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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: serge on April 29, 2010, 09:11 AM



Title: sul
Post by: serge on April 29, 2010, 09:11 AM
need advice whit SUL .which one??
fearless ?
nirvana ?
or ?????         
thank you.
SERGE.

 :-\ :-\


Title: Re: sul
Post by: RobB on April 29, 2010, 09:33 AM
My favorite SUL for tricks is the Fearless SUL. My goto kite when nothing else will fly is my Prism Ozone. It's just a little limitted in the tricks dept, though.
The Exile UL could be considered a SUL by most terms, and it's a great kite, as well.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on April 29, 2010, 10:29 AM
My flying pal has a Fearless SUL and STD. He tricks his SUL just like the Fearless STD and it looks so good.

I would say you should buy a F SUL. It will be your first and last SUL. :D


Title: Re: sul
Post by: ezme6 on April 29, 2010, 12:57 PM
Save some $ in the long run, get the Fearless, and you will never need or want another SUL... 8)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: KaoS on April 29, 2010, 05:08 PM
It depends what you want a SUL for. 

A Pro Dancer SUL will fly in much lower wind (or lack of) than almost any other kite, but it won't trick apart from flat spins, axels and fades.

HQ Shadow will have stronger pull on the lines than most ULs in a given wind, and it is pretty tricky.

Fearless SUL is a very well made and popular kite.  I bought one based on its reputation, and sold it a week later - just not what I was looking for in a SUL.

I'm still looking...


Title: Re: sul
Post by: ezme6 on April 29, 2010, 07:57 PM
It depends what you want a SUL for. 

A Pro Dancer SUL will fly in much lower wind (or lack of) than almost any other kite, but it won't trick apart from flat spins, axels and fades.

HQ Shadow will have stronger pull on the lines than most ULs in a given wind, and it is pretty tricky.

Fearless SUL is a very well made and popular kite.  I bought one based on its reputation, and sold it a week later - just not what I was looking for in a SUL.

I'm still looking...


Just curious, how much air time did you give the Fearless in that week?


Title: Re: sul
Post by: DWayne on April 29, 2010, 08:57 PM
Just curious, how much air time did you give the Fearless in that week?

Enough to know he didn't like it?

Try a Cosmic TC SUL.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Beachbum on April 29, 2010, 09:03 PM
Just curious, how much air time did you give the Fearless in that week?

Enough to know he didn't like it?

Try a Cosmic TC SUL.  ;)

Denny

I believe it wouldn't take that long.

Oh, and the Cosmic SUL goes by Ghost.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: JimB on April 29, 2010, 09:04 PM
New School:

See above.

Old School:

Benson InnerSpace.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: KaoS on April 30, 2010, 04:05 AM
...
Fearless SUL is a very well made and popular kite.  I bought one based on its reputation, and sold it a week later - just not what I was looking for in a SUL.

I'm still looking...

Just curious, how much air time did you give the Fearless in that week?

About 30 minutes


Title: Re: sul
Post by: tempest on April 30, 2010, 05:26 AM
I am also curious to know what were  you looking for, if i may ask ? 


Title: Re: sul
Post by: glider on April 30, 2010, 08:12 AM
Pro Dancer SUL (old school for when nothing else will fly)
Zerostar (my favorite SUL)
Fearless SUL (for tricks, if I ever get bored with the axeling the Zerostar)



Title: Re: sul
Post by: mikenchico on April 30, 2010, 08:36 AM
...
Fearless SUL is a very well made and popular kite.  I bought one based on its reputation, and sold it a week later - just not what I was looking for in a SUL.

I'm still looking...

Just curious, how much air time did you give the Fearless in that week?

About 30 minutes

Sometimes you know first flight, I've experienced that. We all have our preference  on how a kite should feel & react. I don't like oversteer & I don't like a kite that falls nose forward after a trick in lower winds, others like those features and can exploit them to roll into the next trick. I'm too slow so they hinder me.

YMMV


Title: Re: sul
Post by: tpatter on April 30, 2010, 08:52 AM
I think glider hit the nail on the head - it depends on what you want to do with the kite and how you like to fly.

