GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: onlye on August 08, 2010, 08:28 AM



Title: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: onlye on August 08, 2010, 08:28 AM
http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=3696.0;topicseen (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=3696.0;topicseen)

I had a number of thoughts but decided to just ask.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: kiten00b on August 08, 2010, 09:06 AM
it looked like a case of a moderator being overly zealous


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: RobB on August 08, 2010, 09:07 AM
Yeah, weird, seemed like a valid subject...


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: chilese on August 08, 2010, 10:02 AM
The moderator in question is talking it out with his coffee machine (in his own words).

I leave the decision in his hands.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: jaybett on August 08, 2010, 11:25 AM
The way the question is asked, the answer would always be no. So what is the point in discussing it?

Now if the o.p. asked, What is the ideal line length for flying and or learning tricks? I'm sure the moderator would allow discussion on that topic.

Jay


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: JimB on August 08, 2010, 11:31 AM
Just zippy's way of letting us know he'd like to see a little more critical thinking put into the creation of topics in his bailiwick IMO.

Also, perhaps a sign of how far the lack thereof has pushed him towards the edge: if not over.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: flat6nut on August 08, 2010, 12:06 PM
Not very encouraging for us new people here. I was going to start a thread like this one. Guess I will stick to asking my questions in the chat.
Thouhgt kite flying was supposed to be a way to releave stress...some people are just wound too tight.

Michael


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: tpatter on August 08, 2010, 12:21 PM
It's a tough question to answer - all about the specific kite to me.  Some I really like on short lines, some I don't.  Some are good on short lines in light wind, but not in higher wind.  Some don't have enough pressure on the lines to pull 120' lines very well in moderate wind.

I think there is no decent answer - it depends on the kite, winds, and flyer.

(I guess we can hi-jack this thread!)  :)


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Dano on August 08, 2010, 12:46 PM
... (I guess we can hi-jack this thread!)  :)

Be careful!
The helicopters are still hovering.
 :)


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: mikenchico on August 08, 2010, 12:50 PM
This one is going to get hot I think, 3 members writing posts to it as I do ... LOL. I'll move the following if it re-opens.

Anyway cids, no there isn't a perfect line length, that is purely personal preference and you'll get 3 pages of replies proving that. But you go on in your post and state you are currently using 55kg at 100' for all your flying . OK then, if you're comfortable with 100' that is YOUR perfect length, someday you may change even that preference.

But there are better options for the weight of line used if we are talking about use on 6' - 8' framed delta wing dual line sport kites. 55kg or 120 lbs would be considered by most as too heavy for light wind flying.

Some people will go as low as 50 lb line, I have a couple sets myself, but some have experience breakage with 50 lb lines, I have myself.

75-90 lb is usually considered a good all around weight, I use that weight about 90% of the time.

When those 90 lb lines start singing as the wind comes up I'll opt for the lines I've gotten in "Ready to Fly" kites which are usually in the 120 - 150 lb range.



Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: mikenchico on August 08, 2010, 01:04 PM
Not very encouraging for us new people here. I was going to start a thread like this one. Guess I will stick to asking my questions in the chat.
Thouhgt kite flying was supposed to be a way to releave stress...some people are just wound too tight.

Michael

Sad that some people delight in making new fliers uncomfortable in the forums, sad too that that leaves you with input from only the 5 or 6 people who visit the chat room.

The only dumb question is the one not asked, It doesn't matter if we've done it already 1000 times, you're new here and may not want to spend 3 weeks going over 10 years of posts, so I'll answer it 1000 more times.

And I'll answer it even if your grammer is off or you spell it wrong  ;) I'm skipping the spell checker this post, so fire away Mike



Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Kantaxel on August 08, 2010, 01:11 PM
Not very encouraging for us new people here. I was going to start a thread like this one. Guess I will stick to asking my questions in the chat.
Thouhgt kite flying was supposed to be a way to releave stress...some people are just wound too tight.

Michael

Sad that some people delight in making new fliers uncomfortable in the forums, sad too that that leaves you with input from only the 5 or 6 people who visit the chat room.

The only dumb question is the one not asked, It doesn't matter if we've done it already 1000 times, you're new here and may not want to spend 3 weeks going over 10 years of posts, so I'll answer it 1000 more times.

