GWTW Forum

Kite Land Talk => Website Discussion => Topic started by: Steve on March 28, 2010, 07:42 PM



Title: What's your answer?
Post by: Steve on March 28, 2010, 07:42 PM
I received the following email from our new best friend Dan (kysonusa@yahoo.com):

 "Remove the slanderous postings on our product or your forum's reputation will be destroyed in a week.  We would like to bring your attention to the links below:
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270549821220&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270549821220&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT)
 
http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforum.htm (http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforum.htm)
 
http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforums.htm (http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforums.htm)
 
More listings on eBay for all kite products with links to educate buyers about your forum will be added soon.
 
Remove posting below:
 
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2636.0 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2636.0)"

I have always maintained this forum for the community so I thought I'd let you guys decide how to handle this.

Whatcha all think?


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: st3307 on March 28, 2010, 08:21 PM
If it  was  I  I would write back and tell him to  go have sexaul inter course  with him self havea nice  day and thank you


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: fidelio on March 28, 2010, 08:28 PM
i don't know if you sell anything on ebay or not but personally, i wouldn't bow to his bully tactics.

the reason; if this a battle of reputation, the closer one gets to the truth, the worse his position. he only gains if the truth is concealed.

should this be of concern to revolution, absolutely.

but as this relates to your forums; those with genuine interest in either the sport, the kite, or the community come to this place because, generally speaking, the information and discussion dispensed here is of benefit to everyone.

this person has built a business on disreputable tactics, and is now reaping the rewards for doing so, lashing out against those who stand in the light of legitimacy and respectability.

your reputation and business is already cemented with us and those businesses who sponsor these forums.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: chilese on March 28, 2010, 08:34 PM
He reads as if he has a persecution complex.

Just keep telling the truth.

Can he actually do anything to hurt GWTW?

It's not like he sends people to our Forum and they end up buying from the store.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: UPNET on March 28, 2010, 08:35 PM
Ignore him.... 8)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: JimB on March 28, 2010, 09:10 PM
Time to have a word with ebay.

Who knows.

You might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 ;)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KenMcNeill on March 28, 2010, 09:16 PM
Just curious, has this guy used the US mail to ship misrepresented product?


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: MtnFlyer on March 28, 2010, 09:16 PM
Interesting. He's obviously trying scare tactics with little effect. Reading what he has written on the referenced pages, even the novice web user would notice that all hot links go nowhere but back to those pages.

And the Blast and 1.5 he's offering for $699 in his referenced listing are significantly damaged. Consider that against the fact that brand new those same kites could be purchased for $490, far less than the listing price.

I wonder how eBay's security/consumer protection group would react to learning of the message and threats you received. Add to that the use of USPS perhaps, or at the very least interstate commerce, and the postal inspectors and other regulators might be very interested in his operation.

What a jerk.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Dolphinboy on March 29, 2010, 01:01 AM
Some guy uses misleading wording in his adds then gets pissed when he's called on it....Wow I'm worried about the GWTW forums reputation :D


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: stapp59 on March 29, 2010, 01:42 AM
Certainly bring this to the attention of ebay, usps, and whomever else has jurisdiction.  As much scrutiny as possible will put this crap in its place. The truth is on your side as already stated.  The guy certainly has an axe to grind.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: 711jrp on March 29, 2010, 01:48 AM
I'm with Bobby

Have you seen this.

http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforums.htm (http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforums.htm)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: WinterDaze on March 29, 2010, 02:01 AM
Steve, thanks for the heads up on this.


I have had many dealings with manufacturers and retails of kite and related product. And to be honest I feel that all of them, with their respective skill sets could be possibly making far more money in almost any other industry.

They, I suspect, do it because they love the idea of being involved with kites, and the joy that kites bring to those who take time to fly them. Much generosity has been extended to me and my partner through the extended kite flying fraternity, and this is a rare thing theses day, what with profits and KPI's in may ways taking over from laughter and good ol' clean fun.

As most of you know I've only been 'seriously' flying for 3 years, but I got back into it because I can only remember kites ever being associated with a great time with family and friends, both old and new.

Now you may ask whats the point of this little monologue, as many of you feel the same I'm sure.


Well it's quite a simple point....

