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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: Randy101 on April 05, 2011, 06:18 PM



Title: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Randy101 on April 05, 2011, 06:18 PM
I'm a senior who hasn't touched a kite in 50 years, but I've recently got the bug again, so here I am.  Needless to say, things have changed somewhat since "back in the day".I've been looking at dual line stunt kites and have more or less settled on the Quantum so far.  The reasons are price point, carbon frame, well-known and respected manufacturer.I've been looking at carbon because I expect I'll lawn dart the thing a few times before I get the hang of it.

I've read everything I could find on the net, including this wonderful forum, but before I pull the trigger I thought I'd give a shout out for advice.  Is there another kite which matches my stated criteria that you would recommend as an alternative to the Quantum?  Thanks for your time and hopefully your input.

Regards
Randy


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: st3307 on April 05, 2011, 06:48 PM
Hiya  Randy    Welocome  to the  forum    and  a  Quantum  is a   very  good   choice   as  a starter    kite   tough  as  nails  and  will  grow    with  you  over  time  as  your   skill devolpe  ;D


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: bigpappo1 on April 05, 2011, 06:51 PM
Randy the Quantum will meet your needs. It'a a great Novice to Intermediate kite. If  you live near an area where there's active flying, hang out for a while and talk to the other flyers see what's best for your area. What part of the country are you in?.
chuck


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Ca Ike on April 05, 2011, 06:52 PM
Hello Randy, welcome back to the hobby.  You really can't go wrong with the quantum as a first choice.  Its a great beginner-intermediate kite for the price and it will do just about anything trick wise, however you need to be very precise on inputs to get it to trick and it does have more of an old school flare and is not a pitchy as some kites.  There are some better choices though that will take you a lot farther in learning.

I started back with a quantum myself but If I had to choose again I'd go with the hypnotist instead.  Its a bit more money but a lot more capable intro kite and will carry you through virtually all the advance stuff.

Flying wings Silver fox is also a good intro kite for the price.

My suggestion though is to talk to Steve here at gwtw.  He was running a special on the french connection which is a more advanced kite yet still pretty tough for beginner mishaps.  IF he is still running the special then it would be the better value since it put the FC in the same price range as the Quantum and you will get a kite that will do anything you want it to, once you learn of course.  Heres the post on that special.  http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=4433.0


Also, where are you located?  THere are plenty of people, myself included, that are willing to let you try our kites to see what you might like and help you get started.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Randy101 on April 05, 2011, 07:12 PM
Wow!  You guys are fast!  I live in Langley, British Columbia, which is a semi-rural area about an hour from Vancouver.  I live on a farm so I have lots of room to play as long as I dodge the horses.

Being a senior who was seriously affected by the recent economic meltdown, money is an issue.  The Silver Fox looks like a great kite, but it is out of my price range.  The Hypnotist is a mild stretch that I will consider.  The French Connection looks like a great deal, but I didn't follow up on it because of concerns over shipping costs.  I'll drop him a line now and see what the damage is.

The only storefront kite shop that I know of is an hour away in Gastown (Vancouver) and they don't have a website.  I hope to get there later this week for a look around.  FYI most of the Canadian online sources for the Quantum are pricing it around $110 plus shipping.

I did find an Alpha+ on Craigslist for $50.  It's a few years old but is described as complete and in good shape.  I'm thinking about that one too but don't know much about it.

Anyway, thanks for your inputs.  They are greatly appreciated.

Regards
Randy


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: cerfvoliste on April 05, 2011, 07:33 PM
Another tough little kite that can take some slamming around and is trickier than the Quantum is the Nighthawk by Priemer.
CV


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Bob D on April 06, 2011, 04:18 AM
If you don't need something right away, you could post in the Wanted section and see what happens. A Nighthawk is good and maybe you could post for a Quantum too.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: ko on April 06, 2011, 06:54 AM
here are a couple. the quantum and the hypnotist offered by are host both are great kites. i believe the hyp. comes with a vid that is well worth a few extra bucks hope this helps http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=29 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=29)  http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=30 (http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=30)


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: cerfvoliste on April 06, 2011, 10:20 AM
If you don't need something right away, you could post in the Wanted section and see what happens. A Nighthawk is good and maybe you could post for a Quantum too.


