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Kite Land Talk => Website Discussion => Topic started by: chilese on August 10, 2010, 02:42 PM



Title: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: chilese on August 10, 2010, 02:42 PM
I have only been in this sport 9 years. That's still not long compared to many here on the Forum and those who actually are out in the fields instead of here typing about it.

Over the years I have seen:

1 An increase in the popularity of quad-lines (Revs specifically)
2 A decrease or elimination of kites that have a low aspect ratio (Mojo, TrickTail)
3 An increase in the importance of tricks (i.e. "not flying)
4 Heavier stock bridle settings on high end sport kites
5 SULs that do "allthetricks™" by really being quite heavy and relying on the skill/athletics of the pilots
6 The near death of fighter kites being carried in kite stores
7 An increase in kites with noisy trailing edges to limit speed, not for the sake of noise and crowd excitement, but for keeping the kite closer to stall speed for that next series of gyrations.

Was it 1988 when the Revs came to be? The new found control which allowed a kite to hover at will, but still move around on command? Was it that first axel or fade that woke up everyone from flying circles, squares and competing with the pilot doing dance moves along with the kite?

You can't sell a modern sport kite unless it has yoyo stoppers, tail weights and the ability to do pitch tricks and Taz Machines. Ever read any text where the ability of a kite to track well was listed first on strong points?

Not complaining. I spend over half of my flight time practicing tricks so I can get to a level where the VF boys won't roll over laughing every time I enter. Still can't comete. Don't know if I even want to, but I keep after it because I'm supposed to know how to do it. Still practice my figures in-between tricks. They're harder to do well now that I don't spend as much time on them like I did when competing.

Andy Rooney, signing off.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: thief on August 10, 2010, 04:43 PM
good thoughts...
on item #2: are you considering most kites out there now that are being sought after to be high aspect kites??? i would think the opposite....but then to me a low aspect kite would the shape of a Betancourt Badboy and a high aspect is a Psycho/stranger/omegaXS.....

r


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: Allen Carter on August 10, 2010, 05:03 PM
I'd say modern high end kites have a better combination of flight and trick characteristics than ever before. There was a time a few years ago when generally good flying kites were getting weighted and modded to roll up and flying poorly. Now that we've had a few generations of kites that need to be pitch friendly, things are smoothing out and a lot of kites fly well.

I've noticed a trend in less expensive kites, they seem to have less R&D put into flight quality. It takes a lot of tweaking to make a good all around kite. Blue Moon kites fly nice.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: ezme6 on August 10, 2010, 07:34 PM
good stuff here...

#6 Most fighter flyers either make their own or buy from other fighter people who make them. IMHO there has never really been a good fighter sold in kite stores. PKC's and Stryke and such are nice but not really a comp grade fighter. We like fast, little, twitchy, spiny things... 8)


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: JimB on August 10, 2010, 07:56 PM
Kites stopped flying with the advent of the Flexifoil Stranger and its sibling the Psycho.

That was one of the design criteria according to The designer Andy Preston as stated in a kite magazine (which one escapes me at the moment) article. Andy was bored with the then current State of The Art.

He got bored again a few Years later and designed the L7.

In between he came up with the Matrix.

I'm just waiting around for him to get bored again.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: kiten00b on August 10, 2010, 08:08 PM
alas, kites stopped flying with the demise of Seattle AirGear (http://web.archive.org/web/20071026145453/www.seattleairgear.com/1.htm#purchase1).

I blame the Organized Kite Culture.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: JimB on August 10, 2010, 08:24 PM
Okay.

That was (and is) funny. ;)



alas, kites stopped flying with the demise of Seattle AirGear ([url]http://web.archive.org/web/20071026145453/www.seattleairgear.com/1.htm#purchase1[/url]).

I blame the Organized Kite Culture.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: Steven L Hall on August 10, 2010, 09:07 PM
Real funny


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: mikenchico on August 10, 2010, 10:09 PM
I've heard Dodd was to blame for kites stopping flying, he brought out those dang video's and everybody quit flying. Killed the whole kite industry single handedly.

