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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: WinterDaze on March 10, 2011, 08:55 PM



Title: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 10, 2011, 08:55 PM
Alright,

A little more of my manifesto work.... ;)

I went looking for a succinct description of what we do with a kite, something that defines the different 'Freestyle form' from other forms of kite flying. And TBH there's not much out there...

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_kite)

I found this on a '.org' site "Freestyle flying is about expressing yourself with a kite through a range of unusual maneuvers; flying the kite on its back, its belly and linking it all together to look really smooth."

TBH.. A little dry and non descriptive if not possibly miss-representative...


I found this on AW's Site (http://wardley.org/kites/freestyle/index.html)

Quote
Freestyle is about letting the moment unfold. It is about expressing yourself as an artwork carved in the wind, on a quarter-pipe or in a powder bowl. It is about balancing yourself with the forces of nature - dancing with gravity, riding the wind, or carving the snow. Freestyle is everywhere. It is the way of the Tao. Everything flows.



"Freestyle is not just another word for "trick flying". Sure, freestyle flying will often include radical tricks and extreme moves, but the two are not synonymous. Freestyle is about Freedom and Style. Freedom to express yourself and explore the moment, and to do it with style. Freestyle flying can be any kind of flying. That's where the freedom comes from."


That seemed a lot closer to me, but we can't go and just steal Andy's word's whenever we need a description....

So I'm putting it out there, how you would go about writing a piece of descriptive writing, read 'PR Blurb' in a description of Freestyle, to and for 'the freestyle layman'?

I was thinking that if we all had a bit of a go that maybe we could gather up a little resource of 'open source' phrases that we, as a 'style', can dole out to the laymen to assist them in their 'education'. Who knows it might make it easier for us to get good press.

This is my little go with the idea, and trust me I know there are better ways to say it, go on have a play :)


The 'pilot' of a Sports Kite is as much artist as athlete, If we were to fly in a 'gallery' many of the forms that are flown could just as easily be described as, “Intimate visual studies in environmental awareness and fluid dynamics, using a highly tuned sports kite as a 4 dimensional brush”.

But we don't generally fly in galleries, the canvas of choice that the pilot chooses is the sky, And our medium?  Quite simply, it's the wind.

A highly interactive and intuitive style of kite flying, The freestyle pilots roll is seen more as that of a guide rather than of a master. At most a pilot only ever asks for their kites co-operation,


The expression, in it's highest form is considered by it's practitioners as much as 'artful play' as 'disciplined structure'.






So as I've said, there should be a few of you out there with some half decent wordsmithery skills....


Anything coming to mind?



Who knows, you might end up defining a movement, for a movement!!! 8)






Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Allen Carter on March 10, 2011, 09:26 PM
I like ABWs definition a lot.

I like yours too, but it's too long.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 10, 2011, 09:49 PM
+1 ;)

Cut and paste to your hearts content   :-\


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: fidelio on March 10, 2011, 10:36 PM
freestyle kite flying is like being a musician of sorts.

music has an underlying structure which is brought to life by the skill of the musician with their instrument. improvisation allows the musician to rearrange the composition and timing to embellish the performance, interpreting the music in his or her own way, to speak to an idea or emotion.

in freestyle kite flying, you're doing the same thing. you're creatively expressing yourself through an improvised performance of a honed skill. the greater the refinement in skill, the more impressive and varied the result.

but ask me tomorrow and i'll give you a different answer.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: steve.hobart on March 11, 2011, 01:02 AM
is..."freedom".....

I think that belongs to Dean Parson's...but to me it is simple but powerful and sums it all up....


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Yan on March 11, 2011, 01:33 AM
I have been trying to think of somthing like this to put on a 'front page' for the VF website, not really for flyers but for the layman that found the website and wanted to know what to know what 'freestyle kite flying' is. As I think we are missing an opportunity to promote the sport.

So far i've got the first 4 words, pretty much the same as the title for this thread, and a few ideas of words like 'three dimensional'.....  and somthing about it being the progression of technical skill - like the music referance Fidelio made.

 


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: stapp59 on March 11, 2011, 01:52 AM
Operative words include kites, tricks, figures, skill, style, expression.

Maybe something like:

Freestyle - Performance kite flying where the pilot demonstrates skill, style, and expression to link together tricks and figures in an aesthetically pleasing manner.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: zippy8 on March 11, 2011, 02:36 AM
Flying one, single, disembodied trick is sort of clever and is Trick Flying.

