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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: iwannafly on April 12, 2010, 06:40 AM



Title: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 12, 2010, 06:40 AM
I broke my MANTIS. :'( and would like to get it flying again.

Does anyone know where I can get Sky Shark rods and ferrules in the Toronto area?



Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: chilese on April 12, 2010, 11:38 AM
If you can't find a local store.....

Skyshark rods:

http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=18 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=18)

Ferrules:

http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=23 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=23)

Buy spares.  :)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 12, 2010, 02:57 PM
Nothing against the host store but shipping to Canada is crazy. I emailed Ken at BMK and he suggested I look local because the cost to my door would be around 30 bucks for the one rod! Ken did suggest someone in Québec who I have emailed.

Shipping was more than the cost of the part. I can't justify that. (at least not to the wife, she just does not understand)



Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: thief on April 12, 2010, 03:26 PM
pm sent


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: chilese on April 12, 2010, 06:07 PM
When buying replacement spars, I always buy 6 of each item. That way the shipping cost is divided over all the sticks.

Just a thought.

After a while, you have a good stash of spars for future breaks.  :)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 12, 2010, 06:28 PM
When buying replacement spars, I always buy 6 of each item. That way the shipping cost is divided over all the sticks.

Just a thought.

After a while, you have a good stash of spars for future breaks.  :)

OK John, you're scaring me. I only started flying late last summer. I only have 2 stunt kites and an Aerobe. The last thing I want to do is break stuff. Breaking a knock… ok. I did get an extra pair with the MANTIS and I did buy another set from Steve for my Quantum, but 6 of  each ???. That’s just crazy talk. Next thing you know, you will be telling me to buy lighter rods to turn my BMK into a UL! ;) :D


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: xuzme720 on April 12, 2010, 06:35 PM
That’s just crazy talk. Next thing you know, you will be telling me to buy lighter rods to turn my BMK into a UL! ;) :D
You haven't?!? well, no wonder!! ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: Steve Hall on April 12, 2010, 07:16 PM
A one pound package can ship as cheaply as $5.00 ... of course it is first class mail and length / size restrictions apply but it would work on a small handful of rods ... just an option in case you can't buy locally.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: tempest on April 13, 2010, 04:58 AM
There is also the Great Canadian Kite Co. and there is Tail Spin Kites ,82 Huron Rd, Mitchell, ON (not sure if they will have Skyshark Rods). Other than that, about a 3 hour trip across the border to Kites and Fun Things,1049 South Mail St, Plymouth, MI ,48170.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 13, 2010, 06:43 AM
Other than that, about a 3 hour trip across the border to Kites and Fun Things,1049 South Mail St, Plymouth, MI ,48170.

Uh, isn't that the manufacturers address?

Thanks Tempest, I'll try the other places you suggested.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 13, 2010, 06:53 AM
A one pound package can ship as cheaply as $5.00 ... of course it is first class mail and length / size restrictions apply but it would work on a small handful of rods ... just an option in case you can't buy locally.

Thanks Steve

If I can't come up with anything in Canada, I'll let you know.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: tempest on April 13, 2010, 08:39 AM
Yes it is, but it is also a kite shop.
 Is that right Steve,  the cost is only $5  to ship to Ontario, i am interested in getting a few spars as well?


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: Allen Carter on April 13, 2010, 11:13 AM
The last thing I want to do is break stuff.


Think again. Avoiding breaking stuff makes kite flying less fun and steepens the learning curve considerably. Breaking kite sticks isn't a matter of IF, but When, so having a few spare parts on hand will keep you flying. I don't know about 6 when you're just starting out, but a spare or two makes sense.

I broke more sticks in the first two years of flying than in the last ten, so it does become less of an issue over time.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: JimB on April 13, 2010, 11:49 AM
Unless you are working on stuff that breaks kites, then it goes back up..

 ::) ???


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: chilese on April 13, 2010, 12:24 PM
This photo just never gets old:  :) (Jim Byrne (my favorite kite model) practicing his submission hold on the C21 Extreme.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_3waCPW86CRA/S2kNVxY4Y6I/AAAAAAAANMc/VtIxR__DwQw/s800/13%20c21%20ul%20good.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2003Kites#5433889093085324194)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 13, 2010, 03:53 PM
Is that right Steve,  the cost is only $5  to ship to Ontario, i am interested in getting a few spars as well?

Tempest - PM sent.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: xuzme720 on April 13, 2010, 08:19 PM
This photo just never gets old:  :) (Jim Byrne (my favorite kite model) practicing his submission hold on the C21 Extreme.
What happened? That looks pretty brutal!


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: JimB on April 13, 2010, 09:01 PM
Level One cut the upper 2pt (or 2p - can't remember the exact framing) down past the re-enforced section.

Add one Sleeping Beauty in thick grass and you get Two de-laminated ULE's.

 ???

The fix is to glue some extra carbon into the rod after cutting.

