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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: Adamld13 on December 20, 2011, 12:32 PM



Title: Good vented kites?
Post by: Adamld13 on December 20, 2011, 12:32 PM
Im thinking I need to add another vented kite to my bag but im not sure which ones are good.
Currently the only vented kite I own is a Silverfox 2.5 VTD. Im pretty happy with it but I find its like flying a tank sometimes, not the most agile kite. IM sure that some of this is due to the bridle settings but ive tuned it to where it tricks the best for my liking and I dont feel like muckin around with it.  Ive been paying attention to the wind ranges for vented kites and the silverfox has one of the highest wind ranges that I have seen at 30mph. Where I live its either a very light breeze or windy enough to even chase the fox vented to the edge of the window. Im wondering if anybody knows of any vented kites that are good for tricking but also able to fly in extreme winds?


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: chilese on December 20, 2011, 01:39 PM
30 mph +

Do you need to be out  in those winds?

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hNvDLWPGKCM/TUpNuqrPlxI/AAAAAAAA9CA/pET-jFVA4RI/s800/5529%252520Mega%252520Vented%252520Rev.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/110054276296809616662/KTAI2011LasVegas#5569349353322026770)


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Adamld13 on December 20, 2011, 01:51 PM
Yes living in Calgary is a joy ::) The wind is almost always variable here so what more can I do than prepare myself? It is winter here 8 months of the year and that means a lot of gusty wind :'(
Maybe that 30mph the fox is rated for isnt realistic?


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: RonG on December 20, 2011, 02:11 PM
Maybe that 30mph the fox is rated for isnt realistic?

The manufacturer's upper and lower wind ranges are almost always to be taken with a grain of salt.  The upper wind range should usually be read as "it won't immediately explode if subjected to this much wind".  Being enjoyable and performing well are other matters entirely.

If you're looking for advanced trick capabilities, you're not going to find much that makes it easy for you at 20mph, much less 30mph.  Any videos you may see of people doing amazing things with dual line kites in ballistic wind are much more a tribute to the reflexes and fitness of the pilot than to the innate abilities of the kite.

Speaking in broad generalities, the less the kite is vented, the more it will retain the characteristics of its unvented siblings.  And the less it's vented, the more is asked of the pilot as the wind picks up.  It sucks, but it's true.


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: thief on December 20, 2011, 02:20 PM
Guildworks Deca A1 for a quad option....


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: indigo_wolf on December 20, 2011, 02:49 PM
At 30+mph do you want to trick or just fly?

HQ Batkite and Delta Hawk will handle the 30+ winds but will haul you around and require 220-300lb linesets.

ATB,
Sam


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Adamld13 on December 20, 2011, 03:10 PM
I'm just looking for a good dual line vented that has a high wind range but still tricks decent.
I think the "30mph" is sidetracking this thread. I only used it because that what my current vented is rated for. I'm not asking what kite will do tricks in a tornado.


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Hadge on December 20, 2011, 03:46 PM
Getting any kite to trick very much above 20mph you will need to be both good and quick. I would imagine that a 2.5m minimally vented kite like the Silver Fox would be quite a handful.  Maybe something a bit smaller, say around  2m might be better as it's going to generate less pull but even then much over 20mph and you need to be going home or just flying for fun. I vented my own HQ Jive which seems to work quite well up to just over 20mph but after that I'm just carving up the sky.


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: thief on December 20, 2011, 03:47 PM
Aerodrone Speed limit....


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Smeagol on December 20, 2011, 04:26 PM
Yeah, that's usually when I break out the Flexifoils (Hotshot!), Microns, or one of the speed kites.  Not much tricking going on.

-Mike


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: chilese on December 20, 2011, 05:29 PM
At least with the Speed Limit you get dynamic variable venting DVV™.

If your wind varies a lot while flying, this kite would definitely help.

Plus, it is really cool to see the vents opening and closing while in flight.

However, it's trick capabilities.....well......

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D-Umzn-jISs/S2EmxTogW1I/AAAAAAAAmDg/WIDWEw9FqPg/s800/10051%252520Speed%252520Limit%252520double.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/110054276296809616662/2005Kites#5431665254111140690)


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: thief on December 20, 2011, 05:33 PM
Speed limit tricks fine....you just need to make sure to giva a LOT of slack!


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Adamld13 on December 20, 2011, 06:14 PM
Pretty cool looking kite John!
I know once the wind picks up tricking is a lot harder.
I would just like to have more than one kite to choose from when the wind is over 25km
Anybody familiar with the cosmic tc, soul or talon vented?


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: lylenc on December 20, 2011, 11:39 PM
I go to Manzanita, OR each year in July. The 30+ mph winds have become the most common condition. To get decent air time and do more than loopty loop stuff, I got a Vented Rev 2. The Rev in the second post above is gorgeous; not sure if it is the Extra Vented Rev B 1.5 or a custom of some kind, but it should easily handle 30+ mph, too. Now I'm lusting for one like it. 

