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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: King-J on May 07, 2010, 05:56 AM



Title: Vented?
Post by: King-J on May 07, 2010, 05:56 AM
Been Looking at eventually adding a vented Duel line to the bag, not a big fan of flying in wind over 10 - 12, but for those high wind days I would like to have at least one in the bag, I have only had the opportunity to fly a Vented Talon.
Looking for your opinions on what you feel maybe the top 4 vented kites available today.

Thank You
John


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DWayne on May 07, 2010, 06:04 AM
I haven't got to fly one yet but it looks like a capable kite.  ;)

cosmic TC (VTD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exi72Dp9sy0#lq-lq2-hq)

Denny


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: thief on May 07, 2010, 06:22 AM
do you have gusty heavy winds?
do you want to just fly and not do as many tricks?
what sort of flying do you enjoy?????


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: inewham on May 07, 2010, 06:45 AM
As ever it depends what you're looking for
lots of people want a kite with no pull that will trick just like a kite in 10mph but you generally get to choose between

1, A comp vent: wide window, solid tracking, slow and controlled but still pulls hard, copes with big winds

2, A tricky vent: smaller window, stalls out on turns, light pull, feels gutless when you pop

3, a blend of the above but the wind range isn't as high as you expected

I like the MantisV2, the adjustability means you can keep it feeling nice in a wide wind range, it will handle big winds in conjunction with wind brakes & heavy lines, it still pulls in silly winds and you will work for your tricks but I find I have to make fewer trade-offs.
However its probably in 'type' 1


Have you considered a Fearless UL ? :-*


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DaveH on May 07, 2010, 07:58 AM
I got to fly the Mantis V2 awhile back and I agree, it was really nice. 
I own a QP VV.  Flying vented kites is, as stated above, a trade off.  My QP works about as good as can be expected.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: Gardner on May 07, 2010, 08:44 AM
When you start taking capable vented kites, you are talking more dollars.  Among the selections are kites by Blue Moon, JoE, Prism, l'Atilier (sp), R-sky, Lam Hoac and other top competition kite makers.  All of them are good kites.  I can vouch for Blue Moon, Prism, l'Atilier(sp) and Lam Hoac's mid-vent Sea Devil.

In the Blue Moon (Ken McNeill)  stable are Mamba, Mantis and Exile while Prism has the Q-Pro series.

Ocassionally some of these kites show up on the used markets at good prices.

Gardner


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: adx1592 on May 07, 2010, 08:57 AM
I'd go with the mamba vent. Sollllid as a rock.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DWayne on May 07, 2010, 09:20 AM

In the Blue Moon (Ken McNeill)  stable are Mamba, Mantis and Exile

Gardner

A vented Exile? Really?

Denny


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: JimB on May 07, 2010, 09:47 AM
He was considering doing one.

Haven't heard anything lately.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: biglos on May 07, 2010, 09:50 AM
Ken Made a few vented exiles for testing but it looks like he either wasn't satisfied because I don't think he offered them for sale. There was a thread on this and I was really hoping for one. I'm kinda looking for a vented next too.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DaveH on May 07, 2010, 10:25 AM
I was watching that thread, too. Having enjoyed the Exile std so much I figured a vented version would be a great addition.  If he ever got one to fly like he wants and released it I'm sure many folks would buy one.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: zippy8 on May 07, 2010, 10:31 AM
Have you considered a Fearless UL ? :-*

Now now (http://www.elisanet.fi/mike.emery/Smilies/No%20no%20no.gif) We'll have none no more of that sort of thing.

 ;)

Having tried a few things recently I'd be tempted to got for a Standard kite, reframed more robustly and a selection of on-the-kite airbrakes to cover my needs up to winds that I don't really want to be outside in.

Mike.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: inewham on May 07, 2010, 10:44 AM
I'd be tempted to got for a Standard kite, reframed more robustly and a selection of on-the-kite airbrakes to cover my needs up to winds that I don't really want to be outside in.

