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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Flying High on August 11, 2010, 01:10 AM



Title: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Flying High on August 11, 2010, 01:10 AM
I've been flying now for about 6 yrs I now have 29 kites, I would like know what everyone thinks about a complete set of kites. I hope this thread doesn't goes the same way as that $500 thread. Lol

Cheers

Keith


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: inewham on August 11, 2010, 01:57 AM
'Best set' is kind of subjective depending on the style of kite you like, what the wind is like where you fly, how much you want to spend etc.
So there is no best for everyone.

Full sets are usually competition oriented so potentially that can limit your choice. Personally I like the Mantis *as a set* because the Vented is adjustable and works very well, I like the std a lot too. The UL however, while fantastic in clean wind isn't quite as much fun as an Exile on my local turbulent park.

For fun I'll generally go for a variety freestyle kites which often aren't available in vented versions, even if there's a UL.

Some people speak very highly of the Fearless due to its wide wind range and say you can cover 2 to 30 in 2 kites, equally some don't like them but if thats your style of kite its something to consider.

The Nirvana, Quantum etc. all have great competition track records.

As ever people have their own preferences, has anyone you fly with got a full set? Which end of the wind range give you most trouble? With 29 in the bag are there any designers or kites you already have a preference for?



Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: bt on August 11, 2010, 02:24 AM
Quote
I've been flying now for about 6 yrs I now have 29 kites, I would like know what everyone thinks about a complete set of kites.
Well I think a complete set of kites is great!! Now about that $500......
I have (in dual mode) sul, ul, and standard sails, but no vented.... a 4ft flexi hot shot though... But none of them would be a set...ie the same kite in all versions?? The closest I can come is a pro dancer sul and ul....a complete set for us low wind folks.
The only complete set would be in my case....revs......2`s, 1.5`s, 1`s...sul, full sail, mid and full vented, frame combos galore...got it all covered.
Again in dual mode there is a set of 5 Blue Moon Mambas out there for sale as a set only..in one of the banners on the right side of the page.. And from what I understand from the Blue Moon and Mamba enthusiasts on this forum, this may well be THE COMPLETE set of kites.....unless you`re a dark sider....or like other brands of kites.
bt


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Flying High on August 11, 2010, 02:35 AM
Cheers Bt,
I have looked at that sellers kites before and I asked for a photo of what I would receive and alas to this day- about 3mths no reply. I was happy to pay the money, no problem, I just want to the other extra's that came with the package. That's life! Thank you for your reply.

Cheers
Keith 


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: jaybett on August 11, 2010, 02:42 AM
Another thing to consider, is your skill level. If you are still in the early stages of learning how to trick, then I'd suggest looking at the bag of the best fliers on the field.

I did this a while back and it turned out to be a great way to learn. Having people who is familiar with the type of problems you may experience on a kite, is a valuable resource.

Jay


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Flying High on August 11, 2010, 02:44 AM
Ian,
 

I have kites worth $100 to $600 and I live in Australia, just to find some one else who flies kites is well extremely rare. In all my time I think I have had two people in 6yrs who have asked me questions about stunt kites. I fly every week and in the last six months I have purchased kites that cost the earth but they do perform, so I don't mind spending the money but in the same breath i have a complete set of Flying wing -souls. Yes made in Taiwan but value for money they work. I fly every week but not in one location but within 1000klms from my home because of my work. I have 6 level one kites - a pleasure to fly but at the high end extremely expensive but that what you get for custom made and one off's[ Aust dollar Vs Euro not real good ], I have a Sano SSL Hybrid that is just amazing with a SSZ coming for Xmas. I look at kites globally and there is a balance of what I am prepared to pay to keep amazing addiction alive. LOL

Cheers
Keith


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: inewham on August 11, 2010, 03:02 AM
My personal advice is if you fly alone and don't compete, don't worry about a matched set just find something you're comfortable with in each wind range. They may be completely different kites, e.g. 4 liners can handle ballistic winds well or an old Psycho is fun to hack around, at the other extreme fighters are fun when there's almost no wind.

There are always compromises made to extend a standard kite to the extremes of the wind range added to which you generally have to go for competition oriented kites which tend to cost more, just so you can get a vent. Some people advocate sticking to one type but generally in order to progress in competition.

