GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: siajauren on February 09, 2010, 05:53 PM



Title: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: siajauren on February 09, 2010, 05:53 PM
Beware of copy Aerobe, Starting bloom. Please becareful very bad Quality

(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/Copyaerobe2.jpg)

(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/CopyAerobe3.jpg)

(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/COPYAEROBE.jpg)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: TGunn on February 10, 2010, 01:04 PM
Yep, that's the infamous Tan Bo from Weifang, China that manages a kite factory there. That factory makes illegal copies of many kite brands. Recently, one of my friends saw that they were also making Fake Rev 1.5 B's and Midvents. My friend bought two of them and sent them to Rev and reported them to Ben at Revolution Kites.

Tan Bo has no shame! He and the factory even steal kites designed from legitmate Chinese kite factories. Many dedicated kiters including myself that actually know Tan Bo, have told him to stop making illegal copies, but he doesn't care as long as the factory makes a profit. >:(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: thief on February 10, 2010, 02:20 PM
My friend bought two of them and sent them to Rev and reported them to Ben at Revolution Kites.
ah...but as far as everything i have seen/read/chatted about there is nothing that Ben can do since they are in China.....

BTW - This is the same Weifang, China kite factory that Peter Lynn kites has make most of their smaller mass produced kites.
I read a really interesting article about the world of phone/mp3 player/electronics copying....the day shift would make the REAL product and then at night another shift would come in and produce the same items for other company names.....the exact same stuff......amazing...seems that you have to get a GREAT factory to work with and probably pay them out the nose to keep them from doing this......



Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: KiteLife on February 11, 2010, 10:10 PM
They've done more than make copies...

From what I've heard from a number of my own reliable sources in Asia, they've actually done counterfeit B-Series complete with Rev logo and my signature.

No shame indeed, they don't give a &$%#@&, real Jabba the Hut mentality.  >:(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: zippy8 on February 11, 2010, 11:22 PM
"My good friend from Weifang, Mr. Tan Xin Bo..." Troy Gunn, KiteLife 43 (http://www.kitelife.com/magazine/issue43/weifang05/content.php).

"It is always great to catch up with Tan Xin Bo..." Steve Donovan, KiteLife 60 (http://www.kitelife.com/magazine/issue60/weifang08/content.php).

Sounds like a great bloke...  ???

Mike.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: bell on February 12, 2010, 12:41 AM
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4345843514_45f3ab281f_o.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3Tm_CTQQ5I/AAAAAAAAAz0/MgceCFVtQrY/s800/DSC00128.jpg)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3Tm_ORymyI/AAAAAAAAAz4/FQgOhavEB34/s800/20048_336041267817_694262817_4797528_4645088_n.jpg)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3Tm_YX6kRI/AAAAAAAAA0A/S6dkzf7kB_A/s800/6252_1203373167627_1327555205_30587281_295182_n.jpg)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3Tm_QSd_UI/AAAAAAAAA0E/ReyrBv37ltg/s800/6252_1203373207628_1327555205_30587282_5063605_n.jpg)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3TnWuHMqqI/AAAAAAAAA0I/wI3WU_lhxbw/s800/6252_1203373247629_1327555205_30587283_324814_n.jpg)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3TnW91Im9I/AAAAAAAAA0M/ZK-2xpzMubo/s800/6252_1203373287630_1327555205_30587284_7428144_n.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3Tm_Wq7I5I/AAAAAAAAAz8/-mzM-Ckehcg/s800/6252_1203370527561_1327555205_30587216_918562_n.jpg)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: lasapcheong on February 12, 2010, 01:00 AM
Some history on the pictures Bell posted. If I'm not wrong, the 2nd - 4th Pictures from the bottom were taken from a kite festival in Malaysia last August 2009. The Aerobe clones I believe are still non existent yet. Fella was going around intently scanning the design on the Aerobe and HQ Horvath Hybrid into his head.

Recently just last weekend (February 2010) in another kite festival in Malaysia (where the OP's pictures were taken), the Aerobe clones made their first apperance. Fast eh?

The dual line stunt kite at the very bottom I'm sure some of you will recognize - Clone of Flying Wing's Soul

The saddest thing that I have seen so far is that not just the cloning of the kites alone, the fothermucker seems to be quite popular with some of the regular clique of the kite community at the festivals here. $$$ talks I guess.  ::)

-Darryl


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: TGunn on February 12, 2010, 01:38 AM
"My good friend from Weifang, Mr. Tan Xin Bo..." Troy Gunn, KiteLife 43 ([url]http://www.kitelife.com/magazine/issue43/weifang05/content.php[/url]).