For low winds, I fly the Fearless SUL, Shadow, and iTrix depending on how I feel like flying at the time.  They are all great kites IMO, they just completely different.

My best advice is to scour the net and watch video of what people do with the kites that you are interested in.  If you like what you see, then get that one.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Gamelord on April 30, 2010, 11:17 AM
I have replaced my Shadow with the Widow Maker UL.  It does amazingly well in the light or near zero winds.  It may not be a direct replacement for the Innerspace - but for me it comes incredibly close.  It is very trickable and fairly easy to fly in 1-2 mph with minimal work**.  With the tail weight out and US removed you can fly it in winds that are virtually non-existent (.5 mph ish??).  I have had the WM UL out when others were flying their Innerspace.  For true zero winds, the Innerspace is the ticket but it is only capable of maybe 2-3 tricks.  In 3mph winds, the WM UL is a dream to fly and can do more than I am capable of - and does them extremely well!

**Now - minimal work means that you are not running backwards but you are still moving your feet.  I feel that if you can pump the kite up fairly easy with a step or two backwards and then do a decent glide to get back to (or further) than you started then the kite is flyable.  I don't run with my kites - although with my belly size I probably should. :)

This opinion is worth what you paid for it. :) :) :)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Dave a on April 30, 2010, 09:03 PM
I think what Kevin (and myself) look for in a SUL is primarily a kite that will fly well in almost zero wind.
The Pro Dancer is the best kite either of us has seen for that requirement.
Some peoples idea of SUL winds probably dont match up with ours, hence a lot of talk about other kites being all you will ever need.

When Kevin bought the Fearless im sure he was hoping for something that flew in similar winds as the PD, but more trickable.
It certainly was more trickable (and beautifully made), but it certainly didnt fly in anywhere near the low/zero winds of the PD.
...and thats probably why it was sold, it wasnt his idea of what a SUL should be primarily about, despite being a good kite in the right winds.

Sorry if ive spoken out of turn Kevin  :-[



Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 01, 2010, 09:22 AM
Here are some data from Lam's site regarding the weight of the F SUL:
• 7 Oz/192 grams  (SUL)

The F SUL is 192 grams in weight, you don't expect it to fly at almost 0 wind. It is important to read the spec. of the kite before buying.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: KaoS on May 01, 2010, 04:50 PM
Here are some data from Lam's site regarding the weight of the F SUL:
• 7 Oz/192 grams  (SUL)

The F SUL is 192 grams in weight, you don't expect it to fly at almost 0 wind. It is important to read the spec. of the kite before buying.


I have a number of ULs that fly in 2 mph winds, so I expect to fly a SUL in almost 0 wind.  It is important to label a kite appropriately


Title: Re: sul
Post by: st3307 on May 01, 2010, 04:57 PM
I have a  PD SUL  and  when  I buy  another  SUL type kite if it won't  fly as  low as my PD SUL  I put it  back on the market   I have  owned  a PD SUL for 13 years    do not own another  SUL  I would even say come  close   to flyin   in it  wind range   and if you have the  skills  and  the  will to  fly one  in almost   no wind what so ever    it   is very graceful   and  flys    almost   like  a  slow   dance   up  close  with a  fine woman    but  just  my 2 cents 


Title: Re: sul
Post by: tpatter on May 01, 2010, 05:13 PM
If it doesn't maintain the tricking abilities of the Fearless, then I also would not want to call it a Fearless SUL - that would be mis-labeling.  I've flown alot of SUL versions of a specific kite that share the kites name only - this one flys like a Fearless with less mass.

It flys and tricks in 1mph.  In my experience so far, it's the best SUL modern trick capable kite that I've flown.  If you want to just do axels and fades then most indoor kites will do that just fine and weight only a few ozs, but they won't JL, rollup, comete, etc.

Having said that, I would LOVE to buy a smallish kite that weighs 2oz and does all the tricks with ease in <1mph.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 01, 2010, 06:10 PM
 :D :D :D


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Steve Hall on May 01, 2010, 06:43 PM
In my opinion (for what that is worth) the most important thing in very low and no wind flying is the skill level of the pilot much more so than standard wind kites.  Basing what kite to buy on the opinions of others is a crap shoot at best but when deciding on a UL/SUL I have found it to be foolish.