(sorry Dodd, not my words, just amused me when I heard it repeated)



Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: inewham on August 11, 2010, 05:31 AM
The kite I'm looking forward to most is when Ken McNeill gets around to the 'Butterfly Fart Kite'[TM]. I'm anticipating that it will be a broadseamed kite with the emphasis on flying rather than tricking  :P


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: RobB on August 11, 2010, 06:42 AM
I fly kites that 'fly'. I've been having alot of fun with the 2 PBSK kites that I got from the swap meet. They count as kites that 'fly', right ? (BadBoy & Vanishing Point).

Thanks to the guys who passed along these old beauties !

~Rob.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: lylenc on August 11, 2010, 07:08 AM
It's almost as funny as the organized kite culture kite forum:

No sex     >:(

No politics    :(

No religion    :o

No line length     :-[

Maybe in regards to line length:
 You have to pray that
 Bigger isn't always better and
 The left wing and the right wing agree

Where were these rules during the mindless and endless Stx topics that make Fearless topics appear to be in infancy?    :-X

Since someone was so brazen to mention a financial issue (it's not officially on the "no topic list" yet), it appears yesterday may have been the reversal day for the Euro's move from about $1.18 to $1.33 and the end of the sideways topping action in the stock market. Large down trends in both may be resuming. Might even see "Greece" type stories back on the front pages for papers in search of a "reason" for the down trend. Greece type stories never went away - it's just newspapers' fitting the stories to the events.

Now, back to the organized kite culture elite's permitted topics.   ;)  :D  ;D       

(however, I refuse to use   8)  or    :P)     ::)


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: mikenchico on August 11, 2010, 07:28 AM
The kite I'm looking forward to most is when Ken McNeill gets around to the 'Butterfly Fart Kite'[TM]. I'm anticipating that it will be a broadseamed kite with the emphasis on flying rather than tricking  :P

When Ken started the series "The Next Dimension" on Pairs flying in conjunction with Jeff McCown I was hopeful we would see a slightly more modern Team and/or Ballet Kite, alas the Mamba is still the best option in the Blue Moon line-up, and it is currently being modified into a trickier version. How many hits did that section of Blue Moon receive? Did anybody other then myself read and save all 3 installments?

I'll bet Ken is aware that the Pro Dancer SUL (similar to your description) sells 3 kites (estimate) per year and past the initial run of 10-15 for the Blue Moon number fanatics he would be splitting that market with Jon?

Many of todays Polyvalant (probably trashed that spelling) "Fly" pretty good. I always spend a few minutes "Flying" a kite, whether it's a new kite to me or my old standby, just doing some precision work and feeling out the wind window before attempting any slack line move so I have a feel for it's recovery characteristics for when I blow a move and end up nose down under power.

IMO it's not a case of the kites quit flying, fliers quit flying.



Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: randyg on August 11, 2010, 08:36 AM
I still fly between trick sequences. I enjoy working on controlled flying, sharp angles, arcs & the like. And pretty much all my kites fly very well. Its not like they fall out of the sky if I stop tricking them.

IMO, if all one could do is fly around I'd moved on long ago.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: Bill Rogers on August 11, 2010, 08:41 AM
IMO, if all one could do is fly around I'd moved on long ago.


Agreed Randy. Don't think I would have lasted a year.

See ya,
Bill


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: DWayne on August 11, 2010, 08:56 AM
IMO, if all one could do is fly around I'd moved on long ago.


Agreed Randy. Don't think I would have lasted a year.

See ya,
Bill

+1

Denny


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: tpatter on August 11, 2010, 09:09 AM

I was thinking about this question recently.  My last 3 times out, there has been essentially no wind, so I have been flying my new 4D.  I met 2 other guys flying their Ozones/Vapors last time out.  Axels, fades, 540s, slots,  backspins, some flick flacks if you have the touch.

