GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: Svolazzo on November 16, 2010, 04:02 PM



Title: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on November 16, 2010, 04:02 PM
Here I'm with my last creation, the B'zar 2010 framed as STD. I made some changes at the original project making it all in icarex without the four mylar panels, just because I liked more in this pattern and also to save some weight. I also made a "custom" frame: LE in P2X (ULE) and P3X (LLE), spine and US in Structil 6mm, LS in 5PT, weight 20gr.
I haven't flown it yet because the weather is very bad and rainy  :'(  , hope some better in next week(s)....can't wait to fly it  :)
You can see some closeups of the building process besides the whole kite, hope you like them  ;)
I'm going to finish the UL in a few days, so be patient and you'll see it too  ;D

Paolo.


(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/45143/2034345190105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2034345190105122638Ftqbjf)

(http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/46820/2857805140105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2857805140105122638GUcxDn)

(http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/45234/2493847770105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2493847770105122638qMFlfY)

(http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/44496/2524648400105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2524648400105122638lDeyto)

(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/42365/2791700790105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2791700790105122638vtigJb)

(http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/47887/2916881300105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2916881300105122638ghjVWk)

(http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/45910/2702596420105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2702596420105122638ncjEBR)

(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/25281/2463204140105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2463204140105122638IbaiSH)

(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/42973/2581634530105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2581634530105122638VjfDqL)

(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/20216/2453879150105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2453879150105122638CvQFiX)

(http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/40740/2899970700105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2899970700105122638naOPdQ)

(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/44979/2623998660105122638S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2623998660105122638nRLHbG)


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: adx1592 on November 16, 2010, 04:32 PM
AWESOME job!  :)

Looks great.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: tempest on November 16, 2010, 07:17 PM
+1
         and eager to know how it flies ...


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: JimB on November 16, 2010, 07:45 PM
Once again.. Nice work!

:)


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: chilese on November 16, 2010, 07:56 PM
That nose is an example of a simple design executed perfectly.  :)


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: sugarbaker on November 16, 2010, 08:52 PM
it appears that we are building all of the same kites... I'm just now finishing my organics!  Your B'zar looks excellent.  Whats next on your to-do list?


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: coogee on November 17, 2010, 01:41 AM
Very good question! What is next on the to do list?
     Mike


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: tempest on November 17, 2010, 05:29 AM
I would think to  FLY  FLY  FLY  .......  :D  :D


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on November 17, 2010, 07:28 AM
it appears that we are building all of the same kites... I'm just now finishing my organics!  Your B'zar looks excellent.  Whats next on your to-do list?

Yes maybe just because the Organic, Vortex and B'zar are the finest kite projects for free around the world, at least as I know. 

Very good question! What is next on the to do list?
     Mike

What else?.... good question, actually I don't know what I could build now, any suggestion on a good project? There is the Virus still by Mr Derefat, but it's a bit older compared with the Organic or Vortex. Worth it? I saw also the Fluid but watching some footages on youtube it seems to be a little "heavy" in flight, is there somebody who tested it, or any review out there?

I would think to  FLY  FLY  FLY  .......  :D  :D

Fly them.....it sounds like a great idea  :D ......but you can still build by night and fly by day! :D :D ;)

Paolo.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: sugarbaker on November 17, 2010, 09:14 AM
have you considered designing your own kite at this point? 


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on November 18, 2010, 10:08 AM
have you considered designing your own kite at this point? 

In truth the thought has passed into my mind, but I don't know if I would be able to start a project starting from a white sheet. I should also develope the design with a lot of testing samples. I think it will be going to be a very expansive and time consuming process, at least for now I give up. By the way I just read on a French forum that Mr Derefat is going to develope a new project for the next season, I'll keep tuned to see if and when he will show it and if he will share with us the new toy.
Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on November 18, 2010, 10:49 AM
Wow, outstanding building quality!!!  congratulations !!! I hope you will enjoy flying it. Please let me know if there are any questions on flying behaviour or bridle-tuning.
I am working already on the 2011 version but it is still in progress. I will keep you informed on this.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on November 22, 2010, 02:43 AM
Werner, getting such words from one of the fathers of the kite is a great gratification, thank you so much!
As soon as the weather will get better I'll fly it and let you know my impressions. I have already built a tunable bridle, starting from the original settings as standard but with the possibility to have a pure 3 legs, and a variable turbo into 3 positions till 5cm long.
Yesterday night I have finished the UL, as soon as I'll shot some pictures I'll post a new thread.
I'm looking forward to hear news from you about the 2011 version.
Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: positivo on November 22, 2010, 02:48 AM
Nice sewing with good attention to detail, you can be proud of your kite!
Now go out and fly it!   ;)