You need to have realistic expectations of what you hope to perform with the kite.  With all due respect to those that have posted here I have found that claims as to the wind that UL and SUL's are being flown in and the tricks that are actually being performed are not always accurate.  Most any kite will fly in low and no wind (I'd point to the Thor's Hammer being flown indoors if I had the link) but, IMO, flying in low wind should require very little effort to maintain your field position.

I do apologize to any that I may have offended but I am ready to be proven wrong.  Grab your favorite SUL and head over to Chico.  I always have at least one TTUL that is ready for a challenge.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Lee S on May 01, 2010, 07:20 PM
Here are some data from Lam's site regarding the weight of the F SUL:
• 7 Oz/192 grams  (SUL)

The F SUL is 192 grams in weight, you don't expect it to fly at almost 0 wind. It is important to read the spec. of the kite before buying.


Good lord, a 7 oz SUL??????  Those of us who have been at it quite a while probably have several Standard wind kites that weigh that much. I know of several of mine that weigh even slightly less. Back in the day (insert really old guy quote here) a SUL had to be in the 4 oz weight range (for a 7-8 ft kite) to be really worthy. How times have changed.

My present favorite "tricky" SUL is the Sano SSZ, my favorite "old school" kite is the Synchro.

My advice, since whatever you buy will cost you a pretty nickel, is try to test fly anything and everything you can get your hands on. Personal styles will weigh heavily on your decision, which is why someone can fly a kite for part of a day and fall in love or hate with it.  Doesn't make sense to buy something expensive you don't like, even if someone else claims it's the be-all of the kite world.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 02, 2010, 09:24 AM
I think there are alot of misunderstanding here regarding SUL. But also everyone are passionate about their favorite kites. That's a good thing.  :)

My kite friend Serge should stated more regarding what he needs in the SUL. Does he want to do all the tricks that are available or just axel or a few other simple tricks ? 0 wind or very little wind etc ? It will help us to make recommendations for you.

If you like to fly and trick(full trickability from TP1-5 or at least most of the known tricks) with your kite in low wind, the only answer from me is the Fearless SUL. It is a wonderful kite since my kite pal owns one. He can trick the SUL just like his F STD. The video below will help you to decide whether F SUL is a good kite or not. The second video shows it did the comete and other tricks. How many so-called SUL can do that ?

FearLess SUL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoRwiY8BskM#lq-hq)

L A Fearless Pairs in Action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seujnxzBlf0&playnext_from=TL&videos=NnnU6SDbjm4#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)

It looks like every kite makers and end users have their own definitions on SUL. Very confusing.
The Fearless SUL when compares to the Fearless STD(315 grams), then it is classified as SUL in this particular line of Fearless kites only. I believed a 'Master' flier like Lam can make it work on 0 or very very low wind. An ability that none of us can or ever achieved.

I'm not interested in any so-called SUL that cannot do trick from TP1 to TP5 or most of the known tricks in the book.

Life is short and I would like to learn to trick a kite ASAP.





Title: Re: sul
Post by: zippy8 on May 02, 2010, 10:11 AM
the only answer from me is the Fearless
I think we've all learnt that by now  ::)

A proper trick-worthy SUL that actually flies like the rest of the range is a rarity and usually quite an expensive one. Simply hacking the weight from any kite is not guaranteed to work at all. I'm extremely happy with the Cosmic TC Ghost that has saved a couple of flying days for me. I'm sure there are others, I've just not tried them.

Mike.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: mikenchico on May 02, 2010, 10:54 AM
I think there are alot of misunderstanding here regarding SUL...

I agree and we often end up trying to compare apples to oranges.

My definition of "Flying" is the ability to reach the top of the window without breaking a sweat backing up and pumping the lines. Others whose flying style under any conditions is to just get the kite in the air and immediately go into trick sequences ending in a two point landing have a different definition of "Flying". If I can't work a kite back downwind when I've lost field in 2 MPH then it's not flying in my book.

