GWTW Forum

Kites! Kites! Kites! => Photos and Videos => Topic started by: vertigo2u on July 06, 2011, 06:58 AM



Title: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: vertigo2u on July 06, 2011, 06:58 AM
Shane,I thought about you yesterday.. Having lunch at locaL bURGER kING  :D

Your Video's inspire me very much..so did the last one posted.  Damn guys can fly so well.  To people who do not like my video's.  When you see my name or chessy face.  Skip my post.  ;D  That simple.  If not then, I guess the group said it for me.  You get ignored and rejected.  Congradultaions on making an idiot of yourself.   Rejection and abandonment are painful emotions.  Why even put yourself in that position on some internet site.  Unless it's a pattern of life for some people.  Not being loved does have it's consequences.  ???

Mamba,540's and Sunset.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYdiq0UKvrw#)



Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: adx1592 on July 06, 2011, 07:30 AM
the 540 around the 238 mark is my favorite, just above the sun. Great moment.
Im really glad you decided to get a Mamba, you seem to really like it. The colors are still one of my favorites too.  :)
See ya today at 1. Goodjob!


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Shane on July 06, 2011, 07:48 AM
I got to it before my lunch... :D :D :D

Awesome! Looking good man. I love the 540 at 1:47!! great job man. And to think, a week ago or so you didn't think you'd be doin a 540.  :) Great job.

I was flying yesterday and think I might finally have a true half axel down... I had somehow been doing them upside downt this whole time ::) ::) Oh well... it happens when you fly alone... I also have finally figured out the idea of a jacobs ladder and did a taz on accident... (I love that move)

I will be trying to film this weekend so maybe sunday or monday I'll have a new one on here for you to watch as well.

Thanks for posting!
Great wind!!
Shane


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: obijuankenobe on July 06, 2011, 10:37 AM
Video should have been just one second longer. 

 8)

obi


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Ace on July 06, 2011, 03:48 PM
Vertigo
The problems are not with your videos, If you want to post them fine. Members will watch them and comment.
The problems lay within the general forum membership. GWTW is vastly becoming a forum for the beginner offering very little for the seasoned pilot. (Not me of course) Some members still fly kites from the 90's if not 80's and think their awesome for it and qualified to comment on everything kiting. Many have flown for years, still can't trick all that well, yet carry significant influence on this forum. They ignore or fail to acknowledge that kiting has moved on, younger trickier pilots are out their flying some really cool stuff. (Especially from overseas) 8)

This is evident by both professional video's and professional reviews that have been posted previously. (R-sky, SKD, L'Attelier, Benson and others) Good pilots, the best pilots, invest weeks into their video's, countless hours sifting through a ton of video, editing, securing rights to music, adding production value, scenery, time lapse, credits etc etc. only to post their video's here and be met with general disinterest, get 2-maybe 3 responses from members only interested in local kites or kites of yesteryear. No questions as to, whats that kite? how does it perform? where do I get it? who's the Pilot?  Same goes for reviews. Well written well executed professional reviews from the best people out there. Yet no real interest or questions. (unless the kite again is locally made or from 1971???) :-[

Yet a noob posts a video flying in circles and several pages of posts and praise are heaped upon them from all in sundry. It's a little frustrating for the great guys out their flying the flag for our sport. The guys that want to discuss tricks, not stacks and tails, the guys that want to compete and show off their skill. Yes the very guys you and others personally criticize.  :(

At the end of the day kiting is fun. Don't let a couple of joke posts get to you to the point where you launch personal attacks, even if you have the moderators on your side. We're all adults here :P
 


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: thief on July 06, 2011, 04:43 PM
I am still going to offer the same advice: pick up that ProDancer SUL and go out in very low winds...you will have it down darn fast....
sometimes having all of the trick kites out there does not help if the kites you have cannot help you do a maneuver....
The 540 is an old school move...that an old skool kite will do extremely well...and especially if it is a super low wind kite and super low wind....the kite will move slow enough so you can see what is going on.....


