GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Winged V on July 12, 2010, 05:08 PM



Title: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Winged V on July 12, 2010, 05:08 PM
  I say that is BULL....,and if thats what your flying looks like you aint doing it right.Case in point,up on the hill yesterday there was a car club from Gettysburg having a picnic. There was around 60 people mostly older folks.I flew my IDEVIL for 5 hrs and always had most of their attention. Coin tosses off the roof of the pavilion,stalls in front of their chairs,fades over their heads,roll ups,slides from one end of pavilion to the other end and flying to music in my ipod all afternoon.
When the wind got lite tied on my Widow Maker ul and flew all the finess stuff and you could hear them saying look he has another kite out and their attention was renewed to that kind of flying.

I was not in their faces all day but they were watching all day. My wife,son and friends Joe and Kathy came up and we were sitting under a tree at the end of the day and they were amazed from all the thank you's and comments from the car club as they walked by to go home.Most had never seen a duel line kite before but they left knowing alot more about our kites when they left and to me thats what its about.


It aint what your flying but how you fly it.

(thread title respelled - zippy8)


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: fidelio on July 12, 2010, 05:26 PM
you can share excitement about your day without disparaging how someone else may choose to fly.

live and let live.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: WinterDaze on July 12, 2010, 06:24 PM
I didn't see disparaging in the post, just a confirmation that novice kite 'watches' can and do get 'dual line', As I expierienced the other day also ;)

Either way 5+ hours of flying at any time is a good day!


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: turbo23 on July 12, 2010, 07:08 PM
amen brother


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: DWayne on July 12, 2010, 07:29 PM
  I say that is BULL....,and if thats what your flying looks like you aint doing it right.
Whatever you say champ.  ::)

Denny


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: RobB on July 13, 2010, 01:05 AM
Hey WV...
I know what you're saying about flippy-floppy herky jerky flying. It looks like cr@p... like the kite's broken. The same tricks can be done so they're beautiful to watch in the right hands. Even a Comete is a cool looking trick, in the right hands. Right kite in the right hands, I should say. And that's only if you're watching the kite... anyone watching the pilot is sure to get a laugh, no matter how good the trick is, let's face it, a pilot performing most compicated tricks looks to be having severe spasms to the casual on-looker...
 ;D
~Rob.
BTW... IDEVIL ? not familiar with that one. New Sea Devil variant ?


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Beachbum on July 13, 2010, 02:16 AM
Whoah,

I have had enough here.

WV I give you props as a comp level flier!

You gave us and Dodd a reason to say the FC is a good kite, but, MAN!!!  What happened?!  You seemed pissed about something. 

Now I know I missed something.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: lylenc on July 13, 2010, 06:11 AM
Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc

That's probably correct. Fighting the lines usually doesn't result in smooth flying or tricking ... bloody lawn darts most likely.   ;)

Whether I fly smooth or flippy floppy is irrelevant. The tourists can choose to watch or not, they can get it or not, they can become interested in kiting or not. They can have fun their way and I can have fun my way.

I picture the "in their face" aspect the same as unleashed dogs coming up to me and my kite gear. Some kiters may not mind a chance to pet the dog and chat with the owner. I'd rather appreciate how cute someone's dog is from afar - don't get in my face. I'm sure there is some of each type attitude in the tourist group, too.

One guy had a dog on leash and came up to talk about kites - did the kite promotion routine for about six questions - he let his dog piss on my kite bag - no "sorry" or anything - end of conversation. He didn't have to be asked to get out of my face.

Last week's vacation, had about a mile of open beach at 6am and SUL flying at the high tide line. Temporarily grounded due to zero wind for about ten minutes. Put kite by bag and weaved lines in 20' lengths to minimize my "footprint," even though it was low tide and nearly vacant wide beach. Couple walking half way down the beach with three unleashed dogs lets them run way over to me. Had visions of bird nest lines with three dogs romping around. Had to request owners call their "what they assumed were cute and ok to be in my face" dogs, which they did. They had shocked look that I didn't want their dogs in my face.

Kids and adults stop in the middle of the kite window to watch the kite, make cell phone calls, pull their underwear out of their cracks ... whatever. Even polite requests and explanations for them to move usually don't end positive. The kiter is intruding in "their" space, in their minds. I've learned its best to fly to the top of the window or land at the edge and wait them out. Otherwise, move down a ways so I can get on with my Zen.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: ezme6 on July 13, 2010, 06:19 AM
[quote
BTW... IDEVIL ? not familiar with that one. New Sea Devil variant ?
[/quote]

It is the new Apple knock off made in Silicon Valley...