"It is always great to catch up with Tan Xin Bo..." Steve Donovan, KiteLife 60 ([url]http://www.kitelife.com/magazine/issue60/weifang08/content.php[/url]).

Sounds like a great bloke...  ???

Mike.


That was back before we found out the crap he and his factory were doing.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: TGunn on February 12, 2010, 01:45 AM
Yep, that's the infamous Tan Bo from Weifang, China that manages a kite factory there. That factory makes illegal copies of many kite brands. Recently, one of my friends saw that they were also making Fake Rev 1.5 B's and Midvents. My friend bought two of them and sent them to Rev and reported them to Ben at Revolution Kites.

Tan Bo has no shame! He and the factory even steal kites designed from legitmate Chinese kite factories. Many dedicated kiters including myself that actually know Tan Bo, have told him to stop making illegal copies, but he doesn't care as long as the factory makes a profit. >:(



Fake Revolution from TAN XIN BO

([url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/Revcopy1.jpg[/url])


Troy Have you ever seen this???????

Detail refer to following Link

[url]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30981424&id=1212228674&fbid=1327755953275[/url] ([url]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30981424&id=1212228674&fbid=1327755953275[/url])

[url]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30981424&id=1212228674&fbid=1327755953275#[/url] ([url]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30981424&id=1212228674&fbid=1327755953275#[/url])!/photo.php?pid=30981423&id=1212228674&fbid=1327755913274





Sia ,
Yea I saw a pic of that one and another one recently.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: KiteLife on February 12, 2010, 12:38 PM
Golly that's a horrible looking copy... See the striping in the black fabric?

Ugh.

I wanna kick someone in the nuts.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: anOldMan on February 13, 2010, 04:05 AM
Someone must be selling these kites knowing that they are copies. Maybe there is the place to try and stop the buying and selling of copies

And it is not just the Orient that is doing this. There is a company in Germany that has been coping SLK and will not stop.

I would really hate the legel community to get involved via copy right laws but it maybe the only alternative.  :'(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: imarche on February 13, 2010, 04:30 AM
The other pictures were took by Chua Lin(imarche) during last year 5th Borneo IKF 2009. Chua and I saw "it" picked up that gray Aerobe and start scanning...
Eric

Hey Eric,
No wonder the photos looked so familiar! Remember our conversation last August at Bintulu when we saw "IT" picking up the Aerobe? 6 months down the road and the "Copy-be" is out. Guess the Horvath Hybrid is next....

Guess "IT" is getting a huge coverage on Facebook and the forums now. The more ppl are aware, the better it is for the community.

In the single line show kites/inflatables arena, I'd guess copying is more difficult given that each is unique. What I heard  is that "IT" is a manufacturer for some of the brands..From some hearsay, he manufactures for one of the most recognizable designers in this field. He is very popular in Asia region as the kite festivals here are centered around single line show kites and he manufactures for anyone and supplies materials as well. It's the sport kite (2/4  lines included) community that is fuming...

Chua



Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: lasapcheong on February 13, 2010, 06:09 AM
I just can't understand... China herself has ton of beautiful and unique kites. Like their most famous eagle hovering kites that can fly and glide in no wind to high wind like real eagle. Why not develop their own kites, like inventing their kites more durable and lasting, using carbon fiber frames and ripstop fabric instead of bamboo and paper... instead of copy other foreign kites? Shame... I myself feel embarrassed cause I'm a Chinese or an Asian too...

Eric, you don't have to feel embarrassed. This is not an issue with the colour of our skin, but rather the colour of greed manifesting in Mr Boo's eyes.

Guess "IT" is getting a huge coverage on Facebook and the forums now. The more ppl are aware, the better it is for the community.

I guess the issue of pissing off only stunt kite fliers and makers may change with the coming on his Aerobe clones for now. Truthfully, I'm not sure how many kite fliers out there do have a facebook account and peruse the forums for this to have a TAN-gible impact hahaha  :-X

What I think may work would be to make a T-Shirt that says something like "Down with counterfeit kites" or something like that and wear it at kite festivals.

No I'm not joking. I'm deadpan serious. A Protest T-Shirt  >:(

-Darryl


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: JimB on February 15, 2010, 09:32 PM
Enough with the "IT" already.