Good point actually, one of the very best high wind kites I've flown is a Fury .85 with stuffed spars, a back brace and wah-pads.

Not an easy fly by any means but coped with some obscene winds, still tricked and didn't pull my arms off. I still kick myself for selling it.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: tpatter on May 07, 2010, 11:57 AM
If you want to do tricks, get Lams standard Fearless vent - the man really knows how to make a vent.

I've tried many others - they were mostly ok, but certainly not kites that I looked forward to flying.  The FV  is one sweet ride.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: Kantaxel on May 07, 2010, 12:22 PM
Have you considered a Fearless UL ? :-*


Now now  We'll have none no more of that sort of thing.

He meant the Fearless LV ;)   8)


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: biglos on May 07, 2010, 12:26 PM
What wind could you say is enjoyable with the different vented kites? I stop enjoying my regular kites as the wind picks up and you have to start moving rather quickly to do any slack line tricks. Would a vented let you do the same tricks in higher wind?

I'm asking because its either been really windy/gusty or no wind at all lately in my area.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: tpatter on May 07, 2010, 12:44 PM
What wind could you say is enjoyable with the different vented kites? I stop enjoying my regular kites as the wind picks up and you have to start moving rather quickly to do any slack line tricks. Would a vented let you do the same tricks in higher wind?

I'm asking because its either been really windy/gusty or no wind at all lately in my area.

I'm not mentioning specific wind ranges - you can check the manufacturers sites for that (for what they are worth).

The thing with flying in high wind is that you definitely need to be using long lines - the longer, the better.  It gives you more time to react and due to the larger window, seems to slow the kite down in a sense. 

Trying to fly a kite in 20mph of wind with 65' lines is going to be MUCH harder than the same kite on 120' lines.  It seems obvious, but I see folks folks flying with short lines in high winds all the time.




Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: biglos on May 07, 2010, 01:01 PM
how about line sets? what weight lines?


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: obijuankenobe on May 07, 2010, 01:18 PM
I am also tempted to throw my hat in the 'heavy standard' ring.  I have had a number of vented kites that did surprising little to make flying in the gusty stuff more fun, and all those are gone.  I have a couple self modded heavies, and they still get air time. 

Believe it or not, I too think Lam makes a great vented kite.  The reason I think his kites work is because his vents are TINY.  A full vent SD has 8 or 10 vents (depending on your model), and they are all VERY SMALL.  They might be 5% of the total sail area, and certainly no more than 10%. 

For whatever physical reason, this works.  This is also why he can make a Fearless light vented:  The vents aren't doing much most of the time (although you will pay a premium for them and they look great).  Referring back to the main point, I think it also has alot to do with the fact that this essentially makes his vented kites more akin to heavy standards (heavier spreaders, more tail weight).  (If any of you Fearless and SD owners doubt me, take some tape and cover your vents and see what happens.  Put the tape on the inside of the sail.) 

Christiaan Derefat also makes his vented kites with relatively small vents.  The best one of his I have flown was a Neutron with maybe 50 coin sized holes.  That kite ruled.

The bigger vents often lead to all sorts of serious performance changes (which are usually undesirable).  An example from my experience would be the XTS variable vented.  Not only is this kite HEAVILY built (8P spreaders, etc.), but fully open I'd guess you lose 40% of the sail area.  This kite hates to fade, and just falls nose down right back out.  Another would be the SD vented.  I grew to like my standard with the 7PT spreaders taken from the vented combined with my air brakes better than I did the SD vented.

I would guess that the better you get, the more likely you are to have LESS vented kites...maybe zero.  I have had as many as three, a total of 5, and own none now.  I think as you progress as a flier, you'll learn how to keep to the corners, or how to pick your flying days better to avoid the obnoxious winds.

obi


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: cids on May 07, 2010, 01:50 PM
Quote
how about line sets? what weight lines?

Even though I have different sets of line, I always use the 55Kg/100ft line set from low wind to high wind.   ::)  My 50lb/80ft set is brand new, 150lb/110ft used once or twice only. I guess I'm too lazy to change flying line.  ???