Hey Dan, cos I know you're reading this, I can always smell your type when they're in the area. Stick to your inks and massage tables and drills and &%#*, don't go &%#*ing with the kite industry, it means a little more to folk than the few measly dollars you, even as a 'respected' trader may have made.

"Destroyed" is such a strong word, and it goes both ways. Some of the folk here might start to take it a little personal, if you get my meaning. And these folk are passionate.

Hey and no need to thank me, I'm only here to help

Winter (were the storms come from)

let me know if I'm outa line.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Andy S on March 29, 2010, 02:19 AM
If I had a kite forum, I'd start taking daily backups, leave the posts where they are, and ignore him.  :-\


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: obijuankenobe on March 29, 2010, 03:14 AM
My first question:  Are GWTW, Kitelife, and Powerkiteforums really under federal investigation?  Have any formal charges been filed against any of these entities?

If not, he may actually be guilty of something for claiming otherwise. 

I think as most here do:  The truth is on your side.  Discussion of the legitimacy of his product is in no way shape or form a problem if indeed he is engaged in anything but honest kite sales.  And even if he is a 100% honest and innocent kite dealer, these claims are questionable at best, and likely pure hot air. 

Here is a clear example of situation where I can completely understand, support, and cheer for Revolution and any action they might choose to take against this clown.

Certainly no one behind the scenes of GWTW or these other public forums is in legal jeapardy because of what members have speculated about or posted regarding his wares.  If anything, he'll need to pursue each instance individually.  I wish him luck. 

And quite frankly, I'd guess virtually no one comes to visit GWTW or forms their first impressions of this community based on a second order link posted on eBay. 

 ::)
obi



Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: thief on March 29, 2010, 04:47 AM
thank him for visiting the forum....he is after all going to be driving a bit more traffic to you and the other forums....
i know that i would be curious in seeing his allegations against those places and then would google them and find them for myself...and i would discover REAL KITES!

just get your friendly attorney involved and let them be a bulldog to find out the truth.....

then sue for slander.

maybe the hand of KTAI should be involved now? since there are more than one kite retailed involved?


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: King-J on March 29, 2010, 05:42 AM
thank him for visiting the forum....he is after all going to be driving a bit more traffic to you and the other forums....
i know that i would be curious in seeing his allegations against those places and then would google them and find them for myself...and i would discover REAL KITES!

just get your friendly attorney involved and let them be a bulldog to find out the truth.....

then sue for slander.

maybe the hand of KTAI should be involved now? since there are more than one kite retailed involved?

I agree 100% with this, it will definitely bring more hits to the site, and possibly some added business to you from people wanting to buy from a reputable vendor.

You probably could get the others listed to join in the law suit, if he is posting allegations of federal investigations and you have not been served, he has just hung him self if you pursue the matter legally


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: jeepersjoey on March 29, 2010, 06:22 AM
This started with me buying a "REV" from him, receiving it on a Friday all excited...and then quickly realizing that it was not.  I asked the advice of the forum (of which I had been a member only 2-3 weeks) for advice.

I got some GREAT advice and most said to ATTACK with a vengence.

I decided to take the low road and simply ask for my money back with no threats or intimidation.

He refunded but held my return postage hostage unless I gave postive feedback.  I figured if I got my return postage back I would be out NO money so said "I will not be leaving positive, negative or neutral feedback for you and I expect you to do the same.  I do not want the return postage paid".

With all that said.  Thanks to all, again for the help.  This is a good group.



Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: jeepersjoey on March 29, 2010, 06:28 AM
With that said...I can give a little more fuel...

1.  He shipped to me using UPS or FEDEX...not the USPS.

2.  He sold me lines and handles after the auction ended for $49.  However, it was listed in the auction that they were offered if the buyer requests.

3. I paid on paypal.  He added the lines and handles to the cost as a separate line item.

His communication skills are typical for an ebay seller.  Short and never really answer all the questions that I posed.

No advice on how to deal with him now that I have invited the Vampire into your home (Lost Boys movie reference).


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: DGomberg on March 29, 2010, 07:02 AM
Politely point him to the Forum Rules.

"Disclaimer: Statements made by members of this site are their own opinions and should not be taken in any other context."

Then tell him he is welcome to join and post his own comments. That should be fun.....

dg


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: obijuankenobe on March 29, 2010, 07:59 AM
Been thinking a bit and rereading this thread and the other.