By my definition the SSUL that can do all the tricks hasn't appeared yet and may never appear since the aerodynamics of low wind flight differ widely from the aerodynamics of the modern trick kite.



Title: Re: sul
Post by: ko on May 02, 2010, 12:21 PM
steve love to see the slow and floaty vid again


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Dave a on May 02, 2010, 03:27 PM
The Fearless SUL when compares to the Fearless STD(315 grams), then it is classified as SUL in this particular line of Fearless kites only.
And just because Toyota put a "Sports" badge on their 4 door family sedan does not make it a sports car, even if it is the "sportiest" model in that range.

But as stated before, its important to know what winds you really want to fly in, and what you want to do before putting your money down.
..Much like the Toyota i suppose


Title: Re: sul
Post by: ae on May 02, 2010, 03:50 PM
Low wind flying is tricky to define. What is flying?
For me, its when i can take a step back to bring the kite airborne and it can fly on its own stright up.
For others its when it can at least fly a figure eight, whiel for another its when they can pump the kite up and do tricks.
Each results in a vastly different lowend range. When with the same kind.
the pump results in the lowest rating, while the stright up the highest. The different can be easily as big as 2 mph or more.

For example, from todays flying session. Someone had a Amazing indoor kite. it flew nicely,  but he had to keep pumping it to keep it airborn. while i could still fly my Spectre stright up. On the other hand, he could do some tricks with the amazing, while the Spectre can't.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: KaoS on May 02, 2010, 05:35 PM

...The second video shows it did the comete and other tricks. How many so-called SUL can do that ?


The Nirvana that Serge asked about in the first place can also do those, as can a number of other kites that fly in the same wind as a Fearless SUL (Widowmaker UL, Talon UL, DS UL...).  But that doesn't make either of them "the best".

Both of those kites are popular and have many dedicated fans and owners, but they don't suit everyone.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: DaveH on May 02, 2010, 06:31 PM
Yup.  My QP SUL is capable of all that stuff, but its not my cup of tea.  My favorite SUL is my Ozone.  Smooth, floaty and elegant.  If I'm going to do tricks I prefer the mass of an std.   To each his own.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: tpatter on May 02, 2010, 08:17 PM
Both of those kites are popular and have many dedicated fans and owners, but they don't suit everyone.

Amen brother!  :)

One thing that IS for certain is that there is no universal best kite for all whether its an SUL, STD, Vent, Light, or any combination of these.

Its kind of like cars - most folks check out the specs, read some reviews, test drive it, and then there is likely something specific (manufacturer reputation, color, "feel", cup holders, seats, whatever) that makes you go with one specific model over the others.

Best advice with kites is to just keep trying them until you find one that suits you; there seem to be few shortcuts in finding your favorite kite.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: obijuankenobe on May 03, 2010, 02:39 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but it's really all semantics.

If you mean literally flying in zero wind, good luck.  1000 answers...all not quite ideal.  Flying in zero wind is a compromising situation regardless of the stunt kite of choice.  Here, you will need to learn how to make it fun by practicing alot in these conditions.  You will NEVER find a true SUL stunt kite than is as fun to pump and trick as it's standard buddy is to fly and trick in wind.  This kite would need to stretch the laws of physics.

If you mean flying in some wind...anything where smoke from a cigarette moves away from you in a predictable direction...loads of UL's will fly well.  This is much more pilot dependent than kite dependent, given a reasonably good SUL/UL kite.

Be careful:  Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that a particular/special SUL will give you a significant number of additional days on the field flying.  IT WON'T.  Practice with any decent SUL will get you what you want.  If it is the compliment to your standard, even better.


obi

(And with regard to the Fearless SUL video:  ENOUGH is really ENOUGH.  Anyone who knows a little of what they are talking about will agree that the comete needs wind, or pretty significant backward movement, and often a bit of both.  Those pilots are hardly moving while doing a pretty aggressive comete.  There is nothing to see there, other than a nice pairs comete to the ground.  Clearly this is some wind flying.  Doing a single direction comete to the ground with some wind on an SUL/UL is NOT by any stretch of the imagination unusual. 

