GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: mtk beach flyer on June 08, 2010, 04:09 PM



Title: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: mtk beach flyer on June 08, 2010, 04:09 PM
Hello everyone.

I live in a area that gets winds on average from 0-45mph.  Atm I have a e2 that I enjoy but to be honest I am quiet new too the whole stunt kite scene and thats what I learned on.  As for tricks I am not doing anything to exciting.  Mostly have been working on all the stalls, lazy susans and just been working on my flying.  I am itching to get a second kite.  I was set on a E3 but as I sit here and write the wind is about 2-5 mph but sitting more at the 2 mph.  With that said I am thinking my next kite should  be more of a light wind kite.  My thought was the Zephyr but am up to suggestions.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: adx1592 on June 08, 2010, 04:29 PM
the ProDancer SUL if you have really low winds. That kite seems to fit your guidelines. Not to tricky. Tracks like a madman! Awesome kite.

the new Ocius UL will also be a wonderful choice. It comes out very soon. Skyburner Kites


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: thief on June 08, 2010, 04:32 PM
4d by prism



Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Gamelord on June 08, 2010, 04:37 PM
The Zephyr is a unique kite in that it really isn't designed to go down to the ultra light wind ranges, but the Zephyr is a dream to fly in winds from 5-10mph.  I would classify the Zephyr as a Light Standard kite, not an ultra light.  Others may feel a bit different on this than me but that is my opinion.  For the lighter winds I feel you would do better with a true Ultra Light kite instead of the Zephyr.

For light winds from say 1-6 mph, I would recommend the HQ Shadow or new Prism 4D.  The Shadow would be a little better in those winds and will trick easier but the 4D is a great light wind kite as well and can be flown indoors (or outdoors in zero winds).


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Winged V on June 08, 2010, 05:51 PM
For the winds u mentioned the Widow Maker UL would Amaze you.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: chilese on June 08, 2010, 06:01 PM
At 2 mph wind speed, the Widow Maker UL (which I own and like a lot) will be on the ground unless you are moving your feet.

The Shadow UL (closer to an SUL) is the trickiest very light wind kite I have flown (it does have lots of oversteer, so you have to use small hand motions for turns). It is also reasonably priced. You do have to adjust the bridle as it is set from the factory way too heavy.

The ProDancer SUL will fly in less wind, but will not do tricks: that isn't what it was designed for.

2 mph = 2.93 ft/sec

If you can feel the wind, it is over 2 mph unless you're really sweaty and get that slight cooling sensation on one side of your neck.

Shadow: Clickable Link
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_3waCPW86CRA/TAMh5KukbMI/AAAAAAAAbgA/0de6h8vCaOs/s400/9450%20Shadow%202%20Blue.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2010KitesOnlineAgainMaybe#5477258837828594882)



Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Allen Carter on June 08, 2010, 06:29 PM
I have a e2 that I enjoy ...................... I am itching to get a second kite.  I was set on a E3 but as I sit here and write the wind is about 2-5 mph but sitting more at the 2 mph. 

The E2 & E3 are essentially the same kite. If you really enjoy the E2 and want to get another some day, get an E3.

Learning to fly in low wind is tough. I'd say since you already have a very good kite for wind above 5, go with something very light so you can keep it in the air easier.

Problem is, light kites tend to be fragile, which is a drag when learning. They break when they are on the ground and when the wind picks up and you try to fly "for just a few more minutes" before switching kites.

The 4D is light enough to have some float when the wind dies but still very durable. It's a bargain. For a more experienced flyer I'd recommend a Shadow or a bigger kite, but the 4D is the right place to start out.




Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Winged V on June 08, 2010, 06:52 PM

Standing still ain't going to get it done for all low wind flying.strolling around and knowing what's going on in the window and reacting to a low wind window is what it's  about,I just got back from a couple of hours in inland winds zero to 4 mph and I can tell u without a doubt,the Widow Maker UL is amazing in LW performance.

Our man has been trying to fly the e2 in low winds and any real ul will keep him flying my suggestion is the WM UL.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: rxburner on June 08, 2010, 07:02 PM
Sea Devil UL with an extra 6 grams....
Rx


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: adx1592 on June 08, 2010, 07:04 PM
At 2 mph wind speed, the Widow Maker UL (which I own and like a lot) will be on the ground unless you are moving your feet.

?? I flew Jon T's wm ul and it flew wonderfully at that wind speed. Barely any movement. Some pumping.
What bridal are you using? Maybe PM me so we don't hijack the thread.


I'm still firm on the Ocius UL and the PDSUL. the WM ul is great too.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: chilese on June 08, 2010, 07:28 PM
Maybe:

1 I'm at a higher elevation (2200 ft)
2 You're a better low wind flier.
3 Jon T put some extra love into your UL.

I've flown several WMULs here in Las Vegas, at 2 mph wind, you will be moving your feet a lot. I stand by my previous comments even at sea level.