ps: just added a picture of your kite to Werners webpage


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on November 22, 2010, 04:20 AM
about the bridle, I think it is a good idea to play with those different possibilities. Normally the B'zar is a polyvalent kite that does every trick without losing too much precision. Changing the bridle configuration and setting will make it possible to tune this kite towards your own style of kiting. Did you see already on the website the activator line we added between the upperleg and innerleg? Its worth trying that one too!!
Let me know what you think about it.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on November 23, 2010, 07:44 AM
Positivo, I saw the picture you added on the website, thank you so much!
Werner, yes I have seen the activator bridle and I'm planning to use it, but I would like to test the kite without it at first and then install the activator to see the difference. The harder thing now is to have some days without rain here, to get out and fly!  :(  :'(
Paolo.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on December 23, 2010, 06:41 AM
Did you already had a chance of flying your B'zars? I'm anxious to know what you think about them


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on December 23, 2010, 08:03 AM
Hi Werner, I posted some very, very first impressions in the UL thread some days ago, maybe you just miss them, however, no problem, here they are.
I flown only the STD a couple of times, the second time wind was a little high but not too much, I set the turbo to 5cm that seems to work better in my hands, however I'll test also the other settings. My very first impression is that it's very tricky but also precise, but needs sharper and firmer imputs to trick, compared with the two kites I usually fly, the NSE and K2, for instance passing from a fade to a turtle for a JL. I noticed also that it's very noisy,  but in truth I haven't passed the leech line. So, is it in your opinion better to add it (if I'll succeed in putting it through now) and tighten it a bit? If yes, tighten the trailng edge, w'ont lead the kite to lose something in trickability, precision or drive and to increase too much speed and pull? In a word, does it worth passing the leech line through?
Is in your opinion, this behaviour due to the differeces I made on sail (no mylar) and/or in the frame, or is it just due to me, having still to adjust my input to join its flying features?
About the UL I haven't still flown it: I haven't had suitable wind for it till now.
I bridled it as the STD before you posted new measurements, so for now I'll give it a go with that bridle just to see how it flies, then I'll tie a set of new bridle as you stated to have a comparison.
Definitely I have to test them further to get a more complete feeling.

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on December 24, 2010, 12:07 AM
I would suggest to put a leechline in the trailing edge. I experienced a big difference in some kites, I never flew a B'zar without one. However, the tension on the leechline is important, to tight will influence the trickability negatively. I always tension it just untill it is silent in straight forward flight and makes a little noise in sharp corners or fast spins.
I hope you can enjoy them a lot in 2011
Best wishes and happy new year


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on December 24, 2010, 03:54 AM
Thanks Werner, and what about the differences I made in the sail and in the frame on the behavuior? Do you think I would swich to the original frameset or is mine (ULE P2X - LLE P3X, spine and US 6mm - LS 5PT) good enough?

My best whishes of Merry Christmas and happy 2011!

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Baws on December 26, 2010, 07:14 AM
I'm building a STD model in Red, White, Blue and I have a question. On Werner's web, site it states  "The weight at the tail sits completely inside the spine"  could someone elaborate(pics)?  Also in the picture of the bridle there seems too be a large knot at the turbo area, are there any more detailed pictures available?
Thanks, any help would be appreciated!


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: cojack_2107 on December 26, 2010, 08:56 AM
Basicly u could use a copper pipe in a size of 6mm.. glue it to the end nocks... or you could just use hex nuts just like Will use on his saber II.. its your own preference... its ur build anyway.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: mikenchico on December 26, 2010, 12:03 PM
Some people use Hinge Pins from doors hinges, any hardware will carry them, or used from your habitat store. Just cut them to length depending on the weight you want leaving the head on which will then act as the cap on your spine.



Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: tpatter on December 26, 2010, 12:43 PM
You can also use a bolt shaft - inserted inside the spine.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on December 27, 2010, 12:40 PM
Paolo, I don't think the differences in the sail will be important, I see everything is very well build and looks real precise and nice. Your choice for the frame looks fine to me,  maybe this frame will add a few grams to the original one. So the difference with your UL will be bigger and that's good I think.
Most important is this leechline!

@tailweight: you can use brass rods or steel rods in a diameter of 6 mm wich can be glued into a splitnock
If you use a P-series as a spine, this will fit.


 


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on December 27, 2010, 03:18 PM
Many thanks Werner, I'm going to pass the leechline and look forward to see the difference, then I'll let you know.

