper joint.

Whatever works for you is the right way. I have a set of "Good Grips" you could try, they have a padded wrist strap and a handle, will fill a good size bag and weigh a pound or two.




Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: RobB on December 06, 2014, 07:01 PM
Norm, the linesets might wear out, but I'm sure the straps never will. I only use the wriststraps (not yours) when the wind is too high for the finger straps. All my light wind linesets have your straps on them...


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: dayhiker on December 07, 2014, 06:29 PM
Prism Duos straps work best for me.
Prism Duos have finally ran me out of business. I just couldn't compete with the quality or color selection they provided. Then they drove the final nail in my coffin when they introduced the adjustable line-equalizer. I can't thank them enough.
I too have wondered what would eventually become the best way for me to connect to the kite.  Tried many types the last couple years & seem to be holding the straps very close to the connection to the line except for strong pull situations.  On short line sets or light lines I have now abandoned straps of any kind & just put the sleeved loops over my ring fingers & hold the line pinched between my thumb & forefinger with the line running off my fingertip for sensitivity.  Recently used a Prism line set with the Duo straps & the adjustable line-equalizer.  It was funny because I did not know about this new feature & just thought "Wow, look at dem leaders".  Well I launch the kite & quickly realize I should have checked the line set for equalization.  Prism's new record for me personally is the line set a whopping six inches off.  So what did I do?  Land & tie a big knot in the leader down line from the strap.  Later I realized the true function of the adjustable strap but equalized the line set the conventional way.  Appears Prism can now send out line sets with fourteen inch variations & expect the consumer to be satisfied with a handy but goofy adjustment in the field.  My gripping of straps will continue to evolve.  I will cut the excess leader line off my equalizer straps & use them for Rev handle leader lines.  The colors will be nice compared to the stock Rev black leader lines that they send out on their handles.


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: stapp59 on December 07, 2014, 09:41 PM
I normally do something simple with a little webbing and bridle line like this:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VQTE1B600qM/VIU4VA6fwOI/AAAAAAAAEoQ/oN1vLlv8KBU/s640/IMG_0271.JPG)[/url (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wWJpkBBDyrlPqQzv8xCC6NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0)


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: stapp59 on December 08, 2014, 05:44 PM
My post wasn't directed at anyone, simply sharing what works for me.  I chuckled at the number of references to the Prism Duos.  I like the strap, nice and simple, just a little long for finger straps. ;)

I normally do something simple with a little webbing and bridle line like this:
Trust me, if I had your sewing and building skills I wouldn't be messing with the likes of Flight Straps.  ;)


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: RobB on December 08, 2014, 06:29 PM
The old Prism Duos have a wrist strap & a pinky loop for light wind flying. They're pretty good, but I like the Norm Straps much better !


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: aaron j. on December 21, 2014, 06:12 PM
Thank you to every body that contributed to this thread. Today I flew using my new HQ finger straps and my Boas in the finger configuration.  I am not new to flying and can do tricks but after trying just my fingers I don't think I will go back to wrist straps unless I have my HW in the air. My inputs were so much more reactive!


Title: Re: Optimum way to hold the straps
Post by: aaron j. on December 22, 2014, 03:05 PM
Seriously I feel like I been missing out for the 2 yrs i have been kiting. Cant wait till it starts to warm up here on the East coast. Thank you Norm for the pictures demonstrating the technique of a finger on the line, I will have to give it a try next time out.