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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: jeepersjoey on June 12, 2010, 06:11 PM



Title: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: jeepersjoey on June 12, 2010, 06:11 PM
I am having trouble with my NEXUS kite.

A little about me: I have about 6 months of solid kite flying.  I have been doing nothing but control flying the last 6 months.  I decided early on that I would follow the advice of most and learn control before moving on to the stunts.  So…I have been learning control for the last 6 months.

I own mostly PRISM kites (4D, Hypnotist, Quantum, Nexus, Zephyr, Quantum Pro SUL, and a few others that you would recognize).

At a local kite festival, I was asked to teach people how to fly stunt kites.

So...with all that said…I would say that I can fly a kite.

Nexus:  I bought this thing at REI for $49.  I bought it because I heard so many people said it was a blast and a good fall back to kite.

I tried 4 separate times to get the Nexus airborne.  Each time I adjusted the bridle and thought the wind was sufficient to do it.  All 4 times I had to nearly run backward to keep it off the ground.

So…I thought it was the Piano and not the player and returned it to REI saying that there was something wrong with the kite.  I got a replacement.  Oops…it is the player????

So…today I went out in the high wind and rain with the specific  goal of getting it off the ground.

The wind today was probably 10 mph…The 4D was ripping back and forth, the Zephyr was strongly flying
back and forth, and the wind was making noises in my ears.

I tried 60 ft, 50 ft, 30ft and finally 18ft lines.  Same results.

I tried the bridle at the normal, HIGH WIND setting and at the LOW WIND setting.  Same results.

Then I put the knot in the bridle PAST the low wind setting and moved it about ˝ inch on the top side of the LOW WIND setting.

It finally staying in the air long enough to fly back and forth for 20 seconds.

What the heck…is this right?  I need to move the ABOVE the highest knot ˝” to make it fly?  How in the  the world does the casual user use this kite?


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: WinterDaze on June 12, 2010, 07:05 PM
JJ,

I think it's time to get the tape measure and camera out, measure all the bridle legs and post the details here, I'm sure someone can compare it to theirs.

I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this issue, even if it just end up being you  ;)

WD


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: jeepersjoey on June 13, 2010, 07:19 AM
My Definition: "top edge of bridle" is to where the bridle is attached to the upper spreader
My Definition: "left edge of bridle" is where the bridlge is attached to left side of lower spreader

From the top edge of bridle it is 15" to the first knot.
From the top edge of bridle it is 16.75" to the second knot
From the top edge of bridle it is 14.5" to where the bridle clip is attached

From the left edge of bridle it is 15" to the bottom knot

To restate what I said in my original post:
My understanding is that the bridle clip string is supposed to be between the top and bottom knot.  I could not get it to stay in the sky with the bridle clip connection between the two knots.  Instead, I had to move it 1/2" above the top knot as you can see in the measurements.

Do I need better or clearer pics?

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: MB on June 13, 2010, 07:51 AM
It might help to have a photo of full bridle with the lines attached to the bridle.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: jeepersjoey on June 13, 2010, 08:04 AM
How about these?

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: jeepersjoey on July 17, 2010, 07:08 PM
I have an update on (trying) to fly the Nexus.

Today the winds were enough that I had to hold onto my hat and then eventually put the chin strap on it.  Additionally, a few walmart bags were seen bouncing across the field!

I dedicated 1 hour to try to keep the Nexus in the air.  I was using 150# x 85 ft length.

I tried adjusting the bridle from 1" below the lowest knot to 1" above the highest knot.  I would launch and then fly for 20 seconds to get a feel for what the kite did.  It basicly struggled to stay in the air the entire time.  After the 20 seconds I would adjust the knot up about 1/4".  I did this until the knot was 1" above the highest knot on the bridle.

The location where it seems to have the most pull and be able to stay up without me walking backward was 1/2" above the highest knot on the bridle.

I even did the entire cycle again to see if maybe I missed something.  It was consistent.  It had the pull equivalent to 2-3 lbs hanging on a piece of string.