When you are ready to branch out to quads, you'll find that the vented ones will do almost everything quads normally do in lighter winds. The vented versions are more stable (less twitchy) than the full sail versions. Same as dual line, you won't be doing slack line stuff on Revs in 30+ mph, however, quad slack line stuff is a lot smaller portion of flying compared to dual line kites. Dive stops, spins, ladders, cartwheels, side slides, forward, backward, upright, inverted, and stalls anywhere in the window are all there for the taking in high winds, to keep one entertained for hours.


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: inewham on December 21, 2011, 02:46 AM
Alternatively if you see a used one for sale, a Fury .85 (not vented) with back brace, stuffed spars and fitted with a set of wah pads is surprisingly good in ballistic winds.

On a really stupid wind day I found mine could go higher than a Psycho and still remain trickable, and retained its feel unlike the super vented Masque I had at the time (I could have buggied with that).

They definitely have theyre own technique but are extremely capable kites with a very wide wind range. Hard work in that wind but still fun.


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: obijuankenobe on December 21, 2011, 03:14 AM
It's simple physics.  If the wind is blowing 25mph...you need to move your body and arms faster than that to create slack.  Running forward at 10mph means the kites still feels more than 15mph.  You might be able to combine arm and leg movement to create brief slack, sure.  But high winds also means far from steady or even wind...another prerequisite for really enjoying the experience.  All your inputs could be spot on perfect and completely identical every time and in high winds the extra variables will frustrate you.  Vents do almost NOTHING to help tricking.  They bleed pressure so that the kite won't explode.  And they create odd behavior in other positions (fade and turtle).  That's it.

Or...you must have a kite that can enter alternate positions without slack.  Some kites can flop into a turtle in high wind, and thus can be made to do a snap lazy or even an inverse.  The rolling cascade is a good high wind sequence.  I can think of the Transfer...and the Cosmic.  And then you are limited to these tricks and to other tricks that need pressure...like the comete.  2PT landings can be nice if you dare.

But in 25mph...any kite...vented or not...will, in a master's hands, only do about three rungs of the JL starting from the edge...before it powers up and flies away.

Tricking in high winds is antithetical to the whole idea of trying to achieve aoxomoxoa IMHO.  If you are looking for venting to help you...you are looking in the wrong direction.  Instead, look for a STRONG framed kite...and learn which tricks 'need' pressure...and which tricks need slack.  The tricks that need slack...save those for days when you can create slack as the pilot. 

I live in Norway.  The wind here sucks.  Whereas I used to fly 5 days per week in the Netherlands...I fly four times a year here.  That is life with weather featuring either dead or gusting winds combined with uneven tree covered terrain. 

Once you have flown a few times on a beach in winds under 15mph...the hard core 'fly any time any where any conditions' newbie inside you will die.  It will be a good riddance.

obi 


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: RonG on December 21, 2011, 03:31 AM
Once you have flown a few times on a beach in winds under 15mph...the hard core 'fly any time any where any conditions' newbie inside you will die.  It will be a good riddance.
There is some truth to that, at least in my experience.

I have always viewed a vented kite as an unfortunate necessity if you're going to compete, rather than something one owned for fun.  Most vented kites are not much more fun in 25 mph winds than a standard kite would be, they've simply had aspects of their performance significantly compromised in order to survive high winds.  Every vent you cut into an existing sailplan is going to change something, and rarely for the the better - anyone who tells you otherwise is probably trying to sell you something.  In my own case, designing my own competition kite started more as an experiment to see if I could come up with a high wind kite I could tolerate, since most of what I had tried prior to that fell far short.

The amusing thing (to me, anyway) is that most of the times someone raves about how the "vented version flies just like the standard", they're flying the vented kite in 10-15mph winds.  IOW winds that are just barely higher than what the standard kite can handle.

And regarding the Speed Limit (mentioned earlier in the thread), those variable vents were no free lunch either.  I competed with that kite long enough to know (both the original version and the 1998 update).  The variable venting did a nice job of smoothing out gusts, which was a plus for maintaining even speed across the window.  But a kite that interprets every strong input the pilot gives (like during a slack line trick, or even a stall) as a "gust" is going to require some very specific technique to fly, and even more technique to trick.


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Bob D on December 21, 2011, 04:27 AM
I think Ron sums it up about right. I fly my Nirvana vented and Transfer xt.r vented in 10-15. Like Ron said, it's only really fun if it's in a range that's just beyond the standard's range.

I DID fly my Rev Supersonic a few weeks ago when the wind was really moving and it was great fun. I have a vented B Series and a vented Rev 1 that are nice too when the wind is too fast for a dual.


