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Kite Land Talk => Website Discussion => Topic started by: obijuankenobe on March 30, 2010, 04:04 AM



Title: Chicago Police
Post by: obijuankenobe on March 30, 2010, 04:04 AM
Yeah, plainclothes police in Chicago beat my buddy Matt Clark to a pulp a month ago. 

http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-police-beating-lawsuit-march23,0,2275698.story (http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-police-beating-lawsuit-march23,0,2275698.story)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/matthew-clark-greg-maland_n_510872.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/matthew-clark-greg-maland_n_510872.html)

I stumbled on this via comments on another online story.  I am livid.   :'(

I am not sure who is worse, the street thugs in plainclothes, or the f%#&s in uniform that told Matt and his buddy to go home and forget about it. 

Some police officers should never have been given a badge in the first place.  What does this (and the many many other examples) say about the state of America if a guy getting a late night taco can get jumped by three cops, and then have other cops ignore the crime?  It sure says to me that my former hometown of Chicago has only gotten much worse since I left.  I used to think drawing guns on traffic stops was over the top.  This is just overt corruption and lawlessness from those paid to uphold the law.   

When you commit crimes while having a badge, you should be punished much more severely.  My friend Matt is the nicest dude you'll ever meet.  I hope the outcome of this suit funds the rest of his life.

obi


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: RobB on March 30, 2010, 04:47 AM
Ever since 9-11, anyone with a badge feels they can do whatever they want, unchecked.  :-[


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: RonG on March 30, 2010, 05:39 AM
In before the inevitable pro-law enforcement response, catastrophic thread breakdown, and subsequent lock.

Brutal stuff.  I hope your friend gets some kind restitution for what was done to him.  Lots of guys with serious testosterone poisoning going into "law enforcement" these days.  Seems like every juiced up, obnoxious meathead I run into in my gym is planning to become a cop or state trooper, so incidents like this don't really surprise me.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: ezme6 on March 30, 2010, 06:36 AM
yea a bunch of losers in law enforcement these days. But I am sure glad we got them, crime is 100 times worse than when i was a kid. But then again in the 50's and 60's it was the norm for cops to beat the crap out of everyone.
Maybe that was why there was not much crime... :D


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: browndude3649 on March 30, 2010, 07:02 AM
I read Sonny Bargers auto-bio (Hells Angels past president)  when white folk used to live in oakland, the cops would bring new officers or just the officers who needed exercise to a bar where they knew they'd find worthy sparring partners. Pick a fight in uniform with rules: no weapons, if officer won you went to jail, if you won you got to go home that night knowing you kicked a cops ass fair-in square (i guess)
Sorry for your friend. Maybe some Krav Maga classes, or small circle jujitsu? In NYC you should be able to find those classes easy peezy
Hope he gets every penny hes got coming to him


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: RonG on March 30, 2010, 07:49 AM
Maybe some Krav Maga classes, or small circle jujitsu? In NYC you should be able to find those classes easy peezy

Not sure how much that would help him against off-duty cops, though.  Can you imagine what would have happened to those guys if they had mounted any kind of serious resistance?  I'm guessing that when the uniforms showed up, the 2 victims would have ended up in jail, the hospital, or worse.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: adx1592 on March 30, 2010, 07:58 AM
THIS HAPPENED NEAR CHICAGO?!
So strange.... the police here are usually really nice.
Thats bad about your friend, Obi, I hope this gets sorted out soon.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: Jynx on March 30, 2010, 09:41 AM
Ever since 9-11, anyone with a badge feels they can do whatever they want, unchecked.  :-[
As a retired police officer (service 25+ years) I take offense to your statement. There are (some) bad cops, plumbers, politicians, kite fliers, etc., etc.... but please don't lump ALL cops into one bad pit! It's the few bad eggs that stand out and make it near impossible for the good ones (the majority) to do their job well and continue to believe they are making a possitive impact.

Glad I'm retired, especially after the last years I served, as too many people have a similar, to your, attitude.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: Gamelord on March 30, 2010, 01:22 PM
Jinx....I stand by you 99% of what you said.  I have quite a few friends that are police officers and all of them are very honorable at what they do and I respect them in the highest.  The things that they are required to go through on a day-by-day basis is just amazing and I wonder why anyone would ever want to do that...but I am sure proud and thankful that they do.  It is too bad that there are a small handful of losers that create such a bad image of the majority of hard working and honest officers who really want to serve and protect us and our families.

But that 1% that I don't agree on is politicians....they are all bad....those and lawyers!  :):):)

It is a shame for what happened to your friend Obi.  I hope things get made right soon.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: mikenchico on March 30, 2010, 01:30 PM

When you commit crimes while having a badge, you should be punished much more severely. 
obi

I'll agree with that 1000%, they have gotten laws passed that increase the punishment to anybody committing an offense on them, if they are taking your money and committing crimes against you that is already 3 or more crimes.

Thanks Obi, someday maybe enough people will see or experience what you're pointing out and say enough is enough.



Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: Kantaxel on March 30, 2010, 04:55 PM
Ever since 9-11, anyone with a badge feels they can do whatever they want, unchecked.  :-[
As a retired police officer (service 25+ years) I take offense to your statement. There are (some) bad cops, plumbers, politicians, kite fliers, etc., etc.... but please don't lump ALL cops into one bad pit! It's the few bad eggs that stand out and make it near impossible for the good ones (the majority) to do their job well and continue to believe they are making a possitive impact.

Glad I'm retired, especially after the last years I served, as too many people have a similar, to your, attitude.

Attitudes........we all got 'em.  No matter what the profession, be it doctor, lawyer, military person.............whatever, some people are not cut out for it........Some people shouldn't even be allowed to be parents, cuz after all it's the kids who suffer.  We humans often fail, hence the phrase, "I'm only human" ;)


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: kiteman on March 30, 2010, 05:35 PM
Here in lies the fact that human beings are not the most intelligent living things on the planet earth. Where the idea came from that they were is beyond me. Watch planet earth or life on Discovery, and put that with things I see and hear people do, there are other living things on this planet that are smarter than some humans!!!


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: RobB on March 30, 2010, 06:13 PM
Jynx, I am sorry to have offended you. I shouldn't make an 'all' statement like that, covering the whole country. I can just speak from what is around me, and it's out of control. Random stop & searches on the street, and in motor vehicles. No probable cause required. Road blocks any time of the day, not just for DWI anymore. Seems like almost weekly there's another police brutality case on the news. Unarmed people going down in a hail of police bullets. I don't know if that goes past the NYC area, but that's what it's like here, sad to say.
~Rob.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: Jeepster on March 30, 2010, 06:45 PM
Jynx,

Thanks for speaking up.  You voiced my feelings exactly.

Cheers,
Tom


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: xuzme720 on March 30, 2010, 07:37 PM
The only problems I have with people relates to their direct actions, not their race, profession, color, creed, etc.
Anything else is generalizing and amounts to "reading a book by it's cover".

Obi, very sorry to hear about your friend. I hope he truly was doing nothing to provoke the cops. Some people just rub others the wrong way, my brother is one of those. He had his share of scraps but I tend to think he brought a lot of it on himself as he has no "filter". Most people take that seriously when if you know him, it's always in jest.

Anyway, hope it works out for him.

I could go on and on but will put the soapbox away without any damage and let the next person have a go...


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: Dolphinboy on March 30, 2010, 10:20 PM
100%, that's the percentage of officers in this incident that are "bad". It doesn't matter if the victims provoked the officers. No one deserves to be beaten and left without medical attention especially by police officers. It doesn't matter if the police took part in the beating, stood by or looked the other way they are all guilty. I tend to think that the number of bad apples is a bit more than some would like to think but I hope it's not as many as I fear it is.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: obijuankenobe on March 31, 2010, 02:29 AM
I think this is a worthy discussion, and thus far VERY good by GWTW standard.  Good on you all.

To address the question of provocation, I can offer some addition (albeit one sided) commentary.  Matt told me yesterday that there is a second video which shows the whole incident from beginning to end.  It's too graphic for release to the press, and will likely only be seen by the jury (should there be one). 

Matt says that in that video, you can clearly see him walk backward slowly while be threatened.  He then extends his hand (where he says he tried to offer to just say he was sorry, although he didn't know what he was apologizing for), when one of the two men just cold cocks him, dropping him to the floor.  That same guy then climbed on top and started wailing.  All on video.  Worse is that when his friend put his hands on the shoulders of the attacker, the second man tossed him head over heels into the pavement, where he promptly lost consciousness.  Worst of all, when the uniformed police officers arrived, they took over, kneeing his unconscious friend repeatedly to wake him.  They then lifted them over to the wall near a dumpster, and told them specifically they would do nothing to the two men, and that Matt and his friend should just forget about the incident.  Then all of the cops and alleged cops left. 

I say 'alleged' cops because the plainclothes officers were never identified definitively as cops.  Matt heard their female companion tell the friend to, *Stop fighting back, they are cops.  They are going to beat you worse if you don't.* This statement, along with the fact that they got off scott free without even any sort of attempt at find out who was at fault pretty much guarantees they were police officers.  However, the City of Chicago is still leaving that open for debate, and certainly has not offered the names of neither the responding uniforms nor the alleged plainclothes officers.

It's a crazy situation, where Matt feels scared and unsafe in his own home.  He also of course feels bad for having to in effect accuse police officers of crimes.  I think that is sort of akin to giving up a core belief (like police are the good guys, for example). 


I do think this kind of behavior has been around a long time.  Maybe even after 9/11 it's gotten worse, but that's less clear to me.  What is true is that there are more undertrained personnel in positions of great authority, like the TSA in airports, and there you get these 'attitude problems' which are unnecessary and inappropriate. 

