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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Beginners Corner => Topic started by: sky drone on May 23, 2012, 10:19 AM



Title: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 23, 2012, 10:19 AM
Hello, new to the forum here and new to flying.  I've been lurking for a few weeks and doing some research but I find a lot of things are very scenario specific so I thought I'd make a post.

I think I may have made a wrong turn out of the gate as I went with a Premier Vision as my first stunt kite.  After reading a bit on here... it seems the kite is not very tricky and might give me problems.

Is this an OK kite to start with for tricking (will it do some decent tricks with ease) or am I going to be struggling to make it trick while also being new?

I'm in New Smyrna Beach, FL (next to Daytona Beach) and it seems like it is very hit or miss on days I can actually keep the vision in the air... This kite is rated to fly from 5-20mph winds... but it seems like when the winds are at 5mph I have to do a lot of walking and work to keep it in the air... it just kind of gently floats down after I get it up.   When the winds get up to about 12mph it stays in the air beautifully.  Is this something I am doing wrong or maybe just the kite doesn't fly well in low wind?  Should I look at an ultralight for days when I can only get around 5-6mph?

Is there any common advise on learning to trick with an ultralight?  Is there a high chance you could break an ultralight from crashing it too much while learning to trick?  Will most ultralights fly in 20mph winds or is it too much?

Sorry if I'm asking things that are already answered, but I did my best to do a little research before posting.  Any help is greatly appreciated!


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Tmadz on May 23, 2012, 10:36 AM
My input is really worth only two cents, but I can give you a perspective from a newbie.

1. the low end of the wind speed range is usually the very bottom. I have had to walk my kite more than a few times when I fly. I always pay very close attention to the wind forecast when I plan on flying. I use the wind alert app on my phone or the website the days before and the day of when I plan to fly. I then have an idea of what I'm going to face.

2. I don't have an UL, but I haven't needed it yet. I fly a Quantum. A strong, solid kite that will be able to do enough for me for a while. I have heard of people going to Hypnotists because it has a wider range of skills, but there are so many good kite to choose from. My skills are limited and I haven't wanted to spend the money just yet. Maybe in the height of Summer when the winds die down I'll get an UL. The members on this forum are veritable encyclopedia of kiting knowledge and experience and they will definitely get you many more suggestions on a good kite, but I have learned that you need to test drive them because everyone's "feel", skills and technique are different for each kite.

By the way, to save your kite from lawn darting, run at it and reach out to release the tension on the line and sail. It will reduce the speed and force of impact. These folks will be able to help you more than I, but I think we're in the same boat.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 23, 2012, 10:49 AM
Thanks for the reply.  Some good information I'll keep in mind as well. I guess my main concern is, I want to fly every few days to get a lot of practice in, but I am not able to some days because of the light wind... just thought maybe having an ultralight and a standard might help a bit.  I can go to the beach to fly which means the wind will almost always be around a minimum of 5mph and a max of 30mph.

Edit:

Thanks for the Wind Alert app...  was actually looking for a good app like this to see wind locally.


Where is a good online shop to buy LPG lines?  Doesn't look like Chico Kites does?   I want to get some around 70-80ft.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Bob D on May 23, 2012, 01:08 PM
I've found that you always have to add a few more MPH to the rated wind range. If it's for 5 at the low end, that probably means it's going to need a nice breeze to get going. Premier has some nice kites but I'm not familiar with the Vision. I have a Premier Nighthawk that's got a nice range. I probably wouldn't recommend a UL right away because you'll probably end up breaking something as you learn. And at the high end, anything over 15 and I go to the Revs because it's too hard to trick a dual.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 23, 2012, 01:39 PM
Thanks for the reply bob... that's kind of why I was thinking I would wait to get a UL, just thought i'd grab some other people's opinions.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Ca Ike on May 23, 2012, 01:51 PM
Hello, new to the forum here and new to flying.  I've been lurking for a few weeks and doing some research but I find a lot of things are very scenario specific so I thought I'd make a post.

I think I may have made a wrong turn out of the gate as I went with a Premier Vision as my first stunt kite.  After reading a bit on here... it seems the kite is not very tricky and might give me problems.

