GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: ozkite_pilot on March 24, 2009, 09:33 PM



Title: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 24, 2009, 09:33 PM
hi guys,
i am back.
its glen here from australia.
i have a benson gemini and a prism e2.
now i live 30 km inland from any sea or water,no good.
the stupid winds here when rarely we get them are unruley,and not much wind at all.
up and down and dead altogeather !!
its very frastrating.
can never keep my two kites in the sky ,know matter how i adjust bridle and stand offs.
i mean i know how to fly,no problem there,just miserable and no winds thats all  !!
im going to buy another kite soon.
most likely another prism,may be new e3 or quatum pro.
but do i need to buy some sort of sul type of kite to give some sort of flying chance in these crap dumb winds i get ??
any idea or may be another type of awsome free style lite kite may be??
hope to hear your thoughts and comments fellas
thanks heaps
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 24, 2009, 11:49 PM
g,day mate,
thanks for your reply.
no hills mate.
yeah the wind just isnt constant either,just drops away at times all of a sudden.
not sure  much about temp gradients.
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: chilese on March 25, 2009, 12:32 AM
For the price, the Shadow is an excellent very low wind kite for both flying and tricking. It does have a fair amount of oversteer and the bridle needs some adjustment, but if you can already fly those other kites, the oversteer should be no problem. Just my opinion, good luck.

There may even be one left in the GWTW store, not sure. I believe the only new ones left have a solid color center design. Here is a mock up of a Shadow done in purple.
(http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/4255/2745965120049870108S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2745965120049870108oOhZXZ)


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 25, 2009, 01:52 AM
g,day mate
how are ya
thanks for the pic and kite info
i will keep it in mind.
any other ideas guys??
thanks
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: streamhawk on March 25, 2009, 07:02 AM
I would suggest to you a Blue Moon Exile, flies powered up in low winds, excellent build quality, and you get to pick your colors. If your winds flucuate alot, get the standard, if the winds lean toward low to none, go with the UL, don't think you'd be sorry for the purchase, really nice kite.

Bill


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: pfouts on March 25, 2009, 07:09 AM
Ditto on the exile.  The kite's sail design has an excellent ability to fly in both low and high winds. 


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: lylenc on March 25, 2009, 07:31 AM
Light and variable winds, with frequent changes of direction and drops to zero, are common condition here in summer. The UL or SUL versions will add many hours of flying time and lower the frustration level.

Floaty kites can buy you time until the next puff of wind comes along, without a lot of work keeping them in the air. Floaty tends to be less new school tricky, so there are trade-offs. Kites that are stable in a side slide at the edge of the window take less work to keep pumping until you get the kite oriented to the new wind direction or the next puff comes along.

My favorite UL/SULs are out of production, Aerostar. I'm looking at a Muse or Exile for my next kite, currently leaning towards an Exile UL. May have an interest in a Vendetta SUL when it makes it off the drawing board and into the air.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: DD on March 25, 2009, 08:16 AM
my 2 cents:
If you can find any stx 1.8, they are a good tricky ul
the shadow is a good kite for the money, probably the kite i would point to first
if you can find any aerostars, mainly a Sano SSL or a SSZ, they are great low wind stunters but wont be cheap and Paul has stopped producing them but he will put some up now and again on ebay
I wouldnt recommend the prism 3d because it is so small and takes a very light touch and was never much of a trick kite in my hands.
maybe an ozone, although not a superb ul but might be found easy
you might also try a jack in the box ul, you see them around from time to time, its good in low wind
i would stay away from the zephyr, its more a light standard then an ul
an exile ul might also be a direction to go, I have not flown one so i cant compare them to anything else but the muse i have has excellant build quality

All that being said what line are you using? You may find switching to a shorter lighter line may help get more out of your kites. I would say get a 50# 50' set for super light wind days


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: Dolphinboy on March 25, 2009, 09:41 AM
I have super light and variable winds too. When the wind is less than 2-2.5 mph, I fly a Fearless SUL or a STX 1.8.