If your Hunting a ton for a Nighthawk I think Steve might have a Connection that has them on sale for $90.
CV


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: bt on April 06, 2011, 09:14 PM
Hey Randy,
If you live in Langely, B.C. there is a great kite shop in the kids market on Granville Island in Van. I`ll pm you the website....
Also take a trip out to Garry Point Park in Steveston....that`s where the locals fly. Also at Vanier Park in Van.
I`m up on the Sunshine Coast myself....
bt


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: bigpappo1 on April 06, 2011, 09:21 PM
Don't forget he's just starting guy's. Nighthawk is a great lite, but just starting it's to small and too fast, he's going to need some wind to fly the Nighthawk. Maybe a second kite.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Bob D on April 07, 2011, 04:13 AM
The Nighthawk was one of my first kites and I didn't know it was a smaller kite. It's not a bad starter kite but a 2+ meter kite WOULD be slower. It's got pig tail attachments for the bridle to adjust for wind speed so it can fly with different wind speeds. And it's TOUGH! Bigger kites might be more money and $90 is a decent price. (I think I paid $120 for mine years ago.)


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: DWayne on April 07, 2011, 05:57 AM
here are a couple. the quantum and the hypnotist offered by are host both are great kites. i believe the hyp. comes with a vid that is well worth a few extra bucks hope this helps [url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=29[/url] ([url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=29[/url])  [url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=30[/url] ([url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=30[/url])


+1 on the hypnotist. A great starter kite that will take the abuse a beginner puts a kite through.
IMO, stay away from smaller starter kites. They make learning a lot harder than it needs to be.
BTW, buying new from a kite shop (like our host) will get you support you won't get buying a used kite.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Allen Carter on April 07, 2011, 09:38 AM
The Alpha+ is an OK kite, but not as well made and durable as the Quantum. I think the Quantum is the best all around beginner kite out there. I bought one for my daughter and have flown it quite a bit when she puts it down. It's capable of lots of stuff, so don't worry about outgrowing it.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: bigpappo1 on April 07, 2011, 10:26 AM
I agree Allen. The Quantum will take you half way or better down the road. I might add Randy kites reproduce pretty fast so go slow until you learn some, then the lid can come off.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: cerfvoliste on April 07, 2011, 12:46 PM
Don't forget he's just starting guy's. Nighthawk is a great lite, but just starting it's to small and too fast, he's going to need some wind to fly the Nighthawk. Maybe a second kite.

I think the idea that the Nighthawk is not a good choice for a beginner is ridiculous. I have seen beginners do just fine on the one I used to own. And if you think the Quantum needs less wind, then you have not flown both kites.
CV


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Ca Ike on April 07, 2011, 12:58 PM
The Nighthawk is a good starter kite as well but IMO the quantum is a bit more forgiving in the fact that it is a bit slower and a small bit more precise.  THe Nighthawk is trickier but somewhat twitchy and that makes it a bit harder to learn on.  I had both and you really can't go wrong with either one but for a truly novice flier that has little to no experience with dual line kites I lean toward the Quantum or hypnotist as a first kite and lately I prefer the hypnotist since it can do everything in the book and is tough as nails for a small bit more.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Dolphinboy on April 07, 2011, 01:08 PM
The Quantum is a sturdy, easy to fly beginner kite. If you want to learn to fly dual line kites it will take lots of abuse. The Quantum is very limited as a trick kite though and needs about 5 mph plus to get going.

If you want to learn dual line tricking, then the Nighthawk or Hypnotist will do much more trickwise. The Nighthawk is a bit smaller but it's not too fast and it will fly in less wind than the other two. Many new dual line trick fliers have made it their beginning trick kite with good results.

Peace,

James


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Ca Ike on April 07, 2011, 01:10 PM
The Quantum is a sturdy, easy to fly beginner kite. If you want to learn to fly dual line kites it will take lots of abuse. The Quantum is very limited as a trick kite though and needs about 5 mph plus to get going.

If you want to learn dual line tricking, then the Nighthawk or Hypnotist will do much more trickwise. The Nighthawk is a bit smaller but it's not too fast and it will fly in less wind than the other two. Many new dual line trick fliers have made it their beginning trick kite with good results.

Peace,

James
Right.  THe quantum will do pretty much everything but yoyo tricks without a bit of modding and thats why I started leaning toward the hypno as a starter kite. 