Is this an OK kite to start with for tricking (will it do some decent tricks with ease) or am I going to be struggling to make it trick while also being new?

THe vision is a great starter kite and actually quite tricky.  However being a small kite, as I'm sure you've found already, it can get fast so tricks will be a bit harder to learn.

Quote
I'm in New Smyrna Beach, FL (next to Daytona Beach) and it seems like it is very hit or miss on days I can actually keep the vision in the air... This kite is rated to fly from 5-20mph winds... but it seems like when the winds are at 5mph I have to do a lot of walking and work to keep it in the air... it just kind of gently floats down after I get it up.   When the winds get up to about 12mph it stays in the air beautifully.  Is this something I am doing wrong or maybe just the kite doesn't fly well in low wind? 
 THe low rating on most kites is the speed you can get it off the ground and do something.  You will have to adjust the kite and move to keep it up but thats all part of stunt kiting.  3 mph over minimum will let you do a lot with little movement and for the vision the sweet spot is 8-15 for a new flier and 5-20 for a seasoned flier

Quote
Should I look at an ultralight for days when I can only get around 5-6mph? Is there any common advise on learning to trick with an ultralight?  Is there a high chance you could break an ultralight from crashing it too much while learning to trick?  Will most ultralights fly in 20mph winds or is it too much?
 DOn't run out to get an ultralight.  Get a good full size standard to compliment your vision.  UL's by design are more fragile and will not handle newbie abuse well at all.  With a good full size std you should have no problem flying in 3-6 range and learning to fly a full size std and your vision in the low end of their ranges will teach you a lot more about kite and line management than you would think.  Also as a new flier you won't read the wind well and will often try to fly in lower wind than you think you have. in 5-6 mph 1/2 inch thick tree branches barely move, 3-4 leaves rustle, below 3 leaves barely move.

Quote
Sorry if I'm asking things that are already answered, but I did my best to do a little research before posting.  Any help is greatly appreciated!
The only dumb question is the one not asked


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 23, 2012, 03:21 PM
Cool thanks for the posts guys... should I go with some shorter lines when trying to work in the low wind range (4-8mph)?

Right now the set I have are 90ft long 110lb test.  I was thinking of getting two new sets of lines if it is easier to work with shorter lines in low wind.

Was thinking about LPG 90lb @ 80ft for standard flying and then maybe another set of LPG a bit shorter maybe even lower test.  Any thoughts?



Ca Ike, what would you consider a good full size?  90 inches?  I was under the impression the bigger the kite, the more wind you need.  I guess it really just depends on the kite and how they made it.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 23, 2012, 03:30 PM
Also, do you guys think the vision will pull a 48foot transition tail?   The wife loves watching the kites with the tails on them.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: st3307 on May 23, 2012, 03:41 PM
  if  your  looking   for  a   very  good    starter  kite  that  will grow  with  you  Look  at a  Sky burenr   freestylist   one  of  the  most  under rated  kites  of  it   time   it     is  88"     and   will fly  in  4-20    with  no   worries  and    it  has   a  UL  also     rated   2-12         the  fulls set  will  cost  you  around   300   dollars   giver  or  take     they  are  very  stable   in  flight       but  will grow  with  you  and  have  all  monder   tricks  in  them 


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Hadge on May 23, 2012, 04:17 PM
Around 90" would be a good size to start with, a larger kite will usually need less wind to fly, although they are heavier they have a bigger sail area so catch the wind more efficiently. Take a look in the Swapmeet on this site, there are many really good secondhand kites there at great prices. Get a few ideas about which kites you like the look of and then ask again and the folks here will be able to guide you in the right direction.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: mikenchico on May 23, 2012, 08:25 PM
A 48' Transition Tail might be pushing the little Vision a bit unless you have some pretty good wind on your side.

The above rec's to look into a full size standard are right on if you have reliable winds in the 5 mph range on the beach any mid quality & above full size standard should have no problems flying in that.