Enjoy the variety mate, week in week out practice on the same kites can kill the fun of it all; been there done that  ;)







Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: thief on August 11, 2010, 03:30 AM
Cheers Bt,
I have looked at that sellers kites before and I asked for a photo of what I would receive and alas to this day- about 3mths no reply. I was happy to pay the money, no problem, I just want to the other extra's that came with the package. That's life! Thank you for your reply.

Cheers
Keith 
are you saying that you tried getting a hold of Ken at Blue Moon and he did not get back to you after three months???   That is def. not Ken' practice.....i am guessing that something else happened.

the extras that come with the package?  most of the kites that you would be considering as a set will only come kite only....generally if you are purchasing a set of kites then you probably have the type of line (if not have it already) that you like, so why would a maker bump the price up to cover the cost of line (because they are not going offer up cheap lines with a boutique kite)....

you have a set of Souls?   I had heard that they did pretty well as a group of kites covering the wind range......

there a bunches of options out there........



Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: inewham on August 11, 2010, 04:07 AM
Not Ken, Charly Belassis has and ad up for a set of 5 with accessories


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Francois on August 11, 2010, 04:40 AM
I have 3 kites in my car for the last 4 months...A Talon set :P
Haven't needed anything else since then ;)


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: chilese on August 11, 2010, 05:15 AM
If competing, and that's the only reason I would buy a matched set:

One of the following:

Quantum Pro

Mamba

Mantis

The Soul vented is an excellent kite, but the venting doesn't allow enough high end wind speed at a slower kite pace.

The Fearless might be too high of an aspect ratio for competition, at least in my hands.

JMHO


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: DWayne on August 11, 2010, 05:31 AM
I'll say Cosmic TC's

Denny


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: cids on August 11, 2010, 05:32 AM
I've been flying now for about 6 yrs I now have 29 kites, .....

That's a lot of kites for one person.  Personally I fly only one kite(F STD with SUL US/3PT LS) from 4 km to 25 km. The kite can still tricks at even higher wind but I can't.  If you want to speed up the tricking process, you should fly only one 'good' kite or one set of kites from the same maker.  It is the muscle memory thing.  Too much of a good thing(too many kites) will mess up your muscle memory training and slow down your progress.  But if your goal is fun & variety, then you can pick the best UL/STD/Vented from different makers.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: zippy8 on August 11, 2010, 05:47 AM
OK, who had 13 replies before we got that response ? I had 10 so I wasn't far out.  ;D awwww... it went and got removed. :(

There aren't that many purely recreational kite sets all the way to vented. Apart from the Talon only the out-of-production Akuji springs to mind. The rest at least have some "competition ready" ring to them.

I can't imagine of any sane "best kite..." question where Nirvana isn't a pretty good response though.

Mike.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: tpatter on August 11, 2010, 08:54 AM
Fearless.


(hows that for a simple answer)


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: thief on August 11, 2010, 08:59 AM
Not Ken, Charly Belassis has and ad up for a set of 5 with accessories
that is a whole other kettle of fish then....


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: in.divi.dual on August 11, 2010, 09:19 AM
Fearless.


(hows that for a simple answer)

Yeah right, and you don't need a set - just the "Light Vented" - good for 3-28mph  8) 


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: adx1592 on August 11, 2010, 09:57 AM
sets? hrmn.

Mamba

Delta Drive

Nirvana

Althrough no vent, the Focus Jinx would be great for comp


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: KeithT on August 11, 2010, 10:01 AM
Althrough no vent, the Focus Jinx would be great for comp

Paul Debakker has a prototype vent  ;)



Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: tpatter on August 11, 2010, 10:11 AM
Fearless.


(hows that for a simple answer)

Yeah right, and you don't need a set - just the "Light Vented" - good for 3-28mph  8) 

You got it - ONE kite keeps it pretty simple!  :)


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: zippy8 on August 11, 2010, 11:52 AM
ONE kite keeps it pretty simple!  :)
But that wasn't the question, now was it ?  ;)

Mike.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Andy S on August 11, 2010, 01:11 PM
Best set? Soyokaze Akuji.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: tpatter on August 11, 2010, 02:09 PM
Longer answer......

My biggest issue with getting a set is that each kite in the set should fly reasonably similar to the others.  By that I mean that they should share the same tricking abilities, feel, strengths, input style - essentially, it should be the SAME kite just flying in DIFFERENT winds.  You learn the ins and outs of that kite and can use those skills regardless of SUL, UL, STD, or vent.  Each may have a minor accent, but they all should speak the same dialect.