I then did the entire adjustment thing and walked back 10-15 feet and pulled the kite off the ground.  The goal here was to see if maybe the string weight was too much.  Again I found that It had the greatest pull and stayed in the air when I had the knot 1/2" above the top knot.

After finally giving up on the Nexus I switched the lines over to the Quantum with the bridle on "Strong wind".  I was immediately pulled off my feet several times as the Quantum zipped across the sky.  After a few minutes I put away the Quantum because it had so much pull.  I figured it was going to break my 150# lines.

In contrast, when I was flying the Nexus a few moments later I would say the pull was equivalent to a maximum of 5 lbs in all my adjustment testing.  The Quantum was easily 20 lbs of pull and was flying VERY fast.

My time is way too precious to waste time with this kite.  If I cannot get at least ONE positive experience on the Nexus, this kite will be sent to the swap meet.

I am absolutely amazed that the Nexus is considered an entry kite.  Please help me understand!  If this were my first Kite, I would be on to scrapbooking as a hobby (and that is NOT a good thing!)

Again, to give you an understanding of my experience...
 I can do 360s all day long on my 4D.
 I can make adjustments to the weights on the Quantum Pro SUL and notice a difference.  I can tell when I have the weight slightly higher than I want it for the winds.
 I feel that I can fly in light winds (1-3) very well.
 I rarely have to stop, pick up the kite and walk to the front of the field because I used up all the space.  Instead I can glide it and make up ground whenever I want.
 
Anyone???


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: RobB on July 17, 2010, 07:54 PM
150# 85' is too long and heavy of a line for a little kite. Try 50-100# quality line in a 50' length. Adjust the kite to where you had the best results with the long heavy lines. See if that doesn't make the difference.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: DD on July 17, 2010, 10:02 PM
"stock" line with this is 65' 90# line( and iirc it reminded me more of 50# line thickness). I think i still have a nexus here someplace, if i can find it i'll measure.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: WinterDaze on July 18, 2010, 12:25 AM
shoot some video,maybe that can help the guru's to tell by flight characteristics, include yourself in if you can so your movements can be checked off the list as well.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: thief on July 18, 2010, 06:05 AM
i wonder if the long part of the bridle is installed upside down.....
if to get the thing to fly you had to go ABOVE the knotted areas then if that line were flipped top-to-bottom that would put the attachment inside the knotted areas....
that would be a start.....

have you posted over on the prism forum asking yet????


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: ET on July 18, 2010, 06:35 AM
Bummer you're having problems.  I think I see the problem. 

Nexus is a 3 point IIRC - or that is.. my Nexus is a 3 point.  With that turbo leg you have and that I see, the nose will go way way back. 

Put the the tow point bridle back between the 2 knots of the upper and lower outhaul.  With your inhaul, move it towards the tow point. 

My measurements are:
41cm upper outhaul
41cm lower outhaul
44.5 cm inhaul           

All of Prism kites you mentioned have some sort of turbo leg.  Nexus does not.  (unless Mark made some changes in the last year or so)



Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: kevspilly on July 19, 2010, 01:02 PM
Give the upper outhaul a wrap or two round the upper spreaders on easch side. That should bring the nose forward and increase drive. It's a quick test that's easy to undo.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: Steven L Hall on July 19, 2010, 03:53 PM
Pretty sure line length/strength are not your issue. (actually I am positive)
Everett makes a great point ... your tow point appears to be in the wrong position to me also.  I haven't checked but I am pretty darned sure that it should be three point.
I made the offer in another forum ... if you can't figure it out send it to me and I will make it fly.  If the bridle is indeed the issue I am positive that Prism will send me a replacement at no charge.  Cost to you is postage (12-13 bucks max) but could save you a whole lot of further aggravation.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: RobB on July 19, 2010, 05:53 PM
Pretty sure line length/strength are not your issue. (actually I am positive)
Everett makes a great point ... your tow point appears to be in the wrong position to me also.  I haven't checked but I am pretty darned sure that it should be three point.
I made the offer in another forum ... if you can't figure it out send it to me and I will make it fly.  If the bridle is indeed the issue I am positive that Prism will send me a replacement at no charge.  Cost to you is postage (12-13 bucks max) but could save you a whole lot of further aggravation.
I'm surprised you would disagree... I've flown my Micron on longer, heavier lines, and it could barely get off the ground. Put it back on the stock lines, and it was zipping around. Just my experience, but it sounds like the same issue.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: Steven L Hall on July 19, 2010, 06:05 PM
Quote
I tried 60 ft, 50 ft, 30ft and finally 18ft lines.  Same results.
If he were using really long and really heavy line I'd agree with you Rob.  But these are pretty short ... to real short and my experience is that it makes little difference on the weight for short lines (with in reason)... in fact I have a set of 200# lines that I fly my TTUL on in zero wind ... granted they are all of 10' long.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: RobB on July 19, 2010, 07:56 PM
Sorry, Steve, I was just reading from the updated post, not the original when I responded. I do agree with the possibility of a defective bridle... I've gotten a Prism kite with a bridle problem, too. Same symptom. I never gave it another chance, just left it home.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: jeepersjoey on July 20, 2010, 06:46 PM
Next weekend I am going camping at a lake that is known for high winds.

I am going to try again there.

If after using 50# lines I am unable to get it airborne, I will take you up on the offer, Steve.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: reef runner on July 22, 2010, 06:17 AM
I thought this was an interesting topic.  I likewise, have had the Nexus problem.  I purchased two of them last year.  Absolutely couldn't keep them in the air.  I can't tell you how many times I launched them, only to have them simply fall out of the sky.  Likewise, on these same days, there were no problems with other two line kites.  Both of those kites have now gone bye-bye, and to this day, I still don't understand.  I just chalked it up to a bad design (?), and unfortunately, they have somewhat, tainted my opinion of Prism's newer stuff. 

Not meaning to get off subject, or to bash Prism, but I suppose I liked the older Prism designs, better.  Well I know I liked the older Prism designs (pre-E2) better, in fact much more, than the later stuff, with all the fishing swivels, etc.  I've helped a lot of new people, get started, only to find really inexcusable problems, right out of the bag.  I'll watch a new flier, come out on the dunes, straight out of the kite store, open a brand new kite, and do everything, pretty much right, but continue to struggle and crash, struggle and crash.  Then I'll usually go over and offer a hand.  How does Prism expect people (Newbie's), to learn to fly, when it's not unusual at all, to open a brand new kite, and find something like the flight lines, are not even close?  6" - 8" difference is not acceptable, in my book.  Needless to say, then I'm usually faced with a half hour ordeal, to equalize the lineset, just so I can finally show the new prospect, that his/her kite, will actually fly........  Unfortunately, after all of this failure, and standing under the broiling sun for several hours, fighting an impossible battle, and now, spending another tedious 30 minutes or more,  fighting with knots and sleeving, most "Newbie's" have completely lost interest, become disgusted, and basically abandoned the desire to get into kiting.  I've seen many, just ready to walk off and leave the whole thing, right there.  "And now before I leave, you want to teach me about line management !!!"  Not hardly !

Again, not meaning to be critical, but there are surely some problems out there.  I suppose everyone has them............sorry Prism, I didn't mean to be picking on you..........I do love my older Prisms!!


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 22, 2010, 08:30 AM
I've helped a lot of new people, get started, only to find really inexcusable problems, right out of the bag.  I'll watch a new flier, come out on the dunes, straight out of the kite store, open a brand new kite, and do everything, pretty much right, but continue to struggle and crash, struggle and crash.  Then I'll usually go over and offer a hand.  How does Prism expect people (Newbie's), to learn to fly, when it's not unusual at all, to open a brand new kite, and find something like the flight lines, are not even close?  6" - 8" difference is not acceptable, in my book.