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: bigpappo1 on April 07, 2011, 01:41 PM
cerf
Nobody's saying the Nighthawk isn't a good kite, but it's not a beginning level kite as stated by Jon in his own add. Sure a beginning kite flyer can start on one, but a 3/4 size kite was made for stronger winds, at least that's my experience. The nighthawk is rated as a Intermediate to Advanced. Back when I owned a Nighthawk I thought the kite to have some unusual traits especially hard to deal with as a newcomer. The NH is hard to slide, hard to hold a fade, not very precise, and a greater amount of oversteer than a beginning flyer needs. Nothing worse than having a kite that's doing stuff the flyer doesn't know anything about because it's beyond his or her skill level. More than likely he'll be on his own when flying most of the time. Solid and easier to fly seems logical here. Somebody made reference to the deal Steve had on the French Connection UL that would be my recommendation of the three. For the price, trickabilty (as good or better than the Nighthawk) easier to fly, full size, and ability to take punishment it's a great kite. I've probably owned over two hundred sport kites in the past 25 years. Randy I have a Vision that I'd give you if you want to pay shipping, if the next kite that you buy you get from Steve Hall.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: DWayne on April 07, 2011, 05:24 PM
Randy, call Steve at GWTW/Chico Kites. He'll give you the best advice for your particular needs.
He's helped a lot of people get started right.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Dolphinboy on April 08, 2011, 12:05 PM
The Quantum is a sturdy, easy to fly beginner kite. If you want to learn to fly dual line kites it will take lots of abuse. The Quantum is very limited as a trick kite though and needs about 5 mph plus to get going.

If you want to learn dual line tricking, then the Nighthawk or Hypnotist will do much more trickwise. The Nighthawk is a bit smaller but it's not too fast and it will fly in less wind than the other two. Many new dual line trick fliers have made it their beginning trick kite with good results.

Peace,

James
Right.  THe quantum will do pretty much everything but yoyo tricks without a bit of modding and thats why I started leaning toward the hypno as a starter kite. 

Actually it won't "do pretty much everything but yoyo tricks". Not even close. Newbie fliers that want to get into tricking could read statements like that and end up needing to replace their kite right away. The Quantum is a fine beginner kite but it isn't tricky.

So if the OP wants to learn dual line flying, the Quantum is fine, but if they want to get into tricking, I would pick something different.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Ca Ike on April 08, 2011, 01:55 PM
The Quantum is a sturdy, easy to fly beginner kite. If you want to learn to fly dual line kites it will take lots of abuse. The Quantum is very limited as a trick kite though and needs about 5 mph plus to get going.

If you want to learn dual line tricking, then the Nighthawk or Hypnotist will do much more trickwise. The Nighthawk is a bit smaller but it's not too fast and it will fly in less wind than the other two. Many new dual line trick fliers have made it their beginning trick kite with good results.

Peace,

James
Right.  THe quantum will do pretty much everything but yoyo tricks without a bit of modding and thats why I started leaning toward the hypno as a starter kite. 

Actually it won't "do pretty much everything but yoyo tricks". Not even close. Newbie fliers that want to get into tricking could read statements like that and end up needing to replace their kite right away. The Quantum is a fine beginner kite but it isn't tricky.

So if the OP wants to learn dual line flying, the Quantum is fine, but if they want to get into tricking, I would pick something different.
Hmm I have to disagree.  I have been able to do axels, 540's, cascades, JL, backspins, insanes(though sloppy cause I'm still working on this), flic flacs, flic flac-540, A few rough slots and taz machines(also just learning these), rolling susan, coin toss, revers coin toss, flap jack and axel launch on my quantum and that just the tricks I know or have just learned.  I know a few people that have gotten roll up tricks out of it with the addition of zip ties for yoyo stops and I have done a couple roll  ups myself but unsuccessful cause I missed catching the US fittings and don't have stops on mine.  Granted its not the easiest kite to trick but it is trickable.  IT requires precise inputs for tricks like the Qpro and is not very forgiving of bad inputs.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: tpatter on April 08, 2011, 02:12 PM
Tricking that kite is like trying to pickup a dime with gloves on.  It can be done, but......


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Ca Ike on April 08, 2011, 02:22 PM
Tricking that kite is like trying to pickup a dime with gloves on.  It can be done, but......

Yes it is.  You can do it but you have to do it just right, but once you learn to trick a quantum tricking most any other kite is easy.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: mikenchico on April 08, 2011, 03:11 PM
I agree with Prism's recommendations, pure entry level is the Quantum. Already flying and know you want to move into tricks then the Hypnotist is worth the extra bucks if just for the video.