Many kites, even ULs versus STDs don't pass this test - they sometimes share the name of the kite only it seems.  Oftentimes, the UL and vent may seem like they are from different planets.  No sense getting a set of a kite like this in my opinion - you may as well just pick different kites that you like in the UL, STD, Vent range. 

Aside from this, most vents are garbage - they feel like their feet are stuck in cement.

So, if this is a concern to you as well, be sure to try the full set of kites or at least ask folks that have them already as to how each version flys or you may be unhappily surprised.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Flying High on August 11, 2010, 04:07 PM
Thank you every one so far I can look at

1. Fearless
2. Mamba
3. Mantis
4. Soyokaze Akuji
5. Nivarna- I have notice the high volume of people are selling second hand kites
6. Talon
7. Quantum Pro - I already have two
8. Cosmic TC- exchange rates make it hard to buy kites from europe

I fly purely for pleasure but I spend most of my time trying the hardest tricks, I would to think I fly towards the competition level. I like the concept that with the set you get the same feel for each kite and then adjust accordingly for inputs depending upon the wind range.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: KaoS on August 11, 2010, 04:42 PM
Thank you every one so far I can look at

1. Fearless
2. Mamba
3. Mantis
4. Soyokaze Akuji
5. Nivarna- I have notice the high volume of people are selling second hand kites
6. Talon
7. Quantum Pro - I already have two
8. Cosmic TC- exchange rates make it hard to buy kites from europe

9. Rev 1.5 Pro series - standard, mid vent, full vent with race rods  ;D

It isn't a dark side, it's just another side


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Kantaxel on August 11, 2010, 04:50 PM
For my money it would be the Qpro...........All four fly the same throughout their respective wind range and the VVent can be tuned so to keep it flying up to thirty MPH with good speed control.  A must for comps.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: onlye on August 11, 2010, 05:20 PM
. . . I have 6 level one kites - a pleasure to fly but at the high end extremely expensive but that what you get for custom made and one off's[ Aust dollar Vs Euro not real good ]
Cheers
Keith

Which Level Ones do you have?
I have a Genesis SUL, UL and STD set.  Like them all but especially the UL.  Probably cause I prefer flying in its wind range most.  There is a vent in the Swap meet i'd like but need to sell some more kites first.

eric


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Lee S on August 11, 2010, 07:38 PM
The only "full" set of kites I've owned were Transfer XTRs, and as long as you didn't have to go out and buy them all at once you can probably still cobble together a set for not too high a price. I didn't really care for the variable vent on the XTR, I prefer the V.V. XTS. so if I had to do it again I'd probably try for a set of those.

If I had to buy a matching production set of kites I'd probably go right over to the right column and order up a set of JoE Talons.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: in.divi.dual on August 11, 2010, 07:59 PM
Vendetta's tho' there's no SUL as yet.

Cheaper than most of the above too.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Fast EDDY on August 11, 2010, 08:29 PM
Longer answer......

My biggest issue with getting a set is that each kite in the set should fly reasonably similar to the others.  By that I mean that they should share the same tricking abilities, feel, strengths, input style - essentially, it should be the SAME kite just flying in DIFFERENT winds.  You learn the ins and outs of that kite and can use those skills regardless of SUL, UL, STD, or vent.  Each may have a minor accent, but they all should speak the same dialect.

Many kites, even ULs versus STDs don't pass this test - they sometimes share the name of the kite only it seems.  Oftentimes, the UL and vent may seem like they are from different planets.  No sense getting a set of a kite like this in my opinion - you may as well just pick different kites that you like in the UL, STD, Vent range. 

Aside from this, most vents are garbage - they feel like their feet are stuck in cement.


  I can tell you this much. I have almost fully exact matched set of Q Pros  by Prism. Now Granted the Kite is well Dated and needs to be Updated and modernized a bit.  However. All 4 kites fly really alike. I will admit that you do need to bit a bit more timid with the SUL  than the V V. All of them have different nose angels and vary in the sails etc. So the Handling is almost the same.
  After having 2 Baby strokes the last two years etc. I pulled them out for the first time and started flying them in NOV '09. That set of kites has placed me in the Nationals this year and I am still learning to fly the kites each day. They are different in their flight characteristics. However the handling is very close to being alike. The wind range is 2-6 SUL 5-10 UL 8-15 REGULAR and Vented after that with Brakes etc up to 35 MPH on 500lb lines to slow it down. 
   YES I DID do that this year in Competition for the drag! 

