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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Kite Building and Repair => Topic started by: B-13 on November 13, 2011, 08:15 AM



Title: Washing Sail
Post by: B-13 on November 13, 2011, 08:15 AM
Hello all,
I recently received my Nexus (for the girlfriend but will be more in my kite bag)
Noticed that when the sail is new, it's crisp and more rigid where as my hypno who is some months old is more soft feel and less crisp but remember it was like the Nexus before. Wondering if this is a deterioration of the sail itself or is normal after some use. Also i fly at the beach and wash my kites with fresh water everytime to get rid of the salt water and sand on them. Is this a bad practice?
On the other side, my new Zephyr is more crisp and smells brand new..wondering if i should wash them so often to avoid this..

Thanks


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: zippy8 on November 13, 2011, 08:40 AM
Wondering if this is a deterioration of the sail itself or is normal after some use.
This is perfectly normal. General creasing and wrinkling is to be expected. Remember that different fabrics (nylon, polyester, mylar) will feel and age differently too.

Quote
Also i fly at the beach and wash my kites with fresh water everytime to get rid of the salt water and sand on them. Is this a bad practice?
This is excellent practice. Getting salt water and general dirt 'n' grime off of the sail is always a good move but take care not to scrub the fabric as you run the risk of inflicting the sort of damage you're trying to avoid.

It's also a good move to make sure the fittings and bridle lines have any sand/grit removed from them too.

Mike.


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: B-13 on November 13, 2011, 08:52 AM
thanks for the prompt reply. However i just give them a good water flow for several minutes with fresh water and let the water flow through the nose re enforcement and the LE pockets to get rid of any dirt. The bridle lines and fittings are washed too. I do not rub the sail as i wash the kites assembled and let them dry al night long..some times all weeks in the room, not in the sun.
Glad to hear this is normal for the sails to change in crispness with some time.



Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: kiteking on November 13, 2011, 09:06 AM
A lot of beach fliers carry a paint brush to "brush off" the sand before packing up


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: B-13 on November 13, 2011, 10:19 AM
Kiteking, this is indeed a good method. Never thought of this before. But sometimes, after an unplanned dive in the water or some landings near the sea, the fabric will pickup little sand particles. The sail will get rid of them automatically as it dries but the nose, tail and LE fabrics will keep some moisture and pickup sands on landings. Will definitely bring a brush with me next time but washing will get rid of any salt crystal formed on the fabric.


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: King-J on November 13, 2011, 05:40 PM
My Wife sometimes gets a little jealous when I shower with mine ;)


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: B-13 on November 13, 2011, 07:13 PM
So you all noticed that with some time, the sail loose its crispness and tends to become more soft?
So this is normal and not from washing it up everytime from the beach


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: mikenchico on November 14, 2011, 12:16 AM
Yeah, that's normal, even beneficial. That crispness and stiffness isn't necessarily a property that we choose these fabrics for. I'm not a Rev/Quad flier but I've seen it stated in the quad area that a Rev with 20-50 hours use is a better flying kite then a fresh one. As the fabric softens it can form a smoother shape under pressure. Today the coatings that give that crispness have been researched and refined over many years, they soften some but it takes years of use before that breakdown negatively effects the properties that we do want in our kites.

It's not damaged or worn, just experienced, and better for it.



Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: johnfarl on November 14, 2011, 01:00 PM
I was told by no other than Mr Hoac to wipe my kite down with hair conditioner after washing it.  I think it provides some UV protection plus makes the sail crisp and not only that it shines with a luster.  It seems to work.  I usually use a mild hair shampoo during the washing. 

Skip the hair dryer and curlers though.

John


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: Allen Carter on November 14, 2011, 01:46 PM
I was told by no other than Mr Hoac to wipe my kite down with hair conditioner after washing it. 

That's pretty weird. 







Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: chilese on November 14, 2011, 04:45 PM
I agree Allen. You wouldn't want to get any of the hair conditioner in the eyes.  :)


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: Kantaxel on November 14, 2011, 09:06 PM
I agree Allen. You wouldn't want to get any of the hair conditioner in the eyes.  :)


I disagree................It isn't conditioner that bothers the eyes........it's the shampoo......unless, of course, one uses  'no tears' "BABY" Shampoo........I recommend Johnson and Johnson   ;)


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: ko on November 14, 2011, 09:43 PM
dry or normal hair? extra body?