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: lylenc on July 13, 2010, 06:31 AM
It's nice to have team fly options:  IDEVIL or IQUAD   ;D


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: randyg on July 13, 2010, 08:01 AM
Not sure of the original intent of the message but I prefer to fly how *I* want to fly and if the uninitiated doesn't get it, they can move on, IMO. The "flippity, floppity" is great fun particularly if you're on your game and are linking stuff together pretty well. That can be quite satisfying. But such a style of flying where you're just crashing and burning and missing most of what you are going for can look quite bad.

There is nothing wrong with slowing things down and throwing in some of the more graceful tricks, particularly with an SUL or UL. Mix it up and use the graceful stuff to link to the advanced combos. Heck, at my advancing age, I park the thing in a Fade just to catch my breath.  :-* 


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: RonG on July 13, 2010, 08:06 AM
I don't give a damn whether onlookers "get it" or not.  I don't fly for them.  The only time I care what others think of my flying is when I step in front of a judging panel.  *I* know whether I'm flying well or poorly, and whether people watching think it's utter crap or the best thing they've ever seen is irrelevant.  I don't go out there to be an ambassador for kiting, I fly to have a good time.  End of story.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: kitelover on July 13, 2010, 08:48 AM
I'll bet they're really glad you didn't pop out of that fade "over their heads" and lawn dart someone in the head. That was probably the most self serving post I've ever read. The next time you decide to blow air up your skirt, I think I'll pass.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Dolphinboy on July 13, 2010, 09:00 AM
I echo the sentiment of several other post.

I fly dual line kites for pleasure and recreation.
My pleasure.  ;D
I enjoy when interested people ask questions and if they enjoy what I'm doing, great. But I don't and won't change how I fly because the public doesn't like it.

Tippy flippy flying is every bit as cool and enjoyable as slow graceful flying. It isn't easy either, so there is lots of skill needed. Depending on the tricks it can take a bit of physical fitness too.

Fly how you like.

Peace


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Kitemac on July 13, 2010, 09:35 AM
I don't give a damn whether onlookers "get it" or not.  I don't fly for them.  The only time I care what others think of my flying is when I step in front of a judging panel.  *I* know whether I'm flying well or poorly, and whether people watching think it's utter crap or the best thing they've ever seen is irrelevant.  I don't go out there to be an ambassador for kiting, I fly to have a good time.  End of story.

I wasn't going to post until I saw this comment.  When you are one of the best pilots why not be an ambassador for at least part of the time?  The rev flyers play to and with onlookers.  I think that is good for the sport.  If the dual community only cares if judges or they appreciate their flying that is not healthy for the sport.  Flying for yourself is good, flying to attract others to the sport is not bad and could help kiting participation.  My general impression is that kiting is not a growing activity. 


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Dolphinboy on July 13, 2010, 10:14 AM
I don't give a damn whether onlookers "get it" or not.  I don't fly for them.  The only time I care what others think of my flying is when I step in front of a judging panel.  *I* know whether I'm flying well or poorly, and whether people watching think it's utter crap or the best thing they've ever seen is irrelevant.  I don't go out there to be an ambassador for kiting, I fly to have a good time.  End of story.

I wasn't going to post until I saw this comment.  When you are one of the best pilots why not be an ambassador for at least part of the time?  The rev flyers play to and with onlookers.  I think that is good for the sport.  If the dual community only cares if judges or they appreciate their flying that is not healthy for the sport.  Flying for yourself is good, flying to attract others to the sport is not bad and could help kiting participation.  My general impression is that kiting is not a growing activity. 

I think you miss the point. There is this notion out there that tricky flying is somehow inferior or not as pure or skilled as "old school" flying. Doesn't hold the non kiting public's attention or whatever and I call BS. Plus why fly in a style you don't want to just to be perceived as more graceful?

I so disagree that tricky flying is not attractive to non fliers. So the whole premise of the original post is off the mark. I know this for a fact, because I have been approached and watched many times while doing tippy flippy stuff and people loved it and watched me for hours. Should I say that because of this flying figures and doing slow Axels is lame? Plus I don't want to not enjoy myself because I need to attract new kiters. Believe me, they are attracted my tricky stuff.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: DD on July 13, 2010, 10:22 AM
Mac i hear ya but i have to side with Ron, I fly for me. I will answer questions when asked and generally will be nice but at times i just want to be left alone.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Gamelord on July 13, 2010, 11:16 AM
I am a flippy floppy flier....not by choice though.  I try to be smooth but ya know...the kite seems to have a mind all its own.


