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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Photos and Videos => Topic started by: chilese on March 26, 2011, 06:16 PM



Title: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: chilese on March 26, 2011, 06:16 PM
Where is the whimsy?

Aside from the graphic Moonie sport kites, why are we so serious?

Where are the modern equivalents of Joel Scholz?

And woe be to anyone who orders a custom other than 1 color and shades of grey.

Jon Trennepohl got some flak for the custom Widow Maker with the multi-color spider applique even though the rest of the kite was your basic shades of grey applied to the WM panels.

The best looking recent sport kite layout has been the Talon Vented (very nice) and I'll throw in a nod to the almost defunct Focus lineup. Other than that, it's business as usual: geometric triangles and polygons: Seven, Cosmic, Mongoose, Silver Fox, B-Series Revs (yeah, you're not getting out of this) TNT (cute though, and they took static for it too).

I WANT SOME WHIMSY!!!

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_3waCPW86CRA/TX-uu-2jnXI/AAAAAAAAr54/bpJ3-jwE8i0/s800/_DSC8045%20Alfano%20Lummas%20Hummingbird.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/KiteParty92011#5584374185131744626)


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: fidelio on March 26, 2011, 06:36 PM
is it a question of art meets commerce? where if today's kite market is diminished in comparison to other eras, the commercial design choices of today are considered most closely and have given way to 'safe' decisions?
is it given the technical nature of the flight characteristics asked of these kites, the designers concerns are more technical than aesthetic?
is it just the fashion like boyfriend jeans and bieber hair?
or is it something else?


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: John Welden on March 26, 2011, 06:44 PM
I'm okay with graphics on some single line kites.  

On sport kites I like a wind surfer sail look. High tech, panel lay out is there for a reason, doesn't look like a kids toy.  The first time I walked into a real kite shop and saw some Prism's and a Utopia, I about died.  The details like sewn bridle loops, custom molded fittings and carbon sticks I find beautiful. I have trouble with ornamentation on things that are supposed to be all about function.


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Imafloater on March 26, 2011, 07:28 PM
Did someone forget this is supposed to be fun?  I have several kites that won't rate on anyones quality list (even mine) but they stay in the A bag because they're cool looking, fun to fly and I like them.  Found a weekend at Cococa Beach in Florida had to be the only day in history with no wind at the beach but my cool looking, fun to fly, I like it Chinese swallow took to the air.  Technology is great but muss up your Justin Beiber hair and have fun.


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: cgregurich73 on March 26, 2011, 08:15 PM
Im with yeah you have to go crazy when i first put a graphic up here with my custom widow maker not many people liked because it was floresant green. I like Bright and weird colors if some one made a good tie died sport kite i owuld probably own it.


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Allen Carter on March 26, 2011, 10:18 PM
Not everyone is man enough to pull this one off, but it fits you to a tee.


(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_3waCPW86CRA/S1kHwot5zzI/AAAAAAAAANg/tM_djcBLqJc/s640/82516%20Megan%20Moxie.jpg)


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: chilese on March 26, 2011, 10:38 PM
Yeah, maybe I'm a bit eccentric and perhaps not too subtle. I really like the look of that Moxie. And I bought it before I even thought about moving to Las Vegas.

Surprised you didn't go with one of the pinkies, rainbow or Unicorn Allen.  ;)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_3waCPW86CRA/S2Pv6lbjBQI/AAAAAAAAH8Y/qj_2sR0efDE/s288/569%20john%20T2.jpg)  (https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2004Kites#5432449365298054402)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_3waCPW86CRA/S2kVb9qGF6I/AAAAAAAANXQ/5ugTZWCkj7w/s288/153%20ronin%20cisco.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej/2004Kites#5433897995550988194)


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Dolphinboy on March 26, 2011, 10:53 PM
Maybe you forgot about Lam Hoac. What about this?

(http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/47994/2618103700102181666S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2618103700102181666ISOfGc)

Or this?

(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/48149/2538852340102181666S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2538852340102181666xjDaGM)

Or maybe....