 ::)



Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: xuzme720 on April 14, 2010, 04:24 AM
Hmm, I see. At first glance it looks much worse than just the ULE's! When I first saw the pic, my first thought was "did it get run over?" lol


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: chilese on April 14, 2010, 12:13 PM
I asked Jim to push on the leading edges to bring the break angles closer to 90°.

Always go for the dramatic with someone else's kite (In this case the most infamous of all Dreamweaver Kites, Jim's Masquerade (which he has since given to me)) You have got to love this guy:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_3waCPW86CRA/S2iPOPe9UII/AAAAAAAALzA/4-jH_-i9XQk/s800/119%20masquerade%20wet.JPG) (http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2003Kites#5433750425259823234)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: xuzme720 on April 14, 2010, 08:40 PM
Wow! Look at that standoff bending! ??? I agree, better someone elses than mine!


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 26, 2010, 07:16 PM
Breaking kite sticks isn't a matter of IF, but When, so having a few spare parts on hand will keep you flying.

Well, I just flew for the first time since fixing my MANTIS.....

...and I broke it. >:( Again. :(

Lower Spreader on the other side.

At least this time I did it flying (read that as crashing) at least thats better than steping on it. :-[

Good thing I ordered 2. ;)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: normofthenorth on April 28, 2010, 10:16 AM
I think the US Post Office still has a special First-Class International "loophole" for mailing tubes ("rolls"), that allows longer lengths than for packages. Up to 36"L if the tube is skinny enough (3"D IIRC), then the L drops with increasing D, maybe 1"L lost for every 1/2"D gained. Regular boxes max out at 24"L, so not much good for stiff spars.

Norm NDMPC once squeezed a big Rokakku kite into a 36"Lx3"D tube for me, to save me some bucks on postage! (Thanks again.)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: Steve Hall on April 28, 2010, 10:59 AM
Exactly Norm.  Seems that this disappeared for a while but is now back.

Rolls: Max. length 36". Max length and twice the diameter combined 42"

To Canada this can make shipping as cheap as $5 for a one pound package.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: thief on April 28, 2010, 01:30 PM
the other big thing is if you ship priority mail in your own packaging materials you can get away with MUCH longer lengths than if you used the USPS supplied priority mail materials.

i just shipped Charly a box that was 65" long priority mail.....

i find that this works as well over to the UK  and S.E. Asia (not certain yet about canada)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: jeepersjoey on April 28, 2010, 03:57 PM
I am at a loss with the SkyShark tubes.

On my Quantum Pro SUL I have 3PT as the lower spreaders.  They connect together because one end is the male and one is the female end (the male end is a drasticly reduced diameter so that the female piece slides OVER the male piece.

Additionally, I have 2PT as the lower leading edge.  Yet this one is not tapered like the 3PT.

So, if I order a 2PT will it look just like my lower leading edge?
So, if I order a 3PT will it look just like my lower spreader?  Or, will it look like my lower leading edge?

There does not seem to be any options listed when I research (i.e. on Steve's Chico site).  It appears from the listing that they are all the same spars but just different weights and different strengths.

Example: If I buy a 2PT, 3PT, 5PT and 7PT from 10 ft, will they all look the same or is the 3PT ONLY used for lower spreader and therefore has the different look?



Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 28, 2010, 04:24 PM
I am at a loss with the SkyShark tubes.

On my Quantum Pro SUL I have 3PT as the lower spreaders.  They connect together because one end is the male and one is the female end (the male end is a drasticly reduced diameter so that the female piece slides OVER the male piece.


A visit to the parts store on Prism's web site shows the lower spreder as two parts.  The "male" side is just a 3PT rod with a solid carbon ferrule glued in place. The other half of your LS is just  straight 3PT rod. Ferrules and rods can be bought through Steve.  You should be able to find a complete list of all the part for your Q-Pro. I believe Steve is a prism dealer.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: xuzme720 on April 28, 2010, 04:45 PM
Are your LE rods tapered? I have a Qpro SUL but really haven't paid much attention to the framing...I might have to dig it out and check them.

Lower spreaders are joined at the center tee with a ferrule. Just about every rod join will have a ferrule. Some are internal like what you see(smaller diameter rod/tube glued inside primary rod) or external (tube with an internal diameter that matches outside diameter of primary rod). External is usually seen with solid framing. The differences in skyshark rods is mainly in the thickness and therefore stiffness. The internal diameters on the thick end are the same. Maybe that is what you are seeing. The reason for this is you only need one size ferrule for center tee joins of the rods.



Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: xuzme720 on April 28, 2010, 04:52 PM
I am at a loss with the SkyShark tubes.

On my Quantum Pro SUL I have 3PT as the lower spreaders.  They connect together because one end is the male and one is the female end (the male end is a drasticly reduced diameter so that the female piece slides OVER the male piece.

