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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: w8kbrder on March 31, 2011, 12:14 PM



Title: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: w8kbrder on March 31, 2011, 12:14 PM
Hey folks,

Looking to replace one of the lower spreaders as well as all of the connectors. Any idea as to the specs of the Hawaiian Spinoff and what size/type tubing to use? Being that its such an old kite, I'm wondering if it would be better to replace all of the frame with up-to-date Carbon Fiber? Bring it up to speed with newer kite technology?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_Kbx2YtP9U1Y/TZTTMei5c9I/AAAAAAAAAk4/qPQqlidoxL0/Spinoff%20Replacement%20Parts.JPG)

thanks!
Nick


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Allen Carter on March 31, 2011, 02:18 PM
I'd replace the fittings with modern APAs, but going to a stiffer carbon frame will change the flight characteristics quite a bit. If the current sticks are sound, I'd say upgrade the fittings and fly it a bunch. After you know what it's supposed to feel like, you can mess with a reframe.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: mikenchico on March 31, 2011, 02:42 PM
Replacing the whole frame is up to you, you can definitely lighten the kite up by 4 ounces or more while increasing the stiffness, but it won't be a modern kite. The center T ends up being an issue, your current one would need to be shimmed or make a new one, the HQ connector I used is no longer available but FSD has something similar. You'll find the APA leading edge fittings work perfect with mordern framing. P200's or 5PT's for the leading edges and spreaders, you could use the same for the spine or go up to P300 or P400's since the spine isn't balanced by any sail below the spreader and could use a bit more stiffness.

You can also drill out APA-D leading edge connectors to fit your current frame (They might stretch enough). They sure come apart easier then the Vinyl did and would be a worthwhile upgrade whatever you decide to do with the frame.

If that is a standard your current spreaders are probably Glaspar J65 at .337" diameter or maybe K75's at .350" diameter. If it's an UL then I think they were E40 at .298" diameter. I would replace both of them since the new ones might be significantly different from those 30 year old ones. Gone with the Wind doesn't list them since they are not used much anymore but they had them in stock or can get them if you contact Steve.



Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: w8kbrder on March 31, 2011, 08:08 PM
Right now my goal is just to be able to get it airborne. Right now mine is missing the left spreader....completely missing. I wasnt sure if I could still find the same material its made of. I just want it to fly. I will probably replace both spreaders. I just need to figure out where to find the materials


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Steve Hall on March 31, 2011, 08:18 PM
I can get all the rods Mike mentioned and still may a few odd ones around.  Drop me an email.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: kiteking on March 31, 2011, 08:59 PM
Here are some stats for the spinoff, I retro fitted a sack of avengers, used tubing from Home Depot, I took a spreader in to check the fit


Hawaiian Spin-Off '95
WINGS   Materials   SPINE  Material   LWR SPRDR  Material   UPPER SPRDR  Material      STANDOFF Material

65.0   SKYSK 6.3     32.5  SKYSK 6.3      32.5      SKYSK 6.3      22.0       SKYSK 6.3       9.0       3/32 FGR


Hawaiian Spin-Off '96

65.0 . 240 GRPH     32.5 .240 GRPH        32.5     .240 GRPH        22.0     .240 GRPH        9.0        3/32 FGR


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Smeagol on April 01, 2011, 11:32 AM
I had thought of doing something similar with my Spin-Off, just never got around to it.  I seem to recall someone reframing one with Rev spars, might check out the Rev forum for more info.

I had also considered upgrading the APAs & possibly framing on my Laser 9 stack (very similar to Spin-Off just smaller) until I realized I would need 36 APAs and a boatload of spars to retrofit the stack.  Kind of a major project, maybe one of these days.

-Mike


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: mikenchico on April 01, 2011, 01:24 PM
Yeah I guess I should've asked what it was framed in since some of the later models and the re-productions out of Oz used different spars. His picture is pre-whiskers though and I don't recall carbon spars being available then, our dealer carried nothing but the glass framed standards.

*Mike* I thought you had posted the spec's for the fiberglass frame once, look under the TOTL Hawaiian Team Chevron, the original Spinoff used the same frame minus the batten spars.

Surprised you're not needing to replace the elastic (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=399) on the wingtips and center. Might give that a stretch  before you place an order.



Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: kiteking on April 02, 2011, 04:48 AM

*Mike* I thought you had posted the spec's for the fiberglass frame once, look under the TOTL Hawaiian Team Chevron, the original Spinoff used the same frame minus the batten spars.


Previous post  here  (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=3796.msg40457#msg40457)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: w8kbrder on April 28, 2011, 07:28 AM
So I'm looking to order a lower spreader. Per the specs listed above, I need a 32.5 Skyshark 6.3 Tube. I measured my current lower spreader and it is 32.5 long, 8cm wide.

Hawaiian Spin-Off '95
WINGS   Materials   SPINE  Material   LWR SPRDR  Material   UPPER SPRDR  Material      STANDOFF Material

65.0   SKYSK 6.3     32.5  SKYSK 6.3      32.5      SKYSK 6.3      22.0       SKYSK 6.3       9.0       3/32 FGR


So is this tube still availabe?

Can anyone IM me with a direct link to where I can buy this lower spreader?

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_Kbx2YtP9U1Y/TbhlvG6Za5I/AAAAAAAAAvA/aLUvhiE9vdY/04-27-2011%2014.51.17.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Kbx2YtP9U1Y/Tbhl3t7lfCI/AAAAAAAAAvI/YLx150VK0mE/04-27-2011%2014.50.25.jpg)

Also here is a pic of my current "rigged" connectors. Anyone have a link to some new replacements of something that would work instead of these cut up pieces of garden hose?

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Kbx2YtP9U1Y/TbhlSm_RvhI/AAAAAAAAAu8/scM89V05JD4/04-27-2011%2014.49.17.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_Kbx2YtP9U1Y/TbhlJ4ue6nI/AAAAAAAAAvM/1M94juRvoIE/04-27-2011%2014.48.43.jpg)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: kiteking on April 28, 2011, 08:59 AM
Contact Steve (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=18) (our host) or click of the Skyburner (http://www.skysharktubes.com/) link to the left and ask Jon


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: w8kbrder on April 28, 2011, 09:44 AM
Contact Steve ([url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=18[/url]) (our host) or click of the Skyburner ([url]http://www.skysharktubes.com/[/url]) link to the left and ask Jon


Thanks,

I just emailed Jon at Skyburner.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Steve Hall on April 28, 2011, 10:27 AM
Not sure what Sky Shark 6.3 is.  They look to be an old P series rod guessing maybe 5P's?  Unfortunately they are no longer made. P200 or P300 might be the way to go.
Those "rigged " connectors are original. You could try APA B's.  My only concern would be that the APA's are a little shorter than the original and might allow the spreaders to pop out during flight.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Smeagol on April 28, 2011, 11:05 AM
You could probably get similar vinyl hose @ a hardware store if you wanted both sides to match, I'm pretty sure I've seen it there before.

-Mike


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spin-off - Repair Questions
Post by: mikenchico on April 28, 2011, 02:50 PM
I'm still not seeing those as Skyshark Tubes.

I don't recall any pre-whisker (stand-off's) TOTL kites sold having carbon frames. Skyshark Tubes didn't even existed before 1993, and I believe all TOTL kites had stand-off's by 1990.

And as I recall the 3, 5 & 8P tubes were not sanded and had the ridged surface like the current PT series tubes, the tubes in your picture definitely do not have ridges.

Your leading edge spars are also significantly larger then the spreaders, on all the carbon versions, the leading edges and spreaders are the same diameter, only on the fiberglass versions were the spars different sizes.

It's hard to see by your photo's the actual diameter, a 5P Skyshark would've been approximately .303" OD or 7.7 mm and your picture shows over 8 mm as best as I can tell. The other carbon option, which was a smooth finish like yours, were the pultruded tubes at .240" OD which are only 6 mm OD.

The fiberglass J65 at .337" OD would be 8.5 mm, the leading edges were K75's at .350" OD or 8.9 mm. I could be wrong but that's what I'm seeing in your photo's.



Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Steve Hall on April 28, 2011, 03:05 PM
You are right Mike.  Those definitely are not Sky Shark tubes.
If you are up for covering the postage to and from and the cost of replacements I'm sure I can get that kite back in flying condition.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: thief on April 28, 2011, 03:42 PM
umm..yeah those are glaspar.....if they have a good amount of flex to them they are glaspars....tubular fiberglas..i would agree with Mike that they are the J65s.....
the step up was the prospar rods.....