The guy may be a kite counterfeiter but he is still a person for crying out loud.

Just because one individual does something reprehensible doesn't mean another should follow suit.

jeeze..


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: dino.auo on February 16, 2010, 05:50 AM
Another way is stop invites him to participate in any kite event.  :-X :-X


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: JMartJr on February 17, 2010, 01:37 PM
Not to horn in on Darryls idea, but for what it is worth, here's a bash at a design....

<<URL redacted pending clarification of whther this is allowed...>>

Currently I've got it markd up only $1, to help pay for the abillity of my store to have multiple items.

Am looking at a sport-kite related design, and if there is interest I'll add more options.

Wanted to start with a generic kite, and not have it look too much like anybody's particualr item...

Offered FWIW...


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: Stardragon on February 19, 2010, 04:15 PM
Enough with the "IT" already.

The guy may be a kite counterfeiter but he is still a person for crying out loud.

Unrepentant counterfeiters have lost the right to be considered a person.

Ron


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: 711jrp on February 19, 2010, 05:39 PM
Am looking at a sport-kite related design, and if there is interest I'll add more options.

Hey just a thought why don't you use a picture of Rons Machine, shawns Viper or Daves Instigator.

I'm with Jim on this,leave the poor fella alone.Look at you lot all jumping up and down, you should clean your own house first.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: siajauren on February 24, 2010, 07:55 AM
Next Copy Kite will do by this Fella

Following Photo is still in proto type in my hand, the fella was scanned into his mind, Next "IT" copy kite will be in kite festival.
Please be careful, I am sure this kite will be in some place for sales 

(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/17102009218.jpg)

(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/17102009216.jpg)


Follow is the video fly


http://vid388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/17102009017.flv (http://vid388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/17102009017.flv)"
 


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: thief on February 24, 2010, 08:03 AM
very neat looking...........i am trying to get the video now...


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: siajauren on February 24, 2010, 08:04 AM

The following copy Kite In his hand as follow photo

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_c6oDJl54vjc/S3Tm_ORymyI/AAAAAAAAAz4/FQgOhavEB34/s800/20048_336041267817_694262817_4797528_4645088_n.jpg)

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :'( :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: thief on February 24, 2010, 08:07 AM
http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/?action=view&current=17102009017.flv (http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo322/siajauren/?action=view&current=17102009017.flv)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: 711jrp on February 24, 2010, 09:07 AM
PLEASE someone tell me that's an official Rev in siajaurens video album.





















Let he without sin cast the first stone!!


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: KaoS on February 24, 2010, 04:12 PM
PLEASE someone tell me that's an official Rev in siajaurens video album.

Let he without sin cast the first stone!!

I doubt it is any more official than any of Lam Hoac's "Revs" that he has entered into AKA kite making competitions, or Kevin Sanders KaoS "Revs" that I fly in kite festivals around the world, or any number of other custom "Revs" that people have made for personal use over the years.  But the vast majority of us don't make these kites for profitable sale, and we definitely don't counterfeit the kites and pretend they are genuine Revs.

In my own case, I can assure you I have purchased a genuine Rev for each skin I have made, and used all the fittings from the purchased Rev to complete my own.  (I can't speak for Lam, but the frames and fittings on his kites are genuine Rev).  I have also never sold a custom sail.  Does this justify my actions?  Maybe not, but I do feel it demonstrates a genuine attempt on my part to acknowledge the manufacturer's right to compensation for a currently available product.

AND!!!  I have taken the time and courtesy to speak to Revolution about my use of my own sails.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: 711jrp on February 24, 2010, 05:17 PM
   
Kevin, I agree with you on every point you made 100% without a shadow of doubt, in fact it seems your ethics are very much in line with mine.I too have made quite a few custom revs check out my avatar, some that caused quite a stir with the Rev faithful on the other forum. I have never sold one for a profit in any way, if any money changed hands it was to cover costs and that's all.I too only use rev frames and fittings.BUT....
 
I've got broad shoulders so here goes.
I believe that with every one of our rev that takes to the sky something is stolen from Rev;
With a complete rip off it the price of a complete rev,
with one that uses a Rev frame it's the price of the sail,
and in your case where you have bought a complete Rev it's product placement in the market place. Now on the face of it that doesn't sound too bad but it's just telling people it's OK to buy a complete rip off.
Well do I care? quite frankly I don't, you have to do what you're comfortable with,as I eluded to in my earlier post the whole kite industry is based somewhat in pauperism.
 