Not to be a smart aleck, but I would think it would have made a certain amount of sense to send them right back into the store and let the retailer address the uneven linesets.   Not as a retaliatory or punitive measure,  but so the retailer can pass the issue back to Prism. Pretty sure if the frequency of this was allowed to come to full light, it would be easier for Prism to address.   

If it was a mail order, I can see being reticent about having to deal with returns, shipping, etc.  However, if it was a store that was a 180 and walking distance...

Yes, I have received uneven linesets from Prism.... not a matter of creep..... just flat out uneven.  Down the line, equalizing might not be a problem, but as an introduction to kiting... yeah, the sour aftertaste  to the purchase is definitely there.

Smaller degrees of uneven lines.... just more adjustment knots on the straps.

ATB.
Sam

P.S. Currently, I generally consider Prism linesets not quite a write-off, but close.  The Prism winders are cool looking (especially the translucent notch), but the shallow central notch generall means anything nudging the bungee will release it.  This generally happens at the worst possible time and has resulted in tangled lines. 

Sizzle Factor: High
Practical Usage: Flawed Design


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: reef runner on July 22, 2010, 02:58 PM
Trust me, I have told them every time (the store).  And in all fairness, it's not just Prism.....it's just that this thread concerned a Prism kite, with which I have seen, and experienced the exact problem, however, in addition, I have seen way more, than the normal amount of uneven linesets.  I have even emailed, a well know designer of stunt kites, that we all know, and let him know, just what was happening, with some of his kites. 
It's just unfortunate, that the new fliers, usually don't have a clue, just how critical the lines are, and as you say, the frustration factor, goes through the roof.  Sometimes, it's just easier to help out.  The store can't do anything, "in the store", and they surely aren't going to come up on the dunes, and stretch out a set of lines.  What are they going to do, other than give the poor guy a new kite, that may well have the very same problem.  Again, sometimes, just for the benefit of the "Newbie", it's often easier to simply, help out, and usually, you'll make a friend............and I just love to see the smile on their faces, when they finally see their kite, "Take Flight"......................


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: st3307 on July 22, 2010, 03:12 PM
I  always   carry  a few  extra   line  set  with   me  so  if  this  problem  comes   up  I  just  trade  them  lineset   and  get them  flying.  unequal  ones  home  with  me   make  them   equal   done  and  done    back in the  line  bag  for  the  next  newbie  on the  field  that  needs  an equal line  set


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: stapp59 on July 22, 2010, 04:04 PM
Just pulled my Nexus out:

3 point bridle:

Uphaul: 16"
Outhaul: 16"
Inhaul: 18"

Measured with yardstick from frame to knot. Flies fine 5-15mph or so.  Shorter inhauls would make it pretty squirrelly...

I'll add that the uphaul is attached above the leading edge connector, the outhaul is attached below the leading edge connector, and the inhaul is attached just above the center T.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: kiteking on July 22, 2010, 04:13 PM
I  always   carry  a few  extra   line  set  with   me  so  if  this  problem  comes   up  I  just  trade  them  lineset   and  get them  flying.  unequal  ones  home  with  me   make  them   equal   done  and  done    back in the  line  bag  for  the  next  newbie  on the  field  that  needs  an equal line  set

Excellent solution if you happen to be there. I'm concerned with the (newbie) that is out on the field alone and gets so frustrated that they never try again

Reef Runner has the correct attitude also, I think most fliers will assist anyone having trouble with their kite, I personally have assisted many new and experienced fliers on the field with all sorts of problems

But I think continuous feed back to the kite store and manufacture needs to happen so they are aware of quality control problems

Trust me line sets are sooo much better nowadays than they were 30 years ago, you were lucky if the lines were within 3 feet of each other

I also think (it's my practice) that if you do come across a new kite flier, share some of your experience, Tell them about line maintenance, the correct way to wind up lines, how to breakdown the kite and store it away.
Tell them about getting a ground stake and how to let all the line out and prop the kite for easy launch. Discuss the wind window, and how to fly far to the edge to stall/land