This is certainly a case of police feeling more like prison guards than fellow citizens with an important job in the community.  Chicago Police are particularly well known for their 'brotherhood', so the whole situation doesn't surprise me once you get past the unprovoked nature of the incident.  It's very likely that the two attackers lied about what happened to get the uniforms on their side upon arrival.  I find it hard to believe they said, "We jumped these guys, can you cover for us?"

I am from a small town, where the TWO local police officers were family friends and were there to look out for you.  When you got stopped by county police, you got stopped because they needed to tell you to drive safe, not to see how many different crimes they could convict you of now that they had you pulled over.  We need more police officers who are people first, protecting their fellow citizens' rights and guaranteeing their safety rather than thinking more akin to prison guards who dislike their job.

Thanks for not getting the thread closed YET.  :)

obi


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: RonG on March 31, 2010, 04:37 AM
Like I said, testosterone poisoning and perceived lack of accountability for their actions.

I've seen too many guys that just wanted to wail on someone choose "law enforcement" as a career.  Not saying all cops are like that, but enough to make sh!t like this happen pretty often.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: kitelover on March 31, 2010, 06:48 AM
Quote
It's too graphic for release to the press, and will likely only be seen by the jury (should there be one). 

I would think public awareness and outrage would be a good thing. A trial and possible settlement tends to get swept under the table. People like to think the Police are good and there to serve (I hope most of them are) and anyone they stop must have done something wrong. After seeing the recent BART shooting video, I had to question why a suspect laying on the ground, surrounded by Police Officers, needed to be Tazered at all.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: mikenchico on March 31, 2010, 06:56 AM
It is that "Brotherhood" mentality, I have relatives in law enforcement and I do believe they do a good & usually fair job but the mentality of "Us" against "Them" has gotten too deeply ingrained. In many cases the "Them" has become anybody who isn't one of "Us". In reality we are one of the "Us", we are their "Employers" but that's been forgotten with the close brotherhood mentality and lack of accountability. Since the problem has been ignored for so long the brotherhood has been extended to the Judges and in many cases the Lawyers, and WELL beyond. I could tell you horror stories that would make you shake in your boots, this isn't the place.



Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: johnfarl on March 31, 2010, 09:05 PM
9-11 has nothing to do with this.  Chicago has always been a place where police were typically a breed apart.  I remember when I moved there in 66 you kept a $20 bill paper clipped to your drivers liscense.  But then again if you were a cop your life was on the line all the time. Most of the city was dangerous.  Seems not much has changed.

Where I am from now the cops and firemen are the good guys.  I respect them and would be friends with just about any of them.  It is a hard job.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: mikenchico on April 01, 2010, 08:44 PM
...  But then again if you were a cop your life was on the line all the time. Most of the city was dangerous. 

Chicago may be worse then many places, but we hear all the time how the Police etc. deserve such high pay from the taxpayers since their job is so dangerous. In reality it is far safer statistically then many other jobs rated by injury's or death's per man hour worked. My job is 3 times more dangerous then theirs. Fishermen, the most dangerous profession, are like 10 times more likely to be injured or killed.

Although I love my job and I would not want theirs so I'll give them that.





Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: RobB on April 02, 2010, 02:37 AM
9-11 has nothing to do with this.  Chicago has always been a place where police were typically a breed apart.  I remember when I moved there in 66 you kept a $20 bill paper clipped to your drivers liscense.  But then again if you were a cop your life was on the line all the time. Most of the city was dangerous.  Seems not much has changed.

Where I am from now the cops and firemen are the good guys.  I respect them and would be friends with just about any of them.  It is a hard job.
9-11 is when we gave up our rights to our personal rights that used to be respected. To a greater extent, at least. You didn't have to worry about being randomly stopped, searched, and frisked. Now you can expect it in the train stations, the airport, going to any public event. It used to be that when I would get pulled over in my car, I would know why before I pulled over. Usually speeding... But now, I've been pulled over and given no reason, and let go, and still not knowing why I was pulled over in the first place.
The 'marshall law' powers that were given to the autorities on 9-11 will never be given back, I'm afraid, it's been almost 10 years, and there's no sign of them backing down here. And the attitude that goes with it... they could at least violate our rights with a smile...


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: DWayne on April 03, 2010, 03:31 PM
If there are good cops out there, they're few and far between.
Here's another example of the fine men and women in blue serving their community.  :(
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_drug_charges_dropped (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_drug_charges_dropped)

Denny


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 26, 2013, 07:46 AM
The end of the tale....

Chicago to pay $185,000 to settle case involving beating allegedly administered by off-duty police officers and covered up by on-duty colleagues (http://voices.suntimes.com/early-and-often/chicago-to-pay-185000-to-settle-case-involving-beating-allegedly-administered-by-off-duty-police-officers-and-covered-up-by-on-duty-colleagues/)

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: JimB on July 26, 2013, 11:34 AM
Doesn't seem to be quite enough.


Title: Re: Chicago Police
Post by: Kantaxel on July 26, 2013, 04:44 PM
Doesn't seem to be quite enough.
Is it ever?
Think about Halliburton only getting a 200,000 dollar fine from the feds for the gulf spill caused by their negligence :-\