GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: cids on October 17, 2010, 01:07 PM



Title: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: cids on October 17, 2010, 01:07 PM
I just discarded(or replaced) my old regular 3PT and installed BD 3PT as lower spreaders in my F kite. It looks really nice. The finishing in the BD 3PT are amazing. The surface is extremely smooth and shiny. Just perfect. Now my bridle lines will last a long long time. :D :D :D


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: chilese on October 17, 2010, 01:16 PM
Discarded?

As in:
they aren't cracked or broken
they still could be used as a LE or on another kite
they're not smooth and shiny so I'll never want them
they're in the trash


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: cids on October 17, 2010, 02:12 PM
Quote
Discarded?
I think I'm using the wrong wording here. I mean replaced and use as back-up if the BD fail.


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: Francois on October 17, 2010, 03:35 PM
Quote
Discarded?
I think I'm using the wrong wording here. I mean replaced and use as back-up if the BD fail.

BD never fail...You can send me the others ;)


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: ko on October 17, 2010, 06:32 PM
Quote
Discarded?
I think I'm using the wrong wording here. I mean replaced and use as back-up if the BD fail.

BD never fail...You can send me the others ;)
PM sent LOL


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: tpatter on October 17, 2010, 10:12 PM
I thought about doing this myself, but instead just put a little moonie tape on the LS between and to the center of the standoffs and called it a day.  This prevents bridle wear due to the wraps in the spars.

I once suggested to Lam that he should switch to the BDs and he told me why he hasn't, but I can't completely recall his answer.  Are the BDs as strong as the skyshark rods?  It seems like they must have to sand and smooth them, which may make them thinner.

Lam's kites are not framed like many other kites - he typically seems to use lower pt ratings on the LEs and higher on the spreaders.  I think that strong spreaders are important to the design.

It's tough to break a 5pt - I am sure they will be fine.  Let us know how you like them.

-Tom


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: JimB on October 18, 2010, 12:30 AM
BDs are very nice looking and easy on bridles.

My only problem with them is they seem to be somewhat variable in weight and flex.

Standard PTs don't seem to suffer these variables to the same extent in my experience.

I use BDs but find I need to spend some time (and money) matching sticks.


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: sugarbaker on October 18, 2010, 01:13 AM
Are the BDs as strong as the skyshark rods?  It seems like they must have to sand and smooth them, which may make them thinner.

comparing 3pt to 3ptBD... the outer diameter is .005mm thinner on the large end and stays the same at the small end.  Overall, this saves .5 grams (12.5 vs 12). specs are available at Skyburner's website at right.

The sanding removes very little material it seems and the inner diameter stats remain the same.   


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: zippy8 on October 18, 2010, 01:43 AM
Quote from: JimB
My only problem with them is they seem to be somewhat variable in weight and flex.

Quote from: sugarbaker
specs are available at Skyburner's website

I looked into variability in spars (http://fracturedaxel.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4599&hilit=spar) a while ago.  :-[ I'd view the manufacturer's numbers as no more than a guide.

Black Diamond spars are nice 'n' shiny and if you are having wear problems, spar vs. bridle, then why not.

Mike.


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: Will Sturdy on October 18, 2010, 08:55 AM

To make a spar like this, the carbon is layed up around a mandrel. The spar is then wrapped in a thin tape to compress the fibres together, and then it is cooked to cure the epoxy. Once the tape is removed, it leaves behind those ridges which are composed mostly out of excess epoxy I believe (not totally sure on that though). They don't contribute much structurally to the spar, although they do leave weight.
To make the black diamond spars, the standard spars are sanded down to a smooth surface and then clearcoated. So yes they are a bit lighter and they have a bit thinner walls, but structurally they are basically the same. I suppose that it does add another variable into the manufacturing process, but if you are really concerned about matching spars perfectly you will have to go through some intense testing processes anyways since it's well nigh impossible to manufacture all spars identically.

And I'd love to meet the lflier good enough to be able to tell the difference between spars in flight.


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: fidelio on October 18, 2010, 11:49 AM
And I'd love to meet the flier good enough to be able to tell the difference between spars in flight.

right here ... i can almost always tell the difference during flight between the broken and non-broken ones. 8)


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: Gamelord on October 18, 2010, 12:34 PM
I purposely find spars that are not the same weight.  That way if I screw up a trick I can then explain to all my friends that the reason is not my totally awesome mind blowing skills, instead it is that extra fraction of a milligram of weight on the left lower spreader that is the culprit.