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: tpatter on May 07, 2010, 02:13 PM
Quote
how about line sets? what weight lines?

Even though I have different sets of line, I always use the 55Kg/100ft line set from low wind to high wind.   ::)  My 50lb/80ft set is brand new, 150lb/110ft used once or twice only. I guess I'm too lazy to change flying line.  ???

Call me crazy, but use 90# up to mid 20s at various lengths - I like to hear LPG lines sing!  :) 


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DaveH on May 07, 2010, 02:33 PM
I have a 300 lb 120 ft set I really like to use in high winds.  That high of a pound test rating is of course not needed but its my only 120 ft set.  Interestingly its on Sky Claws because I've had the set since 1992.  The Sky Claws work fine because I enjoy flying rather than tricking in strong winds.

For tricking with my vented QP I use 150 lb 85 ft, but then I give up trying to trick in anything over 15.  This is why the VV almost never sees airtime.  the QP std tricks way better and is fine up to 15.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: cids on May 07, 2010, 03:09 PM
Quote
I like to hear LPG lines sing!   

I bet I can use the LPG in a violin as strings or replacing the horse's tail hair in the bow. I think it will make wonderful music.  :D :D :D


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: KaoS on May 07, 2010, 06:25 PM
In no particular order...

If you want light pull and good trick capability similar to the standard version, I'd recommend the vented Soul.  It is the only vented kite I have bought and NOT sold soon after.

I haven't flown the vented Talon, but I've only heard good reports about it.

If the winds get ballistic, you can always come over to the dark side and fly a vented Rev 1.5.

Can't think of a number 4


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: xuzme720 on May 07, 2010, 06:38 PM
In no particular order...

If you want light pull and good trick capability similar to the standard version, I'd recommend the vented Soul.  It is the only vented kite I have bought and NOT sold soon after.

I haven't flown the vented Talon, but I've only heard good reports about it.

If the winds get ballistic, you can always come over to the dark side and fly a vented Rev 1.5.

Can't think of a number 4
I've heard the Prism roll-up bag can be flown on 4 lines in heavy winds...


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: RobB on May 07, 2010, 07:20 PM
What Obi said about the smaller vents makes sense to me. I have 4 vented kites, a QPro VV (good & tough), a Mantis V2 (currently out on loan, I never clicked with it), a Nebula vented (awesome kite for 7-15mph), and the FVL (I'm quickly learning to love this one, really flies in 3-20mph with ease). The Nebula vented has probably 100 3/8" holes in it, and you can't tell that you're even flying a vented kite, flies just like a standard, except less pull and higher range. It was rated up to 25mph, but it gets too fast for me above 15mph. Bang for the buck, I don't think you can beat the Nebula vent.
~Rob.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3829175391_8dfffd877f_b.jpg)






Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: xuzme720 on May 07, 2010, 08:12 PM
What Obi said about the smaller vents makes sense to me. I have 4 vented kites, a QPro VV (good & tough), a Mantis V2 (currently out on loan, I never clicked with it), a Nebula vented (awesome kite for 7-15mph), and the FVL (I'm quickly learning to love this one, really flies in 3-20mph with ease). The Nebula vented has probably 100 3/8" holes in it, and you can't tell that you're even flying a vented kite, flies just like a standard, except less pull and higher range. It was rated up to 25mph, but it gets too fast for me above 15mph. Bang for the buck, I don't think you can beat the Nebula vent.
~Rob.
([url]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2592/3829175391_8dfffd877f_b.jpg[/url])


I would love to find some of the prismatic material! Nothing looks quite like the Nebula's...




Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DaveH on May 07, 2010, 08:28 PM
sheesh!  How did Reg cut all those tiny holes?  :D


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: inewham on May 08, 2010, 01:13 AM
how about line sets? what weight lines?

It depends on the kite - heavy lines work on kites with a firm pull but not on lighter pulling kites.

So for a comp style vent which still pulls but you're concentrating on controlling speed, 300lb lines add some drag to slow things down. My 300's are very fat so a better quality 500 would probably be the same.