Flying a kite in a seamless flow of movements, using all possible axes of rotation and all possible control inputs is Freestyle Flying.

At least that's what I thought in 1998 (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.kites/msg/57162756ba7c6362) when I wrote that  :) I'd really like to avoid any reference to "art" lest we become too <swishes hands across face> conceptual (http://images.smh.com.au/2010/10/05/1966767/SpacedArtWalliams169lores-190x107.jpg).


Mike.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: DWayne on March 11, 2011, 03:22 AM
Flying a kite in a seamless flow of movements, using all possible axes of rotation.........

Just how many axes of rotation are there?  ::)

Denny


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 11, 2011, 03:56 AM
Denny, this is a creative space, logic need not apply, if you want Rainbows and Unicorns or even axes, well in here thats just as valid for now as poly axial flying ;)

 So lets put your hat back on and point it in the right direction, come on, you've always be able to express yourself, have a crack yourself  :)

Mike, I disagree, art is allowed the space it asks in this, I sensed you nearly mentioned it (art) back then, you just choked 'it' off before saying it... ;)

I want descriptions that are allowed to include concepts slightly beyond 'fact' I'm looking for a mix of it all (I think  :-X)

continue!


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: zippy8 on March 11, 2011, 04:09 AM
Just how many axes of rotation are there?  ::)

Conventionally three but if you wish to consider time as an axis then four.

You are pronouncing the plural of axis correctly, aren't you ?

Quote from: WinterDaze
Mike, I disagree, art is allowed

You're dead to me.
(http://www.elisanet.fi/mike.emery/Smilies/No%20no%20no.gif)

Mike.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 11, 2011, 04:15 AM
[Edit out of sync]

lol Don't get me started on art, I'd be easier to just let it go, art's in if you want it in, it's a very inclusive house

It's a creative space you've walked into, there are hugs everywhere if you want  :-*


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Flying High on March 11, 2011, 04:58 AM
Hi,
 
The manifesto?

It's a head space that we all escape to just to get some time out, It's an awesome place with so many kites. Hope you like the little gift I gave you at Christmas.

Cheers


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: kalle on March 11, 2011, 05:02 AM
To define freestyle is yet to restrict it!

Freestyle is everything which comes in my mind while flying. Sometimes I just fly corners, angles, circles and straight lines because it`s in my mind. Freestyle? Of course!

Sometimes I am in a Jacob`s Ladder-Combination for a few minutes. Freestyle? Of course!


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Yan on March 11, 2011, 06:00 AM
hmmm, because of it's subjective and creative nature, I also think that art cannot be ruled out... ;)


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: adx1592 on March 11, 2011, 06:11 AM
Quote

Quote from: WinterDaze
Mike, I disagree, art is allowed

You're dead to me.
([url]http://www.elisanet.fi/mike.emery/Smilies/No%20no%20no.gif[/url])

Mike.


real nice.  ::)

+1 on everything fidelio said.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 11, 2011, 07:09 AM
Devin it's all good,  in context to our banter, I would have expected nothing less, and it reminds me I've got to learn how to post 'other' avatars.... or maybe not :)

@FH I had it out the other day for a qick spin, tried it on longer lines, I got a lot to learn :) Oh and on the manifesto thingy... Here (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=3462.0) I suspect is another part of my horrendous ramblings I chose to badge the M word.... ;)

Now everyone, I'm not asking for a philosophical debate, we have heaps of those, I want "words in a line that say something"...

This is different from talking about

[Mikes soup **** picture]

No Chat, just words!!

If you want you can hide your sensitive selves by PM'ing your 'prose' to me and I will handle it with Assange like skill ;)


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 11, 2011, 07:22 AM
Beachbum (hope your flying 8) dude) called his kite his 'main whip' I'd never heard that phrase before, and well, it made it sound 'kool'... I'm wondering what else is out there  :-\,  think of it if you will as some 'Rafa' wording...


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: tpatter on March 11, 2011, 07:45 AM
I would say that Mr Wardley really nailed it, but also that 'less is more' editing down to.....,.

Freestyle is about letting the moment unfold. Freestyle is everywhere. It is the way of the Tao. Everything flows.

Rearrange the lines and I think you may even be able to create a haiku!