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Adamld13 on December 21, 2011, 07:09 AM
I wouldn't even leave the house if the wind is over 25km. But often I go out when it's 9km and within an hour it's gusting up to 35km or so. The ONLY reason I even mentioned 35mph is because that is what my fox is rated for...whether its realistic or not. I'm asking about what other vented kites there are? For the few who have read more than just the thread title and givin ideas thank you:)


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: Danno419 on December 21, 2011, 08:33 AM
I wouldn't even leave the house if the wind is over 25km. But often I go out when it's 9km and within an hour it's gusting up to 35km or so. The ONLY reason I even mentioned 35mph is because that is what my fox is rated for...whether its realistic or not. I'm asking about what other vented kites there are? For the few who have read more than just the thread title and givin ideas thank you:)
Adam... just pack the snapshot... bring some treadless shoes... and i'll meet you on the other side of the park.
 :D


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: RobB on December 21, 2011, 09:22 AM
Although I can fly & trick (on the edge) my vented QPro in some serious winds, I switch to a Rev B series full vent when the wind is solidly over 15mph. Both kites can be flown up to 30mph+, but the Rev is more fun. It depends if you're out for a workout, or just want to fly for fun.
You can spend the day running with the 2 line, or just hanging out with the quad.


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: tpatter on December 21, 2011, 09:47 AM
As obi said, high wind is the perfect time to practice high-wind tricks, forget about the pinwheel in those winds!  :)

I love high wind flying with a smaller kite with light pull and the ability to execute tricks as fast as a I want which all help in higher wind flying.  The pull is a deal breaker for me.  If the kite pulls too much in 20, then I don't want it because I won't fly it. 

The kite will show you when it is near it limits and then you can back down.  My standard will fly in the 20s, but not as comfortably.  I pull out in the vent in gusty nasty wind or when it's holding a steady 15+.

So, FL or T, in high winds, it's a vented Lam kite for me!  :)


Title: Re: 30mph+ vented kites?
Post by: lylenc on December 21, 2011, 10:29 AM
Tricking in high winds is antithetical to the whole idea of trying to achieve aoxomoxoa IMHO. 

Once you have flown a few times on a beach in winds under 15mph...the hard core 'fly any time any where any conditions' newbie inside you will die. 
obi 

That's especially true for us old farts. After flying for some period of months or years, the Zen comes more from quality than quantity of time in the air. My body can't tolerate much hard pull, or worse, looking up high in the window. Even the Vented Rev 2 is hitting my physical limits at 35 mph, but I can keep it low in the window. With so few beach vacation days available each year, it's worth it ... until I get back home. I'm willing to pay the recovery price for the next two weeks. This year, it was four weeks, so I may have to switch to one of those thong quads.


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: Adamld13 on December 21, 2011, 06:08 PM
Hahaha..... No Dan I will pass on that one:P Sounds to much like work  :D
I've actually been considering trading or selling the snapshot.



Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: JimB on December 22, 2011, 06:50 AM
Have a look at the Talon vent.

It's definitely a trick kite.

It's definitely a vent.

Don't expect miracles.



Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: Patchouli on December 22, 2011, 07:38 AM
I have a Silver Fox 2.5 vented. I used 150ftx150# lines and I can yoyo,fade,JC'ed in high wind but it's a workout.  When I get tired I switch for my rev.  ;D Adam dont be lazy !  ;D


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: Wayner on December 22, 2011, 12:02 PM
I own is a Silverfox 2.5 VTD. Im pretty happy with it but I find its like flying a tank.

I found the same with mine SF and quickly went looking for something else. Picked up 3 kites that work for me.

HIGH WINDS
Picked up a Mantis V2 on the swap meet based on recommendations of forum members. Love it.

IN TURBULENCE
Don't know your wind conditions but in Las Vegas our high winds come with turbulence. The Mongoose is very very effective in working with less than ideal wind. Handles high wind as well.

FOR FUN
Like others have said get a 6 footer. For me it is a Jumping Jack Flash that is quick and a blast to fly.


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: Michel on December 23, 2011, 12:02 PM
The Atelier Transfer xt.s VV has been flown by winds 70 km/h (On the left, that's Tame Bird's Team kites at Berck-sur-mer kite festival).

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6789/bercketquiberon006070mo.jpg)


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: Bob D on December 23, 2011, 01:19 PM
I tried out the xt.s standard and it's a BIG kite with lots of pull. I like the xt.r with partial vents when it's between 10 and 15 mph. L'Atelier kites are nice kites!


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: JimB on December 24, 2011, 12:13 AM
Well I like the Xt.s VV, but it is definitely a lot of kite on the lines.


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: kiteslinger on December 24, 2011, 08:43 AM
Xts vv
(http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/32571/2589895090072413283S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2589895090072413283oMNTub)
didn't have too much pull just reported a thud back to the pilot  via the handles with the 8 pt frame and 8 foot wing span going through trick combos


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: ko on December 28, 2011, 04:25 PM
Adam I just posted a couple of pics in Robs thread about PAIN. it shows the 1/2 panels i made for my Quantum Pro VV it is a much better flyer this way IMO I think I got the Idea from canaxle


Title: Re: Good vented kites?
Post by: Adamld13 on December 28, 2011, 05:09 PM
Nice kite ko! Thanks for the pic! If i ever get a vented pro I will have to try that:)