All I am saying is if you are going to vilify someone, you better make sure you are whiter than snow and not some dodgy grey colour as he now looks.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: KaoS on February 24, 2010, 11:02 PM
   
I've got broad shoulders so here goes.
I believe that with every one of our rev that takes to the sky something is stolen from Rev;

with one that uses a Rev frame it's the price of the sail and in your case where you have bought a complete Rev it's product placement in the market place. Now on the face of it that doesn't sound too bad but it's just telling people it's OK to buy a complete rip off.


I genuinely don't know where to draw the line... but consider this scenario. 

I buy a BMW motor car and drive it around for a few months.  Then I decide to buy some fancy (non BMW) wheels for it, some (non BMW) shockers and exhaust system, an after market carbon body kite (non BMW) and get it painted a totally different colour at a local repair shop.  To recoup some of the costs, I sell the original parts. 

Have I stolen something from BMW?  By your reckoning, maybe I have, and honestly it isn't something I've considered before.  Talk about shades of grey!  :)
 


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: 711jrp on February 25, 2010, 02:10 AM
I'm liking you more and more Kevin lol

It' funny that you should use this as an example because BMW did in fact take a load of firms to court over here in the 90s for doing just that.BMW stated they were bringing their name into disrepute.Now they were firms and not private individuals.BMW won.

How about if you took a 540 sport v8 and put it in your ute,no foul? Rolls Royce took a fella from round my corner to court over that and and won, It was very well published in the 70s.

All I'm saying is they shouldn't pick one fella out, while others can do the same thing and get away with it because they are well liked kite builders.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: thief on February 25, 2010, 04:45 AM
one of the bigger things to remember specifically about Rev's is that for many years now they have allowed you to make your own version....not for sale but for personal use......you used to be able to purchase an emblem to verify that you had checked with them on your own kite....and that memory is still in a lot of kite builder's minds....
i know that if you were lucky enough to get Sabby to make you a skin you had to provide him a rev to switch out....i think that idea works just fine here....


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: 711jrp on February 25, 2010, 05:07 AM
I am aware of the logo purchasing thing, in fact Rev have even put a leading edge on and finished a skin for people for a price.

You have to understand Rev are smart, very smart and that policy is just damage limitation.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: kiten00b on February 28, 2010, 12:01 AM
I've got broad shoulders so here goes.
I believe that with every one of our rev that takes to the sky something is stolen from Rev;
With a complete rip off it the price of a complete rev,
with one that uses a Rev frame it's the price of the sail,
and in your case where you have bought a complete Rev it's product placement in the market place. Now on the face of it that doesn't sound too bad but it's just telling people it's OK to buy a complete rip off.
so, if I make a 4 oz cheeseburger at home, I'm taking $ out of McDonalds' pockets?


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: 711jrp on February 28, 2010, 02:45 AM
If the only other option in the world to get your hands on a cheeseburger was to buy it from McDs because they had the market sewn up like Rev than sure you are.Now we all know that's not the case.So maybe you should go away and think about it for a few more days and come up with a even more dumb example.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: zippy8 on March 01, 2010, 07:01 PM
I believe that with every one of our rev that takes to the sky something is stolen from Rev;
With a complete rip off it the price of a complete rev,
I am not of the belief that every Rev-copy represents a lost sale of a genuine Rev. I hold it to be true that many people who would not consider the purchase of one of these kites, for whatever reason they wish to put forward, both are happy and capable of putting a close enough approximation together for themselves.

I know I did.

The kite that I made a long time ago did not represent a lost sale to Rev because it was a kite that at the time was not available. It's long since dead anyway.

Mike.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: thief on March 02, 2010, 04:51 AM
I believe that with every one of our rev that takes to the sky something is stolen from Rev;
With a complete rip off it the price of a complete rev,
I am not of the belief that every Rev-copy represents a lost sale of a genuine Rev. I hold it to be true that many people who would not consider the purchase of one of these kites, for whatever reason they wish to put forward, both are happy and capable of putting a close enough approximation together for themselves.


Mike.
i agree with mike here.....i might make myself a revolution shaped kite....but i am not about to go and purchase one.....and i am not about to sell one i make either so rev is not loosing anything from me....since i was not going to be getting anything from them....