And I'll answer it even if your grammer is off or you spell it wrong  ;) I'm skipping the spell checker this post, so fire away Mike


Thanks Mike!
I wasn't going to respond because of what Dano said.  (I can hear the gatling guns being locked and loaded)

Right on and to the point............... 8)

Jim



Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Gardner on August 08, 2010, 01:51 PM
For what it's worth, I like to fly 90-pound line in lengths fro 85-feet t0 90-feet.  That's for standard kites of course.  On ocassion, I have flow150-pound at 120-130 feet and a full-sized Fury and Quantum Pro VV on 200-pound line.  At the other end of the spectrum, my Pro Wren like 50-pound line ar 60 feet or less.  Contrary to my own rules, I have flown standards on 50-pound line and my Pro Wren very gently on 75-feet of 85-pound line.  And that's tatamount to putting a 350 Chevrolet in a Mini Morris.

There are no set rules or criteria for deciding line length and weight.  It all depends on wind, the kite, and what you want to do or feel like doing, whether it's fly circles and squares or ground passes or yank-and-spank.

Gardner


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: rxburner on August 08, 2010, 02:23 PM
The poster is often Redundant, I think English may be his second language. don't read to much into his original post.
This topic has been discused many times.... it is okay with me that it was locked.

My feelings on line length..??  Size Does Not Matter....
Rx


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: DWayne on August 08, 2010, 03:22 PM
This topic has been discused many times.... it is okay with me that it was locked.

Pretty selfish attitude.

Denny


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: rxburner on August 08, 2010, 03:28 PM
Thanks Denny, that was a nice thought....  knowing you, I am very glad you are on a different page than me.....   
Rx


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: bfranz on August 08, 2010, 03:56 PM
So, we can have 7 PAGES and 104 posts about whether kite X is worth $500 or kite Y is worth 3 times kite Z? Those may be perfectly valid questions with no absolute answers. It depends on who is being asked. Seems like the thread that was locked in a rather high-handed way (IMO) was asking the same type of open ended question. No harm in letting it develop on its own - plenty of potential harm in censorship.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Kantaxel on August 08, 2010, 05:58 PM
Thanks Denny, that was a nice thought....  knowing you, I am very glad you are on a different page than me.....   
Rx

They say opposites attract.....


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: zippy8 on August 09, 2010, 06:42 AM
Seeing as how you've asked  ;)

Yes, for the most part it was a case of being a bit quick on the trigger but there are other reasons why I've kept it locked and, frankly, would prefer not to see its like pop up here.

I'm all for sharing information and I'm not averse to a reasonable amount of jibber jabber (http://www.jacksonvillemag.com/blogs/media/blogs/Specktator/PityTheFool.jpg) too but there is a danger of the signal-to-noise ratio dwindling. This particular question was only ever going to get unanswers - personal preference and opinion masquerading as "facts". We've been over this again and again so kindly employ the search function if you really wish to read these viewpoints.

There is no magic line length, no Hour of Sorcery where you turn from hack to KiteGodô, no charmed wind speed at which point "freestyle" suddenly kicks in. Let us not speculate about them any further.

HTH

Mike,
just like this in real life.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: in.divi.dual on August 09, 2010, 07:06 AM

I always thought moderators made for the best trolls :D


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: DWayne on August 09, 2010, 07:37 AM
Seeing as how you've asked  ;)

Yes, for the most part it was a case of being a bit quick on the trigger but there are other reasons why I've kept it locked and, frankly, would prefer not to see its like pop up here.

Yeah, that's the right attitude Mike. Discourage participation. Maybe you can turn this forum into the ghost town FA's forum has become.  ::)


Denny


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: mikenchico on August 09, 2010, 08:01 AM
Dang I wish I had said that Denny  ;)  Guess it hasn't been so long ago that you were searching for those answers, what just over two years?

I do need to add that I have great respect for Mike's (Zippy8) contibutions to the Forum's he has an unequaled knowledge over many years of involvement in kiting.

It's just this is the internet, I don't correct my spelling in the chatroom unless the mistake or omission changed the meaning of the post, I don't expect you too either. If I can comprehend your meaning I'll run with it, if not I'll ask. There are still people just getting on the internet who haven't learned all the etiquette yet, you don't call them out and publically embarrass them, offer them help.



Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: thief on August 09, 2010, 08:58 AM
trollbaiting seems to be a hobby here sometimes....

i would rather someone use the search box and find the parallel matching threads then start another one....


