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Kite Land Talk => Website Discussion => Topic started by: DGomberg on March 26, 2011, 05:54 AM



Title: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: DGomberg on March 26, 2011, 05:54 AM
I just got a call from a professional photographer. Does a lot of gallery shows. He wanted to know my thoughts on selling photos of kites.

I had no problem with him using pics of stuff we made, but said I couldn't speak for others. Told him to ask an attorney about copyright issues.

What do you think?

If you have created something original, how do you feel about someone taking and selling photos of it? How do you feel about being in such a photo? Is it different if you bought the kite rather than having made it?

dg


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: Doc Z on March 26, 2011, 06:02 AM
Personally, I would be fine with somebody using my pictures for non-commercial purposes if they gave me proper attribution.  It would be nice if they ran it by me first, but I wouldn't mind if they didn't.

The NY Times online edition used one of my photos from Flickr for an article and gave me credit, however they did not notify me of this.  I still thought it was kinda cool.

Another time, an ad agency in South America found one of my Flickr photos and paid me to use it in a medical catalog.  Again, for commercial purposes, it is nice to be compensated. 

I know that this is a little off topic, kite-wise, but I figured I'd share my thoughts as they are kind of broad and would apply to photos I might take of kites as well.

Another thing he might want to read up on is the Creative Commons licensing procedures that photographers use when uploading photos to the web.  A good place to look if he wants to see what restrictions the photographer places on his photos (this is used by Flickr, but I think that other online photo hosting sites may use it as well).

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/ (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/)

Hope that is at least some help. 


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: RobB on March 26, 2011, 07:24 AM
I would be fine with someone using my pictures, as long as they talked to me about it first. It would be nice to get at least a credit for the picture.
Finding one of my kite pictures on someone's website for commercial promotion was kind of weird because I wasn't contacted for permission to use it. I'm just sayin'...
~Rob.


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: WinterDaze on March 26, 2011, 08:13 AM
I just got a call from a professional photographer. Does a lot of gallery shows. He wanted to know my thoughts on selling photos of kites.

I had no problem with him using pics of stuff we made, but said I couldn't speak for others. Told him to ask an attorney about copyright issues.

What do you think?

If you have created something original, how do you feel about someone taking and selling photos of it? How do you feel about being in such a photo? Is it different if you bought the kite rather than having made it?

dg

Sorry if I've read this wrong but if they (the photographer) is asking to shoot some shots of your kites as subjects, well strictly speaking if they're commercially available products then I think you'd be hard pressed to stop them legally, if though it was a personal piece then you get to 'chat' amicably about it, information and understanding are king.

As to the idea of commercial agencies/publications 'flickring' shots... well a heads up should be mandatory, and I'd be asking for more than my name to be printed, cheeky is the lightest charge I would level at them, predatory behavior is closer to the mark >:(


One last thing, for commercial usage of an image to promote for profit, if there are people recognisable in the image then a model release is required, each face should have a corresponding model release signed that outlines that the model understands and agrees with the 'terms', payment is traditional, and starts quite often a $0.01, Linda asks a wee bit more...

But without a model release the publication/agency is on very shaky ground.


WD


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: zippy8 on March 26, 2011, 08:15 AM
Some of my snaps, and they are no more than that, turned up on a retail website. I was a bit miffed not to be asked and got an explanation~apology with which I was fine.

It's a bit rude to at least not be asked first but unless my pics. were actively participating in making money for someone else I really don't see a major case for demanding payment. YMMV

Mike.


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: aerial art on March 26, 2011, 08:26 AM
Where do I start,
A "professional photographer " shows up at Long Beach Washington International Kite Festival taking photos of my kite and banner display and even crawls into my tent to get some photos while I'm not there, he leaves a business card with his web site. Later I check out the site and he's selling prints of my display (@ $80 apiece) NO credit given to the me. A year later at Long Beach wandering in a local kite/toy clothing/gift store I see postcards of my banner display for sale, again NO credit given to the builder/designer. And of course no compensation. But the photographer has credit.

A Midwest kite festival uses a portion of one of my kite posters (which is clearly marked with a copyright ) to promote their festival and even advertised it in a kite publication, again NO credit given.

AKA KIting use to publish kites in the magazine giving photo credits to the photographer, but not always the builder/designer credit. Builder unknown?

I know not on topic,but I'm venting here. Somebody sells my Bug kite design to HQ without my permission, which they print in their catalog that the kite is based on an IDEA by me, Idea? Hardly, it is an actual product that I produce- not an idea. At least HQ compensated me at first. But that's another story.

Sell photos of kites, sure, but at least get PERMISSION and give credit to the builder/designer.
Enough venting for now.
Scott


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: WinterDaze on March 26, 2011, 08:40 AM
As to credits, they are not mandatory, they are traditionally negotiated. think of the example of pictures of say, a glass of water or a kettle, common commercial imagery sort of stuff, now do you see designer credits often? But Designer 'products' are a different thing, they are called designer ____.