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: browndude3649 on March 02, 2010, 07:15 AM
I forget what dilect is the most popular in china mandarin or cantonese? Maybe a "counterfeit kites suck" in chinese scrip on a t-shirt.
What does "IT" mean?
counterfeit kites suck


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: 711jrp on March 02, 2010, 04:16 PM
Re Zippy/Thief
Like I said I have done the exact same thing as you and I believe I stole at least something from Rev and I'm man enough to admit it.You say it's OK because you wouldn't be purchasing anything from them,but you didn't mind taking their R and D for nothing.

I forget what dilect is the most popular in china mandarin or cantonese? Maybe a "counterfeit kites suck" in chinese scrip on a t-shirt.
What does "IT" mean?
counterfeit kites suck

Good idea, but can we have something like"but it's OK for us to do it, USA rocks" in English on the back with maybe a picture of Mark with his STepher.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: thief on March 02, 2010, 06:23 PM
i have not made a rev.....there are thoughts about it in my mind but i have not done so...
when they started to offer up their rev emblem for homemade ones they obviously were not worried about someone using their r&d....
back to the original post.......there are probably more than enough rev-rehashes on the internet already!


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: browndude3649 on March 02, 2010, 06:56 PM
Re Zippy/Thief
Like I said I have done the exact same thing as you and I believe I stole at least something from Rev and I'm man enough to admit it.You say it's OK because you wouldn't be purchasing anything from them,but you didn't mind taking their R and D for nothing.

I forget what dilect is the most popular in china mandarin or cantonese? Maybe a "counterfeit kites suck" in chinese scrip on a t-shirt.
What does "IT" mean?
counterfeit kites suck

Good idea, but can we have something like"but it's OK for us to do it, USA rocks" in English on the back with maybe a picture of Mark with his STepher.

I was thinking TEAM AMERICA F*** YEAH !
good idea tho


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: xuzme720 on March 02, 2010, 08:43 PM
Or "freedom costs a buck-o-five"...


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: zippy8 on March 02, 2010, 08:43 PM
Re Zippy
Like I said I have done the exact same thing as you and I believe I stole at least something from Rev and I'm man enough to admit it.You say it's OK....
I don't recall doing that.

All I said was that it didn't represent a lost sale to Rev and that is wholly accurate.

Mike.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: fworley on March 02, 2010, 09:04 PM

This is developing into quite the most interesting thread here ... in ... oh God .. as long as I can remember  :D

-Frazer


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: JimB on March 02, 2010, 10:17 PM
What was the topic and why do I feel the overwhelming compulsion to send all my kites to Z8?

 ???


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: anOldMan on March 02, 2010, 10:33 PM
What was the topic and why do I feel the overwhelming compulsion to send all my kites to Z8?

 ???

Because he is such a nice person and he loves new toys to write reviews about.  :D ;)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: Carlton on March 03, 2010, 05:07 AM
What was the topic and why do I feel the overwhelming compulsion to send all my kites to Z8?

 ???


I....I feel the same way......a voice......"send all your kites to Mike, send all your kites to Mike...".   ???


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: xuzme720 on March 03, 2010, 06:48 AM
I just feel very relaxed and sleepy... ::)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: zippy8 on March 03, 2010, 10:30 AM
Aha... it's working  ;D Excellent.

Mike,
you should see some of the others. (http://dvdp.tumblr.com/)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: Lex B on March 05, 2010, 02:05 PM
they obviously were not worried about someone using their r&d
I even dare say Rev benefited from inventions and ideas worked out by some [of us] who tried copying a rev for personal use, and adding a bit "of them selves".


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: JimB on March 05, 2010, 09:27 PM
My laptop nearly exploded it got so hot from running that page..

 :o ::)

Aha... it's working  ;D Excellent.

Mike,
you should see some of the others. ([url]http://dvdp.tumblr.com/[/url])


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: n893 on July 02, 2010, 07:12 AM
Tan is making super bad image of china... and he push young kite maker in china to bad corner... we all had to banned him to come to kite festival arround... because even he didnt show his copy kite... he will try to copy every kite he saw...

Please dont let this happend any longer...
 :-[ :-[ :-[


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: crunchie on July 02, 2010, 08:07 AM
Sadly, there is not much you can do about the problem in general.

Trademark, copyright etc... its very difficult to have those respected in other countries. Sure there are treaties and such, but to enforce them is very very costly. I'd be surprised if Rev, which is one of the top kite producer, would have even close to that kind of cash lying around to sue international.