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: inewham on August 09, 2010, 12:19 PM
Anyone else think a FAQ thread might be a good idea? Sticky it at the top or maybe even a subforum full of them.

Not a raw beginners FAQ, most people don't start to wonder about things like line lengths etc. until they've been flying a while so I don't suggest putting it in the beginners forum.

Since we've lost a lot of info in the forum move you can't assume a search will turn up everything and a lot of people haven't have seen it all before so keep the answers helpful (not just 'no') but brief.







Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: DD on August 09, 2010, 12:46 PM
Anyone else think a FAQ thread might be a good idea? Sticky it at the top or maybe even a subforum full of them.

Not a raw beginners FAQ, most people don't start to wonder about things like line lengths etc. until they've been flying a while so I don't suggest putting it in the beginners forum.

Since we've lost a lot of info in the forum move you can't assume a search will turn up everything and a lot of people haven't have seen it all before so keep the answers helpful (not just 'no') but brief.

+1

 a list of the top faqs, maybe not "kiting 101" but "kiting 201", somewhat from the college/school numbering system
 the "Ok i can keep the kite in the air and i am beyond the lawn dart stage, what do i do next?" faq
sounds like a new thread to start and submit faq questions and short non-biased answers is in order





Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: tcope on August 09, 2010, 01:24 PM
Yet there are threads with only a subject line, "How long does it take to fly like this ???". It's not like it's a thread with no real answer and pure speculation. Storage space is cheap and it's not like there are hundreds of threads each day.

I'm just saying...


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: skabt on August 09, 2010, 01:39 PM
Seeing as how you've asked  ;)

Yes, for the most part it was a case of being a bit quick on the trigger but there are other reasons why I've kept it locked and, frankly, would prefer not to see its like pop up here.

I'm all for sharing information and I'm not averse to a reasonable amount of jibber jabber ([url]http://www.jacksonvillemag.com/blogs/media/blogs/Specktator/PityTheFool.jpg[/url]) too but there is a danger of the signal-to-noise ratio dwindling. This particular question was only ever going to get unanswers - personal preference and opinion masquerading as "facts". We've been over this again and again so kindly employ the search function if you really wish to read these viewpoints.

There is no magic line length, no Hour of Sorcery where you turn from hack to KiteGodô, no charmed wind speed at which point "freestyle" suddenly kicks in. Let us not speculate about them any further.

HTH

Mike,
just like this in real life.



But they does need some guide before they get the right solution or direction .... most ppl start with a pair of white line without knowing the different or name ....




Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: DWayne on August 09, 2010, 01:54 PM
Guess it hasn't been so long ago that you were searching for those answers, what just over two years?

That's right. And I still have more questions than answers.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Steve on August 09, 2010, 03:14 PM
FAQ is an excellent idea Ian. 
Some on got the time to put that together?
It could certainly have its own section.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Craig on August 09, 2010, 04:17 PM


Yeah, that's the right attitude Mike. Discourage participation. Maybe you can turn this forum into the ghost town FA's forum has become.  ::)


Rather that than endless topics on the F******S  :D


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: mikenchico on August 09, 2010, 05:26 PM
Not sure what F******S means but this forum has to be self supporting, that means it depends on those advertisers on the right. Those advertisers depend on the stats to show their investment is being seen. Chasing off participation is doing this forum, Steve & Chris, the kiting community & all those who enjoy it a diservice. The alternate option is to fill it with obnoxious advertising throughout the posts as you'll find on other forums.

Is that really that hard to grasp? Are we going to hear "What did I say?" When it's gone?



Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: stapp59 on August 09, 2010, 05:40 PM
+1  Good idea! While not an expert on all topics, I'd help contribute...

Anyone else think a FAQ thread might be a good idea? Sticky it at the top or maybe even a subforum full of them.

Not a raw beginners FAQ, most people don't start to wonder about things like line lengths etc. until they've been flying a while so I don't suggest putting it in the beginners forum.

Since we've lost a lot of info in the forum move you can't assume a search will turn up everything and a lot of people haven't have seen it all before so keep the answers helpful (not just 'no') but brief.








Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Dano on August 09, 2010, 06:35 PM
Not sure what F******S means ...

as Craig presented it, it was pretty easy for me to understand.

maybe Fearless"?  ::)



Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Kantaxel on August 09, 2010, 08:06 PM
Kinda cool........
Seems the more we try to get it to go away the more it just jumps up and bites us on the posterior.......