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: B-13 on November 14, 2011, 09:43 PM
You guys are the craziest fliers ever met!
Does this hair conditioner thing really works? i have an old Paimpol kite and willing to test this on it? How do you apply it?
NO NO NO i'm not joining the crazy team you are, only testing your weird solution  :D


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: tpatter on November 14, 2011, 10:02 PM
Never tried it, although I have showered quite a few.  I've been told that it brings back that new sail 'krinkle' if you know what I mean.


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: B-13 on November 14, 2011, 10:25 PM
Never tried it, although I have showered quite a few.  I've been told that it brings back that new sail 'krinkle' if you know what I mean.

i don't bother about the crinkle on the sail and don't want them back as they can damage the laminate on the sail itself when packing. Just the stiffness and crispness as it was new. Will have some try out on an old kite and revert back...after the disaster  :D


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: johnfarl on November 15, 2011, 05:15 PM
Applying hair conditioner
Wash kite first then take a bottle of conditioner and wipe it the kite down with a rag soaked in conditioner.  Leave the kite with us and ls in but not standoffs to dry.

John


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: tpatter on November 15, 2011, 05:32 PM
I'm game - he has only given me good advice so far!  :)


Title: Re: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: DD on November 15, 2011, 06:01 PM
Ok I'll bite, what it's putting conditioner on it suppose to do? The it dries on there?


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: ko on November 15, 2011, 07:23 PM
303 it has GREAT uv inhibitors,anti static properties does not get sticky and leaves a satin not shiny look I have been using this product for years in a marine environment on all types of surfaces (even kites lol)


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: johnfarl on November 15, 2011, 08:04 PM
Yeah but does 303  give full body crispness??


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: B-13 on November 15, 2011, 08:14 PM
Tell us more about the hair conditioner  ;D
The 303 is somewhat difficult for me to find, and for some of us too, but stealing some hair conditioner from the wife stock is easier, if not more risky  :D


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: ko on November 15, 2011, 08:56 PM
Yeah but does 303  give full body crispness??
not really more along the lines of dry to normal kite conditioning


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: Kantaxel on November 16, 2011, 01:56 AM
No extra body? :o


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: ko on November 16, 2011, 07:22 AM
after reading the info on the back of the bottle ,sadly,NO, no extra body.I guess i will look into the Pantene line, although now i am worried that my kites are no longer "all that they can be" as a result of my negligence and ignorance


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: mikenchico on November 16, 2011, 07:34 AM
303 came into kiting via the ballooners, they were using it to recondition their fabrics and reporting it helped decrease the porosity of the fabrics. One of the members over on kitebuilder did some unscientific tests with it (I think it was Kiteguy also on this forum) and reported the first application did seem to add some body and decrease porosity. Using our typical logic that if some is good more would be better he tested a second application and did not perceive any additional benefits. As I recall he also said it did deepen and brighten the colors. I bought some after that for the waterproofing but it doesn't seem to do anything for that, my hat still soaked up water like a sponge. It does however work well on my pool liner and I like it better then other brands on my cars.

Kent over at Wind of Change Kites (link on the right) suggested another treatment being used by the power kiters on their foils. I believe it comes from the backpacking community for use on tent fabrics but I can't recall the name. It was a treatment to be used in a washing machine though which isn't so easy on our framed kites. Maybe he'll pop in or give him a call, it sounded real promising as long as it could be wiped on and rinsed off for us.



Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: mikeb on November 16, 2011, 09:26 AM
I would use McLube SAILKOTE.


Title: Re: Washing Sail
Post by: ko on November 16, 2011, 05:27 PM
303's water treatment is called Fabric Guard. its ok but the higher end water proofing products all seem about the same to me. 303 does deepen the color i don't use the fabric guard for 2 reasons #1 i dont fly in the rain and #2 I don't use my kites for rain apparel