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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: dhayden on April 22, 2010, 10:11 PM



Title: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: dhayden on April 22, 2010, 10:11 PM
Been playing around with an older Gemini.  I have tried Wardley's xactive bridle with some nice results.  Any suggestions on getting this kite to go deeper into a turtle?  Having trouble trying to lazy susan , especailly when doing JL's.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: JimB on April 23, 2010, 12:44 AM
There are people who weight them.

Approximately Eight Grams on each spine or alternatively, one weight at the base of the center standoff down near the sail.

The Benson Twins have some info on this:

http://www.bensontwins.nl/index.htm (http://www.bensontwins.nl/index.htm)

In the end, the Gem takes just that extra bit of slack to stay in the back flip. The standard Gem is a demon at JL's when you get the hang of it.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: inewham on April 23, 2010, 12:58 AM
While the weight helps, its also a matter of technique. Bensons generally need to be *put* into a turtle, they don't settle there like some kites. The DS is the same. Be more aggressive popping it onto its back to get it to go deeper and hit your lazy susan immediately, don't wait for it to settle.

In fact IMO BoTs, Gems and DS's are happier if you keep them constantly and quickly flowing from one element of move to the next; they don't like to settle before anything really.   


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: Hadge on April 23, 2010, 04:46 AM
You can also pull the trickline in closer to the trailing edge which allows the kite to fall deeper into the turtle.  As I remember the standard measurement is 15cm and you shorten the lines running from the standoffs to 8cm.  You'll need a longer piece of bridle line for the new trickline or you can cut the original in half and put a short length of elastic cord in the middle like the Outerspace.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: benjai on April 23, 2010, 05:33 AM
Good advice on the mods above. I run 7 grams (I think) in the tail of each spine (velcro weights like the DS) and the pulled in trickline. All helps, but the key is that the kite flies best and looks best when flowing from one move to the next. So in the JL, you pop for the half lazy while the nose is still going back. It looks good when done nicely, but you have to think ahead...

This is far from the greatest Gem flying ever, but there are a bunch of flapjacks and a JL at the end that show the absence of a pause or settling into the backflip before the spin input. Hopefully it helps...

Caribbean Gem Twenty Ten (http://vimeo.com/10592229)


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: Bob D on April 23, 2010, 02:38 PM
That's truly inspirational! Nice editing too!


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: Jimmer on April 23, 2010, 04:16 PM
That video made me want to run out and BUY a Gem ASAP!  :D
Nice flying!


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: SMG on May 08, 2010, 08:24 PM
Lol, I just did buy a Gem because of this vid. I just wish I could fly mine like that.

Cheers,
Sean


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: GWTWNewb on May 12, 2010, 05:19 PM
A Gemini with a deep turtle is very, very, wrong.  ???


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: RobB on May 12, 2010, 05:51 PM
I was watching 'Stoked in the Park', and I can't see the trickline on ABW's kite. The October & November ones, I think. Does everyone fly the Gem with a trickline ? It could be that the videos just aren't good enough quality to see the trickline ?
~Rob.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: zippy8 on May 12, 2010, 06:14 PM
Does everyone fly the Gem with a trickline ? It could be that the videos just aren't good enough quality to see the trickline ?

Please tell me that you are familiar with this  (http://tinyurl.com/3ae37ud)?

Mike.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: cids on May 12, 2010, 08:44 PM
Only Lars and other advance fliers can do the turtle in the Gem. The rest just cannot do it.  :'( :'( :'(  And then Gem for sell in the Swap Meet section.   :D


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: JimB on May 12, 2010, 10:08 PM
You guys are all too used to all these modern kites that lock into a back flip to the exclusion of all else.

The Gem does just fine in a back flip. It just doesn't live there.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: Steve Hall on May 12, 2010, 10:08 PM
I fly an original Gem with no mods.
I got no complaints.  JL's are just fine.  You need to change your technique, not the kite.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: Steve Hall on May 12, 2010, 10:09 PM
hmm ... separated at birth?


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: JimB on May 12, 2010, 10:25 PM
And further more.. may I remind you that the Pogo Stick was invented on the Gem with a trick line no less, you know: throw the kite into a deep back flip and let the kite fall nose down until it hits the ground and bounces back up still in the back flip? Yeah that's right.

Finish off with an Acid Drop and go have a beer.

jeeze.

hey bro.. ;)


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: steve.hobart on May 12, 2010, 11:43 PM
I agree with Steve's comments bove, there's nothing wrong with the Gem.

While I fly my Fearless vented and SUL most of this time, I have been flying my 2010 Gem a lot recently - The gem tricks with the best of them (even if the original design is pretty old) -  and actually Axels, Double Axels and does wraps easier and with more style than the Fearless IMHO..

(Mind you the Fearless is easier to trick, stays on its back longer and is more forgiving of poorer technique.).