  Mr ED


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: KeithG on August 11, 2010, 09:21 PM
Viper's, Vendetta's or Nirvana's, all three proven winners in the competition ring. Great blend of tricks and percision and all of them a heck of a lot of fun to fly even if you never compete.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: tpatter on August 11, 2010, 11:02 PM

I thought of another item here.  In addition to a nice sweet set that curls your toes, I think a bag also needs an indoor kite for those days when there is just no wind (0-1).

Now, I can pull my favorite tricky SUL around in a 360 in nothing for a time, but it ain't fun for the long haul.  I want to be able to slowly (very slowly) walk backwards, do tricks on the glide down, pinwheels, fades, 360s, that sort of thing.  You know, really fly.  Also, it comes in handy for days when the heat and humidity are up, the wind is no-where to be found and you want to relax and do some flying.

You just don't have full wind coverage if you don't have an indoor(ish) kite.  For this, I keep the iTrix for new tricks (and lately Prism 4D for floaty stuff).  I've also heard great things about the Pro-Dancer and would love to try that one.



Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: adx1592 on August 11, 2010, 11:14 PM
Tom, if we ever meet, I'd be happy to let you try mine.

My vote for the sets mentioned before in my post, and a PDSUL.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: tpatter on August 11, 2010, 11:22 PM
Tom, if we ever meet, I'd be happy to let you try mine.

My vote for the sets mentioned before in my post, and a PDSUL.

Thx - I appreciate the invite.  You can also try anything in my bag. :)

I make it to Chicago about once a year, I'll PM you next time I do.

-Tom


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Andy S on August 12, 2010, 12:47 AM

5. Nivarna- I have notice the high volume of people are selling second hand kites

People get them because they're so highly talked of by them that like them, then find they're not to their taste, so they sell them on. Personally I don't think the SUL or VTD had a consistent feel with the STD unlike some of the sets you can find these days.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Flying High on August 12, 2010, 08:06 AM
Which Level Ones do you have?
eric
[/quote]

I have a Genesis evo, Eternity standard, Eternity Limited edition, Extreme, Genesis Ul and Matzel edition JJF. The matzel is my favorite because this kite performs the hardest trick with ease and is extremely quick, so it makes you think. I think the set concept is good because there are days where you can fly the complete set and get that connection easier


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: onlye on August 13, 2010, 08:02 PM
Which Level Ones do you have?
eric

I have a Genesis evo, Eternity standard, Eternity Limited edition, Extreme, Genesis Ul and Matzel edition JJF. The matzel is my favorite because this kite performs the hardest trick with ease and is extremely quick, so it makes you think. I think the set concept is good because there are days where you can fly the complete set and get that connection easier
[/quote]

Nice collection of Level Ones (he says with envy).  How do you like the Eternity and is there any comparison to a Genesis?  You actually have a pretty nice rage with the Gen Evo and UL.


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: Flying High on August 14, 2010, 02:38 AM
Well it's like dis, I love the Gens and I love the Eternity's. Gens are a great sport kite with unlimited capability's within there jondra, the eternity does fly like a big JJF but S..t it's fun. Nice slow free flowing movements , capture fades at 8inches from the ground and fly the fade it's just great fun. I'm thinking of turning the limited edition to SUL but not yet. Cheers 


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: freestyle on August 14, 2010, 12:19 PM
Viper's, Vendetta's or Nirvana's, all three proven winners in the competition ring. Great blend of tricks and percision and all of them a heck of a lot of fun to fly even if you never compete.

Totally on board with that mate, I've got the Vendettas, well the three I can get right now until my man Shawn makes that SUL. They're in that all you ever need bracket.

I've also got the Next Up set which do not have a vented just a team but, once you get the hang of them... very nice indeed.

Cheers


Title: Re: Lets keep it simple- Best Ul- Best Std- Best Vented as a set
Post by: JimB on August 14, 2010, 09:02 PM
Have to say, if you simply must have a set of recreational kites and can't let go of the idea of a vented, this is about your only choice besides something from Level One. They've been doing full sets of a number of their rec designs for Years.

Really think hard about the vent though if you are not competing and if you are, there are many full sets for that purpose to choose from.

The Talons make a lot of sense for the hardcore rec flyer.


I have 3 kites in my car for the last 4 months...A Talon set :P
Haven't needed anything else since then ;)