Some other tricky SULs I've tried or owned that'll fly in very light inland winds:
Sea Devil SUL
Shadow
Cesium Continental

If the wind gets over 2 / 2.5 mph I like:
Nirvana UL
Mohawk XS UL
Widow Maker UL

There are many others but these are some I have experience with that do well in light bumpy winds. You also need to decide what you want to spend. There's a large spread in the price range. I also like the Acrobatx UL but only when the wind is smooth.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: tpatter on March 25, 2009, 12:11 PM
Go for the Exile.  I have similar conditions to yours a good part of the year and I can most always fly that one.  The Shadow will go lower, but it is not nearly as well mannered.

For a long time, it was the only kite I was flying - for both low and mid-level winds.  For sure, the Exile will fly much lower than the kites you have now (as well as the QPro and likely the E3).

There is a nice one on the swap right now.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: portley777 on March 25, 2009, 01:28 PM
   Yes the Exile is the best pick for inland Melbourne winds no question. There are other sexy ones but maybe more frustrating to fly in unsmooth conditions. Exchange rate does suck ATM but check out the swap meet or add a wanted post.

Cheers,
Mike


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: RobB on March 25, 2009, 03:57 PM
Hey OZKP...

I have to agree with the Shadow and the Exile. The Exile is easier to fly, but needs a little more wind. The Shadow will fly in next to nothing, just about as low as a Prism Ozone.
If you have to have a Prism, don't overlook the Zephyr. I can fly mine in really low wind, and it also flies well up to 15mph wind. I really like it, even though it looks like a tattered rag after alot of flying hours. The QPros seem to hold up longer, but are more demanding to fly.

~Rob.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: Kantaxel on March 25, 2009, 04:58 PM
Shadow or...............VAPOR, although the Vap is old school totally....

Jim


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 25, 2009, 11:05 PM
hi guys,
thanks heaps for all your replies.
much appreciated fellas.
i will look into this shadow and exile for sure.
so whats the quality of the frame and sail like ??
cause im after quality for sure as well as perf/manners
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: tpatter on March 25, 2009, 11:20 PM
Exile quality is top notch.  Shadow, not so much - its well enough made , but nothing jumps out at you.  Its light weight material and it will  readily wear with lots of use.

I was the 3rd owner (as far as I know, could have been more) of an Exile that I flew in all sorts of conditions.  That kite still looked in far better shape than several of my new kites that had only been flown less than 6 months (Zephyr, SF).

BMK kites are very well designed and built and they just last.  I think you would have a hard time finding a better made kite.



Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 25, 2009, 11:35 PM
ok mate,
cheers,i will take a look.
thanks
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: chilese on March 26, 2009, 12:30 AM
Quality?

Get the Exile, or any kite made by Ken McNeill (Blue Moon Kites).

He has personally made over 5000 kites. I have many of them. Heck, even my avatar is holding a BMK.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: Bob D on March 26, 2009, 04:32 AM
The Exile!
Ditto to what everyone says about the build quality. Ken makes a great kite!

I was flying my Exile standard when the guy next to me was having a hard time flying his Sea Devil UL.

The Exile standard will go low but it sounds like you need it to go a bit lower. I don't have experience with Exile UL but it sounds like that would be the best way to go.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: lylenc on March 26, 2009, 07:43 AM
Light and variable wind with frequent trips to 0 wind really sucks. If the wind cycles last 20 minutes, that's not too bad and a standard Exile may be good enough, but flying down to 2 mph with a standard, in an accomplished flyers hands, isn't good enough to be fun form many flyers.

If your winds are like here, you'll be on the ground 50% - 75% of the time with a standard. You'll be working your tush off a good deal of the time while the kite is in the air.

If the wind cycles last 5 minutes and range 0-3 mph, that really really really sucks on a standard kite. The only thing worse is days it short cycles 0-12 mph, since no one kite handles the entire range well.

An Exile UL compared to a standard one will add more flying time on days you have short wind cycles and an low wind range. If it's hot and 1 mph one doesn't want to be working too hard to keep a kite in the air. A UL takes work at 1 mph, but a lot less than a standard, and with a lot more quality time while in the air.