Wake up and smell the coffee.  The only unusual thing about the Fearless is how it gives away tricks like the insane, insane L/R, and other lazy based stuff.  The low and high range of these kites is not significant breakthrough in stunt kite design regardless of the glee club's claims.)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Kantaxel on May 03, 2010, 04:46 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but it's really all semantics.

If

Man that horse has been aged and more than tenderized.................it quit whinnying three weeks ago ;)

Think it's time to cut and wrap it , and then....get it in the freezer before it starts to stink :( ::)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: obijuankenobe on May 03, 2010, 09:41 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but it's really all semantics.

If

Man that horse has been aged and more than tenderized.................it quit whinnying three weeks ago ;)

Think it's time to cut and wrap it , and then....get it in the freezer before it starts to stink :( ::)

 :D

obi


Title: Re: sul
Post by: jaybett on May 03, 2010, 09:47 AM
 

Wake up and smell the coffee.  The only unusual thing about the Fearless is how it gives away tricks like the insane, insane L/R, and other lazy based stuff.  The low and high range of these kites is not significant breakthrough in stunt kite design regardless of the glee club's claims.)


And you know this how...?

When did anybody in the Fearless community claim that it was a break through in wind range? One of the features of the Fearless is its wide wind range.

When fans of any kite, answer that their chosen model is the best choice no matter the conditions, that is short sighted to say the least. Fearless owners have made this mistake, but so have Talon, Cosmic TC, and even Transfer XTS, owners.

Why is it that some advanced fliers get bent so out of shape, when a developing flier makes an enthusiastic statement about a kite, that often times is over board? Advanced fliers, always say that it is more about skills, then it is the kite. I agree with that statement.  Advanced fliers also have been quick to point out that it isn't a kite that can't do a trick, but the flier.

One would think that the advanced fliers could care less, what a developing flier has to say about a kite. For whatever reason some advanced fliers feel the need to show that a kite really isn't as great as developing fliers think it is.

Jay  



 


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 03, 2010, 10:14 AM
Quote
Clearly this is some wind flying.

I really don't understand regarding the above quote. I never said F SUL don't need wind to fly. Where did you get the idea ?  It needs wind to fly a kite.  If there is no wind, people have to walk backward to create wind. The purpose of showing the Fearless SUL doing comete because it is a complex move.  I thought it might show the trickability aspect of the kite. You might see the particular clip thousands of times but my kite friend Serge and others might not see it before.

Do u own a Fearless yourself ?  Have you fly one before ?  Why so many -ve hot air regarding the FXXXXXXX Kite ?  I own a CXXXXX TC vented myself and I don't like it at all.  I never bad mouth it in a public forum.


Quote
The only unusual thing about the Fearless is how it gives away tricks like the insane, insane L/R, and other lazy based stuff.

Yes, finally you got this right.  I learnt my Flapjack/Multi-Lazy in less than 15 minutes, insane in my first try and Half Axel in 2 days.  Is this bad ?  Every well designed high end kites in the world are designed to give away tricks and this is the reason that I bought my FXXXXXXX and you bought yours. This is the only reason we pay big $$$ on the kite. To make life easier in the field.  It also make me look good too.  :D


Title: Re: sul
Post by: ezme6 on May 03, 2010, 10:28 AM
Right on Jaybett....man not kite. Dodd did more tricks on his old Dynamite than most flyers can do on a $500 kite.... 8)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 03, 2010, 10:39 AM
Man and Machine are equally important.
May be he should try to do a comete or JL on a Wal-mart $20 kite or on my flying pal $3 Shopper Drug Mart stunt kite.  :D


Title: Re: sul
Post by: DWayne on May 03, 2010, 10:46 AM
Quote
Clearly this is some wind flying.

I really don't understand regarding the above quote.

Maybe it has to do with the wind blowing at least 3 mph in that video.

Denny


Title: Re: sul
Post by: zippy8 on May 03, 2010, 11:19 AM
When did anybody in the Fearless community claim that it was a break through in wind range?