Nothing to do with Fearless, IMO.......just more to do with fearful............can't we all just get along?

FAQ will just make the more paranoid Global Moderator(s)......more Paranoid?

Thoughts?

 :'(


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Kantaxel on August 09, 2010, 08:09 PM
Not sure what F******S means but this forum has to be self supporting, that means it depends on those advertisers on the right. Those advertisers depend on the stats to show their investment is being seen. Chasing off participation is doing this forum, Steve & Chris, the kiting community & all those who enjoy it a diservice. The alternate option is to fill it with obnoxious advertising throughout the posts as you'll find on other forums.

Is that really that hard to grasp? Are we going to hear "What did I say?" When it's gone?



Just wanted to do the spellcheck for you MiIke, before the Troll showed up........

That's disservice............


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: skykbass on August 09, 2010, 08:52 PM
You can't change the wind, you can however adjust your sails.

If it wasn't for all us noobs, there would be no point in any of this!!!! Thank you, to all the open-minded, and open-eared teachers that don't mind year after year, or thread after thread, carrying on a tradition of the love of flight, and the enjoyment of the outdoors. Cheers to all!!!


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: GEB on August 09, 2010, 10:22 PM
You can't change the wind, you can however adjust your sails.

If it wasn't for all us noobs, there would be no point in any of this!!!! Thank you, to all the open-minded, and open-eared teachers that don't mind year after year, or thread after thread, carrying on a tradition of the love of flight, and the enjoyment of the outdoors. Cheers to all!!!

+1

New FAQ section

+1


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Andy S on August 10, 2010, 08:37 AM
Seeing as how you've asked  ;)

Yes, for the most part it was a case of being a bit quick on the trigger but there are other reasons why I've kept it locked and, frankly, would prefer not to see its like pop up here.

Yeah, that's the right attitude Mike. Discourage participation. Maybe you can turn this forum into the ghost town FA's forum has become.  ::)


Denny

FA's always been quieter. Smaller in-country population, more specific focus.

Besides, Mike's a mod on precisely one section on FA, so even it has turned into a ghost town it's got nothing to do with him. Couple that with the fact that we very rarely lock, delete, edit or moderate anything on FA and I'd say you make precisely no point here whatsoever.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: DWayne on August 10, 2010, 09:20 AM
Couple that with the fact that we very rarely lock, delete, edit or moderate anything on FA and I'd say you make precisely no point here whatsoever.

Perhaps this ^^^ has more to do with the lack of active participation than the "small in-country population" does. I wasn't suggesting that Mike was personally responsible for the lack of active participation there. But rather that the things that discourage active participation are. Disparaging remarks meant to stifle participation certainly have to rank high in that regard. Left without constraints, members remarks can turn any forum into a ghost town.

Denny



Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: zippy8 on August 10, 2010, 10:17 AM
Left without constraints, members remarks can turn any forum into a ghost town.
So you want more moderation then ? I'll take that onboard.

Hopefully we're all about done here. This topic's question has been answered, has it not ?

Mike.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: DWayne on August 10, 2010, 11:07 AM
Left without constraints, members remarks can turn any forum into a ghost town.
So you want more moderation then ? I'll take that onboard.

Hopefully we're all about done here. This topic's question has been answered, has it not ?

Mike.

Moderation that's conducive to maintaining a user friendly environment and encourages participation is absolutely necessary.


Denny


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: indigo_wolf on August 10, 2010, 11:11 AM
Hopefully we're all about done here. This topic's question has been answered, has it not ?

Mike.


Probably....

I don't think there has been a definitive discourse as to what color line (Berry Blue, LPG White, Climax Red/Orange or something else entirely  ???) is optimal, but that should probably be left for another day.

<* Ducks and runs away *>  (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/6.gif) (http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/11.gif)

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: tcope on August 10, 2010, 11:26 AM
Hopefully we're all about done here. This topic's question has been answered, has it not ?
Do any threads really need to be locked down because the question has been "answered"? I can certainly understand if the thread goes off on a tangent and posts are not adding to the topic. But other then that, what is the harm in leaving it open and allowing it to die out on it's own? It's not like threads are 5-6 pages long and people are getting out of hand.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: RobB on August 10, 2010, 11:36 AM
Hopefully we're all about done here. This topic's question has been answered, has it not ?