Refer them to this forum and encourage them to ask questions



Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: reef runner on July 22, 2010, 05:22 PM
Hey KiteKing,  I couldn't have said it better.  You know, there's a real inner pleasure, when you see that "Newbie", get that thing in the air for the first time, and finally realize, that yes, they are really flying it themselves.  I have spent many a days, helping the "Newbie", rather than flying myself, but the thanks are usually, so very rewarding, but just that smile and big grin, says it all................ ;)


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: ET on July 22, 2010, 06:15 PM
Just pulled my Nexus out:

3 point bridle:

Uphaul: 16"
Outhaul: 16"
Inhaul: 18"

Measured with yardstick from frame to knot. Flies fine 5-15mph or so.  Shorter inhauls would make it pretty squirrelly...

3 point it is! 


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: onlye on October 14, 2010, 06:18 PM
I have a Nexus that has traveled with me in the car for several months.  Love the easy storage and small case.  Nice looking kite in green.  Line set is fine.

Only thing is I too can't get the darn thing to stay in the air.  Last evening I finally manged to keep briefly in the air after adjusting the bridle an inch above the top knot.  I really want to like this kite cause it travels so nicely.  But darned if it will fly nicely.

Anyone made any modes to the kite, bridle or frame to make this a likable kite?


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: jeepersjoey on October 14, 2010, 06:50 PM
Me again!

So the Nexus stayed in my bag for the last few months and I pulled it out this weekend after I crashed and broke the spine on the Quantum.

The wind was too much for the Quantum.  I had 4 tails hanging off the Quantum and it was still too high of a wind.

I bring out the Nexus and I flew it for 10 full minutes before it crashed into the ground and ALSO broke the spine.

WOW what a windy day!

The only way it stayed up was that the wind was about 15 mph.

That is the key...it needs a very hard, steady wind to fly.


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: kiteking on October 14, 2010, 06:59 PM
Sorry mine flew without and adjustments, what is your typical wind speed?? They do need a fair amount to stay aloft


(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_3waCPW86CRA/S6AcY7WcKhI/AAAAAAAAUbE/F65ZbTDpeZI/s128/4586%20Nexus%20Stack%20Mike.jpg) (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_3waCPW86CRA/S6AcY7WcKhI/AAAAAAAAUbE/F65ZbTDpeZI/s640/4586%20Nexus%20Stack%20Mike.jpg)


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: Victrinia Ridgeway on October 14, 2010, 08:33 PM
I have two unmodified Nexus kites... and generally don't try to fly them if there isn't at least 5 mph of wind.... I've never had trouble with either of them when flying in the right wind. In truth it's really not that large of a kite. I can get a Silver Fox in the air before the Nexus even though it weighs more, because the sail is larger.

Of course for low wind days we have a Next... which is awesome... but even a Next doesn't like to fly without a lot of running around if there isn't a little better than 2mph up there.

15 mph....lol not surprised the spines were toasted. The wind ratings are not nearly so wide as the manufacturers claim... I wouldn't want to fly without a vented in that kind of wind... which I have as well.

In the end it's about having the right kite for the wind.  ;) I am taking them on vacation with me next week though... because of their nice small size... along with my new parafoil.  ;D

Victrinia


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: Bob D on October 15, 2010, 05:04 AM
15 mph....lol not surprised the spines were toasted. The wind ratings are not nearly so wide as the manufacturers claim... I wouldn't want to fly without a vented in that kind of wind... which I have as well.

In the end it's about having the right kite for the wind.  ;) I am taking them on vacation with me next week though... because of their nice small size... along with my new parafoil.  ;D

Victrinia

Like a vented Rev! (Or a parafoil.)


Title: Re: Nexus - Why can't I get this off the ground????
Post by: Victrinia Ridgeway on October 15, 2010, 09:11 AM
Like a vented Rev! (Or a parafoil.)

Ahhh grasshopper.... Confucius says... Man who cannot fly kite on two lines should not expect different result with FOUR........... lol

I'm so just kidding...  ;)

v