Basically, when you start making goods that are much more expensive than the material it takes to build it, you should know that if you are successful eventually you will be copied by China. You just have to take it into account. You can't hide it, you can be in denial mode however you want, the problem is not going to go away.

If your business plan took that into account in the first place, then you have nothing to worry about.

If you never took that into account and its killing your business... well... you probably should of given it some thought before dumping all that cash to start up your business, its not 100% the fault of Tan Bo ;)

Its like shoplifting. Its illegal, and it will never stop, but stores take it into account and they calculate it in their business plan.

I'm not saying that its right, I'm just saying that there is not much you can do about it, except analyze it and try to figure out if your company can survive even though it exists (and will continue to exist). If you did a good job about it, you will manage.

On the other hand, I do not even go into the debate of what happens if you do not protect (patent) your inventions correctly and someone legally copies your kite [or whatever you made]. We can always debate that its immoral. But its clearly not illegal, they should be allowed to sell it.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: n893 on July 05, 2010, 05:55 AM
it's just super dupper Immoral act of Tan... he should realize how young generation will become if he still do that...
 :( :( :(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: try1897 on July 10, 2010, 12:17 AM
     Ok .. Someone go to McGills warehouse / Great American  and look over the kites sold there ??????? I got a stunt kite for 10 bucks plus shipping and flew it today and it thunders. The kite pulls a ton and roars as it dives ( cool sound ) so looking it over the quality looks fine and well made  It's the K44 model and is 8'7" x 27.5"  so it's a big kite ...Heres the thing I'm new to stunt kites and last year I got an X kite from Wallyworld a small stunt kite that I couldn't fly to save my a** and gave up . I'd spent 20 dollars for it and never got it to fly. Along the way I got a bunch of single line stuff and have been having a blast doing that . All the while thinking that stunters were just out of my ability. So along comes a 2 line parafoil from McGills and I got one cheep and started fooling around with it and soon got good enough to fly it and have fun with just the pull of the thing. It's a 3M x 1M parafoil that costs nearly nothing. I did spring for quality lines as the ones that come with it are rather cheeze. Anyway that led to another try at stunt flying and so I ordered the K44 and found out I can fly stunt kites all be it a bit shaky I can keep the kite in the air most of the time and like I said it Roars and Pulls a ton and is lots of Fun. Now that kite is 10 dollars or so and has got to be from China... No name or numbers of anykind on it. But it's all I can afford for a kite that I didn't even think I could fly in the first place. and now I'm able to so are you guys mad at me for my stupidity and the fact that I'm poor and live on disability in the slums..... Lots of us that strugle to pay the bills don't have 2 or 3 hundred to drop on a kite. Were it not for the cheepie stuff  there would be no stuff at all and I'd be sitting over ther watching you guy's with a tear in my eye. Tom ....60 years old this year


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: ezme6 on July 10, 2010, 05:19 AM
+1  :)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: n893 on July 10, 2010, 06:12 AM
dilemma... :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: lasapcheong on July 10, 2010, 06:34 AM
     Ok .. Someone go to McGills warehouse / Great American  and look over the kites sold there ??????? I got a stunt kite for 10 bucks plus shipping and flew it today and it thunders. The kite pulls a ton and roars as it dives ( cool sound ) so looking it over the quality looks fine and well made  It's the K44 model and is 8'7" x 27.5"  so it's a big kite ...Heres the thing I'm new to stunt kites and last year I got an X kite from Wallyworld a small stunt kite that I couldn't fly to save my a** and gave up . I'd spent 20 dollars for it and never got it to fly. Along the way I got a bunch of single line stuff and have been having a blast doing that . All the while thinking that stunters were just out of my ability. So along comes a 2 line parafoil from McGills and I got one cheep and started fooling around with it and soon got good enough to fly it and have fun with just the pull of the thing. It's a 3M x 1M parafoil that costs nearly nothing. I did spring for quality lines as the ones that come with it are rather cheeze. Anyway that led to another try at stunt flying and so I ordered the K44 and found out I can fly stunt kites all be it a bit shaky I can keep the kite in the air most of the time and like I said it Roars and Pulls a ton and is lots of Fun. Now that kite is 10 dollars or so and has got to be from China... No name or numbers of anykind on it. But it's all I can afford for a kite that I didn't even think I could fly in the first place. and now I'm able to so are you guys mad at me for my stupidity and the fact that I'm poor and live on disability in the slums..... Lots of us that strugle to pay the bills don't have 2 or 3 hundred to drop on a kite. Were it not for the cheepie stuff  there would be no stuff at all and I'd be sitting over ther watching you guy's with a tear in my eye. Tom ....60 years old this year