Could he be resting all of his arguments on the basis that 'Revolution' is a trademark name BUT 'Rev' is not?!  In his replies to Jeepers, he calls it a Rev Blast, rather than a Revolution Blast.  It's obviously an attempt to confuse or link his product to Revolution, but whether this is legal infringement is not immediately clear to me.

I definitely think GWTW is in the clear.  It's still not obvious to me if he avoids all problems by calling his kites 'Rev' versus Revolution.  If he uses the logo, that's another thing entirely I'd guess.

obi


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Dolphinboy on March 29, 2010, 08:57 AM
Been thinking a bit and rereading this thread and the other.

Could he be resting all of his arguments on the basis that 'Revolution' is a trademark name BUT 'Rev' is not?!  In his replies to Jeepers, he calls it a Rev Blast, rather than a Revolution Blast.  It's obviously an attempt to confuse or link his product to Revolution, but whether this is legal infringement is not immediately clear to me.

I definitely think GWTW is in the clear.  It's still not obvious to me if he avoids all problems by calling his kites 'Rev' versus Revolution.  If he uses the logo, that's another thing entirely I'd guess.

obi

That's exactly what he did. His intent is to make buyer believe they are purchasing Revolution products without actually using the whole name. "Rev, Blast etc.", that's just as dishonest and misleading. I read his kite eBay listings and they do sound like he is selling Revolution Kites. He knows what he is doing.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: rxburner on March 29, 2010, 10:20 AM
The Truth Will Set You Free.

Strange guy.... does JB know he is using his name in that post?

He sounds a little dangerous to me, I think the Department of Homeland Security should be tipped off about him. That sounded like a terrorist threat to me.
Rx


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: mikenchico on March 29, 2010, 12:16 PM
...tell him he is welcome to join and post his own comments. That should be fun.....

dg


Well Steve has been trying to keep things civil here, I can't imagine what would be said if he dared show here. Pretty sure it wouldn't fall within 'The Forums' code of conduct  :D

*Steve*, nothing I've said here is productive to the intent of 'The Forum' If the threads go away should you feel they are not holding to the intent here I have no problem with the deletion of anything I've posted - your call - other then Jeepers original question as to if what he purchased was truely a new 'Rev' it's all "Off Topic"

I know you're not a person to give in to Threats and Extortion and IMO you have no liabilty here nor does anybody who has participated in the threads. Even my statement that I knew people who would be interested in his info is above board, one of my friends is buddy's with an IRS enforcement officer in Texas, that's who finally got Rhonda off the hook for her ex's failure to pay with a call to our local office, he even carries a gun   ;)



Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: ezme6 on March 29, 2010, 01:09 PM
[quote  I think the Department of Homeland Security should be tipped off about him. That sounded like a terrorist threat to me.
Rx
[/quote]

 :D


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 29, 2010, 02:14 PM
Kitelife, nor myself are under federal investigation... It's pure libel.

He tried this with powerkiteforum first, I just got added to the list for being another outspoken advocate.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=11192 (http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=11192)

My first interaction with them was roughly two years ago, regarding the same subject... He threatened legal action then, never did sh*t, because he can't do sh*t... Public opinion is our given right, god bless the free world.

I've also compared notes with Bob Childs (owner of powerkiteforum) and he's confirmed all of my thoughts on this matter.

We'll be leaving related discussions on Rev and Kitelife online... IMHO, it's our responsibility to ensure that truth is widely available... There's been no slander here, simply a cataloging of facts and opinions, which we're entitled to.

You won't find any content on the web sites I manage regarding breach of copyright unless he's using established product names like "Blast", "SLE" or running off copies of established graphics such as those used on the SLE or Blast.

I hope GWTW stands strong and does the same. :)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Beachbum on March 29, 2010, 03:10 PM
My answer (http://www.phonelosers.com/).

It starts with this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_fax).

Let's get juvenile with it!


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: xuzme720 on March 29, 2010, 03:16 PM
I guess what he is doing by just using the words he does IS legal, if not necessarily honest. Basically using misleading info to promote a sale. What he IS doing that is NOT legal is having the following:

WWW.POWERKITEFORUM.COM, WWW.KITELIFE.COM (http://WWW.KITELIFE.COM), WWW.GWTWFORUM.COM (http://WWW.GWTWFORUM.COM)  and their owners Bob Childs and John Barresi are under federal investigation !