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: ko on July 06, 2011, 06:39 PM
they are built into my exile. it is hard not to get flat tricks out of it


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: RobB on July 06, 2011, 06:47 PM
Vertigo
The problems are not with your videos, If you want to post them fine. Members will watch them and comment.
The problems lay within the general forum membership. GWTW is vastly becoming a forum for the beginner offering very little for the seasoned pilot. (Not me of course) Some members still fly kites from the 90's if not 80's and think their awesome for it and qualified to comment on everything kiting. Many have flown for years, still can't trick all that well, yet carry significant influence on this forum. They ignore or fail to acknowledge that kiting has moved on, younger trickier pilots are out their flying some really cool stuff. (Especially from overseas) 8)This is evident by both professional video's and professional reviews that have been posted previously. (R-sky, SKD, L'Attelier, Benson and others) Good pilots, the best pilots, invest weeks into their video's, countless hours sifting through a ton of video, editing, securing rights to music, adding production value, scenery, time lapse, credits etc etc. only to post their video's here and be met with general disinterest, get 2-maybe 3 responses from members only interested in local kites or kites of yesteryear. No questions as to, whats that kite? how does it perform? where do I get it? who's the Pilot?  Same goes for reviews. Well written well executed professional reviews from the best people out there. Yet no real interest or questions. (unless the kite again is locally made or from 1971???) :-[

Yet a noob posts a video flying in circles and several pages of posts and praise are heaped upon them from all in sundry. It's a little frustrating for the great guys out their flying the flag for our sport. The guys that want to discuss tricks, not stacks and tails, the guys that want to compete and show off their skill. Yes the very guys you and others personally criticize.  :(

At the end of the day kiting is fun. Don't let a couple of joke posts get to you to the point where you launch personal attacks, even if you have the moderators on your side. We're all adults here :P
 
Hey Ace...
Maybe you're on the wrong forum. The forum goes in the direction of interest of the members. Kiting is fun... it's a pastime, it's hardly a sport. Maybe kite boarding (water, land, snow) is a sport, but stunt kite flying, whether on 2 lines or 4 is just a skill, a hobby. If you think of it as a sport, you might be taking it too seriously. 
It may have 'moved on' in other places, like 'overseas', so maybe you should visit those forums instead... Stop poking the bear.
~Rob.

Hey Vert,
I forgot to say that I enjoyed your video, a nice, artsy shot into the sun... the way the light plays with the panels of the kite, looks really cool. Nice vid !


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: ko on July 06, 2011, 07:00 PM

Stop poking the bear.
~Rob.
good 1


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Ace on July 06, 2011, 07:31 PM
Rob, I frequent this forum to learn from pilots who are much better at this than me. Sadly more and more of these guys are being ostracized and bullied into going elsewhere because the masses don't want to discuss anything other than what they know. Your previous post is just another example of this. Go ELSEWHERE!
If you don't tow the line, SHIP OUT!'

Apologies I was unaware that this forum was reserved only for geriatric hobbyist's who like to fly kites in circles.
Also I refuse to believe all the Pilot's in the US fall in this category, that is an insult to them and others who take this Hobby seriously.. This is one of the larger forums with a wealth of experience at hand. Why limit it to discussions of yesteryear and bad advise.

Disappointing, Thats All :(
 


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Doc Z on July 06, 2011, 07:51 PM
We're talking about kites here, right? 


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: RobB on July 06, 2011, 07:52 PM
Ace,
It's not a matter of pushing out the serious, skilled crowd... it's a matter of being civil. How does it go ? If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything ?  ;)
~Rob.


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Steve Hall on July 06, 2011, 08:06 PM
Quote
Sadly more and more of these guys are being ostracized and bullied into going elsewhere
Examples please.


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Ace on July 06, 2011, 08:26 PM
Yesterday was one good example...


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Steve Hall on July 06, 2011, 08:53 PM
Frazer?  Are you saying that Frazer was bullied in to leaving the forum?  And that we will some how miss his "expertise" here?


