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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: werner on January 06, 2011, 05:41 AM



Title: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 06, 2011, 05:41 AM
As a result of a lot of trail and error I can ( proudly  ;) ) announce the new B'zar 2011. Key word for this model is broadseaming. By adding a little sailcloth to the theoretical seam you become a sail with an internal camber. In order to spread this camber in a logical way into the sail I had to rework the panel-layout.

The idea is to add some volume in the section right under the leading edge from nose to lower apa connector. This volume is locked into the seam and can not be reduced by to much tension at the wingtip for example.

There is also a curved seam in the middle of the sail at the spine. Not only from center T to the tail, that is generally known in most of the available plans but also from center T to the nose. This seam follows a natural swanneck(?)shape a spine tends to take if a kite is set up. This avoids that volumes determined by the broadseaming would be influenced by the deformation of the spine.

At last, I added some volume in a seam going from the inner standoff to the center T. Normally the sail is always very tight in this section, you usually see a wrinkle there. By adding some cloth in the seam you keep a curved shape of the sail in stead of a flat one.

I will come with some foto's soon.




Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: cojack_2107 on January 06, 2011, 07:14 AM
This is what i've been waiting for. I've hold my urge to build the 2010 version and wait for the 2011 version after i've heard that you are working on it. Can't wait for the pictures and maybe a video of it. With all the add ons, the wingspan of the kite is still the same or roughly gonna be alittle wider??


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: mikenchico on January 06, 2011, 07:27 AM
Incorporating a couple of the idea's I've had rolling around in my head, I'll be anxious to see how you've done it since I haven't figured out or prototyped any of them yet.

Please pass on your thoughts of the benifits of these modifications, do you think they widened the wind range? Helped or worsed edge handling, precision, any of the tricks etc? Really looking forward to your flight opinions.



Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: Svolazzo on January 06, 2011, 02:07 PM
Amazing Werner! It looks like you have managed some great ideas, I'm looking forward to see pictures, a video and plans too  ;) ;)

Paolo.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 07, 2011, 04:26 AM
Some pictures of the B'zar 2011


[attachments older than 90 days deleted by admin]


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: cojack_2107 on January 07, 2011, 04:29 AM
Wow. looks great!! like the design.. Simple and neat!! How's the flying?? When is the plan coming up?? can't wait for the review!!! Awesome job Werner!!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 07, 2011, 04:38 AM
The first picture gives an idea about the panel lay-out, the seam starting at the nose has the extra cloth, and the seam starting above the center T going to the inner standoff also.
The second and third picture illustrate the curve of the spine wich is integrated in the central seam.

Before releasing a plan I just have to do some minor corrections coming out of the last tests. I think I will manage this in the days to come. The final version can be found soon on "tweelijners.be"

Some info about frame:
LE: P200 upper and lower
US: 6 mm pultruded
LS: Black Diamond Nitro Strong
Spine: P2X

Weight: 25 grams in tail

Bridle: Tri-axis turbobridle


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: cojack_2107 on January 07, 2011, 04:46 AM
What bout the wingspan?? from all the sail add ons i would guess it would alittle wider.. roughly around 1.35 or 1.4m?


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 07, 2011, 04:52 AM
About the flying: I hope a video will be available soon. Maybe this sunday or next week.
I find it difficult to discribe the flying but all I can say is that it tracks very well it can fly very sharp corners it flies in no less than 5 km / u, up to 20 km / u
Trick rating:
rotational moves, 540's axel etc: +++
lazy suzans: single or multi: ++++
Tazz machines: ++++
Backspin: also cascades: +++
Comete: ++ goes in a turtle while cometing if not good executed
Yoyo: +++
Slide and stall: ++++
JL: +++


In my opinion it is the most trickable precisionkite I know


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 07, 2011, 04:55 AM
wingspan is 2.35 m almost the same as the 2010 model. The extra sailcloth adds volume to the kite between fixed points so it doesn't effect the overall size


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: mikenchico on January 07, 2011, 07:21 AM
Sweet! Do you have those pictures uploaded to any other site where we could see a larger size so we could zoom in on some details? The GWTW pic post feature is great to have but the size limit doesn't allow much detail. Interested in the nose area, construction and the results of that added fabric. If I ever get a chance to build something soon this is moving to the top of the list right after a glider type SLK.



Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 07, 2011, 02:02 PM
extra picture of the seam starting from the nose
I hope to have a link soon where you can see more pictures in high resolution

[attachments older than 90 days deleted by admin]


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: JimB on January 07, 2011, 10:47 PM
Handsome kite.

Congratulations!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on January 08, 2011, 07:10 AM
I am excited for this new bzar. I am pleased with the look of the new sail layout, and I fully intend on making this kite as soon as your plan is available. (was actually going to start another 2010 version build, but like the new layout so much that I'm going to wait for the new plans.). Thanks Werner for posting your plans for the public.  I love that I can build these exceptional kites for myself. It's so satisfying to fly something made by my own hand that out performs many of my purchased kites.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: stapp59 on January 08, 2011, 07:31 AM
This looks very interesting.  Thanks for your work!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: Svolazzo on January 08, 2011, 09:55 AM
Werner, can you tell us the advantages of making the broadseamings you introduced in the new B'zar and how that increased volume and internal chamber will affect the flight?

Paolo


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 10, 2011, 02:45 AM
The comments that will follow are not scientifically proved, these are just the results of some experiments with broadseaming combined with the experience of kitebuilding for 15 years now. It is rather complex to understand what the effects are of adding volume in some parts of a kitesail.
Generally the more billow you have the more lift is created in that part of the sail. Depending on which part of the sail we are talking about the effects will be different. In the nose section more billow means more lift that is more tracking capabilities, more precision, more tension and respons on the lines in normal flight.
When in a fade this extra cloth will invert and form a billow that helps to hold the fade, easier backspins, backspincascades etc...
For pitchcontrolled moves I can't say if there is an advantage. I think much depends on the depth of that billow, here is some work to do.
When the kite does a lazy suzan this nose-billow will act aerodynamically and will pull the nose down, pulling the kite in an even deeper backflip
All these effects are known by a lot of kitebuilders and most of them will use the curve of the leading edge to induce a billow in the nose. Even in some older designs as the Aeri FX and the Matrix  the billow was a combination of broadseaming and external cambering.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 10, 2011, 04:17 AM
As a complement of the message above I would say that broadseaming locks the billow on a particular place in the sail. So if you adapt the panellayout to the sections that are involved you can create an accurate billow in a specific area. This billow will be independant of for example wingtiptensioning or frame deformation. Using external cambering via a curve on the leading edge or spine will lead to a billow that is situated in the proximity of this frame-elements. So if you like to have it in the middle of the sailsurface than this broadseaming is an intresting solution.

In flight you can usually feel this extra lift as an extension of windrange in the lower windspeeds, a feeling of aerodynamical efficiency because the kite picks up every little bit of wind and transforms it into power. 


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: Ca Ike on January 14, 2011, 05:09 PM
Hey Werner nice info in your last post thanks.  I get a bit confused though because it seems some kite makers equate billow with sail depth. HOw do you differentiate between the two and which do you prefer to use?


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 16, 2011, 09:12 AM
I tried to look this up and indeed the word billow as a noun is not that common. I think 3 dimensional sail depth would be better.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: Ca Ike on January 16, 2011, 12:43 PM
I tried to look this up and indeed the word billow as a noun is not that common. I think 3 dimensional sail depth would be better.
  That might work.  From what I have read sail depth is supposed to refer to the amount the sail is pushed out by the standoffs and billow is suposed to refer to how much the sail is allowed to be formed by wind pressure to create the desired aero foil shape.  I have a kite that has a lot of billow from LS to nose and somewhat centered on the wing as well as a deep sail TE profile and it really seems to be a slug in performance.  Weak turtle based tricks(needs to back flip 130deg to get into a turtle and falls out easily without inputs), slow speed and needs easily 4 mph over its stated low wind range just to fly reliably. Have you experienced this in any stages of your designs and is there any way to adjust the billow/sail depth after the kite is made without redoing the sail?


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 18, 2011, 04:01 AM
There is not one truth in this context. Without pictures and/ or a video of your kite I can't do any suggestions.
Nevertheless, adjusting the sail depth is fairly simple by increasing the aspect-ratio You can do this by shifting the center T to a higher position Then you adjust the LS connectors in order to have the LS horizontal again.   


