GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: Svolazzo on March 03, 2010, 11:10 AM



Title: Vapor sail material
Post by: Svolazzo on March 03, 2010, 11:10 AM
I was playing with my Vapor today and when I put it away to go to the office, I focused my mind in the sail. I was just wondering if somebody knows what Prism used in the Vapor sail to build a so light kite, are the panel made with icarex or other? And what about the material of transparent panels and leading edges?
To save weight in each part of this beauty, Prism didn't use the regular mylar and dacron, so what were used? 

Paolo.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: zippy8 on March 03, 2010, 11:24 AM
I was just wondering if somebody knows what Prism used in the Vapor sail.

From BFK (http://www.bfk.com/kite/ki09005.htm):- The sail is constructed with film laminates, monofilm and .6 oz Icarex Polyester.

Mike.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: Allen Carter on March 03, 2010, 11:40 AM
(http://www.greenfeet.com/mmGF/Images/plstc-wrap-actual.gif)

Maybe the thicker industrial version...


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: DD on March 03, 2010, 11:43 AM
i thought they were made of the same material that they wrap cigarette packs in


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: tpatter on March 03, 2010, 11:56 AM
The Vapor sail material is truly amazing - the first time I put one together I couldn't believe how thin and light it is. 

I thought, hmmm.... a fast moving bumblebee could fly with through this stuff!


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: Allen Carter on March 03, 2010, 12:08 PM
I'm just kidding around. Whatever they used was some serious stuff. A LOT stronger than it looks.

Judging by the finished weight of the Vapor, I don't think the sail material was chosen for super light weight. It's an 80" 5.4 oz kite and there are plenty of sub-6oz kites using conventional poly fabric.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: indigo_wolf on March 03, 2010, 12:16 PM
They made a darkwing ?!?  ???

(http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/43958/1146005445046535339S500x500Q85.jpg)

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: tpatter on March 03, 2010, 12:33 PM
sweet - looks like it is sitting on kite hill in Seattle.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: RobB on March 03, 2010, 12:47 PM
That's one of the black rainbow Vapors that I lust after. I know there's at least two others that I've seen pictures of, I think one is in JC's photo collection.
I know Prism made a few white rainbow Vapors, too. Anyone know the scoop on these ? I have to have one of these, someday...

~Rob.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: Kantaxel on March 03, 2010, 01:01 PM
The Vapor sail material is truly amazing - the first time I put one together I couldn't believe how thin and light it is. 

I thought, hmmm.... a fast moving bumblebee could fly with through this stuff!


Amazing thing is the monofilm will stretch before it tears.....I've seen a few with stretch marks from upper and lower spreaders..............almost always these kites are damaged in ass/dissasembly mode and hardly ever in flight.....unless one were dumb enough to fly it in 10mph. :o

So..........the picture Sam...the picture?  pretty please?


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: indigo_wolf on March 03, 2010, 01:36 PM
So..........the picture Sam...the picture?  pretty please?


From the album of flyingfishguy, here:
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1146005445046535339LAaPRg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1146005445046535339LAaPRg)

Be aware that it is on Webshots and all the caveats that entails.

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: Kantaxel on March 03, 2010, 02:39 PM
Thanks Sam!

Yep I knew it was kite hill, and as it turns out I've picked up a couple of his kites including that PBSK, from the owner...(Vapor) if he still owns it............rumour had it that he had an all mylar Alien once too...........

Jim

PS:  Your lust Rob is nothing compared to mine ???


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: Svolazzo on March 03, 2010, 03:18 PM
Thanks to all for both fun and serious answers  :) indeed the feeling I have touching the transparent panels is the same of a food wrapping film. I put a lot of care folding the sail to avoid that a stand off ends to damage the monofilm and I have to agree with Tom also being aware to meet the flight of fast bugs  :)
So for what I read also the leading edges are made with Icarex as the sail.

Very nice dark Vapor, I wish I have one, and beautyfull collection of lot of all mylar and customs Prism classics, the second custom Alien seems to be purple and teal, if so it matches one of my two Alien, the other of mine is red and blue I think it's another one custom.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: zippy8 on March 03, 2010, 03:52 PM
Diving into old Prism websites, they list it as ".5 mil. monofilm" which is equivalent to 0.0127mm. IIRC a lot of sail problems were related to this film getting creases in it and then cracking.