The Gem JL's easily, but as Steve says - more slack is required and I find I need to adjust my technique (and move my feet more) moving from the Fearless to the Gem - not an issue with the kites, just my flying style (I find I am getting away with poorer technique on the Fearless but on the Gem I need to clean up the technque a bit - not a bad thing actually).

cheers

steve


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: tpatter on May 13, 2010, 12:15 AM
I think of it and the DS as "flow" kites.  Faster pace, keep it moving, timing critical, not much in the way of waiting around for the kite.  Fly one for a few days and then move to a kite like the Nirvana and it feels like bullet time in the Matrix - slow mo and stable.

I'm not saying ones better than the other, just different. 

The turtle is a good example of how they differ - the Gem JLs just fine, its just harder to do (imo, due to tighter timing requirements) than it is on the Nirvana.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: RobB on May 13, 2010, 01:28 AM
Does everyone fly the Gem with a trickline ? It could be that the videos just aren't good enough quality to see the trickline ?

Please tell me that you are familiar with this  ([url]http://tinyurl.com/3ae37ud[/url])?

Mike.

No, I hadn't seen that one, thanks for the link. Now I have to get my sister to translate it for me, but I can see a trickline in the pictures. Was the 'Stoked in the Park' series ever released in a higher quality ? It's tough to watch full screen with the versions that I have.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: cids on May 13, 2010, 04:04 AM
Yes, the Gem is a 'rare gem' in the kite world. In the hands of Lars or other 'advance' fliers, its true ability shine through.

But when my kite pal got one, not one but two(STD & UL), he was like 8 months old in tricking kite age.  He spent like a month or so to do a simple turtle and just can't do it.  He added weights on the spines, middle, nose, US, LS or even at the wing tips. A little help.  No turtle = no nothing.  No JL and every turtle based tricks.  Yes, he can do endless backspin, at least 50+ rotations.  :D  At the same time I was flying the Fearless STD and learnt tricks at light speed.  His progess stalled and got confused and then switched to other kites and stopped flying the Gem totally.  Remember this was from a 'beginner' with baby's IQ kite tricking point of view and this was his experience.

After that we conluded that some modifications on the bridle construction, weight installed somewhere and some 'super' technique will get it to turtle.
 
The forgiving thing in the Fearless is a good thing and can benefit for fliers from every levels.  This is a kite that you never outgrown.  

A big kite go slower. A bigger German kite goes even slower.  They are just different flying styles + physic.  That's all.   :) 



Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: inewham on May 13, 2010, 04:39 AM
 ::)

Come back Frazer.
I so understand where you were coming from ???


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: zippy8 on May 13, 2010, 05:09 AM
After that we conluded that some modifications on the bridle construction, weight installed somewhere and some 'super' technique will get it to turtle.

There is a special circle of Hell for some people......

(http://www.elisanet.fi/mike.emery/Smilies/No%20no%20no.gif)

Mike.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: adx1592 on May 13, 2010, 07:03 AM
YOU MODDED A FEARLESS.?!


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: Bob D on May 13, 2010, 07:10 AM
Maybe I'm a masochist but as much as I like the Fearless and it's forgiving nature I'm making a concerted effort to improve my technique so I'm sticking with the Nirvana for now. I don't have the Gem but I DO have the Minigem and it's a faster kite that definitely requires really good technique.

I have to say though it's nice to learn on a kite that's forgiving so that you can at least figure out the inputs to make a trick work. The downside is that you might not necessarily learn good technique.

I did my first ever flap jack and slot machine last week with the Nirvana as well as practicing flair landings. The wind was about 10 mph and it wasn't just a slight breeze so I was pretty stoked that I was able to do what I did.

Bottom line: It's about fun and not frustration. Fly the kite you have fun with.

I never heard of the pogo stick... Jim's a font of knowledge! It's great having him in my backyard - so to speak.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: tpatter on May 13, 2010, 08:55 AM
In my opinion, good technique is all about critique and practice, it's somewhat less critical what kite you fly (to a reasonable degree) - but some will get your started much faster. 



Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: cids on May 13, 2010, 09:15 AM
The 'pogo stick' trick sounds like fun thing to do. I will try it in the next session. :D


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: RobB on May 13, 2010, 09:22 AM
Is the 'pogo stick' the last trick in 'Stoked in the Park' October '04 ?


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: JimB on May 13, 2010, 09:46 AM
yep.

To an acid drop.


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: ko on May 13, 2010, 04:55 PM
::)
.
I so understand where you were coming from ???


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: RobB on May 13, 2010, 05:07 PM
yep.

To an acid drop.
That is probably my favorite 'SITP' month, and that 'pogo stick' last trick always blows my mind ! If I spend my life getting half that good at flying, I'll die happy...


Title: Re: Getting a Gem to go deeper into a turtle
Post by: 711jrp on May 15, 2010, 03:23 AM
Is the 'pogo stick' the last trick in 'Stoked in the Park' October '04 ?

I was under the impression that trick was called the nose bone.