These kites are not much for precision or the latest tricks, but they sure do fly!  They readily sail through the air with amazing drive with little effort and are very easy to stall and just "hover" them while doing rotational tricks like the pinwheel, reversing 540s, helicopters, that sort of thing.  You flatten out the kite and it will just sit there waiting for you.

A different flying experience than the newer pitchy kites.  I much prefer the newer kites, but its nice to fly and old(er) school kite and appreciate that flying style as well.



Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: Allen Carter on August 11, 2010, 09:35 AM

IMO it's not a case of the kites quit flying, fliers quit flying.


Yup.

Back to Mr. Preston's designs, you might say that evolution has created kites that "Not Fly" like the Stranger & Psycho and fly real well like the Matrix. Those kites are a real good example of the trade offs you used to have to make. Of course the Matrix was trickier than some other full size Ballet kites of the era.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: John Welden on August 11, 2010, 10:45 AM
For me , the first kite I owned that didn't really "fly" was the Elixir. 1998? 

The Radian certainly didn't fly.  Probably one of the worst ever.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: FlyingJoe on August 11, 2010, 11:35 AM
For me , the first kite I owned that didn't really "fly" was the Elixir. 1998? 
Interesting you say that.  I finally added an Elixir to my bag in the early 2000s, and still have yet to "connect" with it.

At the time, it was spoken of so highly, I never spoke up to say "I don't get it".



Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: Dolphinboy on August 11, 2010, 11:38 AM
I used to fly dual line kites in the 1980's and quit after several years. Three years ago I watched a YouTube video of Andy Wardley "tricking" a Gem. I had to do that myself. Within a few weeks I had a trick kite and was well on my way to trick kite nirvana. I am way more into it than I ever was before.

I find tricking endlessly challenging and interesting compared to flying alone. Plus it's more fun than just standing around flying. ;D  Enjoyment and the challenge of mastering / perfecting tricks keeps be going out. I do enjoy tricking with some nice looking precision flying incorporated in between tricks too. Although tricks are my main focus, it doesn't have to be "either or" for me. Oh yeah, all my kites fly too.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: kiten00b on August 11, 2010, 11:45 AM
kites stopped flying when we started posting on kite forums instead of getting outside


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: the*real*stoney on August 11, 2010, 12:44 PM
Kites have been around more than 2000 years. Kiting isn't boring - it's the fliers who get bored and they get bored because they don't apply their imagination.When a flier begins flying kites, he or she is highly motivated - all full of enthusiasm. First S(he) sees something that seems cool and interesting and- more importantly - something that will draw attention and admiration from jealous uninitiated non- fliers. This is a fatal illusion because most people don't recognize the potential of the kite - that makes you special because you have set yourself apart from the herd. Don't expect the ordinary individual (who has no imagination and who is only motivated by money or sex) to rush over to you, quivering with the desire to fly a kite. So you must realize that the most important person to impress is  - YOU.
Now- If you choose TRICKS, learn all you can and spur yourself to be your best but don't expect to be mobbed by an adoring public because all they see is somebody who is flopping a kite around - never thinking for one moment that the movement of the kite is a controlled activity.. Don't give it a thought, just do your best and perfect your skills to a point that will leave you proud of yourself when you walk off the field.
  
When you start to feel a little bored with the tricks, think about other ways a kite can be flown. Try to fly two dual line kites, one in each hand, master that and throw a 3rd one into the mix. You probably won't ever get to the level achieved by Ray but you'll likely be the best multiple flier in your state. Don't like that? Then try flying off a dog stake and then try two, one in each hand. All of this is for your satisfaction. If someone comes over and slobbers all over you, it's pure envy. Take it in stride but don't think that what you are doing will motivate the "fan" to take up kiting. Encourage him but don't beg. Keep on trying to do something that will challenge you. Fly a dual line blindfolded - to music and then fly two blindfolded and then to music. When you get done with everything that you can think of, do it all again with quadline kites.