You're basically saying you could use a WMUL as an indoor kite if you can fly it easily at 2 mph. I am not that good. Just my opinion.  :)


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: tpatter on June 08, 2010, 07:38 PM
If tricks are not high on you list, there are many kites that you can very easily fly in 2mph of wind.

I love the Shadow but I'm not sure that I would recommend it to someone who is still new to flying. 

I'd look at the Exile or Exile UL.  The UL is a smooth steady flyer that will fly with little effort in 1.5-2 mph.  If you can live with flying in 2.75+, I'd go for the standard instead (its just more fun in my opinion).


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Dolphinboy on June 08, 2010, 07:54 PM

If you can feel the wind, it is over 2 mph unless you're really sweaty and get that slight cooling sensation on one side of your neck.


I'll call you on that ;D I can easily feel less than 2mph.

There are many real nice tricky SUL / UL kite that'll work well in your 2-5mph winds.

That being said, what's your budget?

What are looking for in a light wind kite? Flying around or more modern tricks?

If you want more modern tricks, the kite won't just power up and fly around in the real light stuff, You will have to move and / or pump the kite up the window to gain some tricking space. Plus you generally need to move your butt for many tricks regardless of the wind speed. Kites with a higher sail to weight will likely power up in lighter wind but the tricks are more flat spin based.

Peace


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: zippy8 on June 08, 2010, 11:05 PM
I'll call you on that ;D I can easily feel less than 2mph.
At what temperature ?

Far be it for me to cast aspersions on someone's windspeed divining skills but 2mph has generally been considered the least that can be felt by most people. The standard experiment is to stand on a treadmill set to 2mph. What do you feel then ?

Oh and if you're "measuring" this real world 2mph with anything it had better be a hot wire anemometer or better 'cos otherwise....  ::)

This "I can feel ˝mph" is one of the reasons why some UL and SUL kite's low end wind range is so far from reality.

Mike.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: tpatter on June 08, 2010, 11:57 PM
We kite flyers from Kite Hill, Seattle, due to our nearly-constant non-existant winds, have a grand ability to readily sense the dramatic difference between true 0 and 2 mph (or at least we think we do).  :)

One will lightly affect smoke and support flying many kites with reasonable amount of work, the other will not.

Wind speed seems to be something no-one can agree on, whether its 2mph or 20!  :)  My philosophy now is to just hook up the lines and fly the thing with little regard to the winds speed, quality, density, temperature, direction, etc, etc.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Flying High on June 09, 2010, 02:06 AM
I have flown stunt kites now for about 6 years, I have around 25 kites in my collection and well still growing. I think ,any one thinking of light wind flying should look at a Paul Shirley's Aerostar SSL or SSZ. The workmanship is first rate and his kites fly as good as any other high performance kite that I have flown, I never held fade for 5 min until I bought a Sano. Cheers Keith- Australia


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Hadge on June 09, 2010, 02:29 AM
The HQ Shadow is probably the best value for money, fully trickable, (super) Ultralight on the market and would certainly fly in the sort of winds you're talking about.  However, like Tom I'm not sure I'd recommend it for a new flyer as, like most ultralights, it's lightly built.  From what I have seen the 4D might be a more durable ( if not as trickable) option for you until you have a bit more experience.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: mtk beach flyer on June 09, 2010, 04:11 AM
Thanks for all the reply's so far.  Let me answer the few questions I have seen asked so far.
1.  Price:  I would prefer not to spend 300.00 but am willing to if its worth it.
2.  What temp will I fly it.  I will fly all year long so the range is 20f-95f
3.  I am at sea level.

Do you know if the wm ul and the hHQ shadow can be purchased from steve here or do I have to look else where?

Thanks again
Richie


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: RobB on June 09, 2010, 04:12 AM
You've got the same wind I do, pretty much. Over the years, I've accumulated around a dozen light wind kites, some good, some not so good. The Zephyr that you considered is a very versatile kite, can fly real low with the right lines and adjustments, and it will fly comfortably up to 15mph. I carried it in my car all the time for 2 years because of the compact case, wide wind range, and it's just plain fun to fly. The 4D will probably fly lower, but it's a small kite. I have never flown a small kite that I liked, but I've never flown the 4D, so I really can't say... it does seem to have nice specs, other than its size. I have a Shadow, it's a really nice kite for the money, good bang for the buck. The Exile UL was mentioned, that's a nice step up from the Shadow, and will fly really low. If you just want to fly and not do too many tricks, kites like the NikNak or Ozone are great. They'll fly when smoke can barely tell what direction to go.

It comes down to budget, I guess... there are a few choices that are less than $150 that will fly great, but probably leave you looking for more. You could spend $600 and end up being disappointed, too. Of all the light wind kites I've flown, I couldn't say which the best one is, but if I had to choose one kite that keeps me flying when nothing else will, my Prism Ozone will never leave my bag...

