GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: asburyparkjohn on October 16, 2010, 07:52 AM



Title: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: asburyparkjohn on October 16, 2010, 07:52 AM
Has anyone been here yet? Similar - Different?


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: tpatter on October 16, 2010, 10:15 AM
Quite different - the Transformer is pitchier (rolls up as easily as the standard and vent) than the Tattoo, but not as floaty.  The low wind range seems about the same, but the Transformer SUL can be flown higher.

I've never flown another SUL that has the same characteristics as the standard to the same degree as the Transformer does.  Aside from flying in super low wind, you would never guess that its an SUL by the way that it feels and flys.  If you like the TL, you will love its SUL version.  In fact, it could become your favorite - my son flys loves it in 5-6mph, and switches to the vent after that.


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: Dolphinboy on October 16, 2010, 01:47 PM
Tom, What do you feel is the main difference between the Vented & the Standard?


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: tpatter on October 16, 2010, 06:56 PM
Tom, What do you feel is the main difference between the Vented & the Standard?

The wind range and its a bit more turtle oriented.

I was flying my standard at Seaside this week in some pretty strong winds on Monday afternoon.  The standard was fine to fly, but it was pulling a bit and you had to move faster to trick it successfully.  I pulled the mid vent out and everything just smoothed out and slowed down - thats its primary advantage I'd say.  The vents do also seem to have a similar effect as they do on the Fearless Vented light - turtle gets more stable and it makes moves like the riser, multi lazy, and insane get even easier on the mid-vent (compared to the standard).

I've been experimenting lately with those extra 2 knots that Lam puts on the the uphaul.  I think the middle knot is best, but the lower knot makes the kite fly with more drive in lower winds and the upper makes it pull more according to your tastes.  I found the kite tricks very well at either setting, but I do prefer the middle knot overall.

-Tom


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: zippy8 on October 16, 2010, 08:30 PM
the main difference between the Vented & the Standard?
The holes in the sail ?  :o

I'm just guessing here.

Mike.


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: tpatter on October 16, 2010, 08:39 PM
the main difference between the Vented & the Standard?
The holes in the sail ?  :o

I'm just guessing here.

Mike.

Yes, that and some $85.  :)


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: asburyparkjohn on October 17, 2010, 06:30 PM
There is no doubt the Tranformer-TL is my favorite kite. Not too difficult since it only has to compete with my SD suite. But this is what I figured that it may indeed be the ultimate SUL so far that I may soon fly and DIFFERENT than the Tattoo. The Tattoo is great but it does not go through the JL without that special touch if you know what I mean and some extra effort which I mastered after about a month or two (took some time). The Tattoo is just a dream with a broken axel to the fade and then the  backspin and off course the multi-lazies. I do not believe the Transformer TL-SUL will have that problem with the JL or at least I am hoping this is the case. Any limitations with the SUL in your opinion as I mention in the JL category? In some ways I think Lam accidentally made a great kite - he made its smaller so it could be cheaper - but what has happened is that the RESPONSIVENESS of this kite is off-the-charts due to its smaller size. Agree TPATTER?


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: tpatter on October 17, 2010, 08:59 PM
The JL on the Transformer SUL is 100% the same as that of the TL - nothing is different except that you can do it in less wind. 

I have noticed that the flick-flack on the SUL is a touch (and I mean very very slightly) more sensitive than on the standard TL, but that is the only difference I can think to mention.  The standard just gives it away and so does the SUL, but due to less mass not with quite the same large margin of error.  In any case, its much easier than on the Tattoo which likes you to either stop before or at nose away, or give a nice relaxed lift if you over-flare it.

Its true that the Transformer is more responsive, but I still prefer the Fearless overall.  To me, that kite has a trick and flow elegance that puts me as close to heaven as I am likely to get while flying a kite.  :)
I like the Transformer for flat-out mad tricking which it excels at.

-Tom


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: Dolphinboy on October 17, 2010, 09:06 PM
Lam didn't make it small so that it would be cheaper. He made it smaller because many Fearless owners had asked him for a trick kite in this size. Simpler straight sewing makes it less expensive.

Also remember that the Fearless Tattoo is even lighter than the Fearless SUL. The difference in how they fly and trick is very pronounced. If there was a extra light Tattoo version of the Transformer it would probably behave different than the SUL too.


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: freecheese on October 18, 2010, 12:07 AM
I was shocked when I flew the Transformer SUL, it's not like any other SUL I've flown. I didn't even know it was an SUL at first, actually.

I do agree that the Fearless looks a little more elegant while tricking, but the Transformer is just plain fun.

Tom, I have never had much success pulling any fearless out of an over-flare. Then again, I'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to flick-flacks for some reason. Time for some remedial work!



Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: Fearless Object on October 18, 2010, 08:07 PM
Good morning from Viet Nam :) Just to let you guys know, some how the Chinese copy people has took some of mine kite pictures from site, they are begining to copy my Transformer kite, I don't know how, because they don't even have the kite or know the kite, only looking at the pictures. Mental people and drive me nuts.

Have a great day
Take care


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: Dolphinboy on October 18, 2010, 09:14 PM
I have heard that before there are some that can copy a kite from pictures only. If you can see the Icarex pattern, you could figure out the rough dimensions but it'll still be different.

I'll take the real thing, thank you.


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: Dolphinboy on October 20, 2010, 07:44 PM
O K, I spent some time on the Transformer SUL this eve  (thanks Tom) and it is very tricky for an SUL. Rolls up like the std. I like the Comete a bit better on the SUL but it does have a dead spot if you let the nose too high in the Pancake. So keep an eye on those Flic Flacs. JLs are super easy and it pulls right through from 1/2 Lazy to Fade. Because we were flying on the edge of a hill, it was kind of hard to judge some tricks but what a nice kite, I want one.

As far as the Transformer vs. Fearless Tattoo, these are very different in most regards. Even though it's plenty tricky, the Tattoo feels very much like you're flying a SUL and you can really tell it has less mass than a std. Except for the Pancake and a little lighter feel, the Transformer SUL is much more like it's std counterpart. As a matter of fact, my first thoughts were it was a std but after a few more tricks I could tell the difference.

Very nice.


Title: Re: Transformer vs Tattoo
Post by: tpatter on October 21, 2010, 05:07 PM
You are welcome James, it was fun in those light winds.  Gasworks does take some getting used to geography wise - you don't want to make any sudden unplanned lunges or you may find yourself rolling down a hill, twisting an ankle, or even in Elliot Bay!

-Tom