I still love my Freestylists, as Bobby pointed out they have been seriously overlooked, the same build quality as every Skyburner kite only using a Nylon sail and straight rather then tapered tubes on the standard. There is absolutely nothing wrong that, they aren't downgrades but still top quality parts on a kite built by top quality craftsmen. It just allowed Jon to bring the kite out at 40% less then similar quality kites. The UL gets a Polyester sail and tapered spars at $40 more, still a bargain but gets it into the range of "Don't go super size on the next few "burger meal deals" and you can get the newer Ocius.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Ca Ike on May 23, 2012, 09:12 PM
actually if you stick to the 1.5  inch wide transition tails you can pull a 50 footer with the vision in a good solid 8mph.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 24, 2012, 05:19 PM
Cool thanks for all the input guys,  Still curious if it is worth getting a set of shorter lines (around 50ft) for days around 5mph?  Not even sure if flying with shorter lines helps in low wind?  haha


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Tmadz on May 24, 2012, 05:27 PM
I'm making a shorter set, lower # rating lines for those lower wind days and to help me with my trick learning.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Ca Ike on May 24, 2012, 05:37 PM
50-65#x 50' will work for light days


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: mikeb on May 24, 2012, 06:34 PM
Next to Daytona Beach? 90' lines are fine, 12mph? that's a vented breeze to me. I would just learn the 90's this year. On those low wind days, in Florida, in the summer, I'd sit in an air conditioned house until it reaches 12mph again. I'm sure you're enjoying the 90' lines for now.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 24, 2012, 07:30 PM
Thanks for all the info guys, this should keep me entertained for a while....  I appreciate it!


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: mikenchico on May 25, 2012, 07:23 AM
Length, even in low winds is a personal preference and also related to your conditions. I know some people who prefer longer lines then they would otherwise fly when the wind is low. The longer lines give you a bigger window and allow you to get the kite up out of the slower/dirtier boundry area, the wind close to the ground has been slowed by friction and disturbed by any obstructions or even rolling elevation changes in an otherwise open area.

Myself, I prefer shorter lines even in our garbage winds, I feel disconnected from the kite on longer lines, that's just me though. I do agree with the longer line side though, you can often find flyable air up higher. But our conditions here get really strange, we will often have a dead zone up about 30 feet from the ground, you feel the wind, the kite will launch & climb then just die at 30', sometimes the wind is reversed up there and it will blow the kite toward you, better to be near the ground where you can feel the wind in those conditions. Plus I can't run a 360* to regain field on lines longer the 60', it's a long way to run to bring a kite across 250 feet of area with the wind at its back, I am 57 after all.



Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: DWayne on May 25, 2012, 08:07 AM
Also, do you guys think the vision will pull a 48foot transition tail?   The wife loves watching the kites with the tails on them.

How did this get by Mike ?

Denny


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 25, 2012, 09:18 AM
Also, do you guys think the vision will pull a 48foot transition tail?   The wife loves watching the kites with the tails on them.


How did this get by Mike ?

Denny


http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7517.msg66326#msg66326 (http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7517.msg66326#msg66326)

He answered earlier :)

Length, even in low winds is a personal preference and also related to your conditions. I know some people who prefer longer lines then they would otherwise fly when the wind is low. The longer lines give you a bigger window and allow you to get the kite up out of the slower/dirtier boundry area, the wind close to the ground has been slowed by friction and disturbed by any obstructions or even rolling elevation changes in an otherwise open area.

Myself, I prefer shorter lines even in our garbage winds, I feel disconnected from the kite on longer lines, that's just me though. I do agree with the longer line side though, you can often find flyable air up higher. But our conditions here get really strange, we will often have a dead zone up about 30 feet from the ground, you feel the wind, the kite will launch & climb then just die at 30', sometimes the wind is reversed up there and it will blow the kite toward you, better to be near the ground where you can feel the wind in those conditions. Plus I can't run a 360* to regain field on lines longer the 60', it's a long way to run to bring a kite across 250 feet of area with the wind at its back, I am 57 after all.


Thanks for the info Mike... I have noticed similar things here with the wind on specific days, some times its like once it gets to a certain height it just stops.  I may just grab a shorter set just to have handy and then after some good testing I'll know for sure which one I will prefer.



Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: DWayne on May 25, 2012, 10:32 AM
Also, do you guys think the vision will pull a 48foot transition tail?   The wife loves watching the kites with the tails on them.


How did this get by Mike ?

Denny


[url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7517.msg66326#msg66326[/url] ([url]http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7517.msg66326#msg66326[/url])

He answered earlier :)



Different Mike.  ;)

Denny


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Dolphinboy on May 25, 2012, 11:13 AM
Also, do you guys think the vision will pull a 48foot transition tail?   The wife loves watching the kites with the tails on them.

I have a couple of Visions and use them to reach newbies how to fly and do some basic tricks. 5 mph is not a problem for the kite but maybe more of a skill thing, so give it some time and you'll be working in in the recommended wind range - no problemo.

I also fly one at the beach with a 48' tail and have pulled double that with it before but only in strong wind, say 12 mph or more. I usually don't ever get it out to pull a tail unless the wind is getting past double digits and I want a change of pace for a bit.

Just use the Vision until you feel you want something else and then keep it in the bag to use a a teaching kite or pull that tail around in high wind.

The main trick to learning is to ENJOY it and everything else will come together for you.

Peace


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Dolphinboy on May 26, 2012, 08:23 AM
If you want a tail, I'd recommend 2 of the 24' Transition Tails ([url]http://www.chicokites.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=131[/url]), end to end.
The shorter tail is narrower and has less weight & drag than the 48' Transition Tail.


That's actually what I use on the Vision, 2x 24' transition. It's a small kite and that's a lot of tail for it but it'll pull it in decent wind anyway.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on May 26, 2012, 07:29 PM
Cool thanks for the tips on tails!


We had some decent wind today so I got a few hours in.  Was getting about 8mph or so pretty steady and then gusts up to 20 (was a bit tricky to do tricks when it was gusty) but still had a great time.

I managed to break the "leading edge bar" or whatever that thing is called by basically landing on the wing tip at almost full speed.  The kite basically just bounced down super hard on the wing tip and then shot back up in the sky.

It still flies quiet well even with the bar a little weakened at the end (didn't notice I broke it until I was taking the kite apart).  I've emailed Steve to see if he can get me a replacement part.   Basically learned that I have to be more careful when trying to skim the beach! 


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on June 01, 2012, 07:04 PM
Is Steve generally quick at responding?  Just figured I would of heard something back by now.  I used the email on the Chico kites website, is that the correct one? 


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Steve Hall on June 01, 2012, 08:05 PM
Sorry.  email sent. Although not much help.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on June 01, 2012, 08:18 PM
Oh, no problem.. just making sure I had the correct contact information.  Sometimes emails float into the black hole of spam.  I appreciate your time!


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: vertigo2u on June 03, 2012, 02:30 PM
I'm surprised at the number of guys who pull tails with the Vision.  I also pull transition tails with  the Vision.  I even hook another 50' of one inch color tail  on to it.  looks cool when it spins.  Also like Tony I have a five stack Vision train. 

Bad beginner kite.  You need a lot of wind and newbies are afraid to break kite anyway.   It moves to fast.  Small,durable,can do a few tricks.  But you have to have experience to fly her.  Even pulling tails  is not an easy take off or landing.... winds are crazy outside really high.. gusted to 57 mph yesterday...  ??? ??? ???


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: Imafloater on June 04, 2012, 05:55 AM
If you are in New Symrna we fly in Orlando at South Port Park by the airport.  You can usually find us there every Saturday.  We would be more than happy to have you came fly with us.  There are plenty of kites for you to try out from $30 that you can lawn dart to your hearts content to really high end stuff that just makes you wan to drool.  I you'd like kick me an e-mail with contact info and I can let you know exact times.  Regardless keep flying it only gets easier.

P.S. It sounds basic but make sure your flying lines are even or nothing good is going to happen.


Title: Re: New to Flying
Post by: sky drone on June 25, 2012, 06:11 PM
Thanks for the offer.  I usually don't like to drive that far, but I may take it up if I find something I absolutely really want to give a shot at flying.