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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: tpatter on October 18, 2011, 10:21 PM



Title: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: tpatter on October 18, 2011, 10:21 PM
I recently picked up a Nirvana.  The first time out, I really enjoyed the kite all around and felt right at home with it, but wasn't happy with the yo-yos - they were just too much work.  Everything else is sweet and the kite flys very well with great drive even in low wind.  I am finally getting the Taz and this kite does them sweetly and oh so easily - the nose readily goes high and it flat-spins pretty well.

I did a little research and found some suggestions of tweaks that others have tried - the RTG bridle,  shortening the upper spreader, and adding more tail weight.

I tied a new RTG bridle and I like it even more than the original, but the yo-yos were not significantly better.   

I tried a shorter (49) upper spreader and that certainly did the trick - the kite would yoyo faster and more easily, but still wasn't curling my toes and it seemed to lose some precision as well (although it was still very good). 

Finally, I added more weight.  I don't know how much weigh the kite came with (seems like 18g from their website), but it does have a weight glued into the tail of the spine - mine is also framed in Icone (not sure if that makes a difference concerning how much tail-weight you may need, but it seems like it could).   After adding 15g to the tail - it reallly woke up the yo-yo and I am now in Nirvana.  I even went back to the original upper spreader and the kite still works very well all around including nice, eager yo-yos.  I'm having some fun with the kite.

So, what have others tried and found has worked with their Nirvanas?  How much do you add (if any)?


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: zippy8 on October 19, 2011, 01:19 AM
I recently picked up a Nirvana.

Finally a proper kite  :P

Quote
So, what have others tried and found has worked with their Nirvanas?  How much do you add (if any)?

This is one of the oddities of the Nirvana - there are a myriad of different frames, bridles, weightings, etc. and yet all of them seem to produce A Good Kite. Even production versions have varied quite a lot over the years, nevermind "official" tweaks and numerous home-brewed approaches, but it's hard to shake off the essential Nirvana-y-ness.

That said, I seriously doubt that there is one magic setup out there that everyone will prefer. It's less of a Universal Constant and more of a moveable feast (unlike some kites that must have an upper spreader of 48.5cm or they burst into flames, sulk in the corner and molest your cat). If you want more Yoyoitude, either more on the turbo leg (if it's a dynamic bridle) or more weight (if you simply must). Although another 15g. on an already weighted up kites seems like a big jump for such a fundamentally sorted kite like the Nirvana.

Is this (http://reeddesign.co.uk/pdf/NirvanaBridles.pdf) already known to you ?

Mike.


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: Kantaxel on October 19, 2011, 02:14 AM

Finally a proper kite  :P


Debatable, but an improper statement nonetheless ;D


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: Krijn on October 19, 2011, 04:23 AM
I once had a NSE and added 12gr to that kite for better Yoyo-ing.
I know the Nirvana and NSE are different kites, but they are not that different.

Krijn


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: tpatter on October 19, 2011, 11:24 AM
Finally a proper kite  :P


I've got a whole bag full or proper kites!  I felt that it would be good to have a kite that many flyers regularly and highly regard as a comparison to my usual kites.  I do this often and usually end up selling them off, but I think I will keep this one in the bag!  :)

Quote
Is this ([url]http://reeddesign.co.uk/pdf/NirvanaBridles.pdf[/url]) already known to you ?

Mike.


Thanks for the link - a great resource.  That was the site that I used to create my RTG bridle.

I will experiment with adjusting the turbo leg and also trying to lighten up the weight a bit (if mine is up to specs, then I'm hauling 18+15=33g on the tail), although the kite flys like a dream now as-is.  Somehow, I think for whatever reason, my built-in weight is far lighter than 18g.

One other question.  Does the external Nirvana weight kite which looks like a brass cyclinder (not the one that attaches above the velcro) simply fit onto the bottom of the spine weight in the NFE?


Thanks,
-Tom


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: Smeagol on October 19, 2011, 12:21 PM
Hmm, I haven't tried that upper spreader idea yet, maybe I'll make one up and give it a try.  Is it 49cm for the NFE & NSE?

thanks,
  Mike


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: tpatter on October 19, 2011, 01:11 PM
Hmm, I haven't tried that upper spreader idea yet, maybe I'll make one up and give it a try.  Is it 49cm for the NFE & NSE?

thanks,
  Mike

NFE, not sure about NSE, but I think it is just generally a bit more pitch-friendly as it comes.