All of this is for your self satisfaction not to impress some numb-nut who shouts something like "Go fly A Kite " and walks away, chuckling and congratulating himself as the last comic standing. While you are doing all of this exploring, you will be improving your eye - hand coordination and you will be enriching your imagination skills so that you will be more valuable to your employer because you will be able to come up with a plan of action when trouble pops up around the office. AND Most importantly, don't let LOSERS take away something that gives you pleasure. And Remember- If everyone flew kites, there would be no room for you. Be grateful for the space.

Stoney


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: John Welden on August 11, 2010, 01:31 PM
For me , the first kite I owned that didn't really "fly" was the Elixir. 1998? 
Interesting you say that.  I finally added an Elixir to my bag in the early 2000s, and still have yet to "connect" with it.

At the time, it was spoken of so highly, I never spoke up to say "I don't get it".



The Elixir is a pretty odd ball kite and not something everyone is going to like.  I spent a lot of time on it and grew to love it.  There is something about the aesthetics of it tricking that kept my attention for many years.  I like the way it doesn't "fly". If you can get some decent wind and get enough time on it to where it's not just a turd that falls out of the sky, it's one of the best kites ever in my opinion.

If I were you, I'd probably put your time into a more modern kite.  No reason to fight with an elixir unless you absolutely love it.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: Shamrocky on August 11, 2010, 07:02 PM
Bravo Stoney!!!

I loved your posting.   I also agree with you 100%.   

Jackie


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: GEB on August 11, 2010, 07:19 PM
 When I started flying I was told that the Elixir was a kite for very advanced flyers and even then it wasn’t the easiest kite to fly. Several flyers also said that it was a great kite. I watched the Prism video countless times and figured out why it would be difficult for people who were use to flying the new style of trick kite. The Elixir requires very fluid like motions, not the yank and spank so to speak. When I first tried it with the usual pop or snap inputs it responded in a very poor fashion. But quickly I remembered the video and was soon rewarded with an almost new type of flying.
   I had the great privilege of flying with Mr. Mark Reed a few years back, during which he demonstrated to me why he put the heavy zig zag thread on the prism wrist strap leads. He said place your index fingers on this thread and feel the tension on the line. Then fly by it. I soon realized that I could control the kite more precisely through tricks and make the trick flow much smoother using this process. This method works better on the Elixir, Ozone and Vapor than anything else I have tried.

Define flying!  If you can comet an Elixir my hat is off to you.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: Imafloater on August 13, 2010, 08:01 AM
My screen name is Imafloater given to me by "serious kiters".  This came from not wanting to spend all my time at the field practicing and talking about how expensive my kite is, what my kite can do, who flys this kite, what bells and whistles this kite has with "serious kiters" who can't launch their kite and if they do can't land it.  When did kite flying stop being about flying a kite I like and having fun? Yeah, I want to learn tricks. Yeah, I want to learn more about kites.  I came here to have fun.  Maybe the demise of fighter kites is due to them not being expensive, can't do wild flip-floppy tricks, don't have bell and whistles, not that expensive (matter of fact cheap) but depend on a pilot who actually knows what they're doing and don't depend on what the kite could do without them.  Think I'll go to the convenience store spend $3.00 total get a kite and a soda and go have some fun.


Title: Re: When Did Kites Stop Flying?
Post by: lylenc on August 13, 2010, 07:37 PM
My wife likes to vacation at Manzanita, OR, which usually has high winds after 10 am. Before 10 am it's SUL time and bang, it switches straight to vented conditions. This year had at least three days of 30 mph + during the week. I used to get frustrated, since I didn't have anything for those winds. Have vented 1.5 Rev and vented Rev II now, so they keep me happy.

Before I bought those, I got desperate one day and pulled out my Trlby. The fiberglass rods bent a lot, but didn't break. The kite from my viewpoint looked more like an oval dinner plate than a diamond kite. I had a big smile on my face for several hours of flying. Had to laugh at myself - a bag with $2,000 worth of high-end kites at my feet and I'm having a blast with a $17 Trlby.

If you have enough variety in your bag, the kites keep flying - or not flying - as you choose. Although, I don't think I pulled off a center window stall with the Trlby in those winds.