GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Single Line Kites => Topic started by: bmfinc on May 19, 2010, 01:21 PM



Title: Are you high?
Post by: bmfinc on May 19, 2010, 01:21 PM
What is the typical height a kite can fly to before it is out of sight?

What are some of the setups that are good for high kite flying?  Kites, line, winders?


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: Allen Carter on May 19, 2010, 01:38 PM
What is the typical height a kite can fly to before it is out of sight?


Depends on the size of the kite.

Here's some good high altitude info:

http://tkf.toronto.on.ca/oldsite/richard.htm (http://tkf.toronto.on.ca/oldsite/richard.htm)

One of the great altitude flyers was Stormy Weathers (his real name). I met him during a world record attempt at WSKIF in '99. A real character. His winch was made from automobile wheels.

http://www.drachen.org/archive_weathers.html (http://www.drachen.org/archive_weathers.html)


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: bmfinc on May 19, 2010, 01:42 PM
Wow!  14,509 Ft.?  That is awesome!  Neat article.  Thanks


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: kiten00b on May 19, 2010, 03:20 PM
all kites flown out of sight look the same to me


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: xuzme720 on May 19, 2010, 04:57 PM
all kites flown out of sight look the same to me
to be honest, they look the same just before they go OOS, too :D


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: thief on May 19, 2010, 05:58 PM
Another site to read:
http://www.kitesite.com.au/kiterecord/Location.html (http://www.kitesite.com.au/kiterecord/Location.html)


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: mikenchico on May 19, 2010, 08:18 PM
We've done this before but for anybody who missed it or is new, before considering altitude flying you need to familiarize yourself with the regulations. They are a bit confusing, first stating in section S101.1-(2) that the regulations apply only to kites "Over 5 lbs" But then section S101.7-(a) seems to negate that weight definition by simply stating.

No person may operate any moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

So acceptable altitudes pretty much boils down to
 
  • You may not fly a kite without restrictions more then 150 feet above the surface.
  • You may fly a kite up to 250 feet above the surface without written notice  if you are flying within 500 feet of an obscuring structure taller then 250 feet.
  • You may fly a kite up to 500 feet above the surface by providing the FAA with written notification 24 hours before the flight.
   
Above 500 feet requires a certificate of waiver issued by the Administrator who will also most likely direct you to an area free of any flight paths for such attempts.

I've uploaded a pdf of the FAA Regulations for Kites, Balloons & Rockets here (http://www.sysmatrix.net/~mikenchico/FAA_Kite_Regulations.pdf)

Here's a picture of an airplane that ran into a kite line, larger line then most of us use though, and thankfully the airplane landed safely.



[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: JimB on May 19, 2010, 08:44 PM
Thanks for the file Mike.

It's good to familiarize, or re-familiarize, oneself with the regs periodically.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to carry a copy in the bag either.

;)


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: coogee on May 20, 2010, 01:50 AM
I recently went to Cobar, which is a small town in western New South Wales in Australia and flew with a team of people attempting to break the altitude record for a single line kite. We got to 10,680 ft. Depending on conditions the kite is very hard to see after 3 to 4 thousand ft. The link from thief will get you to the site for this record attempt. From personal experience I would have to say it was exciting to launch, fly and retrieve the kite. The team is lead by Robert Moore. We plan to try again. Records are after all made to be broken.

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: mikenchico on May 20, 2010, 06:37 AM
I was surprised re-reading those reg's, I thought we were OK to 300 feet, seeing 150 feet means we routinely get some of our kites up to a questionable altitude, of course we don't fly anything approaching the 5 lb mark.



Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: thief on May 20, 2010, 06:51 AM
I was surprised re-reading those reg's, I thought we were OK to 300 feet, seeing 150 feet means we routinely get some of our kites up to a questionable altitude, of course we don't fly anything approaching the 5 lb mark.
i think that some of the Aerodrone sport kites might be pushing that 5# ;)


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: RobB on May 20, 2010, 07:29 AM
That's an eye-opener... I've flown at up to 400' when I was doing KAP. I had no idea that I was out of bounds.

I wonder if flyying at festivals has some sort of exclusion... I notice alot of kites over 200' at the festivals that I've attended.

~Rob.


Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: mikenchico on May 20, 2010, 08:43 AM
Some interpretations of those Reg's assume they apply only within 5 miles of an airport. Even the FAA's response to an inquiry seems to interpret it as within 5 miles of an airport. I found this today.

Can kites be flown near the airport (i.e. in Centennial Park)? 

FAA Response: 14 CFR Part 101 (enclosed) states that “…within 5 miles of the boundary of any airport…No person may operate an unshielded moored balloon or kite more than 150 feet above the surface of the earth unless, at least 24 hours before beginning the operation, he gives the following information to the FAA ATC facility that is nearest to the place of intended operation: (a) the names and addresses of the owners and operators, (b) the size of the balloon or the size and weight of the kite, (c) the location of the operation, (d) the height above the surface of the earth at which the balloon or kite is to be operated, and (e) the date, time and duration of the operation.”  There are also additional lighting and marking requirements, if the balloon or kite would be operated above 150 feet above the surface of the earth.

Part 101 also states “(a) no person may operate any moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons or their property, and (b) no person operating any moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon may allow an object to be dropped there from, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.”


It's too much legal psycho-babble for me, anybody here understand it and can put it in English with pictures and arrows for us challenged ones?



Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: mikenchico on May 20, 2010, 08:57 AM
Anyway back on subject, You will need a soaring type kite like a delta, delta conyne, genki etc. Other types quickly reach the point that they are simply dragging line out with no gain in altitude. Winders depend on how much line your planning on and how hard you want to work, the Windbreaker reel from Shanti will hold a few thousand feet of 100 lb Dacron and retrieves it pretty fast. For line Spectra is the best bet at a somewhat affordable price, you need to balance the kites lift against the weight and drag of the line or again you'll quickly end up simply playing out line with no gain of altitude.



Title: Re: Are you high?
Post by: quintum on September 07, 2010, 06:18 AM

  My dad used to take me out flying, and then all there was was twine, I believe, and he bought the biggest roll available.  I could swear it must have been 1000' because the kite would go completely out of sight.  The time it snapped the line it must have been in the next county.  I thought that was the greatest thing ever.