Point one: when the hell did the Fearless community spring into life ? You'll be getting like the Rev folks at this rate and that's no way to go through life  :P
Point two: probably somewhere in here (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=2683.0). We won't be going back there so let us all move on in an orderly fashion.

Quote
One of the features of the Fearless is its wide wind range.

True dat.

Quote
Why is it that some advanced fliers get bent so out of shape, when a developing flier makes an enthusiastic statement about a kite, that often times is over board?

I can't speak for them but for me any form of irrational exuberance gets me all ->  ::) A smattering of realism in amongst the enthusiasm is a much more palatable mixture.

How many kites can we recall being introduced as "a Nirvana killer" or the mythical Kite That Saved The World™ ? How many actually were ?

Quote from: cids
Every well designed high end kites in the world are designed to give away tricks

This is not the case. Most kites need a significant input from the flyer, otherwise we'd be called "spectators" instead. A kite that literally rather than figuratively gives away tricks would be of no interest to me and, I suspect, quite a lot of other people who wish to enjoy their flying skills not their ability to buy the right kite.

And by the by.... most people will struggle to feel less than 3mph and the chances of all 3 of those mph coming from the same direction are pretty slim when it gets that calm. And, no, your windspeed meter probably isn't accurate at those sorts of numbers unless it's a hot wire anemometer or something even more exotic.

You can Comète in no wind but you'll lose a lot of altitude and/or ground as you frantically trot backwards.

Now.... where were we ?  ;)

Mike.


Title: Re: sul
Post by: tpatter on May 03, 2010, 11:59 AM

Now.... where were we ?  ;)

Mike.

Serge is looking for advice, seems like he has gotten alot so far.   I think it really comes down to what his specific requirements are in comparing tradeoffs between trickability versus easy flying in no wind.

Based on his initial question of asking specifically about the Fearless or Nirvana, I am pretty sure that he wants all the current tricks out of his SUL and is hopefully aware that flying any of these is zero wind or even 1mph takes some skill that needs to be developed.

If you want a kite that has been built to do all the tricks in little wind, go with Fearless, Nirvana, Cosmic, or DS UL (I've never flown the last 2).  Then, join the fan club for whatever kite you bought!  :)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: DWayne on May 03, 2010, 01:24 PM
This isn't an SUL, its a UL in zero wind.

kiteinthehouse.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgK3gW5JhZ8#lq)

Denny


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 03, 2010, 02:37 PM
Quote
Now.... where were we ? 

I'm heading out to fly my F kite. My F kite still need inputs to do tricks. What about you ?  :)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Kantaxel on May 03, 2010, 04:06 PM
I think the freezer was unplugged........phew!! Can't you smell that smell :-X...................


Title: Re: sul
Post by: xuzme720 on May 03, 2010, 04:23 PM
Serge! Look at what you started! ???


Title: Re: sul
Post by: st3307 on May 03, 2010, 04:47 PM
some  time  it  is  just  best  to   go fly  a kite   so everyone  just  go fly one of  your  kites  and  smile


Title: Re: sul
Post by: ezme6 on May 03, 2010, 04:49 PM
Steve is selling this kite for $65 shipped

http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=3106.0;topicseen (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=3106.0;topicseen)

Like I said, man not kite.

Made in China and all that...


Title: Re: sul
Post by: obijuankenobe on May 04, 2010, 04:40 AM
First off, let's make sure we all know that there is only an SUL when the maker decides to make a kite lighter than their UL.  It means little or nothing, esp. when most standards will overlap with the wind range of both the SUL and UL.  It's very rare that the SUL, UL, and standard are all essential kites.  Most sets I own (and those of dutch pilots I call friends) are UL and standard, or SUL and standard. 

If you mean literally flying in zero wind, good luck.  1000 answers...all not quite ideal.  Flying in zero wind is a compromising situation regardless of the stunt kite of choice.  Here, you will need to learn how to make it fun by practicing alot in these conditions.  You will NEVER find a true SUL stunt kite than is as fun to pump and trick as it's standard buddy is to fly and trick in wind.  This kite would need to stretch the laws of physics.