~Rob.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: RobB on June 09, 2010, 04:16 AM
I don't see that Steve lists the Shadow on the store's site, but I'm sure that he sold them. You should ask him if that's what you want. I think you have to order the WM direct, just like the Exile UL.
If you want to try before you buy, meet me out in the field someday.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: mtk beach flyer on June 09, 2010, 04:27 AM
Thanks Rob.
I was wondering when you were going to chime in being you know about our ever changing winds here on the east end.  I hope I will be able to head that way on sunday if you are out flying.  I will know a little more by friday.
Thanks again


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Dolphinboy on June 09, 2010, 10:11 AM
I'll call you on that ;D I can easily feel less than 2mph.
At what temperature ?

Far be it for me to cast aspersions on someone's windspeed divining skills but 2mph has generally been considered the least that can be felt by most people. The standard experiment is to stand on a treadmill set to 2mph. What do you feel then ?

Oh and if you're "measuring" this real world 2mph with anything it had better be a hot wire anemometer or better 'cos otherwise....  ::)

This "I can feel ˝mph" is one of the reasons why some UL and SUL kite's low end wind range is so far from reality.

Mike.

You don't need the most accurate type of wind meter to determine if the wind is less than 2mph. If you have a meter that has an accuracy of even + - 50% at 1mph that's .5 to 1.5mph and I doubt they are anywhere near that inaccurate. I don't think most treadmills set to 2mph are any more accurate than a wind meter at that speed, probably less so. I've used meters that show less than 2 and I can feel it.

Determining the direction can be a challenge in super low wind but is easily doable too.

Back to ULs. $ 300 bucks gives you LOTS of choices. The Shadow is a bit squirrely but is a very light wind trickable kite. I feel the HQ Breeze will go lower but is less pitchable but smoother. Cascades, Flic Flacs are there but tough to hit. The Shadow will hit these and hit some Yo-Yo based stuff too.

The Widowmaker UL is kind of like Blue Moons ULs in that they are more of a UL / SUL. I haven't flown it side by side with the Shadow but my sense is that they have a similar low wind capability. In my opinion, the WM UL is way smoother and better behaved. They are very well made too. Jon makes the Freestylist UL too and it's less than 200 bucks.



Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: zippy8 on June 09, 2010, 10:34 AM
You don't need the most accurate type of wind meter to determine if the wind is less than 2mph.
But you really do if you want to measure it properly. That's why they make them. That's why they developed an entirely different methodology to the rotary anemometers that most people, including me, use. And if you're then going to go on and claim that you can feel a wind and that your reasoning that it is below 2mph is a handheld "wind meter" or, goddess forbid, something off your iPhone then you're working with faulty data.

Kite advice:- Buy a Cosmic TC Ghost and move about a bit.

Mike.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Dolphinboy on June 09, 2010, 10:59 AM
you're working with faulty data.

Not faulty data but with a % margin of error. I would never claim I could tell if the wind is 1.3759824 mph or any other exact speed for instance but I just may be able to "feel" it.

It doesn't really matter. Either the kite will work for you in the current conditions or it won't. Some will work with less wind than others. Others can't handle changes in direction / velocity as easily, this is even more important to where I fly because of the variable nature of the wind. 

The best my favorite UL trick kite I've ever flown is the Mohawk XS UL. Now that the Euro is down, it should come in right at your $300 and is available from a forum sponsor too.


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Jared on June 09, 2010, 11:16 AM
Seems to be a lot of hot air about windspeed in this thread.  For contrast, here's a kite recommendation :)

If you're willing to wait for the British Pound to follow the Euro, go for the Talon UL!



Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: tpatter on June 09, 2010, 11:59 AM
Seems to be a lot of hot air about windspeed in this thread.  For contrast, here's a kite recommendation :)

If you're willing to wait for the British Pound to follow the Euro, go for the Talon UL!

Been thinking about that one.  What do you consider the realistic low wind on that one?


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: rncembal on June 09, 2010, 12:19 PM
ahh wind ranges
often listed from highly skilled launch to catastrophic failure
blatant plug--- NTK desire for  no tricks
Rob


Title: Re: what LW kite would u recommend for me
Post by: Jared on June 09, 2010, 12:56 PM
Seems to be a lot of hot air about windspeed in this thread.  For contrast, here's a kite recommendation :)

If you're willing to wait for the British Pound to follow the Euro, go for the Talon UL!

Been thinking about that one.  What do you consider the realistic low wind on that one?

I'll shy away from stating actual numbers, and do it comparative style.

Will fly in winds:
Lower than a Zephyr
Lower than a QPro SUL
About on par with / Slightly higher than a Cosmic TC Ghost
Higher than the Echo.