GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: cids on August 07, 2010, 09:09 AM



Title: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: cids on August 07, 2010, 09:09 AM
TNT Berck "Uncuted Edition" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfRelXRSacs#normal)


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: DWayne on August 07, 2010, 09:24 AM
Some people can get there in a few years, but in general I'd say most fliers never get as good as Mathias, regardless of how long they fly.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: Craig on August 07, 2010, 09:28 AM
It's not about time, but natural ability, some have it others work hard but never get there, unfortunately I'm in the later group!


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: Hadge on August 07, 2010, 10:49 AM
.....but I thought the F kite flew like that straight out of the bag!..... all you need to do is hold on to the strings!  ;) ;D ...only kidding.

Seriously, it all depends, I've been flying 3 years and it's just starting to come together on a good day ( nowhere near that standard though!) Another guy who posts on the UK forums started the same time as me and is way , way better. As Craig says, it's down to natural ability...or my case lack of it!


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: tpatter on August 07, 2010, 11:03 AM
10,000 hours.  :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book))


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: adx1592 on August 07, 2010, 11:05 AM
Ok, this is the music major in me talking, so hear me out on this one.  :D

Natural ability if only a little part of it. In my opinion, it's HOW you practice flying and how "smart' you practice.
For example, if you learn tricking before control, you're hosed.  If you learn sharp corners, controlled landings and stalls, etc, you can begin to progress faster now that you've given yourself a solid, 'smart' foundation to build upon. It's like my professor said in music theory this year, you can play the concerto unless you've practiced the scales that go with it. So practice the scales and THEN the concerto.

translation to kiting- You can't fly well until you've worked on the basics to progress upon.

in terms of smart practice- lets say you're doing the commete practice. You cant necessarily progress on the trick by pulling random lines and hope it ends up right. Thats senseless and a waste of time. If you break what you're doing down and isolate the parts of the tricks you need to work on, then you're getting more done faster. Thats the only way I practice, and I see improvement often when I'm isolating things like that. I always break down things that need isolation, and always start and end practice sessions with precision, slides, and stalls- back to basics. I've seen faster improvement in myself then practicing senselessly like I used to, and I have music to thank for it (considering I applied the concepts I learned from there to kiting).

Again, just my opinion, but I'll stick by it.  ;)


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: kiten00b on August 07, 2010, 11:17 AM
Quote
It's not about time, but natural ability
location helps too
a beach with smooth winds and other/more advanced fliers to learn from will improve your skills quicker than flying by yourself in turbulent/gusty inland winds


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: Kitemac on August 07, 2010, 11:55 AM
location helps too
a beach with smooth winds and other/more advanced fliers to learn from will improve your skills quicker than flying by yourself in turbulent/gusty inland winds

From a novice perspective this is a key point.  I have learned more in a four hour session with 8-10 mph winds off the water then in 40 hours trying to compensate for gusty (3-18 mph) and turbulent (+/- 90 degrees) winds.  May was great this year.  June/July I had a difficult time maintaining what I learned.


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: RobB on August 07, 2010, 12:24 PM
Hey CIDS...

One of my favorite videos. Some real clean flying, and nice and smooth. Like has been mentioned, depends on alot of factors. Your winds, natural coordination, determination, whether or not you have other pilots to learn from... etc.
From my point of view, not being too naturally coordinated, it's been a struggle to get to where I am, and I still have twice as far to go. So for me... 10 years from the point that I determined that I wanted to learn how to trick. I've spent 500+ hours per year since I got that crazy idea in my head, so I'm thinking that after 5,000 hours of practice, that I might come close to that level of flying.

BTW... ever notice how a great musician can make just playing scales sound good ?  :D

~Rob.


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: skabt on August 07, 2010, 12:30 PM
understand your tool make huge different too ...
wind, line, kite and bla :)


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: cids on August 07, 2010, 04:47 PM
Quote
Natural ability if only a little part of it. In my opinion, it's HOW you practice flying and how "smart' you practice.
For example, if you learn tricking before control, you're hosed.  If you learn sharp corners, controlled landings and stalls, etc, you can begin to progress faster now that you've given yourself a solid, 'smart' foundation to build upon. It's like my professor said in music theory this year, you can play the concerto unless you've practiced the scales that go with it. So practice the scales and THEN the concerto.

translation to kiting- You can't fly well until you've worked on the basics to progress upon.

in terms of smart practice- lets say you're doing the commete practice. You cant necessarily progress on the trick by pulling random lines and hope it ends up right. Thats senseless and a waste of time. If you break what you're doing down and isolate the parts of the tricks you need to work on, then you're getting more done faster. Thats the only way I practice, and I see improvement often when I'm isolating things like that. I always break down things that need isolation, and always start and end practice sessions with precision, slides, and stalls- back to basics. I've seen faster improvement in myself then practicing senselessly like I used to, and I have music to thank for it (considering I applied the concepts I learned from there to kiting).