:)

-Tom


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Allen Carter on March 11, 2011, 10:16 AM
I know there are a few kite flyers named Art out there and I don't think they should be excluded.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Ca Ike on March 11, 2011, 09:02 PM
Freestyle is just that though...  "Undefined"    Its a blend of everything in its own unique way and never the same twice.  Toss figures, old school tricks, new school tricks, kite, pilot and pilots mood into a blender and what you get in the end is freestyle.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 12, 2011, 12:55 AM
Tom, you're on the right track but read it as a Layman, we'll probably want the word kite in there ;)

Anthony,   :D You're not helping... ;) i don't want to hear it's 'undefined' and i don't think it's undefinable, the sense you get from it may, but we're just talking kite flying, it's not string theory :)

We're putting on a little freestyle demo at our local annual kite festival, the flyer said "kite flying demonstration" the think is those 3 words say squat about what someone will see if they go.... so what would you put in it's place?


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Ca Ike on March 12, 2011, 01:02 AM
Ok how about this then. Freestyle flying is what the pilot wants it to be.  A blend of multiple kite techniques to create a single free flowing display in any way the pilot chooses. 


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: JimB on March 12, 2011, 01:13 AM
I always go back to Andy Preston's  moment you learn to anticipate soliloquy from Tricky Flickery.

I never quote it correctly but it is along the lines of:

"There is a moment of non-control (un-control?) that you learn to anticipate."

That and a quite a few other bits of sound advice like:

"Be gentle on the ground, aggressive in the air"

Being a bad actor quote-wise but A.P. pretty much covers it for me.



Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 12, 2011, 06:22 AM
OooH OOOH Mr Cotter Mr Cotter [said in best Horseshake voice

'Putting String Theory into Practice'

Huhh HuHH See what I did there!?!



That's gold I tell you, GOLD!!


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Kantaxel on March 12, 2011, 07:56 AM
Just how many axes of rotation are there?  ::)
You are pronouncing the plural of axis correctly, aren't you ?


Mike.

Pretty sure that to pronounce the plural of axis you must spell it properly....it would be 'axae'

Just want to make sure all the semantics are kept legit ;)

Jim

PS:  I also beleive that time is linear and can't be included in axae?


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: stapp59 on March 12, 2011, 08:11 AM
Quote from: WinterDaze
OooH OOOH Mr Cotter Mr Cotter [said in best Horseshake voice

'Putting String Theory into Practice'

Huhh HuHH See what I did there!?!

That's gold I tell you, GOLD!!

We may need different definition/descriptions of freestyle kiting for different purposes:

- A description of what the layperson will see - Interesting to watch?
- Describe what we are doing for ourselves - Skill/style.
- Our internal feeling of flow or Zen - Om.
- Convince the Olympic committee our sport is worthy -There now I did it!  :-[
- How our activities fit into the metaphysical space time continuum - Huh?  ;)

My earlier definition was an attempt to combine the first two. Flow or zen is fine for the third.  The fourth will happen along with Freestyle yo-yos due to public perception for one. I don't even understand the last :)

Lots of fun to watch the discussion....


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: DWayne on March 12, 2011, 08:17 AM
I believe axes is the commonly accepted plural of axis. Though I think pitch & yaw are the only really relevant axes of rotation in dual line kites.
And I agree, time is continual, linear, without axis.
Back on subject. Putting a descriptor on something that has a different meaning to so many is a challenge. For me freestyle flying is indescribably invigorating.

Denny


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: UPNET on March 12, 2011, 08:36 AM

Quote
The 'pilot' of a Sports Kite is as much artist as athlete, If we were to fly in a 'gallery' many of the forms that are flown could just as easily be described as, “Intimate visual studies in environmental awareness and fluid dynamics, using a highly tuned sports kite as a 4 dimensional brush”.

But we don't generally fly in galleries, the canvas of choice that the pilot chooses is the sky, And our medium?  Quite simply, it's the wind.

A highly interactive and intuitive style of kite flying, The freestyle pilots roll is seen more as that of a guide rather than of a master. At most a pilot only ever asks for their kites co-operation,


The expression, in it's highest form is considered by it's practitioners as much as 'artful play' as 'disciplined structure'.
10


I think this sums it up rather nicely.   ;D


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: jecko on March 12, 2011, 08:37 AM
May I give it a shot?

Freestyle flying is being One.
You, your kite and the element.
Fly it smooth or fly hard.
Fly it gracefully or aggresively.
Fly it 150 feet or fly it 15 feet.
Fly it indoor or fly it outdoor.
Fly it in countryside or Urban.
Cause freestyle is in you.
Freestyle is your style.
:-)


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: mikenchico on March 12, 2011, 12:31 PM
... And I agree, time is continual, linear, without axis...