Having not flown either Exile or Exile UL, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt. However, I do know light and variable winds with frequent trips to 0 mph. A UL/SUL will put a bigger  ;D on your face, no matter who makes it. If you don't have a UL/SUL in your bag now, you'll be doing yourself a disservice (sp or is it even a word?) buying another standard kite.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: streamhawk on March 26, 2009, 11:57 AM
Oz, there are some side benefits to this kite. I posed the question on the old board, I was looking for a kite that had a good mix of precision and tricking, had a mix of new school and a bit of old school, something that would do flat axels for example. The overwhelming response was the Exile. I've had it since Christmas and really like it alot. The low wind capabilities are just a bonus for me. You're looking for a low wind kite, so all the other stuff would be a bonus for you. The Shadow is a nice kite, but as has been stated, it has alot of oversteer, at least in my hands, which can be overcome as has been also stated. The build quality of the Exile is Benson like, it's a really nice all round kite.

Bill


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 26, 2009, 12:26 PM
hey guys
all great.
thanks for your help and comments
so a bmk exile it will be !!
any idea where to buy one from if you are allowed to say that is ??
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: Steve Hall on March 26, 2009, 12:35 PM
Top of every page there is a link to Ken's site.  Blue Moon's are sold direct.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 26, 2009, 12:47 PM
ok thanks
cheers ;)


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: DaveH on March 26, 2009, 03:19 PM
Glen,
I have an Exile STD and let me assure you, you will not find a better built kite anywhere. I can't remember what mine is framed in, I'd have to look.  I think Nitro LE and Black Diamond LS.  Does that sound right?

Anyway, great looking, great flying kite with a world of attention to detail.  Just look at the thoughtful way the pocket is sewn for the removable tail piece to facilitate adding and removing weights.  Ken didn't have to do that.  It delights me, however, everytime I look at mine that he did.  Here's a picture of mine with some summer flowers.

Now get one.

Dave

attachments older than 120 days removed to save space


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 28, 2009, 12:01 AM
hi guys
how are ya
well thanks kindly for your thoughts and help r.e which kite i need
im going to order soon the bmk exile kite
thanks
glen
Australia   :)


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: asburyparkjohn on March 28, 2009, 08:19 PM
When the winds are low I fly these three kites in progression as the wind builds up from 0.5 mph to 5-6 mph:

1- Benson Inner Space
2- Sea Devil SUL
3- Q-Pro SUL

I have the Exile UL in my bag but 1-3 will guarantee air time - EVERY TIME. The Sea Devil SUL grabs more air than the Q-Pro SUL but for wahtever reason it can do JL's easier. I still have not explored the Exile UL enough. Its worth the money and cheaper than the SD-SUL. I like the Zephyr but I agree with that description - its a light Standard or a full UL - not a SUL.

 8)


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 29, 2009, 12:22 AM
g,day mate
thanks for your reply.
i tell ya the winds are really crap here where i live inland 30 km from any water/sea,up and down here.
wind direction changes from east thru to west while i was flying this afternoon
its crazy,really sh#its me i tell ya.
so i really hope my new kite i get which you guys have suggested stays in the air with good speed.
iv made all bridle changes,wind settings on stand offs,still crap,even removed top spreader.
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: zippy8 on March 29, 2009, 01:43 AM
If the wind is sufficiently bad then no kite, no matter how good, no matter how close to being The MessiahKite™ is going to solve the problem. You always need to find good enough wind to feed any kite.

I like to think that I have a little experience with not-suitable-for-kiting winds (http://fracturedaxel.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5247&start=0) and there is a point where what's on the end of the lines becomes irrelevant.

So get an Exile UL (or indeed whatever) but don't expect it to solve the problems caused by 180° wind shifts.

Mike.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: DWayne on March 29, 2009, 07:30 AM
^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^

I am rather surprised that nobody suggested a Jest of Eve Talon or Talon UL. It sounds like we have the same kind of dodgy conditions and the Talon does very well here.