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Magpiesfooty on April 28, 2011, 06:34 PM
Take it from an old schooler, I recommend going back to the original fiberglass tube spars. This is what the kite came factory with, and that is what it is designed for. Stay close to the diameter and the stiffness of the original stuff (which was not marked with a brand name). Keep the spreader holders, vinyl tubing like one that are pictured, the reinforced type that you have is available at the "orange" hardware store and are a good choice.  Be absolutely sure that the length of the spars are correct and equal on both sides. Use a good ferrule on the lower spreader (that goes into the "T" fitting, through and connects to the other lower spreader).  Replace the shock, (bungee cord) on the ends of the leading edges if you like to keep that "Fresh" feel.  Keep it tight but not overly so. Fly on lines that are at least 110'. (if you fly with Kevlar, make sure you separate yourself from the rest of the flyers... your line is lethal ! Spectra is better but has it's drawbacks.) You will get pulled a little, the kite will make some noise and you will have a blast!  Keep it simple and keep it original as you can. This kite was not designed for all of the fancy things and new technology that most of the modern kites now have, and that is a good thing.  You will be glad that you did.  Good luck and enjoy!


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Magpiesfooty on April 28, 2011, 08:22 PM
Use a good ferrule on the lower spreader (that goes into the "T" fitting, through and connects to the other lower spreader).

If you have the type of "T" fitting with the metal female ferrule, be sure to use arrow tip,  inserts to help keep the spreaders from splitting and breaking.

Happy Flying!


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: w8kbrder on May 04, 2011, 09:12 AM
So I got the spinoff back into flying condition.

Anyone have any pictures of the later versions that came with standoffs?

How difficult would it be to add standoffs?

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Kbx2YtP9U1Y/TcC2s6n8KTI/AAAAAAAAAvw/g9AcoHWsQbQ/s800/IMAG0689.jpg)


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: mikenchico on May 04, 2011, 03:32 PM
You just need some of the 3.8 oz Dacron fabric or leading edge material, a sewing machine, a soldering iron (to cut Darcron and melt holes) and a few notions. Simple job. My Spinoff is actually pre-stand-off too, I added them but only guessed at the position and length, IMO I did darn good though, edge handling on that kite is the best I've experienced to date, but my position is old school WIDE. I'd bet somebody has the stock measurements or a better spot for a bit more modern feel.



Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Magpiesfooty on May 04, 2011, 03:33 PM
Why would you add stand offs if the kite was not designed for them?  No real advantage would be gained if added. It will fly better without them.  If you are trying to modify the kite to make it do something that it was not designed to do... Maybe the Spinoff was not the kite you really wanted.  It was a great kite for its day.


Have fun!!


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Smeagol on May 04, 2011, 04:34 PM
I have one w/standoffs (whiskers), I can get pics of it later tonight if you'd like.

-Mike

So I got the spinoff back into flying condition.

Anyone have any pictures of the later versions that came with standoffs?



Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: w8kbrder on May 04, 2011, 08:39 PM
I have one w/standoffs (whiskers), I can get pics of it later tonight if you'd like.

-Mike

So I got the spinoff back into flying condition.

Anyone have any pictures of the later versions that came with standoffs?


that would be great! thanks mike!


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: tekarra on June 23, 2011, 12:38 PM
w8kbrder,

I have an identical Spin Off.  At one time I thought of adding whiskers, but after seeing some whiskered Spin Offs fly, I did not think it was worth the effort.  If you go ahead, let us know how it compares to previous.


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: Smeagol on June 23, 2011, 03:10 PM
Not sure if you saw this thread already, but I had posted some pics in this thread of mine (when it was still mine  ;)):

http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=5514.msg49770#msg49770 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=5514.msg49770#msg49770)

-Mike


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: coop on June 27, 2011, 08:24 AM
I have several spinoff's, two with whiskers and two with out. I added whiskers to one of the two that have them. The big difference is at the edge and launching. Also, they quiet the kite down a little bit.

I will probably add whiskers to the other two, but mostly to aid in launching. I can take a pic of how I added them and post it.

@smeagol-Loving my new spinoff!


Title: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: thief on June 27, 2011, 09:14 AM
just heard that a shop on cape cod might have a brandy new spinoff for sale...................


Title: Re: Re: TOTL Hawaiian Spinoff - Repair Questions
Post by: coop on June 27, 2011, 09:34 AM
Theif, ill take it if they have one!

Tappin on my EVO