(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/46731/2293149240102181666S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2293149240102181666MPxPlr)


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: zippy8 on March 26, 2011, 10:58 PM
I had crop circles on one of my kites. That's about as whimsical as I get.

(http://www.elisanet.fi/mike.emery//Smilies/Long%20hair.gif)

Mike.


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Stardragon on March 26, 2011, 11:43 PM
Although essentially geometrical, I like the look of Tinkham's Vipers.

Ron


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: tonycarl60 on March 27, 2011, 02:06 AM
John, what is the name of the kite in the first photo (bird kite), and is it still available commercially? The shape reminds me of the Kestrel's that Ray Bethel flies.


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Ca Ike on March 27, 2011, 02:36 AM
Thats a Joel Schultz Hummingbird I believe.


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: GWTWNewb on March 27, 2011, 04:10 AM
Variety is the spice of life, so I'll offer up some reasonable explanations and let you decide:

1)  It's hard enough to tell someone your hobby is flying kites because you'll most often being slotted into the "total sad case" category.  There's no need to make things even harder (or give them any justification) by flying a silly looking kite.

2)  Most of us don't walk around day to day with a personal image from the 60s/70s/80s/90s and that's simply due to basic fashion.  Kites are the same, I suppose.  Flouros were popular in the late 80s/early 90s, but now things have moved in a different direction and converged on neutrals with a single feature color.

3)  Kites of "whimsy" tend not to perform up to modern expectations.  Sure, the Fearless is an exception, but most people are wary of the price tag and the stigma of being in the Cult of Lam.

4)  Good taste - most of have it to a reasonable degree, some of us don't.


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Kantaxel on March 27, 2011, 06:55 AM
Variety is the spice of life, so I'll offer up some reasonable explanations and let you decide:

3)  Kites of "whimsy" tend not to perform up to modern expectations.  Sure, the Fearless is an exception, but most people are wary of the price tag and the stigma of being in the Cult of Lam.

4)  Good taste - most of have it to a reasonable degree, some of us don't.

Stigma?   :-X  Cult?   :D

The sty is in the eye of the beholder,    :(


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: DWayne on March 27, 2011, 07:49 AM
It seems to me there are sufficient numbers of rainbows and unicorns ( and silly faces) pulling tails around to dispel the idea that all sport kite fliers are aesthetically serious.

Denny


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: DWayne on March 27, 2011, 07:56 AM
I am getting tired from hearing few of you here. I have been in kitting for more then 20 year, helping many flier become a champion and many other thing every where on the, on the phone around the world. Spending time talking to so many pilot when their need help. Now you call me a cult from what??? Buy few kite from me and you call a cult, shame on you. Some time I am thinking get out of this kite family thing. Getting off all this BS.

Anyway, you can just sitting here and wasting your life away and I am heading to Asia for few month enjoy my life. Little advice to you. Change the way you are thinking before you get to old and die.

SNAP
 :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

Denny


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: onlye on March 27, 2011, 08:10 AM
It's not just kites.  Take a look at some statistics on the color of cars people buy.  The bright Red, Yellow, Orange, Greens draw people into the showroom but when the wallet comes out it's White, Black, Silver and Grey that dominate the final purchase.





Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Fearless Object on March 27, 2011, 08:17 AM
Let's me tell you one more time, Buy what you like and do what you like. Understood ???

Free world after all, right??? Why always bitching??? Maybe born that way, can't help it :)


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: UPNET on March 27, 2011, 08:31 AM
Not sure I agree with your premise...in the first place. I think most people who gravitate to a kite that "trick's"...are looking for performance first. Aesthetics second. Not sure if folks even consider..."whimsy". Typically...if you want whimsy....you go SLK. And...one mans whimsy...is another man's.....wtf is that! Then there is the cost involved. What would Ken charge for a "Hummingbird" replica. Or Jon T.  Or any other custom kite maker. The market is small enough as it is... and has to appeal to more than one or two people. Still...I suppose you could contact your favorite custom maker...and get a quote. Although I suspect the cost for "whimsy" would be up there.. to reflect the labor/materials involved. Then there is the performance aspect. Would a "Hummingbird"replica "trick" as well...compared to another kite in a custom makers arsenal? Would this require the maker to construct several prototypes? And would you be willing to fund the cost of the prototypes as well? In the end...would the cost of "whimsy" be worth it to you?
 ;D