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Kantaxel on July 06, 2011, 09:06 PM
Kinda looks like this issue isn't over yet?  Ace..............kinda barkin' up the wrong flagploe here, aren't ya?

I take issue with being called geriatric.......I may be older than you, but I can still function quite well, thank you very much.....It seems that in order, in your opinion, to enjoy this Hobby, as it's been called, one must attain a certain level of skill or else be banished from use in the Photos and Videos section.........Seems like all egomaniacs like to instill their own appreciation of the hobby on every one else,,,,,,,,,,Rather 'hitleresque' I'd say.......Still you ought not to poke our Grizzly benefactor before he removes this Forum from existence.

Just a nickle and a penny's worth ::)


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Ace on July 06, 2011, 09:48 PM
Skill level is irrelevant, That was my original point. This forum should be for all people beginner and experienced. Is it wrong to point out if someone is incorrect in a recommendation, says something outrageous or to have a bit of tongue in cheek fun :o

Not looking to upset anyone at all, my comments were not targeted at individuals just a generalization.

BTW I would call telling someone to crawl back under a rock as bullying. :-[



Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Steve Hall on July 06, 2011, 09:54 PM
Quote
Skill level is irrelevant, That was my original point. This forum should be for all people beginner and experienced.
fair enough ... I agree completely
Quote
Is it wrong to point out if someone is incorrect in a recommendation, says something outrageous or to have a bit of tongue in cheek fun
Not at all, but it needs to be used judiciously and that it be good natured and not mean spirited.


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Ca Ike on July 06, 2011, 10:11 PM
Vertigo
The problems are not with your videos, If you want to post them fine. Members will watch them and comment.
The problems lay within the general forum membership. GWTW is vastly becoming a forum for the beginner offering very little for the seasoned pilot. (Not me of course) Some members still fly kites from the 90's if not 80's and think their awesome for it and qualified to comment on everything kiting. Many have flown for years, still can't trick all that well, yet carry significant influence on this forum. They ignore or fail to acknowledge that kiting has moved on, younger trickier pilots are out their flying some really cool stuff. (Especially from overseas) 8)
 DIfferent pilots enjoy different styles of flying.  To condemn them for it and say they are stuck in the past is callous.  

NOw you say kiting has moved on well I must ask how so?  The axel, 540 and lazy susan are  in the first tricks ever invented and are still as popular today as they were then. So, since kiting has moved on should we stop using those tricks all together?  IF you really want to get technical and break down a few of the new tricks the Taz and slot machines are just 540's with a different entry into the flare. Same goes for snap lazy, cynique(lazy cascade), lewis, just variations on the original.  IF you "move on" from the kiting past and eliminate the base tricks then you effectively eliminate all the new stuff since they are all built on the original base tricks (axel, backflip, fade).  Believe it or not the kites from the 80's and 90's can do a lot of the tricks and some can do them all with a bit of additional hardware (mainly yoyo stops).  I'm not trying to be an ass here I just want to understand what you mean.

Quote
This is evident by both professional video's and professional reviews that have been posted previously. (R-sky, SKD, L'Attelier, Benson and others) Good pilots, the best pilots, invest weeks into their video's, countless hours sifting through a ton of video, editing, securing rights to music, adding production value, scenery, time lapse, credits etc etc. only to post their video's here and be met with general disinterest, get 2-maybe 3 responses from members only interested in local kites or kites of yesteryear. No questions as to, whats that kite? how does it perform? where do I get it? who's the Pilot?  Same goes for reviews. Well written well executed professional reviews from the best people out there. Yet no real interest or questions. (unless the kite again is locally made or from 1971???) :-[
 JUst because there are no replies doesn't mean it isn't found useful or enjoyed. There are a few on here that I have gotten info and advice from, yet have never replied to one of their posts.  As for your local made comment, that goes both ways.  There are some overseas that won't buy and american made kite no matter how good it may be.  WE all have our preferences and there is nothing wrong with it.