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: Ca Ike on January 18, 2011, 06:26 PM
There is not one truth in this context. Without pictures and/ or a video of your kite I can't do any suggestions.
Nevertheless, adjusting the sail depth is fairly simple by increasing the aspect-ratio You can do this by shifting the center T to a higher position Then you adjust the LS connectors in order to have the LS horizontal again.   
  THANKS  I have a couple old beginner kites I'm going to tinker on before I start tweaking the higher end kite I have in mind.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: cojack_2107 on January 21, 2011, 05:49 AM
Any news or update yet on the B'zar?? Can't wait to know how it goes or when it will go public.   ;D


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on January 23, 2011, 09:01 AM
I just did some testflying on the 2011. I know now for sure that a leechline is important and also the tension on it. It seems to me that a tension that gives a light buzz in sharp corners is ideal. Straight forward flight is silent. I also shortened the length of the outer standoff with 2 mm and played with tailweight to tune the tazz-ability. At last I tried to make the 2011 more pitchy for easy yoyo and yofades by adjusting the bridle. I need just one testflight to be sure and than it will be released!!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: cojack_2107 on January 23, 2011, 09:25 AM
take your time mate... hopefully it turns out great for you.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on January 25, 2011, 08:44 PM
I will admit that I am like a kid at Christmas with anticipation for the new plans. 


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on February 07, 2011, 06:02 AM
Latest test resulted in the final settings of standoffs and bridle!! Btw it has become a crossed activated bridle kind a gemini UL. I hope to put a short video on this forum later this week. Everything will be prepared to release in the next week.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on February 07, 2011, 06:56 AM
can't wait.  too bad I'm moving to a new place over the next couple weeks... all kite making is on hold til middle of March.  I'm happy to know that plans are on their way! 


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: thief on February 07, 2011, 08:35 AM
sb: think of your hiatus as the perfect amount of time for someone else to try the first build..and if they find errors it is not your Icky you lose out on!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on February 24, 2011, 08:44 AM
Hey Werner, any updates or videos?  Still eagerly waiting for the new plans! Hope your testing is going well.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: cojack_2107 on February 27, 2011, 06:40 AM
Hi werner how the final setting been doing?? can't wait to see a vid or update on the kite though...


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on March 03, 2011, 09:47 AM
Werner... I am so excited for the new plans that I check your website almost everyday... and what did I see today? A video and place holder for B'zar 2011.  I hope you don't mind me posting this link, but I can hardly contain myself.  It will be the first kite I build for 2011.  (well, actually not as I've started working on my own sail pattern for a new Thornback II by Ian, but I'm equally excited about the B'zar). 


http://www.tweelijners.com/werner/index-2011-en.html (http://www.tweelijners.com/werner/index-2011-en.html)


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: positivo on March 03, 2011, 11:06 AM
It shouldn't be too long before the plans are available so I can adapt the websites.
Last Sunday I made some short movies of the kite and couldn't resist to make a short 'teaser' video  :-)

Here's the direct link to that video:  Untitled (http://vimeo.com/20482137)