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: in.divi.dual on March 27, 2011, 09:25 AM
I am getting tired from hearing few of you here. I have been in kitting for more then 20 year, helping many flier become a champion and many other thing every where on the, on the phone around the world. Spending time talking to so many pilot when their need help. Now you call me a cult from what??? Buy few kite from me and you call a cult, shame on you. Some time I am thinking get out of this kite family thing. Getting off all this BS.

Anyway, you can just sitting here and wasting your life away and I am heading to Asia for few month enjoy my life. Little advice to you. Change the way you are thinking before you get to old and die.

Um ... err .. whats the expression ?

Oh yeah, I 'member now

LMFAO



Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: indigo_wolf on March 27, 2011, 10:01 AM
I suspect this Mamba performs like it's brethren.

(http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/48216/1117949371049870108S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1117949371049870108TYnOlN)

Cost is certainly a factor.... performance probably less so.  Yes, if you do endless panels and detailed appliqués it will affect weight, drag, and general flight characteristics. But that hasn't always been an impediment:
(http://www.chicagofirekiteteam.com/images/killer_bee.jpg)(http://www.skysportdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Img_0707.jpg)
(http://www.sportkite.com/ak_fathom_tn.jpg)(http://www.sportkite.com/ak_joker_tn.jpg)(http://www.sportkite.com/ak_panthers_tn.jpg)(http://www.sportkite.com/ak_kat_tn.jpg)

Some of the aerodynamic challanges of whimsy could be addressed by dye-sublimation, but that would also ramp up the cost factor.

And lest we forget the whimsy factor engendered by adding two more lines to the mix:
(http://www.revkites.com/main/images/products/masterpiece/poulter/IMG_EYES_thumb.jpg)(http://www.revkites.com/main/images/products/masterpiece/burkhardt/IMG_0040_thumbnail.jpg)(http://www.revkites.com/main/images/products/masterpiece/gibian/IMG_0105_midsize.jpg)(http://www.revkites.com/main/images/products/masterpiece/sainz/JoseSainz%20Stallion%20002_thumb.jpg)(http://www.revkites.com/main/images/products/masterpiece/tom/darklady/IMG_2361th.JPG)

Some folks already balk at the price of new Revs and more so with the Masterpiece Series.
Maybe it's not about the lines... maybe if we took away some spars, there would be some more room for whimsy

(http://media.flyozone.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=20860&g2_serialNumber=1)

Ozone kites will do custom colors for a $75 surcharge on their higher end kites.  The surcharge for actually changing panel layout and more aesthetic panel changes is generally something that only companies, not individuals, can afford.

High tech, panel lay out is there for a reason, doesn't look like a kids toy.


toy - a device regarded as providing amusement

Ranging in size from 3M to 10M and based on the Ozone Frenzy platform, I don't think any of the kites by Kieron Jansch will ever be mistaken for something intended for an underage audience.  However, the 300+hours required in their construction would warrant a price tag that most larger "kids" wouldn't be able to foot.  FWIW: I can't think of many powerkiters that wouldn't covet adding one to their quiver.
(http://www.kj-kites.com/photo/kjkites/candh3m/Frenzy-3m-01.jpg)(http://www.kj-kites.com/photo/kjkites/!woow/images/01.jpg)(http://www.kj-kites.com/photo/kjkites/candh/images/01.jpg)(http://www.kj-kites.com/photo/kjkites/candh10m/candh10m0001.jpg)

In the end, it comes down to cost.  Manufacturers can ill-afford to produce a kite that only appeals to a fraction of an already small population.  Custom builders would have to charge for their time and the "PITA" surcharge would in some cases dwarf the base price for vanilla version of a kite.

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: DWayne on March 27, 2011, 11:08 AM
Let's me tell you one more time, Buy what you like and do what you like. Understood ???