Additionally, I have 2PT as the lower leading edge.  Yet this one is not tapered like the 3PT.

So, if I order a 2PT will it look just like my lower leading edge?
So, if I order a 3PT will it look just like my lower spreader?  Or, will it look like my lower leading edge?

There does not seem to be any options listed when I research (i.e. on Steve's Chico site).  It appears from the listing that they are all the same spars but just different weights and different strengths.

Example: If I buy a 2PT, 3PT, 5PT and 7PT from 10 ft, will they all look the same or is the 3PT ONLY used for lower spreader and therefore has the different look?


They will LOOK the same but if you measure the outside they will be different sizes. The wall thickness varies but the inside is mostly the same as I said...
I hope this clears it up a little. I have been doing some shopping for the rods since I started building my own airframes...


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: Steve Hall on April 28, 2010, 05:03 PM
Yes Paul  from 10 feet PT's look the same (in fact from 10 ft. all tapered rods look alike).  The "T" designation stands for Tapered.  As pointed out above the difference is in the thickness of the wall which is achieved by additional warps of carbon (and other stuff) on the spar.  Thicker walls add stiffness and weight.  Current Sky Shark spars (with the exception of 8 P's and Nitro's) all have an internal diameter of .244 inches on the large end.  Ferrules for these rods are cut from .240 solid carbon.

Our listings for Sky Shark rods all have complete spec's for the spars.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: xuzme720 on April 28, 2010, 05:13 PM
I thought 2PT's were .244 also. Or did you mean 2P's (they are discontinued, so maybe it doesn't matter...)


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: jeepersjoey on April 28, 2010, 07:56 PM
It is starting to make sense.

My lower spreader are two of the same pieces of 3PT connected head-to-head.  The left one (in this example) has a solid rod installed in it so that the right one will connect to it.  So, if I wanted to replace both lower spreaders I would buy two 3PT and a solid rod.

The upper leading edge and the lower leading edge are the same 2PT but there is a ferrel installed in the ULE that allows the LLE to connect to it.

Is this sounding correct?

What was throwing me for a loop was that I did not realize that a solid rod was installed in the 3PT.  I thought it was part of the spar.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: mikenchico on April 28, 2010, 10:43 PM
Yep, the solid rod you're referring to is called a Ferrule (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=87), you'll use the 2.5" for the leading edges and the 4.0" for the spreaders. The longer length used on the spreaders is to allow for the width of the Center T, when replacing the spreaders you won't center the ferrule in the spreader like you would on the leading edge, you need to factor in the width of the center T so the insert point will be 2" - (1/2 the center T width).

Hints: Wrap some masking tape around the ferrule at that point before gluing & inserting it to act as a stop to avoid pushing the ferrule too far in, it never fails if you push it too far in the glue will bond instantly at the wrong point. It also allows you to insert it quickly with confidence so the glue doesn't bond before it's in far enough. The glue goes inside the spar, not on the ferrule, if you put it on the ferrule you will get a buildup of glue where the rods meet that may cause the female rod to split if you don't get it cleaned up immediately. Check that the ferrule will insert into the rod before gluing, once in a while you'll find there may be a burr or irregularity that will hinder a smooth insert. Clean the ferrule and inside of the spar with a mild solvent or rubbing alcohol to remove any release agents for a good bond, some people recommend using some 400 grit sand paper to get a better bite.

If you ever need to replace your 2PT's be sure to measure the diameter, they have been available in both .244 inside diameter & .234 I.D. currently I believe only the .234 ID is available in the 32.5" length.



Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: iwannafly on April 29, 2010, 06:13 AM
Yep, the solid rod you're referring to is called a Ferrule ([url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=87[/url]), you'll use the 2.5" for the leading edges and the 4.0" for the spreaders. The longer length used on the spreaders is to allow for the width of the Center T, when replacing the spreaders you won't center the ferrule in the spreader like you would on the leading edge, you need to factor in the width of the center T so the insert point will be 2" - (1/2 the center T width).

Hints: Wrap some masking tape around the ferrule at that point before gluing & inserting it to act as a stop to avoid pushing the ferrule too far in, it never fails if you push it too far in the glue will bond instantly at the wrong point.


Be sure to use the 4" ferrule. I used a 3.5" ferrule to fix my MANTIS a week ago. Even though it was perfectly centered, I think the shorter ferrule did put a bit too much force in a section of the spreader it was inserted. I ended up with a 2.5-3" crack along the length of one of the LS.


Title: Re: Sky Shark rods in Toronto
Post by: Steve Hall on April 29, 2010, 11:21 AM
I thought 2PT's were .244 also. Or did you mean 2P's (they are discontinued, so maybe it doesn't matter...)

Oops.  You are correct Gary.  Changed my original post.  Must have been in a time warp ...once upon a time they were a smaller diameter ... which is good to know in case you are replacing a 2PT on an older kite.  You will want to check the internal diameter on those before ordering a replacement