This is one superb quality advice. Thanks... :)


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: WinterDaze on August 07, 2010, 05:05 PM
One thing my father taught me was practice doesn't always equal perfect, but perfect practice can

And on TPatters 10,000 hours, I was chatting to a friend last night about this and I did a back of the envelope calc onmy kite flying, and it looks like I'm only 10-15% of the way there...

10,000 hours is quite a long time... I hope you're not in a hurry Cids  ;)



Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: KaoS on August 07, 2010, 05:17 PM
I met a young flyer in Queensland earlier this year.  He is self taught (watches videos, but has no-one to fly with) and has been flying around 9 months.  He is well on the way to being this good.

Raw talent beats hours of practice anytime!


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: WinterDaze on August 07, 2010, 05:37 PM
I hate raw talent... :'(


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: rxburner on August 07, 2010, 05:53 PM
How long does it take to fly like this?

About 3 minutes and 25 seconds....

ta dump
Rx


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: cids on August 07, 2010, 05:59 PM
Quote
10,000 hours is quite a long time... I hope you're not in a hurry Cids ;)

Say 2 hrs. per day...10,000 hrs. = 5000 days = 13.69863 years  :'( :'( :'(

Man...This is depressing.  ???

I hope my knee can last this long.  I think I need 3 or 4 knee replacements and finally fly like that.  ;)

Hurry...Me. No.  :-X




Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: cids on August 07, 2010, 06:08 PM
Quote
About 3 minutes and 25 seconds..

Wrong forum !
Are you talk about premature ejaculation ?  :D :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: rxburner on August 07, 2010, 06:40 PM
Quote
About 3 minutes and 25 seconds..

Wrong forum !
Are you talk about premature ejaculation ?  :D :D :D :D :D :D

No... that is how long it would take to fly like that.....

Rx


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: tempest on August 07, 2010, 06:50 PM
 :D  :D    ::)


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: Allen Carter on August 07, 2010, 07:27 PM
As with any physical skill there is an aptitude factor. Some bodies (and brains) are just better suited to certain activities than others.

Teenagers tend to pick things up faster than 40 year olds. Definitely true with sport kite flying.

Most of the best trick flyers I know are generally athletic types. Quick rfeflexes, good hand eye coordination, fast on their feet. Not jocks nescesarily but people more likely to catch something thrown at them (or get out of the way) than people like me.

ALL of the best flyers I know have at one point or another spent a ridiculous amount of time on the field.

A lot of people can get to the point where they can do all the tricks in that video. Certainly not everybody. Being able to do a list of tricks is only part of being able to fly like that video. The control, precision & style exhibited reflect a lot of time not just thinking about tricks.


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: Fearless Object on August 07, 2010, 09:49 PM
it depending who teach you and teach you the right way or not, other wise will take you for ever my friend. Come to BC for Training :) or Long Beach coming up in two week ;)

See you there :)


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: Lee S on August 07, 2010, 10:19 PM
I have to agree with Allen, and and sadly inform you there is no such measure of time. If you desire it, if you invest enough of your life, if you are "the one", then one day you will be the greatest kite flier of all times. Or not.

Early in my interest in this hobby, I remarked to one of my personal mentors that in the 60's, hundreds of thousands of guitars were sold, but only one was sold to Carlos Santana. He chuckled and seemed to like the fact that I had "got it", and had reached that place where I quit trying to learn anything except how to be satisfied with who I was and what I was destined to become. I knew I wasn't going to be great, or win any competitions, but I could be happy with myself regardless.

I like your enthusiasm, and wouldn't ever want to diminish it. By all and any means, follow your dreams and enjoy where they take you. Meet up with Lam if you ever have a chance. He's probably one of the best all around kite guys you'll ever meet if you do, and rumor is that he's a pretty good chef too.