Denny


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: lylenc on March 29, 2009, 08:26 AM
wind direction changes from east thru to west while i was flying this afternoon

That's the variable wind world, especially if it does that repeatedly within a two or three hour outing - windshield wiper days. We've had 270 and 360 degree days, but thankfully they are rare.

Those conditions are when a floaty and non-twitchy UL/SUL is needed. The shorter the cycle time from one direction to the other the more frustrating it gets. You need a kite that will buy you time in the air until you can pump it around to the new wind direction. If you are way out of sync with the direction, leave the kite on the ground and walk in an arc, keeping the lines taught so they don't snag on debris, until the kite is more into the wind.

Keep an eye on trees, flags, smoke, dandelion fluff, or other wind indicators in the area. That will help you anticipate direction changes before they arrive at your location. Fudge towards the side of the window the wind is likely to shift towards.

Try to avoid whirl winds; it's best to set down. It's not a fun thrill to get a SUL caught up inside one. You'll have visions of splintered framing and shredded sail running through your head, while trying to work out of it without damage to the billfold. I've been snared twice and lucked out both times, but it's not a pretty sight to witness - especially with an out-of-production Zerostar.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on March 29, 2009, 10:46 PM
ok,thanks for your help and info mate
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ezme6 on April 03, 2009, 06:55 AM
Try flying on 50#by50ft lines. IMHO using 90#by100ft lines the longer heavier lines cause alot of drag.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on April 03, 2009, 01:58 PM
hi mate
yep always fly with 50 feet lines x 50 LB
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ezme6 on April 03, 2009, 02:05 PM
 ;D


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: Adams on June 25, 2009, 09:53 PM
^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^

I am rather surprised that nobody suggested a Jest of Eve Talon or Talon UL. It sounds like we have the same kind of dodgy conditions and the Talon does very well here.

Denny


 :-\ :-\ :-\ ya right.... nobody suggested a Jest of Eve Talon or Talon UL  :-\ :-\

Glen... did you get your UL already??? check this out mike..
Talon UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ4zfbkS4Mw#lq-hq)

adams


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on July 02, 2009, 01:01 PM
hi guys
iv been looking on blue moon site r.e the exile kite you recomended i get for my sh#it unrulely bumpy winds here in land.
thereis a mira and slice model,whats the difference beyween them ??
also do i get the std,skyshark nitro,ul skyshark 3 pt ??
and r.ecolors i can load pics of colors of them as it is java  which i dont have.
any pics of colors please ??
thanks very much
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: mikenchico on July 02, 2009, 09:27 PM
Do you have a paint program? One you can do color picking and fill with, I'd be happy to get you a screenshot as a jpg or bmp so you can play with colors.

Dif between the Mira & Slice is just the graphics, I have the Mira only because the Slice hadn't been developed yet, I would've gone with the Slice I think, I've found some pleasing color schemes on it & I had a very hard time with the Mira.

Frame choice would be dependant on the winds you'll be flying in and your style. I like my Nitro's and find they will fly into UL winds when the winds are smooth. When the winds are low and swirling the reduced weight of the 3PT's isn't really a help when the kite is blowing towards you and due to my heavy handed flying style I felt the kite lost too much for little gain in wind range. If I had consistanly smooth light winds and a lighter hand the 3PT's might suit me. The P200 frame gives up some stiffness and response with no reduction in weight but some people prefer the reduced stiffness and find the kite a bit smoother with them.



Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ko on July 02, 2009, 10:10 PM
glen this may help roy reed is a very helpful guy and there is more stuff on his sitehttp://www.reeddesign.co.uk/colourizer/exile.html (http://www.reeddesign.co.uk/colourizer/exile.html) the mira is on top and the ul below it i believe is the slice


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ozkite_pilot on July 03, 2009, 01:01 AM
hi guys
thanks for the helful info.
cheers
glen


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: JimB on July 03, 2009, 07:13 AM
Personally, for bumpy winds, I'd get the std frame.