Quote
Yet a noob posts a video flying in circles and several pages of posts and praise are heaped upon them from all in sundry. It's a little frustrating for the great guys out their flying the flag for our sport. The guys that want to discuss tricks, not stacks and tails, the guys that want to compete and show off their skill. Yes the very guys you and others personally criticize.  :(
 Again different people like different aspects of kiting and people will post about what they like or don't like when they want to post.   Personally I won't post any more of my vids on here because, like Vertigo, I still ask for help on things and some on here can't do anything but critisize and be insulting so I have found another place for that.

Quote
At the end of the day kiting is fun. Don't let a couple of joke posts get to you to the point where you launch personal attacks, even if you have the moderators on your side. We're all adults here :P
 
I agree here, but if the posts were jokes then it would have been better not to post at all because they didn't come across as jokes but big insults.

I actually think Vertigo has a lot of guts to post his vids after all the BS.  He's out having fun, learning new things all the time and wants to share his enjoyment with the rest of us and ,as a few new fliers have pointed out, seeing his progression or lack there of has inspired and shown them things.  Its good to see both sides of kiting, the beginer learning as well as the "pro". It does help to know your not the only one struggling as well as what can be achieved.


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Ca Ike on July 06, 2011, 10:20 PM
Skill level is irrelevant, That was my original point. This forum should be for all people beginner and experienced.
  Couldn't agree more.
Quote
Is it wrong to point out if someone is incorrect in a recommendation, says something outrageous or to have a bit of tongue in cheek fun :o
  NOt at all but one only has to look at some of the lam kite threads to see how easily that can get out of hand and tempers flare.

Quote
BTW I would call telling someone to crawl back under a rock as bullying. :-[
IF you knew the history surrounding the person this was aimed at not only on this forum but a few others as well then you would understand where this came from.  I agree though that this type of comment is best left unsaid.


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: adx1592 on July 06, 2011, 10:39 PM
I won't miss anything he said. Everything I saw from him was negative.
Also I wont be going anywhere, thank you. I think this place is a good one for novice-masters flyers. Just depends where you look. We can all learn from anything.

Joe is getting pretty good pretty quick. Everything we fly there's a difference. Idk why people can't just be happy with that and move on. He's probably one of the most enthusiastic people I've met in kiting in terms of drive to learn. We should all follow that example even if we're one of the best, or one of the rookies.

Please lets get back on topic here. This is gotten to be WAYYYY to ridiculous.  ???

540s anyone?



Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: obijuankenobe on July 07, 2011, 12:58 AM
I had ranted here...but I think I missed Ace's point. 

After rereading his post, I still don't quite get it, but anyway....

I do think Ace is overestimating what the young have given to the sport.  And I do think that Ace underestimates how many of the old guys here CAN trick, but aren't particularly focused on or impressed by it.

After all, backspins are exceedingly boring after day 2.  The comete is just tugging unless incorporated as an intentional change in direction, or combined as an entry or exit of another trick.  Multilazies are not only boring, but on many kites they look terrible.  And the yo-fade is a complete flow breaker.

Many were studying Mayet and DeBray before we picked up lines for the first time.  Is it any wonder that then, after all this time, they are not so impressed when someone makes a video with sloppy old tricks and little or no fine kite control?

Where are the new tricks all these young guys are doing?  Honestly, I haven't seen one in a long long time...with the exception of Chris Goff's wing-tip-bouncing-taz machine. 

obi


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Bob D on July 07, 2011, 04:43 AM
I'm kind of surprised by this thread. When Steve moved to the new site, it seemed we lost the people who tended to flame and insult and I was really glad about that. (I had been belittled by someone who seems to get a lot of credit for abusing other members and didn't appreciate it.) I can't remember reading any abuse until recently and I didn't think it was right but I decided to keep quiet about it because I didn't want to get abused in return. (The people who abuse others seem to have big egos and are bullies - not my kind of people.)

That said, I think the new forum is kinder and gentler and I like to do my part to encourage others because I love kites. I can't understand why someone would discourage someone and comment that their posting is a waste of bandwidth.