Denny

But Einsteins theories seem to state time can be bent which would seem to give it an axis. I subscribe to the theory's of Gottfried Leibniz and Immanuel Kant, whereby "Space and time do not exist in and of themselves, but ... are the product of the way we represent things" because we can know objects only as they appear to us. <from Wikipedia>

Something we use to define other things such as velocity, I hold out that much of physics may fall into place once we discover times universal measurement used in creation rather then our arbitrary 86,400th of our earths rotation. Same theory with numbers, who is it that decided that creation must have 10 fingers? I hold we are still stuck in our Terra/Homo-Centric flat earth mode, we need a little "Freestyle" thinking before we understand.

Freestyle flying isn't art as hung on a wall but it is performance art, it's only there at that moment then it's gone, and like performance art many may witness it but few may see it.

Ok, ok ... I'm getting a little too freestyle here, I'll shut-up now  :D

 



Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Ca Ike on March 12, 2011, 12:55 PM
I believe axes is the commonly accepted plural of axis. Though I think pitch & yaw are the only really relevant axes of rotation in dual line kites.

Denny

To side step again on this.

axis  (kss)
Plural axes (ksz)
1. An imaginary line around which an object rotates. In a rotating sphere, such as the Earth and other planets, the two ends of the axis are called poles. The 23.45° tilt of the Earth's axis with respect to the plane of its orbit around the Sun causes the Northern and Southern Hemispheres to point toward and away from the Sun at different times of the year, creating seasonal patterns of weather and climate. Other planets in the solar system have widely varying tilts to their axes, ranging from near 0° for Mercury to 177° for Venus.
2. Mathematics
a. A line, ray, or line segment with respect to which a figure or object is symmetrical.
b. A reference line from which distances or angles are measured in a coordinate system, such as the x-axis and y-axis in the Cartesian coordinate system.
3. Anatomy The second cervical vertebra, which serves as a pivot for the head.
4. Botany The main stem or central part of a plant or plant part, about which other plant parts, such as branches or leaflets, are arranged.
axial adjective


If you really look at how a trick kite is flown we do use all 3 axes of rotation all be it one way less than the other two.   
Pitch=yo yo based tricks , fade, flare
 Yaw= 540's, lazy's , backspins, figures 
 Roll= barrel roll fade recovery   

Axels, insane's and barrel roll type backspins use both yaw and roll axes.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: tpatter on March 12, 2011, 02:34 PM
This is like defining 'dance'.

The definition can be technically specified, but will still tell you little about the words true meaning.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: stapp59 on March 12, 2011, 04:43 PM
Freestyle - Performance kite flying in which the pilot demonstrates skill, style, and expression to link together tricks and figures in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Competent fliers often display expressions of fun and enjoyment. Expert fliers may experience a metal state of 'flow' in the pursuit of 'artful expression'.  Master fliers strive for a state of 'oneness with the universe' and can be spontaneously transported through the space time continuum leaving behind empty handles and spectator wonderment.

Added a few sentences around mastery progression and transcendence.  ::) :D



Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Kantaxel on March 12, 2011, 05:47 PM
I believe axes is the commonly accepted plural of axis. Though I think pitch & yaw are the only really relevant axes of rotation in dual line kites.
And I agree, time is continual, linear, without axis.
Denny

Agreed, I was trying to conjugate a verb which axis is not............I stand corrected on that Mike.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: fidelio on March 12, 2011, 07:53 PM
time can absolutely be bent, but the scale at which it curves is so large, from any single observation point it would always appear flat.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 12, 2011, 11:49 PM
 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Ummmm, PR...  Public Relations.... and ummm not 'Physics Revised'...

They may well be the most opposite of ideas... :-X



But please continue, there are a few good ideas starting to surface...


But lets try and aim the description at maybe just a little under Professor,
(just trying to be inclusive of a slightly broader audience)  ;)


As you were...


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: fidelio on March 13, 2011, 04:55 AM
freestyle kite flying: play with the breeze, as you please.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Ca Ike on March 13, 2011, 09:02 PM
Ok this is Pretty much moot guys.  IF you want to get technical freestyle and freeform are the same thing.  Basically meaning to go beyond the conventional adding a unique flare or touch creating a new form or style.  Mostly describing art or architechture.