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: Sketch on July 03, 2009, 09:26 AM
Go for the Exile.  I have similar conditions to yours a good part of the year and I can most always fly that one.  The Shadow will go lower, but it is not nearly as well mannered.
For a long time, it was the only kite I was flying - for both low and mid-level winds.  For sure, the Exile will fly much lower than the kites you have now (as well as the QPro and likely the E3).

There is a nice one on the swap right now.

Uhhh? Lets get real  ::) ::)....The EXILE truly is an amazing kite....however don't you think possilbly theSHADOW IS LOTTA FUN AND A MUCH BETTA-BANG for the $$$BUCK????

I am usually wrong....but seems like I remember that the EXILE was at one time TWICE THE PRICE of my HQ Shadow?


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: tpatter on July 03, 2009, 09:54 AM
Uhhh? Lets get real  ::) ::)....The EXILE truly is an amazing kite....however don't you think possilbly theSHADOW IS LOTTA FUN AND A MUCH BETTA-BANG for the $$$BUCK????

I am usually wrong....but seems like I remember that the EXILE was at one time TWICE THE PRICE of my HQ Shadow?


The Shadow is much cheaper, but -

No, the Shadow is a kite that has to grow on you for many flyers - EVERYONE loves the Exile right away, many hate the Shadow right away.

Part of that reason is that the Exile its MUCH better built, flys much smoother, and can easily be controlled and tricked.  To do tricks on the Shadow, you need a lighter touch and more experience.




Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: adx1592 on July 03, 2009, 10:19 AM
for zero winds, though not trickable, id get a prodancer SUL. VERY solid kite.
UL- exile UL or Mamba UL, Muse Lt.
Standard- Exile, Muse, Mamba.
Highwinds- MICRON! lol

seeing a trend here?  :D


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: Sketch on July 03, 2009, 04:33 PM
Uhhh? Lets get real  ::) ::)....The EXILE truly is an amazing kite....however don't you think possilbly theSHADOW IS LOTTA FUN AND A MUCH BETTA-BANG for the $$$BUCK????

I am usually wrong....but seems like I remember that the EXILE was at one time TWICE THE PRICE of my HQ Shadow?


The Shadow is much cheaper, but -

No, the Shadow is a kite that has to grow on you for many flyers - EVERYONE loves the Exile right away, many hate the Shadow right away.

Part of that reason is that the Exile its MUCH better built, flys much smoother, and can easily be controlled and tricked.  To do tricks on the Shadow, you need a lighter touch and more experience.

Again...it appears that you are missing the point....
The EXILE (if you are fortunate enought to afford to spend that kind of money that a beautiful custom EXILE MOONIE' then by all means....anyone with common sense who has been flying sportkites for any length of time would natually choose the EXILE OVER THE SHADOW..
Reading between your lines.....it appears that it is YOU and not MANY others that seem to HATE THE SHADOW? :-*
The truth must be somewhere in between or is it just that
One sportkite flyers trash...certainly appears to be another sportkite flyers trash? ;)


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: ko on July 03, 2009, 06:03 PM
i know for a fact that tom likes his shadow as he recommended i get 1.. i did and i loved it, i only sold it after i spent a whole lotta money to replace it.. that kite and an ozone taught me alot the shadow is truly a kite where you get your moneys worth for a bit more for 0 winds + a little i fly an inner space cannot beat it IMO but it does not trick like the shadow


Title: Re: which kite do i need please ??
Post by: tpatter on July 03, 2009, 07:16 PM
Again...it appears that you are missing the point....
The EXILE (if you are fortunate enought to afford to spend that kind of money that a beautiful custom EXILE MOONIE' then by all means....anyone with common sense who has been flying sportkites for any length of time would natually choose the EXILE OVER THE SHADOW..
Reading between your lines.....it appears that it is YOU and not MANY others that seem to HATE THE SHADOW? :-*

Sold my Exiles - still have my Shadow.  Get what you want, its up to you, but the Shadow is a niche kite, the Exile is more of an all-arounder.