Tom have a very valid point. Legitimacy of copyright in kites has been a long and outstanding topic that is slowly getting old but one side effect of it is that it makes the "serious flyers" kite scene a very clique-ish, exclusive and sometimes elitist phenomenon

-Darryl


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: try1897 on July 10, 2010, 08:15 AM
       So Has anyone checked out the McGills stuff? You know the only reason I got in this thread was because people just gotta know there are people like me that have little or know money to spend on this stuff and as long as thats so ,.....,.....well I just want you all to know about the other side of that coin   uh  fence uh and what it's like to live on the other side of town... That being said . I was in court once and the judge said , concerning stolen property, didn't you realize that when that guy offered to sell you a 500 dollar T.V. for 25 bucks that It might be stolen?    Well heres a kite for 10 dollars and change ....So .......Is it stolen ????? I have two of them right here in my livingroom and I really am wondering how it would be posible to sell a kite like this for 10 bucks  and still make a profit... This is strange but lets say this guy is lagit. He paid for a design and is having it made in China and selling it for 10 dollars... well that makes me think that if you pay 300 for a similar eight foot stunt kite you are padding someones bank account big time. Whats the profit margin gotta be on that?  Like I said this don't seem right...>>   ....Tom poor old Tom


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: st3307 on July 10, 2010, 08:26 AM
      well  Tom I  understand  Poor   been that way  most of my life   that being  said  the reason that you can pay 10 dollars and change on a copy  kite is because  there was  no R&D  put  into  plus  the craftmanship in itor should I say lack  there off    plus the  matrial used in it   plus  the   childen they used   to make  it  alot  of  copy cat makers    make  un safe  kite  and  use very  very  cheap   matrial  and  the  kite   do not   fly  like  the   origanls    IMHO   does  it  make  you a  bad  person  to  buy a  copy cat  kite    not  at all.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: ezme6 on July 10, 2010, 01:25 PM
Very well said Darryl... 8)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: try1897 on July 10, 2010, 08:08 PM
       I still want to hear what you guys think about the stunt kites being sold at McGillswarehouse / GreatAmerican  are they copys or notThe one in question is the K44for a sale price of $10.92 plus shipping. Is this a copy or not a copy???I can tell you it flys nice and pulls hard and thunders as it dives . The kite is nylon but not rip-stop. It is double stitched and the sewing is good. It seems to be a well made kite and should last.  Due to the fact that it is so large I was actually able to fly it reasonably well and I'm finally on the learning curve. Thats a plus in my book.Don't get me wrong I'm all for rights and whatnot of the designers but is it is or is it isn't a copy cat kite????  Poor Old Tom


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: crunchie on July 10, 2010, 09:03 PM
I don't think its a copy. I've seen the kite before on the field. Its ok to learn the basisc. Turn, land etc... In fact, good to learn landings, you won't be loosing much if you break the kite ;)

Except that, its heavy as hell, won't trick, and needs lots of wind. If you have never used a stunt kite, I think, for the price, its a good deal. But it will only get you so far.

And you will need lots of wind to get it going, its heavy as hell.

As long as its not a copy, I have no problem with cheap kites. Maybe thats whats going to get you hooked :) Its a cheap way to see if you are going to like kiting or not.




Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: try1897 on July 10, 2010, 09:29 PM
   Yea it's big and heavy but thats part of the thing. Check out Into the wind catalog page 8 and they sell a Kratos for 89 dollars . and I quote. Remember when the hottest stunt kites were anything but subtle? Big loud and hard pulling they were so much fun it was contagious. A big beast thats built to last the Kratos voices that old time excitement with a mighty roar.  It goes on to say rip stop nylon fiberglass spars 8'5"x3'6"16.8-oz.  Sounds like me all the way and at 89 dollars is almost within reach....But for now the 10 dollar 90 cent cousin really does pull a ton and roars when at speed and I find that cool as s**t ........Let me ask  is 16.8oz. heavy ?  I'll weigh the K44 and we'll see how it stacks up ....... By the way I like the hard pulling higher wind stuff and I'm building a kart for the 3 Meter parafoil to pull around... I may need a bigger one though....Poor Old Tom


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 10, 2010, 09:54 PM
I don't think its a copy.