Mike.


Probably....

I don't think there has been a definitive discourse as to what color line (Berry Blue, LPG White, Climax Red/Orange or something else entirely  ???) is optimal, but that should probably be left for another day.

<* Ducks and runs away *>  ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/6.gif[/url]) ([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/11.gif[/url])

ATB,
Sam


Blue line rocks !

(http://ferob.com/classykites/P1080400.jpg)


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2010, 11:43 AM
Enough already.

I have considered everyone's input and I think I have a good understanding of the issues involved.

I will always support my moderators and their decisions up to their truly damaging the forum ... and this falls way, way short of that.  To be honest Mike actually beat me to doing the same thing  :o.

We are in the process of creating a Forum FAQ section.  This will be a section of the forum to answer some of the questions that have been asked repeatedly over the years and to provide a few links to pertinent threads on the subject.  It will be read only.  Allowing for discussion on the questions would only further creation of the sort of threads we are trying to avoid.  BUT ... Your input will be sought.  I have created an email account that you will be able to use to suggest questions or to suggest (or possibly amend) answers.  Member participation in this section will be strongly encouraged.


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: Dolphinboy on August 10, 2010, 11:50 AM
Maybe a more constructive response to the post on the original tread would have been more appropriate than just locking it. A suggestion to use the search function or suggestion how the question could be rephrased rather than nuking the tread with little explanation.

The forum has some enthusiastic posters. Many are newer trick kiters and they are excited about this cool new interest they have discovered. I think that is a good thing and if they seem redundant to you, don't respond or even read them.

Instead, why not start threads that you find more interesting or that relate better to your own interests? When I read responses like "not another thread about $$$ kite, or %%% trick" etc. it makes me wonder what the poster is doing to increase the quality of the forum THEMSELVES. I feel those type posts are just cluttering up threads that are interesting to others. The best way to assure better content is to create it and encourage it by adding to it when you see it. Add your experience, knowledge and opinions, they are as valid as any. Whining about it just adds more clutter and makes the poster just as tedious, or more, as seemingly redundant post about similar subjects. Trolling, dropping flame bombs and constantly posting or piling on negativity always drag forums down.

I think it's good to see many posts about a kite, a trick or whatever. It means that active users are flying and / or interested in the kite / trick / product. Isn't that what is keeping kiting going? People actually excited about kites, flying kites, tricking kites?



Peace


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: cids on August 10, 2010, 12:36 PM
First I would like to make an apology if I'm the one who causing this problem.

This is a sticky(You don't have to be a beginners...) from Beginners Corner by AC
Quote
First & foremost this is a friendly place for new forum members to talk about anything kite related.

Second, it's a place for new flyers to ask all the questions that come to mind. Rest assured, they've all been asked before, but that doesn't mean they should get answered with "use the Search feature". Especially since this New Forum has little to search on.

The Old Forum had an amazing amount of info and I'm going to try to capture some pertinent threads here before it goes away.

We've got some of the best kite flyers and best kite forum posters on the planet around here, so there's no topic too obscure or too obvious.

Is this statement apply to AC's Beginners Corner only or to the whole GWTW Forum ?


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: onlye on August 11, 2010, 05:41 PM
First I would like to make an apology if I'm the one who causing this problem.

Nope, you didn't cause any problem and I believe an apology is totally unnecessary.  And I did not mean to start a 4 page thread.  Was just curious.
-------------------------------------------
By the way, to your original question, as I was learning to fly I had a number of experienced enthusiast tell me the perfect line length to use to trick.  Everything from 25' to 125'.  The most specific being 63'.  Not knowing any better I tried a number of these only to find the lengths (yes plural) that I considered ideal.  I appreciated all of the strong opinions and used them to find my own way. 

25' is great fun for a small kite in light wind-really up close and personal.
63' is such a precise number that I have several line sets this length
75' - 85' doesn't suck either

try several and find your own way.  keep flying, posting, reading and of course buying new kites...

Thanks Steve for letting us all ramble!


Title: Re: Just Curious - Why this was thread locked ???
Post by: zippy8 on August 13, 2010, 05:44 AM
If you hadn't noticed.... I've unlocked it. I ask you all to kindly not make me regret this.

Mike.