Their sites have been blocked !

Due to the competitive nature of the power kite industry, many brands are resorting to illegal and dishonest marketing techniques.

One of these is to support or setup forums throughout the internet supposedly to discuss issues regarding the sport.

Instead of discussing honest issues, these forums are used to market their own brand of products or brands from their advertisers.

Competing brands which do not advertise on or sponsor these forums receives unfavorable postings.

Forums currently under investigation are www.powerkiteforum.com (http://www.powerkiteforum.com),  www.gwtwforum.com (http://www.gwtwforum.com), www.kiteskating.com (http://www.kiteskating.com), www.kitelife.com (http://www.kitelife.com), and www.doomwheels.com (http://www.doomwheels.com), owned and operated by Bob Childs and John Barresi.

Any brand or company advertising on or have links contained within these sites will be investigated and prosecuted under the law. which is pure and unadulterated BS! This is clearly libel! I say get the attorney's involved. Maybe we can teach him a lesson where it will really leave a lasting impression, his wallet!



Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: xuzme720 on March 29, 2010, 03:18 PM
My answer ([url]http://www.phonelosers.com/[/url]).

It starts with this ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_fax[/url]).

Let's get juvenile with it!
LOL I like it!


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 29, 2010, 03:57 PM
The item with links to libel has been removed for the moment...

http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOLUTION-REV-BLAST-SLE-1-5-Quad-Line-Kite_W0QQitemZ270549821220QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efe06a724 (http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOLUTION-REV-BLAST-SLE-1-5-Quad-Line-Kite_W0QQitemZ270549821220QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efe06a724)

I've spoken with eBay length today, the ad was removed for listing violations, as well as unauthorized use of "Kitelife" in his ad (see VeRO rules (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html) and my VeRO page (http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/kitelife-com)).

With repeated violations, this seller's account will eventually be suspended or removed.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: xuzme720 on March 29, 2010, 03:58 PM
The item with links to libel has been removed for the moment...

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOLUTION-REV-BLAST-SLE-1-5-Quad-Line-Kite_W0QQitemZ270549821220QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efe06a724[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOLUTION-REV-BLAST-SLE-1-5-Quad-Line-Kite_W0QQitemZ270549821220QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3efe06a724[/url])

I've spoken with eBay length today, the ad was removed for listing violations, as well as unauthorized use of "Kitelife" in his ad (see VeRO rules (http://"[url]http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html[/url]") and my VeRO page (http://"[url]http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/kitelife-com[/url]")).

With repeated violations, this seller's account will eventually be suspended or removed.
Which listing was that? the broken/damaged Revs?


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 29, 2010, 04:12 PM
Yes, for the "damaged" Revs which I would suspect he doesn't even have to sell.

Multiple offers have been made over the past 2 weeks, the listing said "highest bid in the next 24 hours wins", yet every inquiry has prompted replies to the effect of "these kites don't fly, read the reviews" and the bids are allowed to expire or are declined.

My guess is again, that he doesn't even have these two kites and has a false ad purely for the purpose of libel.

Again, just a suspicion, I don't have confirmation of this but all signs certainly indicate it.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 29, 2010, 04:16 PM
Sorry, just realized my two VeRO links were malformed (thanks for the heads up fidelio), post edited to fix. ;)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: xuzme720 on March 29, 2010, 04:20 PM
Yes, for the "damaged" Revs which I would suspect he doesn't even have to sell.

Multiple offers have been made over the past 2 weeks, the listing said "highest bid in the next 24 hours wins", yet every inquiry has prompted replies to the effect of "these kites don't fly, read the reviews" and the bids are allowed to expire or are declined.

My guess is again, that he doesn't even have these two kites and has a false ad purely for the purpose of libel.

Again, just a suspicion, I don't have confirmation of this but all signs certainly indicate it.
I would have to agree. I really have to wonder why this guy, besides trying to legitimize himself through libel, would even want to call attention to a knowledgeable base of people, who can only hurt his business by having a truly informed customer after they visit the forums. Seems that it would be smarter to leave well enough alone, but maybe that is the point.



Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Steve on March 29, 2010, 04:27 PM
I've exchanged several emails asking that the mention of the GWTW Forum be removed form the website that he created.  I realize that this guy is in no way a threat to the forum.  Last week i did log a complaint about his (now removed) eBay listing.

Beyond that I am done with this guy.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 29, 2010, 04:49 PM
*applause*


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: xuzme720 on March 29, 2010, 05:04 PM
Beyond that I am done with this guy.
This reminds me of "My cousin Vinny" and Joe Pesci... 8)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Andy S on March 30, 2010, 06:09 AM
I realize that this guy is in no way a threat to the forum. 

Unless he decides to start digging for exploits or hacking user accounts.

Make sure the forum DB at least is being backed up.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Steve on March 30, 2010, 07:24 AM
I back up at least weekly.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 30, 2010, 07:35 AM
We have both daily and weekly backups, automatically done at the data center.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 31, 2010, 11:02 AM
Well, I did my homework yesterday and remembered (was reminded) that web hosting services have in their terms of service statements about use of such space for slander and personal information so I contacted their host's legal department and filled out the appropriate forms...

http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforum.htm (http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforum.htm)
http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforums.htm (http://www.eznet.biz/powerkiteforums.htm)

404 NOT FOUND

Suck on that ya &%#*ers.  :D


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: thief on March 31, 2010, 12:12 PM
+1 to jb


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Steve on March 31, 2010, 12:41 PM
Well played sir.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: Allen Carter on March 31, 2010, 01:00 PM
Oooh...


Now you made him mad.

The Wrath of Dan will be upon you.

Be afraid...

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 31, 2010, 01:39 PM
Terrified, not. I've got time, my own server in a major data center and a wealth of digital resources at my disposal.

Dan, I know you'll be reading this... Really man, it don't have to be like this... All you need to do is shift your approach a tad, sell kites for which there is no copyright or trademark debate, an original line of products... Something you can stand in the light with and be proud of, and you'd feel the difference in your core.

Surely the fact that major firms like eBay and BlueHost have applied clear legal policies against your behavior says something?

I wish everyone the best in their own ventures, but when the ethical line is crossed... Gloves are off, pure and simple.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: mikenchico on March 31, 2010, 02:33 PM
(http://www.sysmatrix.net/~mikenchico/thumbsup2.gif)(http://www.sysmatrix.net/~mikenchico/thumbsup2.gif)(http://www.sysmatrix.net/~mikenchico/thumbsup2.gif)

EVIL LAUGH 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfdCq4dgRHo&feature=channel#normal)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: kiteslinger on March 31, 2010, 03:22 PM
hummmmm....... &%#*er or what

 check out his other items that are the same as

http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Quad-4-Line-Kite-Cold-Fuzion-II_W0QQitemZ250607558352QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a595fded0 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Quad-4-Line-Kite-Cold-Fuzion-II_W0QQitemZ250607558352QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a595fded0)


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: st3307 on March 31, 2010, 03:43 PM
 buy Looking  at the  Ad   I say  or  what    he  is  not  claiming  it  is  some thing  other  then  what it  truly  is   and  he  probly  paid  what  he  has stated   for  it   is  the  kite  a   Knock-off  yes  it  is.  but   he  is not trying to pass  it  off  as  some thing it  is not   but that  my  2cnets  worth   


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: KiteLife on March 31, 2010, 03:43 PM
This is the only remaining link I could find relevant to the pages I took exception to...

http://www.kysonusa.eznet.biz/powerkiteforum.htm (http://www.kysonusa.eznet.biz/powerkiteforum.htm)

Not exactly true, but not exactly slanderous either.


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: RS67Man on March 31, 2010, 03:54 PM
It is gone now also. This is getting good, I need to pop some popcorn to watch the show.............

Ya messed with the wrong community Dan!


Title: Re: What's your answer?
Post by: xuzme720 on March 31, 2010, 07:41 PM
hummmmm....... &%#*er or what

 check out his other items that are the same as

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Quad-4-Line-Kite-Cold-Fuzion-II_W0QQitemZ250607558352QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a595fded0[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Quad-4-Line-Kite-Cold-Fuzion-II_W0QQitemZ250607558352QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a595fded0[/url])
That might be the same type of kite but it is not the same seller that has been stirring the pot...