If I can 'buy one' then I can shoot it without asking anyone, if I can't, well then I gotta or at least should ask...

WD


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: mikenchico on March 26, 2011, 10:14 PM
I was sort of tickled when a picture of me and one of my kites was put out over the UPI wire and got picked up all over the country. I had no idea it had even been taken, even took a while to figure out when it had been taken, I knew it was during WSIKF but the situation didn't dawn on me immediately.

Another of my kites was used commercially in Scott Hampton's first poster, just a drawing, not an actual photo. Of course Scott approached us and asked if that would be OK and showed us the preliminary sketch he had done and was trying to figure out what he was going to erase to get ours in. Of course he was taking down payments too so we bought one  ;D

When you put a kite on public display I think you have to assume a picture may be taken and that picture may be published, after all putting it on a photo sharing website is publishing it.

A picture of one of my kites being sold would depend on the context of the picture. A picture taken during a festival where my kite is included OK, no problem. But a picture of just my kite, thus the attraction for the picture is my artwork, well that might make me raise an eyebrow.

But I still make exceptions, my first example was a picture of just me and my kite and it was used commercially. But that use was as a promotion for kiting, human interest stories and promotion for WSIKF. I doubt it sold that many newspapers and they don't charge for the WSIKF program so it seemed cool still to me.



Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: cgregurich73 on March 27, 2011, 03:07 AM
I am professional photographer and you can publish and use any image you take without. Consent as long as the photo was taken on public property. Kites included.


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: Jim Foster on March 27, 2011, 11:12 AM
A photo of ours was used in the 2010 AKA calendar for July.  I was first asked by an AKA Region Director and I gave her the OK.

A photo I took of our car and trailer was posted on the internet, and I was subsequently contacted by Trailer Life magazine who wanted to use it on the cover of their December 2001 issue.  They wanted to buy it for one year.  They did, and paid me nicely.  The photo is now mine to use as I please.

In today's world of phone cameras, the internet, social networking web sites and cameras on nearly every corner, keeping photos taken of kites or anything else out of the public eye could be a daunting task.  If you don't want something publicized, keep it away from public places.

Keep your behavior in order and your fly zipped up.




Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: quincy on March 28, 2011, 10:20 AM
I am not a lawyer and my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

The photography forums are full of discussions about this and similar topics.

One thing to bear in mind is that the law in this area varies by country.

Taking a picture in a public place of people/buildings/objects for non-commercial use is quite different than taking a picture in a public place of a person/copyrighted object/distinctive structure for commercial use and is different again when using pictures taken in a public area for news reporting.

This is a question for people who specialize in these topics in your location.



Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: Steven L Hall on March 28, 2011, 10:49 AM
I was the one that referred the photographer to Dave.  We had a long conversation so here is the question.
Photographer lives in the Seattle area.  What he wants to do is to sell photos of commercially produced kites that he owns.  Not planning on including the flyer or others in the photos, but if he did it would be with a model release.  Does he need the permission of the designer/manufacturer?


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: Allen Carter on March 28, 2011, 11:48 AM
The best answer to that is "it depends"

If the object is part of another work of art (the photograph), and the artist does not rely upon trademarked content (logo, etc) to sell the art, then there's not much of a legal issue.

For example, if you take a close up picture of the back of a laptop with the glowing Apple logo, then sell t-shirts with the picture from your Apple fan site, the owner of the logo would probably have an issue.

If a kite is part of a photograph that contains other elements, sky, sand, trees, whatever, and the photograph is not relying on the brand name of the kite for sales, should be no issue.

If the kite has a beautiful applique center panel, which is photographed up close, out of context and then that graphic sold with no other content, the owner of that graphic might have an issue.

I don't know why a photographer would want to avoid contacting the kite maker. If they are avoiding the moral dilemma of deciding to sell an image that the kite designer isn't happy with, well...


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: DGomberg on March 28, 2011, 09:38 PM
The first sample photo he sent me was of a knock-off copy of Martin Lester Legs. I told him trying to sell that could be problematic.... ;)

Of course, how was he to know??

I showed him the authentic version and the price was a shock. Kites cost more than $50??

dg


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: Gamelord on March 29, 2011, 12:16 PM

I showed him the authentic version and the price was a shock. Kites cost more than $50??

dg

Shhhhhhhh!  My wife thinks the same way....


Title: Re: Commercial Kite Photos
Post by: ainokea on March 31, 2011, 02:02 PM
Back in 97', my girlfriend at the time from Sapporo, Japan gave me a Japanese kite magazine.
I looked at the cover and thought, this stack of Hyperkites looks very familiar, where did I see it
before? And at the time, I was sponsored by Randy. (Tom) This is how stupid I am, it was my stack.
It took me all of a full day to realize this, DUH! The magazine company printed the picture upsidedown.
I didn't have a problem with them using a picture of my kite, it's happened many times before through the years. Some asked for permission, most didn't. No biggie, but if they were going to use it for sales, I WANT KALA! (cash in Hawaiian)