The default length I think is 51.  I actually moved it to 49.5 which worked pretty well; at that length - you can see it pulling it in a bit.

-Tom


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: randyg on October 19, 2011, 04:32 PM
On the original Nirvana, the stock upper spreader length is 50cm. Cutting it to 49cm is the way to go.

As for the tail weight, the garden variety Nirvana did come with 15g. The Icone versions have a 5pt spine and may have 18g stuffed in the tail but I do not know for certain. My Collector had 18g. My favorite set up was 20g total on the tail. If you've got 33g, something ain't right somewhere. I am fairly certain of that.

You should check the US placement along the LE. LS placement as well. Fold the LE together and measure from the tip of the nose to the APA seam. Measurement should be 33.5cm. To the LS APA, 97cm. If the US is in the incorrect position it will likely affect yoyos. Also, the center T should be placed exactly in the center of the cutout. Standoffs perpendicular to the LS as well.

In my experience, 33g will foul up flat spins and the nose will go goofy with Half Axels. At least that is what I recall all these years later. Of course, to each his own and if that is how you like it just go with it. I can certainly tell you I love me some Nirvana. :P


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: tpatter on October 19, 2011, 05:02 PM
Thanks for the information! 

I will check my kites measurements when I get home tonight. :)


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: Smeagol on October 19, 2011, 05:34 PM
+1!


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: tpatter on October 19, 2011, 08:47 PM
You should check the US placement along the LE. LS placement as well. Fold the LE together and measure from the tip of the nose to the APA seam. Measurement should be 33.5cm. To the LS APA, 97cm. If the US is in the incorrect position it will likely affect yoyos. Also, the center T should be placed exactly in the center of the cutout. Standoffs perpendicular to the LS as well.


I may have found a problem.

By 'APA seam' do you mean the line that is at about the middle of the APA?  If so, I am about 0.75cm off.


Thanks,
-Tom


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: Shane on October 19, 2011, 08:49 PM
33g seems like an awful lot of weight... But I seem to recall Martin Madsen saying that is what he's using in his... Not that that is for everyone. But it seems to work for him.


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: Smeagol on October 19, 2011, 10:15 PM
Just measured mine:

Debray Replica US = 49.5 cm, spreader APA c-clips @ ~34 & 97 cm.  Nirvana SE US = 52 cm, spreader APA c-clips @ ~34 & 98 cm.

Interesting differences, maybe I should try a shorter US on the NSE.

-Mike


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: randyg on October 20, 2011, 05:27 AM
The Debray has different settings so cannot be used to compare.


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: Dolphinboy on October 24, 2011, 10:16 AM
I like the std N (the one with the 15g internal TW) with + 5 more g. So total TW 20g. The thing about the N is that it can take lots of different "mods" and amazingly still work. For me, it gets kind of weird with too much TW but some put a big chunk and still use it.

I also like the cut down US and set the bridle up heavy like DeBray.


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: tpatter on October 24, 2011, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the info.

It turns out that mine was a bit out of whack, 1.25 cm off on the top and several cm off on the bottom, also the centerT was way too high.

I am waiting on my new yoyo stoppers (old ones were worn to a nub, which makes me think that it was tuned in at some point).  Once I get those, I look forward to putting it all back together and taking it for a spin with the default weight (18.5 g in the tail on mine).


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: dihongshao2000 on October 26, 2011, 09:22 PM
I am waiting on my new yoyo stoppers (old ones were worn to a nub, which makes me think that it was tuned in at some point).  Once I get those, I look forward to putting it all back together and taking it for a spin with the default weight (18.5 g in the tail on mine).
It flies really well as it is now after a few minutes of spinning last time at Kite Hill.  Hard to imagine it can get any better.  If at all possible, would really like to give it a try again after you have it all put back to its default setting, before the VF-21 deadline would be the best  :).  D


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: tpatter on October 30, 2011, 01:02 PM
Thanks Randy.  I made the upper and lower apa adjustments and the kite now easily yoyos with the default tail weight.

-Tom


Title: Re: Nirvanic State of Yo
Post by: randyg on October 30, 2011, 06:02 PM
Thanks Randy.  I made the upper and lower apa adjustments and the kite now easily yoyos with the default tail weight.
Sweet! A properly tuned Nirvana is quite a treat to fly. Glad it worked out.