I've been a member of the forum for a long time and it's the one forum that I'm most comfortable with. (Though I DO miss Nosedivers. I can't seem to find out what happened there.) This is such a small community that we need each other if we want to support our kite buildingers and grow our hobby. I say keep posting vids and looking for help and asking for opinions - 99% of the people here at any skill level are glad to help. Good riddance to those who can't play nice. Like Thumper says, "If you don't got nothin' nice to say, don't say nothin' at all."




Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: RonG on July 07, 2011, 07:19 AM
Just a few thoughts from everything I've read here:

- New fliers have always been welcome on this forum, and have generally been received with open arms.  Even on the "old" site.  Yes, there have been exceptions both then and now, but it often depended a lot on how the new person behaved.  Those earnestly looking for advice and a community have rarely had issues.  Those arriving with an attitude or a chip on their shoulder...they had their share of run-ins.  This is an observation from many years on the GWTW forums, and no, I'm not saying it applies to the OP.

- The old forum allowed for a lot more "spirited", and yes, sometimes downright nasty exchanges, and that turned off a lot of people.  OTOH it was also at the forefront of huge changes in the US sport kite scene, changes that everyone here benefits from now.  It was there that many US fliers, both recreational and competitive, got their first glimpse of the modern class of European kites, and the flying styles that accompanied them.  Then once we had a handle on the kites and the tricks, it was from the ranks of GWTW members that the US representatives to the first and only Freestyle World Cup were chosen. It was there that several manufacturers, designers and their reps ran subforums dedicated to helping anyone with questions.  The old forum was where we came to discuss, debate, socialize and learn during a very exciting time in US sport kiting.  Anyone who remembers it as just a nasty old place full of cretinous low-lifes either wasn't around long enough to know, or wasn't really paying attention.

- Frankly I don't care what kind of videos people post of themselves flying.  I can usually tell by the subject line if it's something I'll want to watch, or at least within the first 10 seconds of watching it.  If I don't like it, I don't watch it.  Easy, and no comments necessary.

- Not sure how "old guy" got automatically associated with "no real skills and flies moldy old kites".  I'm an old guy and I'm pretty spry.  I'm not going to try to keep up with Chris Goff these days, but I can still throw down pretty good on the field.  Likewise for a few other "old guys" I know.

- Big egos are a fact of life in this and any other pursuit.  Most of the truly gifted fliers I have known have had fairly big egos, and it's often part of what drives them to excel.  Doesn't mean you have to be a bully, though.

- I urge anyone who says "it's just kites, not a big deal and don't take it seriously" to consider what their kite bag would look like if every person who touched a kite thought that way.  People who develop great kites and the flying skills that others like to watch and emulate have generally taken kites pretty seriously.  There's a difference between being a pr!ck and taking kite seriously.

Thanks for listening.


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: vertigo2u on July 07, 2011, 08:37 AM
My dimes worth.. :D :D :D


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: thief on July 07, 2011, 08:50 AM
and this is exactly how we have a habit of getting off track..............


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: zippy8 on July 07, 2011, 09:09 AM
So... are we in favour of sleeving or not ? I'm confused. :-[

Mike.


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Kantaxel on July 07, 2011, 09:25 AM
So... are we in favour of sleeving or not ? I'm confused. :-[

Mike.

From everything I've read here.............We ARE in FAVOR of sleeving.............WE ALL know that an unsleeved knot loses more than fifty percent of it's strength.............That is a FACT!

 :-[


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Bob D on July 07, 2011, 09:48 AM
Good. Let's tie it off and lock it down now...


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: Allen Carter on July 07, 2011, 12:30 PM
Who's going to take this sport to the Olympics, if not the young pilots? They need our support!!!  ::)

 :D


Oh, and well said Ron. As usual. For an old guy.




(that was my 1000th post. Cool.)


Title: Re: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.
Post by: chilese on July 07, 2011, 12:34 PM
In honor of Allen's 1000th post.

In the words of another:

Let's tie it off and lock it down now...
 :)