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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: THE ONE on September 26, 2011, 07:45 AM



Title: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 26, 2011, 07:45 AM
Hi, I am new to this forum and am very pleased that there are so many sport kite flyers out there. I have been flying for about 6 months now, so I know I am new and do not know much, but I have couple questions;

1. Can anyone tell me how to put a kite in FADE from flying up (all you have proboable terminology for this). I saw few videos that show flyers starting from the ground flying up and then all of a sudden they rotate the kite into FADE. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

2. I have very hard time rolling the kite. Currently I am flying the Widow and it comes with yoyo stoppers. When flying up, I can flare the kite backwords but when I am trying to pop it forward it just resumes flying up, it doesn't want to come forward for the strong pop. Please help. I have adjusted my bristle back so it will allow me to fly in a lighter winds. Because it is back, can this stop me from doing a roll up?

Once again, thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: tpatter on September 26, 2011, 08:34 AM

On 1)
I see most doing this with a broken-axel to fade.   You essentially do half of an axel until the kite is nose away (as in a flare) and then pull to the fade.   You can also do this one by popping one line (like the axel), and then pulling the other line to bring the nose around, and then applying tension to both lines in order to catch the kite in a fade.

On 2)
I think the easiest way to roll up on that kite would be the one pop.   Fly up and when you are about half way up the window, pull hard to create a lot of sail pressure and then immediately throw your arms forward and perhaps even step forward as well.  The kite will roll right around so be ready to more gently reapply line tension in order to catch the lines and then fly off rolled up.  The tension-build and then release should be very fast and you need enough slack to allow the kite to rotate or the lines will prevent the rollup.

I recommend getting Dodds flying video, he covers the first and I think also the second.

Welcome to freestyle by the way!  :)


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 26, 2011, 09:00 AM
Quote
On 1)
I see most doing this with a broken-axel to fade.   You essentially do half of an axel until the kite is nose away (as in a flare) and then pull to the fade.   You can also do this one by popping one line (like the axel), and then pulling the other line to bring the nose around, and then applying tension to both lines in order to catch the kite in a fade.
Thanks a lot for advice. I understand what you are suggesting and I have tried this but everytime I flare the kite and than trying to bring the nose up, the kite catches the wind and flyes towards the ground. It is one of two things from what I can see; either I am not pulling hard enough or I do not give enough slack. I do not know, I guess I keep trying.  :(

Quote
On 2)
I think the easiest way to roll up on that kite would be the one pop.   Fly up and when you are about half way up the window, pull hard to create a lot of sail pressure and then immediately throw your arms forward and perhaps even step forward as well.  The kite will roll right around so be ready to more gently reapply line tension in order to catch the lines and then fly off rolled up.  The tension-build and then release should be very fast and you need enough slack to allow the kite to rotate or the lines will prevent the rollup.

I have tried numerous times what you just said, but as far as back I can go is just to "turttle" position and no matter how much slack I give it just stays there.  :-[


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: DWayne on September 26, 2011, 09:27 AM
Adjusting your bridle so the upper outhaul is the shortest length allowed by your adjustment knots will give the kite the most forward drive and make roll ups a bit easier.

Denny


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: tpatter on September 26, 2011, 09:28 AM
If you have a camera and can post a video of what you are doing, that is probably the best way to see what is wrong.

On 1) have you tried the pancake to fade?  You fly down and then flare and then lift for the fade.  I think this is an easier way to start and it will also allow you to get the feel for the flare to fade move.

On 2) it is probably just a speed thing.  The initial snap and the release can be fairly intense initially and then you can back it off to only what you need.  Its a speed move, not a power move.  Apply pressure and then immediately release it all in less than a half-second.   If you think about what will happen, the kite will essentially 'bounce' off the sail pressure and then pitch around itself.  Like throwing a ball at a wall, you have to throw it hard enough to bounce back so you can catch it.



Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 26, 2011, 09:47 AM
Quote
have you tried the pancake to fade?  You fly down and then flare and then lift for the fade
Quote
it is probably just a speed thing

All your comments start to make more and more sense. It seems that with a lot of tricks, it is not about "pulling hard" but it is about the speed and timing. I have lot to learn, but I will enjoy every step of the way.

I will also try DWayne suggestions with bridle adjustment, becasue as it is now it is totally the other way.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: Kantaxel on September 26, 2011, 09:53 AM
Sometimes when starting out it is easier to take the kite all the way to the top of the window, square in the middle to where the kite is starting to stall, trow your arms forward and take a step or two forward.  The widow should roll right around and then you can fly off.  Wind speed shouldn't really be a factor, but more will keep the kite centered and easier to catch the stoppers.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 26, 2011, 11:16 AM
Another great point, I will have to start there and see where I end up. Maybe ohh maybe one day all my tricks will be closer to the ground.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: obijuankenobe on September 26, 2011, 12:12 PM
Flying straight up and then popping into a fade can only be a.....

YO-FADE.

All of you failed here.   :D

obi


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: Shane on September 26, 2011, 12:15 PM
Flying straight up and then popping into a fade can only be a.....

YO-FADE.

All of you failed here.   :D

obi

... Isn't flying straight "down" and popping into a fade a YO-FADE???   ;) ;) ;)

Shane


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: obijuankenobe on September 26, 2011, 01:21 PM
Wow.  You're right. 

Who failed?   :D

obi


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 26, 2011, 01:29 PM
So what do you call it when you flying straight up and then popping intoa fade?


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: obijuankenobe on September 26, 2011, 01:33 PM
Well, now that I have been appropriately taken down a peg.   :D

Seriously, maybe you can post a link to one of the videos you refer to.

I am pretty sure that strictly speaking, you can't just pop directly into a fade flying straight up.

obi


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: DWayne on September 26, 2011, 01:34 PM
So what do you call it when you flying straight up and then popping into a fade?

You can't fly straight up and pop into a fade.
You can fly straight up and half axel into a fade.
You can fly straight up and pop into the beginning of a crazy copter.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 26, 2011, 01:43 PM
You are correct, you cannot pop into a fade when flying straight up. This is actually straight up and half axel into a fade. I apologize for the confusion.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: John Welden on September 26, 2011, 02:55 PM
Good way to learn getting into the fade is start with the kite nose away on the ground and then gently pull-tug and the kite will rotate around into a fade.  This technique at least teaches you the feel for what it takes to rotate into a fade.   Practice in lighter winds where you kite isn't wanting to blow away when it's nose away.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: RobB on September 26, 2011, 06:35 PM
Good way to learn getting into the fade is start with the kite nose away on the ground and then gently pull-tug and the kite will rotate around into a fade.  This technique at least teaches you the feel for what it takes to rotate into a fade.   Practice in lighter winds  where you kite isn't wanting to blow away when it's nose away.

I think that says volumes. Practicing your tricks in winds that barely fly the kite will help to learn tricks faster. Most of my mistakes revolve around not giving enough slack, and light winds help that a lot. I would imagine that ~5mph would be what to look for. Have fun !
~Rob.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: adx1592 on September 26, 2011, 08:48 PM
Hey! I noticed you're from bartlett IL. Thats about 40 mins or so outside of Chicago. I live on the gold coast and if you'd like to meet up at one point or another and I can try and help you the best I can, I'd be more then happy to. My days are pretty packed but I'm sure at one point we can find a time for both of us that will work smoothly, if you'd like.

Good luck!


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 27, 2011, 04:44 AM
Quote
Hey! I noticed you're from bartlett IL. Thats about 40 mins or so outside of Chicago. I live on the gold coast and if you'd like to meet up at one point or another and I can try and help you the best I can, I'd be more then happy to. My days are pretty packed but I'm sure at one point we can find a time for both of us that will work smoothly, if you'd like.