IMO the Quantum is a more well rounded kite for an entry level flier to discover what aspects of kiting they'll enjoy. It has a constant speed and good drive across the window in any wind so control comes easily, it doesn't suffer from over-steer and handles a first time fliers exaggerated inputs well. It'll get those often overlooked basics of control and precision flying down. It'll also do the first tricks you'll be learning just fine. If you get discouraged doing tricks it will still provide hours of fun & relaxation listening to that pleasant buzz & drawing figures in the sky, I highly recommend slapping a tail on it to entertain onlookers & play with the park dogs.

If you do find tricking to be rewarding then you might be looking for a trickier kite and something with a lower wind range next season. The Quantum won't go to waste though, it'll stay in the bag for friends & family or new friends on the field.



Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Randy101 on April 08, 2011, 03:32 PM
Your responses have been more than I anticipated.  Thank you all who took the time to respond and offer advice.  I've ordered a French Connection UL from Steve.  It sounds like it'll be a little "trickier" than the Quantum and better on calmer days.  And the price point is outstanding.

I expect there'll be more to come when I can afford it ::).  Just as a side note, the same thing happened to me with airguns.  HMMM, that Crosman 2240 looks like fun, oh wow, did you see that Alecto, the Drozd is a BB machine gun?, you've got to be kidding, etc. etc.  If any of you are into airguns as well, please come by and see us at http://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/. (http://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/.)

Thanks again, Everyone, and I'll drop a line to let you know how the new endeavour is going.

Regards
Randy


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: ko on April 08, 2011, 06:26 PM
glad to here you got a kite! sounds like if you dont like it you can use it for target practice LOL let us know how it goes , and HAVE FUN  KO


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: cerfvoliste on April 09, 2011, 05:36 PM
  I've ordered a French Connection UL from Steve.  It sounds like it'll be a little "trickier" than the Quantum and better on calmer days.  And the price point is outstanding.

Regards
Randy

Glad you took the plunge. You can't go wrong with some advice from Steve. There should be a nationally syndicated column called "Ask Steve". He set me straight on my first kite.

CV


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: mikenchico on April 10, 2011, 12:13 AM
I think that's a great choice, and that deal Steve has on it can't be beat.

As I recall the line set that came with my standard was pretty equal but as with any factory line set you really should check, stretch and equalize them if needed before your first flight. It really helps to avoid an unpleasant first experience with your new kite.

Hook both loops of the kite end of the lines over something stationary, say a nail in the corral post, and unroll them, pull evenly on the straps with say 30-40 lbs pressure for a minute or two then check that the lengths are still even.

Enjoy your new kite.



Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Ca Ike on April 10, 2011, 12:19 AM
True mike.  pretty much every NTK line set I have ever gotten was uneven and un stretched so plan on evening them out and prestretching them as one of the first things you do when you get the kite Randy.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: DB on May 08, 2011, 04:00 PM
I am also a newbie, and bought a Quantum as my first kite. However, after four months I am not convinced this is all that great of a kite. Maybe it's just my lack of experience and the fact that I am depending on online videos to self-teach myself, but I find the Quantum to be big, bulky, heavy and slow to respond (lots of pull). Also, the wind conditions for this kite are listed in the 4-5 mph range (low end) and I can't get this thing off the ground in much less than 10 mph -- much less keep it airbone. After months I have yet to be able to really say that I am even intermediate at a single trick.  :-[


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Ca Ike on May 08, 2011, 06:30 PM
I would say its more lack of experience DB.  THe sweet spot for tricking the quantum is 6-12.  However there are a few settings you need to do.  First I found the best adjustment range for the bridle is middle to low wind and the "forgiving" tow point setting.  Most of the time I leave it at the low wind setting.  THe second thing I did was get a 85'x100# line set to use for tricking.  The stock line set is a bit heavy for low wind tricking in that it has a lot of drag.

Another tip I can give you is get ahold of a video camera and start filming your practice sessions.  Being able to watch yourself fly and compare what your doing to the tutorial vids helped me out a lot since I fly solo most of the time.


Title: Re: Recommendations vs. Quantum
Post by: Allen Carter on May 08, 2011, 06:58 PM
In the grand scheme of things, the Quantum is a pretty small kite. Anything less "bulky" is generally harder to learn on because they're faster and more sensitive. Pull is just something to get used to. While the Quantum has good pull for a kite it's size, it's much less than many full size kites. Judging the wind quality is part of the learning experience. Some of what you said could be attributed to bad ground wind, or gusty winds or both.