For a trick oriented light pulling vent 150lb max probably.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: RobB on May 08, 2010, 04:32 AM
sheesh!  How did Reg cut all those tiny holes?  :D
This Nebula was made by Erv Crosby, before Reggie took over Four Winds. My best guess is that he used some sort of a punch to cut them.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: Bob D on May 08, 2010, 05:12 AM
I remember reading a posting about how much some fliers liked the vented Talon. They liked it as much as some like the Fearless.

I have a L'Atelier variable vent and a Nirvana HW. When it's blowing too hard it's not even worth it because it' so hard to get a stall. It DOES help when it's a bit stronger than a standard can comfortably handle. Otherwise, I fly a vented quad.


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: King-J on May 08, 2010, 07:15 PM
Hey Thanks a whole bunch on all the comments, I do love the low wind slack line tricks, but need to add a trick-able Vented to the bag for those high wind days, the Talon isn't bad, but would like to get the best trick-able Vented for the bag for those blustery days, I prefer a light pulling kite, not a heavy pull.
Thanks again
John


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: xuzme720 on May 08, 2010, 10:54 PM
Do you have a vented Talon?


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DWayne on May 09, 2010, 05:29 AM
Do you have a vented Talon?


He's been flying mine.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: King-J on May 09, 2010, 06:19 AM
Do you have a vented Talon?


He's been flying mine.  ;)

Denny

I've been fortunate to have been able to fly Denny's on a few occasions, "Thanks Denny", its not bad in Hi winds,
Denny I'm looking forward to trying your next Vented ;)


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: Gardner on May 09, 2010, 11:29 AM
A Mantis VV on 120-foot by 200-pound test lines is capable of stalls, turtles and axels in 20-30 mph winds with the inner vents removed.The pull is fairly light at 20 mph -- about the same as a standard in 10 mph.   At those wind speeds -- I flew in them Saturday -- the kite tracks very well and with very little tip shudder even though the lower spreaders are Sky Shark 5pt black diamonds.  I'd like to get some 7pt BD even though the fives apparently are more than adequate.

This was the first time I've flown that MantisVV is winds like that and was impressed. ;)

Gardner


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: ezme6 on May 09, 2010, 04:45 PM
are you folks flying in measureable 20-30mph winds or just...it feels like?
To me winds in that range are a little hard to stand up in.... and the "sugar" sand beaches I go to would sand blast you to death... 8)

I prefer my 10 vent Sea Devil with both brakes and screens, when it is screaming like that...inland


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: DD on May 09, 2010, 05:08 PM
are you folks flying in measureable 20-30mph winds or just...it feels like?
To me winds in that range are a little hard to stand up in.... and the "sugar" sand beaches I go to would sand blast you to death... 8)

I prefer my 10 vent Sea Devil with both brakes and screens, when it is screaming like that...inland
+1
sustained 20 mph on the beach is a sand blast.

That kind of wind; old style micron on 90# 100' lines. The 'tricks' become all about reaction time. 8)


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: Lee S on May 09, 2010, 08:53 PM
The L'Atelier XTS V.V. is a quite nice vented trickster, although it's very big and very heavy for my personal tastes. I've borrowed one a time or two. Interestingly, I owned an XTR V.V., and didn't like it nearly as much as the bigger kite, even in identical wind conditions. Might have been an individual kite tuning thing, too, though.

When the wind starts picking up now, I can be found flying a Rev 2 vent, which doesn't pull at all., mostly because I'm lazy. :o


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: Gardner on May 10, 2010, 10:30 AM
ezme,

I was at a kite festival in Clovis, N.M. last weekend and had no choice >:(.  Sometimes you take what you get :(.  I prefer winds in the 7-12 mph range.

Gardner


Title: Re: Vented?
Post by: indigo_wolf on May 10, 2010, 12:44 PM

He meant the Fearless LV ;)   8)


(http://www.cultofmac.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/DoubleFacePalm.jpg)

ATB,
Sam