It is good to here about flyers that live in the same area. Being in a gold coast where do you fly? In my area, I was seen no one, not even one person, but there are some "quad" flyers.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: adx1592 on September 27, 2011, 04:52 AM
Usually (when I have time, which has only been once so far) I'll fly to the beaches that you can only get to by walking so that there aren't more people there, or I'll take the redline then the 147 to northerly island.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 27, 2011, 06:16 AM
I always thought that Northerly Island was overcrawded, but if you say it is a good spot, next time I am in the area, I will give it a shot. Thanks for the advise.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: madhabitz on September 27, 2011, 10:56 AM
Hey! I noticed you're from bartlett IL. Thats about 40 mins or so outside of Chicago. I live on the gold coast and if you'd like to meet up at one point or another and I can try and help you the best I can, I'd be more then happy to. My days are pretty packed but I'm sure at one point we can find a time for both of us that will work smoothly, if you'd like.
I always thought that Northerly Island was overcrawded, but if you say it is a good spot, next time I am in the area, I will give it a shot. Thanks for the advise.

Oh man, don't pass up on this offer of connecting up with Devin! This guy is phenomenal! I'd give just about anything to be able to meet him and learn a thing or three from him. I've learned a ton from his posts and from watching all of the videos with him as pilot-- I can't imagine how cool it would be to learn from him in person. He seems like a heck of a nice guy, too.

This is a fantastic opportunity!!

Nancy


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 27, 2011, 11:03 AM
Quote
all of the videos with him as pilot

Can you point me in a right direction where I can find some of his videos?


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 27, 2011, 08:01 PM
Devin, let me know when you will be flying in Chicago next time and where, I would love to learn few things from you. I am new to flying and there is no one in my area to fly with or learn from. After reading a lot of posts in this forum everyone says that the best way to learn is from other flyers, so if you still open to the idea, I will take you up on your offer. Thanks again.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: madhabitz on September 28, 2011, 02:28 AM
Can you point me in a right direction where I can find some of his videos?


Sorry I'm so late in getting back to you. I don't have a list of all the videos-- he just happens to be flying a kite in about a gazillion of the videos I've watched on the forum here and over at YouTube. I did a quick search on YouTube for you to get started (below).

Sidenote to Devin: I had a good laugh when I did the video search. There was one where you were playing your horn (you're really good!!) and it hit me that was the first time I could see your face. By now, I think I could recognize your backside across a football field. ;-)


Skyburner Solus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edIDSjrJP4o#ws)

BMK Nitro Mamba Standard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z611yoCVMr8#ws)

Devin @2:54
Skyburner Ocius Standard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATaQ46CVn5Y#ws)

Skyburner Inak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jroByrF6q4A#ws)





Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: THE ONE on September 28, 2011, 05:07 AM
Madhabitz, thanks again for for the uploads. It is amazing how you can watch this videos over over, also what he can do with the kites is just unbelivable. Thanks again.


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: adx1592 on September 28, 2011, 06:58 AM
Lol Madhabitz, thanks.  :) To be honest that was a god awful recording though haha! That was a under rehearsed community group, bad arranging (someone in the band arranged that to make the program longer), and me and dana being the soloists (that was high school...) didn't get the music until about 4 days a head of time bahaha! The 'good old days,' right? lol. I've been trying to get Katy (friend who uploaded that) to take it down for years. Hopefully I can get some video of my quartet/rectials/studio recitals durring our performances this year. We've been planning some big stuff for quite a while and we have a really talented studio this year (big though... 12 people  ??? ! )

THE ONE- sorry I haven't replied to your pms yet. I have a rhythm&intonation and conducting exam so I'll reply tonight. Hope to see you around soon!


Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: mikenchico on September 28, 2011, 07:27 AM
Of course you can see all of Devins vids by visiting his channel @

http://www.youtube.com/user/DevinC049#p/u (http://www.youtube.com/user/DevinC049#p/u)

and maybe some more at Wayne Brunjes channel here

http://www.youtube.com/user/wbrunjes1#p/u (http://www.youtube.com/user/wbrunjes1#p/u)



Title: Re: Fade and Roll Up
Post by: madhabitz on September 29, 2011, 01:25 PM
Devin, it would be great if you could get some of your music online. I love that stuff!