As near as I can find, freestyle is basically slang for the phrase "freeform style".  Common use and origin seems to have come about during the boom in trick skateboarding and BMX biking.  THe phrase "freeform style" eventually was condensed to freestyle when it came to sport type activities.  Freestyle BMX etc.  THats really what we do, take conventional kite flying styles and put them together how we want creating a new acrobatic form.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: WinterDaze on March 13, 2011, 10:10 PM
Ok this is Pretty much moot guys.  IF you want to get technical


A, we're not supposed to get technical in this thread, think of this as 'Freestyle words' I'm on the quest of words that dance:

Here is and example, Bill actually says nothing about her, he uses the idea that description would be pointless... Yet, he leaves you with and indefinable image of the described.



SONNET 17

Who will believe my verse in time to come,
If it were fill'd with your most high deserts?
Though yet, heaven knows, it is but as a tomb
Which hides your life and shows not half your parts.
If I could write the beauty of your eyes
And in fresh numbers number all your graces,
The age to come would say 'This poet lies:
Such heavenly touches ne'er touch'd earthly faces.'
So should my papers yellow'd with their age
Be scorn'd like old men of less truth than tongue,
And your true rights be term'd a poet's rage
And stretched metre of an antique song:
   But were some child of yours alive that time,
   You should live twice; in it and in my rhyme.

By Bill.


Hard  act to follow, but one of my favorite examples of his work.

It's all about the 'idea', and just so you know, I am well aware the English language is piss poor at emotive descriptive, but none the less  ;)


Quote
As near as I can find, freestyle is basically slang for the phrase "freeform style"


A, I'm not looking for a google fest, I can do that myself, I want some original work, have you seen the film 'Dead Poet Society'? Awesome movie, this bit stuck with me, Robin says it better that I could type it

WD

Apologies to all, this can happen if you catch me with a glass of red in my hands ;) but hey it is my thread....  8)

Dead Poets Society - the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation; don't resign to that... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEYIhulK8S0#)

A, this is the bit I want you to play with
Quote
take conventional kite flying styles and put them together how we want creating a new acrobatic form.
In Australia this might be described as "As dry as a dead dingo's donga" (no link, for good reason ;))

If you can spice this up a bit though well,then we might be cookin up something a bit special  :)

WD


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: Kantaxel on March 14, 2011, 01:16 AM
Ok this is Pretty much moot guys.  IF you want to get technical


A, we're not supposed to get technical in this thread, think of this as 'Freestyle words' I'm on the quest of words that dance:

Apologies to all, this can happen if you catch me with a glass of red in my hands ;) but hey it is my thread....  8)


Maybe........just maybe :) Shannon, a change to a less colorful beverage is in order?  Something along the likes of clear or maybe even Amber?

Just sayin' :-\

cheers,
Jim


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: zippy8 on March 14, 2011, 10:35 AM
Maybe........just maybe :) Shannon, a change to a less colorful beverage is in order?

Are you not familiar with the qualities of Australian table wines (http://www.elisanet.fi/mike.emery/Stuff/australian_wines.mp3) ?

Mike,
bugger.


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: GWTWNewb on March 21, 2011, 04:42 AM
If I might hijack the thread a bit.

I haven't ever been asked what freestyle is, but I do regularly get asked by random passers-by: "How come the strings don't get tangled up when you do that?"

I never really know what to say, other than "You need the right sort of kite and a lot of practice.", and that doesn't seem to satisfy their curiosity.  Any ideas about a better answer?


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: stapp59 on March 21, 2011, 06:07 AM
If I might hijack the thread a bit.

I haven't ever been asked what freestyle is, but I do regularly get asked by random passers-by: "How come the strings don't get tangled up when you do that?"

I never really know what to say, other than "You need the right sort of kite and a lot of practice.", and that doesn't seem to satisfy their curiosity.  Any ideas about a better answer?

I like to use the ice skating/skateboarding/snowboarding/BMX bike etc analogy.  It's pretty easy to learn how to skate around for enjoyment.  Learning to do spins and tricks takes time and practice not to end up in a heap on the ground...


Title: Re: Freestyle kite flying is...
Post by: cerfvoliste on March 21, 2011, 09:43 AM
I do regularly get asked by random passers-by: "How come the strings don't get tangled up when you do that?"

I never really know what to say, other than "You need the right sort of kite and a lot of practice.", and that doesn't seem to satisfy their curiosity.  Any ideas about a better answer?

When, I get asked that question I say; "They do."
CV