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: cojack_2107 on December 29, 2010, 09:04 AM
I have a question. I have built dual line kites twice, and both i used seatbelt webbing as the nose piece. Practically i hate using it as it is hard for me to sew on it. I ahd trouble on both my build. I would like to know what is the material used on the nose of a kitehouse kites and TNT's. Looks sleek and neat. Seems to be quite waterproof as well. will i be able to purchase it somewhere??


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Baws on December 29, 2010, 09:21 PM
Thanks for the help! I made a weight system out of a brass rod from a toilet bowl float. with 2 cuts I have a 20g, 15g and 10g.



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Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on December 30, 2010, 05:48 AM
I have a question. I have built dual line kites twice, and both i used seatbelt webbing as the nose piece. Practically i hate using it as it is hard for me to sew on it. I ahd trouble on both my build. I would like to know what is the material used on the nose of a kitehouse kites and TNT's. Looks sleek and neat. Seems to be quite waterproof as well. will i be able to purchase it somewhere??


I use this webbing from our gracious host's webshop  http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=261 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=261) It's strong enough to stand the stress but very easy to sew, never had a problem sewing it. Maybe you could also use some cordura cloth form a bags factory or cloths shop. Hope this help.

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: cojack_2107 on December 30, 2010, 06:33 AM
Quote
I use this webbing from our gracious host's webshop  [url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=261[/url] ([url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=261[/url]) It's strong enough to stand the stress but very easy to sew, never had a problem sewing it. Maybe you could also use some cordura cloth form a bags factory or cloths shop. Hope this help.

Paolo


Thanks Paolo. Is it the same one you used on your B'zar build?


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on December 30, 2010, 06:37 AM
Yes, it's the same I used in all the kites I made

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: cojack_2107 on December 30, 2010, 06:41 AM
I've browse through the link. Apparently, it says 2inch is polyester and 3inch is nylon. Which you used and Which should i choose?


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on December 30, 2010, 07:20 AM
I used the 3inch one that is said to be a little thinner then the 2inch one. It's very easy to saw indeed, however I think that also the 2inch, being 0,04 inch thick (1mm), should be relatively easy to work.

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: mikenchico on December 30, 2010, 07:36 AM
The European's are using "Dolly (or Lorrie?) Curtain Fabric" that's the tarps used to enclose truck trailers with open sides. Don't know of a source for it in small amounts.

Cordura works well, for an easy supply check your second hand stores for old luggage or a heavy backpack, hot cut it to shape to seal the edges.



Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: cojack_2107 on December 30, 2010, 08:29 AM
The European's are using "Dolly (or Lorrie?) Curtain Fabric" that's the tarps used to enclose truck trailers with open sides. Don't know of a source for it in small amounts.

Cordura works well, for an easy supply check your second hand stores for old luggage or a heavy backpack, hot cut it to shape to seal the edges.



If i remember correctly.. it is called pvc coated tarpulin right?. Well i google through and found pvc coated cordura.. would it be suitable to be used as a nose piece?


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: mikenchico on December 30, 2010, 10:32 AM
Sounds like it would be fine, some of the Cordura's have an inside coating for waterproofing I wonder if that is what you've found, it's often a silvery color. There may be some with an external coating like the tarpulin fabrics if you like that look. That's a personal taste, I didn't but checking out Denny's TNT's that stuff definately looks pretty bulletproof and with the coating may not require hot cutting to keep from fraying. That's the problem with Cordura off a large panel, you have to hot cut and it leaves a very hard edge that really pops if you hit it with the sewing machine needle and I've had it cut the thread, that's why I usually prefer something with a finished edge like the webbing GWTW sells.


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on January 19, 2011, 10:40 AM
Did you have a chance of flying it a little longer? Would you share your opinion about this kite with us?
Thanks!


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on January 19, 2011, 03:17 PM
Werner, I have been a little busy with work lately, however I succeeded in passing the leach line and I'm going to make the activator tomorrow, then if weather will help I'll fly it in it's definitive configuration this weekend and I'll let you know my impressions.

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on February 07, 2011, 06:06 AM
Is it still raining in Italy? I hope not. Did you have the oportunity to fly your B'zar yet?


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: Svolazzo on February 07, 2011, 04:03 PM
Werner, weather is getting better finally, this weekend I went to my mother in law, but unfortunately I forgot at home the B'zar......too many kites and too many kite bags, so I made some confusion when I chose the kites to put in.....arghhh....I hope you'll forgive me. I promise to fly the B'zar this weekend if weather will help yet.

Paolo


Title: Re: A new baby, the B'zar 2010
Post by: werner on February 08, 2011, 04:59 AM
I hope you enjoy it!! Just keep me informed please.