If you mean flying in some wind...anything where smoke from a cigarette moves away from you in a predictable direction...loads of UL's will fly well.  This is much more pilot dependent than kite dependent, given a reasonably good SUL/UL kite.

Be careful:  Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that a particular/special SUL will give you a significant number of additional days on the field flying.  IT WON'T.  Practice with any decent SUL will get you what you want.  If it is the compliment to your standard, even better.


What part of this is anything but smack on point, dead on balls accurate??  Do I not state 'more pilot dependent than kite dependent'??  Do I not tell him the honest truth...that practice in SUL conditions will make you better, regardless of the kite you choose?  Are there really any experienced fliers who believe that zero wind and low wind flying are the same?  Then what are we on about?  Wouldn't you advise him to buy the SUL that is related to the standard he likes best??  If not, what then?  Learn two or more kites while learning the basics?

I have not flown a Fearless, but I have seen video.  I can tell you that I have also not flown a Vendetta SUL, but that video is INFINITELY more convincing than the Fearless SUL video posted here.  At least in that video, the wind is SUL wind.

One more time for the cheap seats:  Doing a comete to the ground on a UL with some wind is NOTHING unusual at all.  Get over it.  There are literally hundreds of members of this forum who could do that on their respective ULs.  It's not allowed to say, *How many SULs can do that* because the answer is ALL OF THEM!  Sheez.

Fliers post replies whenever developing fliers make claims based on inexperience and glee, rather than measured enthusiasm.  This topic always brings out the crazies.  The Fearless is an expensive, well made, and in the eyes of some, beautiful stunt kite that does everything all the others do while specifically making the insane L/R the easiest trick beside the nose plant.

Like the DS, Nirvana, Cosmic, Vendetta, Sea Devil, and others...it's arguably the best stunt kite in the world. 

obi


Title: Re: sul
Post by: John Welden on May 04, 2010, 06:03 AM
Define what a SUL kite is - GWTW thread number 4006. ::)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 05, 2010, 09:06 AM
Quote
ALL OF THEM!  Sheez.

 :D :D :D


Title: Re: sul
Post by: obijuankenobe on May 06, 2010, 02:30 AM
Quote
ALL OF THEM!  Sheez.

 :D :D :D

Is this funny because you think it's not true?  If so, it's this 'attitude' (untempered by your inexperience) that leads to threads full of frustration regarding SUL/ULs. 

If you can't comete, how would you ever know? 

If you don't have several SUL/ULs, how would you ever know?

I can't comete cascade well, but I guarantee in the conditions in the video, on a Nirvana SUL, Essence UL, SD light, DS UL, and several other kites I would be able to comete in one direction just fine.

obi


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 06, 2010, 03:27 AM
Quote
ALL OF THEM!  Sheez.
:D :D :D

No. You misunderstanding me.
After your comments, I did more searching in the youtube and saw a few more videos regarding other great SUL. Yes, they do fly and trick in very low wind.
Thanks for your advices in helping me to widen my 'field of visions'.

My Comete is still under construction. I got a very consistant first 3 inputs only. One direction only. I cracked through 1.5 rotation only once. What's give ?
   



Title: Re: sul
Post by: Daves1980 on May 10, 2010, 11:50 PM
You are looking for a sul? Looks this! ;)

K2 SUL by Challenger Sails - First flight. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjfpJ3anGpo#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)


Title: Re: sul
Post by: tempest on May 11, 2010, 05:57 AM
Nice tricky SUL ......  :P  :P  :P


Title: Re: sul
Post by: DWayne on May 11, 2010, 06:10 AM
Nice flying David.  8)

Denny


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Beachbum on May 11, 2010, 07:44 AM
Judging from my experinces with the K2 the SUL would be the one to get.

Too bad I will never need a SUL....


Title: Re: sul
Post by: Daves1980 on May 11, 2010, 11:13 AM
Thanks guys! :)

Here you can find info about this kite: *challengerkites.com*



*Direct link removed*


Title: Re: sul
Post by: cids on May 11, 2010, 08:45 PM
This is a mouthwatering kite.  :P :D ;)

Thanks for the video.  :-*