Copy?  Maybe not.... frames are totally different, but the sail pattern is definitely familiar.

Pictures are K44 and HQ Maestro, respectively.

ATB,
Sam



[to save space attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: n893 on July 11, 2010, 04:42 AM
the bigges problems and concern is when copy cat in china copy a kite and sell in ebay or a web telling everyone it's original one... they sell it with very close price to it's original price...

and this already happend for many times...


 :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: Lex B on July 11, 2010, 06:47 AM
Cheap is not allways the same as Copied.  ;)
Some of the "high-end" manufacturers, also make cheaper kites [for instance Eolo 'Over' and 'Next' and a lot of kiddy-stuff  :-\] R&D included.
Most of the time, what you buy in a shop should not be a copy.


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: try1897 on July 11, 2010, 08:41 AM
      Hello to all , Many thanks to all of the people in this thread. I have learned alot and had many questions answered. This is one of those situations that we as a group must try and come to terms with and support the " honest"  kite makers as best we can . I now understand the difference between an inexpencive kite and a copy cat kite that was made to try and decive a person out of his /her money.  I now understand the difference and can and see that the line can sometimes blurr between the two . The inexpencive kites are there to fill a need in the market as beginner kites and also to supply a person such as myself who can illafford anything else. Yes I have had many questions answered but more than that I feel much better with myself for buying the cheaper stuff. I don't feel so guilty. Don't get me wrong it still sucks to be poor and have to decide between a kite and new jeans or shoes or a haircut for that matter. No there I go feeling sorry for myself again. Sorry bout that.......Poor Old  R A G G M O P P ----Raggmopp  Tom


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: n893 on July 15, 2010, 02:24 AM
Dear Tom... as long as you love flying your kite, rich or poor will still sharing same sky.

and will be great when u have cheap kite but can make it perform like boutique designer kite...
 :)




Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: skabt on August 01, 2010, 02:37 PM
Problem not only with the kite maker, user too, most of the pilot here (asia) don't respect IP, including those who make complaint abt copy kite making .......


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: kitenut75 on August 04, 2010, 07:28 PM
For those of you with a Facebook account, the counterfeit Wala XL has surfaced...   ???

The link/photo has been removed. But here's another to explain why:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1315329525&v=wall&story_fbid=140266492673066 (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1315329525&v=wall&story_fbid=140266492673066)


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: tcope on August 04, 2010, 11:03 PM
"This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page."


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: KaoS on August 04, 2010, 11:28 PM
"This content is currently unavailable..."
I'm not surprised.  The content was pretty heated, and it seems people standing on the sidelines were getting hit with the some of the *** flying back and forwards.
The arguments centred around the person mentioned at the beginning of this very thread.  Sadly, it seems nothing has changed


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: kitenut75 on August 10, 2010, 09:32 PM
Here's a pic of the fake Wala XL... ::)

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/photo.php?pid=1578375&id=1315329525&ref=fbx_album (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/photo.php?pid=1578375&id=1315329525&ref=fbx_album)

Must admit the applique is quite a nice touch BUT sail material feels different, and a fake is still a fake.

 


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: mikenchico on August 10, 2010, 10:12 PM
The bridle is much longer too, completely different kite  :D



Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: kitenut75 on August 10, 2010, 10:31 PM
Saw a guy on the field flying a fake Wala, all the kite wanted to do was fly on its side, weird. And the bridle was unusually long as well!


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: try1897 on August 12, 2010, 02:45 AM
      I wish I could buy some of these counterfeit kites with counterfeit money............Well maybe no ... it's a thought though....Poor Old Tom


Title: new copy kite spotted... is that a cannard? from premier kite? OMG
Post by: n893 on November 06, 2010, 08:44 AM
that man is Tanxing Bo boss... and he said he developed that black kite for 3 years and just succed now...
i'm almost send a flying F*CK that time... but i think better keep down n spot more copy kite...

this is copy aerobe (Tanxing Bo made)
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4813/photo0037p.jpg)

this is copy cannard / premier rc (Tanxing Bo made)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5637/photo0042b.jpg)

please buy that 2 kite from responsible dealer only... pleaseeee....
 :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: ezme6 on November 06, 2010, 12:47 PM
Pics from Shenzen n893?


Title: Re: COPY CAT kite Manufacture
Post by: n893 on November 06, 2010, 09:14 PM
Yes yes... Thats from sz ikf 2010... ;)