Free world after all, right??? Why always bitching??? Maybe born that way, can't help it :)

Funny thing is, after rereading this thread, it seems you're the only one doing any bitching.
Maybe you were just born that way.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: DD on March 27, 2011, 11:37 AM
I am getting tired from hearing few of you here. I have been in kitting for more then 20 year, helping many flier become a champion and many other thing every where on the, on the phone around the world. Spending time talking to so many pilot when their need help. Now you call me a cult from what??? Buy few kite from me and you call a cult, shame on you. Some time I am thinking get out of this kite family thing. Getting off all this BS.

Anyway, you can just sitting here and wasting your life away and I am heading to Asia for few month enjoy my life. Little advice to you. Change the way you are thinking before you get to old and die.

You may not have contributed to the calling it a cult. But those who reccomend your kites on this forum as the ONLY answer for any kite to even the newest of fliers along claiming flites from no wind at all to hurricane force gails with same kite rubs the community at large the wrong way. This maybe coupled with the prices paid for your kites which seem to be over market value tend to give fliers of your kites a "cult" status.

but now more on topic, I think there is alot of whimsy in the kite market and i think those that fly sport kites try to distance themselves from the "rainbow toy beach kites" by being more restrained in their colors. The " i drive a ferrari and that alone is enough to make it great i don't need to paint it garish colors to get noticed" theory


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: DD on March 27, 2011, 11:42 AM
the seriousness of this day and age just seems to have beat whimsy down..no one can take a joke anymore or laugh, case in point this billboard that got removed

[attachments older than 90 days deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: kiteclique on March 27, 2011, 11:51 AM
the seriousness of this day and age just seems to have beat whimsy down..no one can take a joke anymore or laugh, case in point this billboard that got removed


Call me a killjoy, but I don't believe companies should really be profiting from the mass suicide of 900+ people.

http://www.raptureready.com/rr-kool-aid.html (http://www.raptureready.com/rr-kool-aid.html)

-Frazer


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Fearless Object on March 27, 2011, 02:04 PM
Remember one thing here, I did not ask you to buy anything from me understand??? if you like than you buy if you don't like than don't buy it. I am not ask you for anything for free. You pay for what you get. Stop calling a cult. Thank you. Have a nice day.

What a nice day :) don't want to wasting anymore time :)


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: in.divi.dual on March 27, 2011, 02:08 PM
Remember one thing here, I did not ask you to buy anything from me understand??? if you like than you buy if you don't like than don't buy it. I am not ask you for anything for free. You pay for what you get. Stop calling a cult. Thank you. Have a nice day.


Yeah, thats right, leave Lam alone, its not his fault, he never asked for such adulation afterall !

He's Not The Messiah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA#ws)



Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: jaybett on March 27, 2011, 02:16 PM
Entry level products often times have a whimsical nature, to get people to try them. When performance is the main criteria, colors reflect that purpose.

I don't care for white kites on a over cast day, or black kites against a dark back drop such as woods or cliffs. I believe the OP, doesn't care for blue.  

Over the past few years, I've been picking up kites with bright colors that can easily be seen in all conditions.

Jay


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: jaybett on March 27, 2011, 02:42 PM
Amazing a thread on aesthetics, turns into a one about Lam.

Out of curiosity, to those making critical and snide comments, why do you care so much about Lam?

Is it because he makes a great kite, that is easy to trick, and has a great wind range?

Is it because he is an extraordinary craftsman? 

Is it because he has a group of fliers, that  appreciate his kites?

What part of excellence don't you like?

Jay


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: Fearless Object on March 27, 2011, 02:50 PM
Never mine me, I am just little guy ;) Please worry about your country before China take over USA, keep supporting cheap price made in China and one day you and your country will be out of job soon. Wake up  and smell the coffee in China??? ???

God bless America But you guy never did. Too bad. Keep going the way you are. I don't care my friend. I did not ask you for anything for free, I work hard for what I do. UNDERSTAND :'(


Title: Re: Why Are Sport Kite Fliers So Aesthetically Serious?
Post by: chilese on March 27, 2011, 03:02 PM
Sadly, I am locking my own thread.  :-[