Title: Re: Duel line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Moonfog on July 15, 2010, 10:13 AM
Duel line = fighters?  :-[

Dual line = two lines.  ;)


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: zippy8 on July 15, 2010, 01:32 PM
Duel line = fighters?  :-[

Dual line = two lines.  ;)
I know  :( I leave you people alone for a couple of weeks and this is what I come back to  ;)

Mike.


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: chilese on July 15, 2010, 02:07 PM
Mike, when you're gone.....

we are but sheep, wandering aimlessly.

No leader, no purpose...  :(


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Will Sturdy on July 15, 2010, 02:42 PM
What Ron said.... I totally agree. If I were trying to fly for others and not just doing what I want, I'd quickly lose interest.
If you get your kicks out of entertaining a crowd, go for it. Flying should be about doing what you want. There shouldn't be anyone saying that all real fliers fly flippy floppy stuff and I don't think anyone's saying that. People should be able to fly however they want. If that entertains people that's great, but if that is totally lost on the general populace I think that's fine as well. The most important thing about kiteflying is having fun. I at least don't enjoy the type of flying you described. I don't think that makes me any better or worse a person because I like different things.


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 15, 2010, 03:21 PM
Mike, when you're gone.....

we are but sheep, wandering aimlessly.

No leader, no purpose...  :(


Other than:
  • singing Kumbaya... off-key
  • knitting socks (oooh...but we ran out of rainbow yarn)
  • howling at the moon
  • indiscrimant imbibing of kamikaze shooters
  • spontaneous formation of conga lines, while balancing UL kites from random body parts (... the result of too many kamakaze shooters)
  • the occassional jello fight
 
At least we were able to keep John away from the hot knife long enough to prevent any impromptu vented sport kite experimentation.  ???  ???  Yaaaaay us !!

ATB,
Sam





Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Ace on July 15, 2010, 03:22 PM
Surely there is a bit of show off in us all :P
I mean flying for yourself is one thing, but being really good and impressing others is even better. I mean why go to all the effort of years of practice if you can't share, compete or just have fun with other flyers or members of the public. It's an ego thing, just like in any other sport!
Why not show some skills! If you got flaunt it I say ;)


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: indigo_wolf on July 15, 2010, 03:36 PM
Surely there is a bit of show off in us all :P
Up for debate...

if you can't share, compete or just have fun with other flyers or members of the public.

I think there might be a some fine (or not so fine) lines  between
  • share
  • compete
  • just have fun with other flyers
  • or members of the public.

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: kiten00b on July 15, 2010, 03:42 PM
when I do whippywappyflippyfloppy "flying" it's sort of like when I'm noodling on the guitar
I don't expect anyone to like it, it's more just for my own entertainment and I'm easily amused


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: zippy8 on July 15, 2010, 03:59 PM
This.... conversation.... has been going on since roughly five minutes after the first Axel was popped. There is a nice little piece of back and forth between Mike Jones (of Jones Airfoils fame) and Andy Wardley here (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.kites/browse_thread/thread/57104ff1b626bcbf/5d142c0a4cec9c1e?) from 1998. Many of the arguments put forward then have been echoed here. They are unlikely to ever change.

For myself... I do this for my entertainment. I will on occasion both flip and flop. I will also carve shapes. I may even be so bold as to mix and match both. I simply don't care, me.

If all someone does is Precision or all they do is Trickery then I think that they're missing out but it's their loss and not mine. Most spectators where I live are more intrigued by the sight of a grown man "playing" with kites rather than what he's actually doing with it.

Mike.


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: Ace on July 15, 2010, 07:51 PM
Flippy Floppy :o

I thought we were cooler than that :D

Those are the terms that novices use to refer to our beloved sport.

The word is FREESTYLE 8)


Title: Re: Dual line flying = flippy floppy, etc
Post by: lasapcheong on July 15, 2010, 08:08 PM
when I do whippywappyflippyfloppy "flying" it's sort of like when I'm noodling on the guitar
I don't expect anyone to like it, it's more just for my own entertainment and I'm easily amused

Hit. Nail. Head.

Truthfully, there is such a thing as precision in trick flying. Getting the rotation and pitch to happen is one thing, aiming for the intended and consistent speed of execution, entry and exit for another matter is what makes it a lifelong challenge.

-Darryl