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: cids on August 08, 2010, 03:43 AM
it depending who teach you and teach you the right way or not, other wise will take you for ever my friend. Come to BC for Training :) or Long Beach coming up in two week ;)

See you there :)

Quote
Meet up with Lam if you ever have a chance. He's probably one of the best all around kite guys you'll ever meet if you do, and rumor is that he's a pretty good chef too.

Like learning to drive or race from Hamilton, Alonso, Messa, Weber, Button... :P
Training sessions with the 'Master'......This is a great idea.

Quote
Come to BC for Training :)

or we can ship you here to Toronto... :D :D :D


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: cids on August 08, 2010, 03:48 AM
Quote
10,000 hours is quite a long time... I hope you're not in a hurry Cids ;)

Say 2 hrs. per day...10,000 hrs. = 5000 days = 13.69863 years  :'( :'( :'(

Man...This is depressing.  ???

I hope my knee can last this long.  I think I need 3 or 4 knee replacements and finally fly like that.  ;)

Hurry...Me. No.  :-X





Glucosamine anyone.  :D :D :D  This is getting expensive. :'(


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: flat6nut on August 08, 2010, 12:42 PM
I am glad that I am new to this hobby. For me the fun is in the learning. Every time I fly I am better controlled than the last time. Now if I already knew everything and had nothing else to learn...it would not be as rewarding mentally.


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: Allen Carter on August 08, 2010, 03:31 PM
I am glad that I am new to this hobby. For me the fun is in the learning. Every time I fly I am better controlled than the last time. Now if I already knew everything and had nothing else to learn...it would not be as rewarding mentally.

One of te great things about an activity like this, there's always more to learn.

It's like playing a guitar, you may have known all the chords for years but the music keeps getting better the longer you play it.


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: vertigo2u on August 08, 2010, 03:44 PM
Flying weekly with Devin,Jon,Spencer,Steve... all excellent pilots and champs.  Makes me try even harder.  As difficult as it seems at times.  I find pleasure in improving... I made a vow to myself to practice and practice.  I started last year and could hardly land by October's end.  I now can land and span stall and lazy susan's as well as turtles... Axels I am having problem but last year it was landing.. So some times they look good and other times I repeat the same dumb move and fail... It is difficult to anticipate a time when I can say I am as good as Devin or Jon but that is not going to happen... That does not mean one day I can't do an axel or comete' because one day I will... It will happen because of people like Jon,Devin,Ken,Dodd and other's who have cut through the path of difficulty and have proven It Can Be Done...  These guys have set high standards for all of us to try and achieve.  They shown what it's like to fly like birds and float like clouds.  The impossible possible.

How long will it take me to fly like these guys. Maybe never, but I want to make sure I enjoy the trip trying...  That just floating and moving left to the right and landing with grace and take-offs and slides are o.k.  That allowing my kite to gently play in the sky while my ears are filled with music is O.K.

I try and spend a lot of time practicing.  But hardly spend time playing...
Let me put it his way...

How much time do we spend pulling "tails" ???  Tails look great and help others watching to enjoy the view of sky writing... If you "youtube Ray Bethel a 89 year old man flying three kites at once.  He pulls tails and puts on a great show... he's the best..

I guess doing tricks is one thing and don't get me wrong I am going to keep trying and trying to get good.  However, what would your next fly day be like with a nice set of color tails  spinning against the water or sunset....

So in regards to how long does it take.... Kites will always give the  adrenal glands a run for their money...  Daily improvements will get a  blast from those little glands.  It should be a daily experience finding out your one of the guys in the video...  Your flying and having fun... Pull Tails..   I bet if a bunch of guys set up cameras as they flew Tails they'd be surprised at how good it looks...  It should only take that first flight to realize this sport is for you..  You don't have to be great to pull tails and enjoy... If you don't believe me.  Pull tails and look at those people who never have flown a kite watching you... They are wondering " How long does it take to fly like that "..  ;)


Title: Re: How long does it take to fly like this ???
Post by: lylenc on August 15, 2010, 09:25 AM
There isn't enough time or motivation for me to fly like that skill level. I've reached my desired level without turning kiting into work. As long as kiting makes me happy and I'm having fun, I do "fly" like that zen level ... just not as many perfected tricks in my bag.