btw: the guy on the video in the first seconds is the designer himself: Werner!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on March 20, 2011, 11:38 PM
wondering if you will be posting a full size poster when plans are ready... I've set aside some fabric and am ready to go!  hope the plans will be ready soon. then all I'll need is some good weather when I finish the kite!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on March 22, 2011, 03:12 PM
Yesterday I was on the beach with two friends flying the B'zar 2011 Although there was little wind the kite did fly as if it was an UL so I am very pleased with the results. Frank shot some pictures and put them on the website of www.tweelijners.be (http://www.tweelijners.be) He also did a lot of filming on this large beach and blue sky. He is now editing the material into a nice video I may hope. I asked Nils to finish the plans and I will post all the info to Positivo who will put it all together on my site. So you see this is a result of a whole team!!
For all those who are waiting I have to warn you guys, this is a kite with broadseaming in a curved seam so take care while constructing. It must be done very precisely because we talk about millimeters. But, if you succeed, i promise you a very nice kite that will do a whole lot of tricks with ease, a large windrange starting in 6 km/h going to 18 km/h, very flat tazz-machines, even doubles ( ask Nils for that )nice multislots, lifters, cyniques, a good pitchbehaviour with one pop and two pop yoyo's etc... I hope that video will be released soon. It took me a little to long, I know, sorry for that but I hope you will enjoy it!!
I will be working on a UL version during this season and probably a vented too because next year there will not be a new model of the B'zar. I experienced that creating something new that not only is different but also has enough improvements as a whole takes more than one season. 
I hope to see a lot of new B'zars 2011 on the forums all over the world. Last posted kitepic was of a 2010 on a white blanket of snow and made in Moskow!! It really makes me happy to feel the enthousiasm that all  kitebuilders show towards our Belgian kitemodels. Have fun!!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: Untitled on March 27, 2011, 06:44 PM
So was just looking at what it was framed in and was wondering what center T was used?  was it a 7x6 r-sky T with the 6mm drilled out?  or was it a 2 piece spine with ferrule at T? or are there some p90/p100 in the Nitro?


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on March 27, 2011, 07:54 PM
I can only speculate, but I imagine the lower spreader is ferruled with a 6mm solid carbon ferrule and shimmed (as you guessed... probably with p90).  Then and R-Sky 7x6 T.  That is how I've done it in other kites using Nitro lower spreaders.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: werner on March 28, 2011, 01:59 AM
Leading edges are P200, spine is 2Px and lower streaders are Nitro's.
I used a ferrule that is a full rod and fits into the Nitro's
The centre T is a sky-shark T that is drilled to fit the Nitro's
The other side fitted allready to the 2Px
The spine is in one piece.


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: positivo on April 06, 2011, 10:57 PM
Everything's on the website, part from the plan itself  ::)
Sorry to keep you guys waiting, but some of us have a daytime job AND we want the plans to be 100% ok before we publish
Meanwhile, here's a better definition video of the launch fly session of the B'zar 2011 Std: B'zar Std 2011 (http://vimeo.com/22019182)


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on April 07, 2011, 04:50 AM
I've already been playing with the colorizer and anticipating the availablity of the plans.  Frame, fittings and fabric set aside and ready to go. Thanks for the time you're putting in!


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: positivo on April 10, 2011, 01:08 AM
One step forward: the plans in plotter format A0 are online!
The A4 version will be something for Monday, I guess

Enjoy building and flying this beauty!
And don't forget to upload some pictures of the finished kite   ;)

http://www.tweelijners.com/werner (http://www.tweelijners.com/werner)


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on April 10, 2011, 03:00 AM
I'm excited for the plans, but links (within the B'zar website) didn't work... perhaps I need to wait longer?


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: positivo on April 10, 2011, 05:27 AM
My bad! I uploaded the .html files but not the .pdf   ::)

It should work now  8)


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on April 10, 2011, 10:57 AM
Plans downloaded successfully!  Thanks again.  Now, perhaps I'll start a thread with the build progress... if I can remember to take pictures! 


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: positivo on April 20, 2011, 12:14 AM
From now on, the A4 version of the plans is available. That will allow everyone to print out the plans on a home printer.
The A0 is our favorit, because there is no room for errors  ;)


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: silverfox on May 24, 2011, 12:28 PM
Here's my effort.  Got to fly it this evening in light variable winds. Feels heavier to fly compared to the vortex I've been flying for the last year but was impressed how easy it is to do the few tricks I know.  Thanks Steve for sorting me out with all those skyshark rods.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/5751453903_198be68eb8_z.jpg)


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: sugarbaker on May 24, 2011, 03:31 PM
Thanks Steve for sorting me out with all those skyshark rods.


What did you end up using for the spine? 


Title: Re: B'zar 2011
Post by: silverfox on May 24, 2011, 04:11 PM
Luckily I had a couple of P2X that I got in lieu of P200 sometime last year.  I believe they're hard to get at the moment.

I'm enjoying your build thread at the moment, its great to see how others do things.  I'm sure a few of your ideas will end up in some of my future builds.  I'm the guy in the hot cutting video,by the way.  not a great example - just did it for a friend who was starting his first build.