Mike.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: Allen Carter on March 03, 2010, 04:57 PM
I flew a Vapor pretty much carelessly for a whole Pairs Comp season with no durability issues. No ugly rents in the monofilm after playing bumperkites. It's not a fragile as it looks, but I don't think it's as durable as Icarex. Any kite that flies that nice, I don't care what it's made out of.   :)


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: zippy8 on March 03, 2010, 05:19 PM
I'm on a real web archaeology tip at the moment for some reason.

On the Vapor, which uses a delicate monofilm luff panel....the 1/2 mil film is stretchier than the surrounding cloth. This builds a deeper profile forward and helps the kite fly slowly in no-wind conditions.
Mark Reed,
Mar 26 1999.

With it being a film rather than a laminate or even a ripstopped fabric, once it's damaged there's a lot more possibility of the damage getting worse and going from minor aesthetic issue to major structural problem. I've seen quite a few Vapors that tip the scale at much more than their manufacturer's claim due to the amount of Tedlarô holding the sail together.

Mike.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: chilese on March 03, 2010, 05:45 PM
I have 2 Vapors. They are both pretty. If the black one had been the standard model originally, the white one would be the one we all drool over. There just aren't as many black ones.

It was my understanding the black rainbow Vapors were a special run for GWTW many years ago.

http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/20022001Kites#5433812331440359458 (http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/20022001Kites#5433812331440359458)

And the Vapor is surprisingly sturdy. It is one of the most rigid assembled SULs ever. And it will pull hard in a 4 mph wind. Which is a good time to put it away, just to be on the safe side.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: JimB on March 03, 2010, 09:06 PM
"And the Vapor is surprisingly sturdy. It is one of the most rigid assembled SULs ever. And it will pull hard in a 4 mph wind. Which is a good time to put it away, just to be on the safe side."

Hallelujah.

The man has seen the light.

:)

I had one of those black rainbows for a while. I think Boomer ended up with it?

I have a white rainbow that wasn't one of the GWTW ones. It has a different label from the standard Prism label.

I'll let you have a go with it some time Rob. ;)

There is a small slice in the monofilm. :o :(

Tedlared.

I know RonG has said that if you rip the monofilm panels extensively it does not have all that much effect on the Vapors low wind capabilities.


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: Kantaxel on March 03, 2010, 10:41 PM
I would just like to throw in that we have two Vapours.............One first Gen (1996) and one 2nd (1997)

Neither have any issues with cracking mono despite the fact that they are stored in sleeves in hot sun (car top carriers) and garage winter temps (hovering around zero) rolled up and in their sleeves............................to date there have been no issues, and I just checked them both and there is absolutely no checking or cracking with the monofilm.............just wanted to set the record straight with those that would like to disparage the Prisms.  I'm sure that monfilm is probably more delicate than icarex, but some comments, IMO, are made truly out of jealousy and not really based on fact...........I would give up either the left or the right one to have a mint 3rd Gen Vapor............anyone:?........

Oh and a Blackbird Rainbow?   ........both ;)......yeah you heard me!

Jim


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: tpatter on March 03, 2010, 10:54 PM
garage winter temps (hovering around zero) rolled up and in their sleeves............................to date there have been no issues

Jim, I think that you are playing with fire my friend - you had better store those legendary kites in my heated basement for the winter!  :)

Don't worry - I wont fly them while they are in my care (not too too much, that is).

Cool to hear about the infamous blackbird - I had no idea it even existed or to the lengths you guys would go to acquire one!


-Tom


Title: Re: Vapor sail material
Post by: zippy8 on March 04, 2010, 04:53 AM
just wanted to set the record straight with those that would like to disparage the Prisms.  I'm sure that monfilm is probably more delicate than icarex, but some comments, IMO, are made truly out of jealousy and not really based on fact

Oh the temptation to abuse my mod. status :-X And facepalm. (http://www.elisanet.fi/mike.emery/Smilies/facepalm.gif)

Mike,
gleeless.