I am not certain, but I thought that the BD rods are built from a different modulus carbon material than the normal rods?  Perhaps the master John T. can clarify this.

Regardless, the BD rods are a huge step up in the sexyness department and will get you more chicks when you fly them.

The above claims of increased chicks have not been verified by the FDA or the AKA nor are they endorsed by the poster or this forum.  BD spars are not designed to treat hair loss, poor fashion choices, odors, balding, bad toupee's or over-sized beer bellies.  Results may vary depending on the light of day and intelligent level of the chicks being attracted.  Use only as directed and at your own risk.


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: JimB on October 18, 2010, 02:21 PM
It's not any secret that, in general, most spars used for kiting applications are re-purposed and seconds.

Icone and Aerostuff may be somewhat better in this regard at a price.

Quote from: JimB
My only problem with them is they seem to be somewhat variable in weight and flex.

Quote from: sugarbaker
specs are available at Skyburner's website

I looked into variability in spars ([url]http://fracturedaxel.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4599&hilit=spar[/url]) a while ago.  :-[ I'd view the manufacturer's numbers as no more than a guide.

Black Diamond spars are nice 'n' shiny and if you are having wear problems, spar vs. bridle, then why not.

Mike.


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: KaoS on October 18, 2010, 03:22 PM

BD never fail...You can send me the others ;)

Yes they do!  In the past 3 months I've broken two BD Nitro lower spreaders when doing aggressive Flapjacks.  Both times they snapped in between the standoffs!  Not the fault of the rod, I was flying to some funky music at the time and got carried away  :D


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: mikenchico on October 18, 2010, 05:17 PM
Removing the ridges from the wrapping process should remove all those little stress risers at each junction of thicker to thinner, John C is our engineer maybe he can explain stress risers. Theoretically though the sanded spars should be more durable.



Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: chilese on October 18, 2010, 05:51 PM
Stress risers are most significant at corners, welds, connections, etc.
The bigger the change, the more significant the stress riser.

Just as plugging the small end of a spar can significantly increase the allowable load, sealing a cardboard box with tape can make it strong enough to stand on. Don't try that with an open ended box.

Stress risers along the length are pretty much insignificant compared to other items like the standoffs, where the ferrule at the center T ends in the female lower spreader and if the LS is fully seated into the leading edge connector.

Walk around your house and you'll probably see cracks emanating from the corners of void areas like windows, door frames and walkthroughs.

Hope that helps.

Even rounding the edges of your spars a bit will help their life expectancy.

The Infinity comes with plugged ends on the lower spreaders. Pretty cool in a not super high priced kite.  :)


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: JimB on October 19, 2010, 12:19 AM
I've managed to break BD Nitros a couple of times being a little too aggressive with them. They are quite stiff and a bit brittle. Great stick however.

The PTs seem to take more abuse but then they are not as stiff.


BD never fail...You can send me the others ;)

Yes they do!  In the past 3 months I've broken two BD Nitro lower spreaders when doing aggressive Flapjacks.  Both times they snapped in between the standoffs!  Not the fault of the rod, I was flying to some funky music at the time and got carried away  :D


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT ... so nice !!!
Post by: cids on October 25, 2010, 08:20 PM
Black Diamond 3PT

So far, no problem.  :D :D :D


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: indigo_wolf on October 28, 2010, 09:42 AM
Regardless, the BD rods are a huge step up in the sexyness department and will get you more chicks when you fly them.

The above claims of increased chicks have not been verified by the FDA or the AKA nor are they endorsed by the poster or this forum.  BD spars are not designed to treat hair loss, poor fashion choices, odors, balding, bad toupee's or over-sized beer bellies.  Results may vary depending on the light of day and intelligent level of the chicks being attracted.  Use only as directed and at your own risk.

I thought it was the large buggy with big honkin' tires that attracted the chicks.  And the really shiny buggies could sometimes offset the "hair loss, poor fashion choices, odors, balding, bad toupee's or over-sized beer bellies" if the sun was glinting off the polished frame just right.  

Heard there are even pictures floating around  ::)

ATB,
Sam

P.S.  Sorry.... couldn't resist  :D


Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: Gamelord on October 28, 2010, 11:48 AM
Ya mean this picture Sam?  ???

Gotta have the bling!

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Title: Re: Black Diamond 3PT...so nice !!!
Post by: indigo_wolf on October 28, 2010, 11:59 AM
Hmmm.... so hard to choose.  ::)

ATB,
Sam

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