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Kites! Kites! Kites! => Sport Kites => Topic started by: EnergonCube on May 16, 2009, 01:40 PM



Title: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: EnergonCube on May 16, 2009, 01:40 PM
I'm planning on purchasing a new kite later this summer and was thinking about the Talon or the Hydra. Can anyone give me some advice as to which one would be better for an intermediate level flyer? I'm interested in knowing which one would be best for learning more advanced tricks.

Thanks!
Greg


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Jared on May 16, 2009, 01:42 PM
You could do what I'm doing and get both :)  A Hydra for STD winds and a Talon UL for those lighter days!



Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: DWayne on May 16, 2009, 01:48 PM
I can't say anything about the Hydra as I've never flown one. But I can say that I have more fun flying my Talon than I've ever had flying any other kite. Most tricks are built into a Talon. Just ask and it does them.  8)


Denny


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: EnergonCube on May 16, 2009, 05:59 PM
You could do what I'm doing and get both :)  A Hydra for STD winds and a Talon UL for those lighter days!

Yeah. I could do that. But then why spit into the wind? My wife would would go ballistic. ::)   Gotta choose my battles carefully.  ;)


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Jared on May 16, 2009, 07:45 PM
You could do what I'm doing and get both :)  A Hydra for STD winds and a Talon UL for those lighter days!

Yeah. I could do that. But then why spit into the wind? My wife would would go ballistic. ::)   Gotta choose my battles carefully.  ;)

Heh, I understand that one.

Well, given that I haven't flown the Talon yet, you'll have to take this with a grain of salt,  but if you're an intermediate flyer looking to learn tricks, then the Talon might be the better bet.  I think it has a wider wingspan than the Hydra, and would probably fly a bit slower.  I let a friend of mine try the Hydra today, after he had been flying the Soul for about an hour, and his first (and oft-repeated comment) was "It's FAST!". 


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: jaydub on May 17, 2009, 01:26 AM
Greg,

I think you'll struggle to find anybody who has flown both, so you're only likely to get a slightly biased view from whoever comments.

I can safely say that I don't know anybody who has regretted purchasing a Talon or sees it as anything else than their 'go to' freestyle kite.

I bought one after six months flying and some angst about whether I was good enough for it.  I needn't have worried.  One of its great strengths is the way it likes to stay stalled and just gives you that bit more time to make the next move.  All kites have some compromises in their design, but the Talon is a kite that displays no major areas of weakness.  The biggest issue is that the bottom end of the wind range is ~5mph (at least in my hands), so you'll find yourself wanting to buy the UL as well at some stage.  :-\


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Bob D on May 18, 2009, 04:42 AM
If the Talon is a bigger and slower kite than the Hydra, then you wouldn't make a mistake by picking it over the Hydra. I flew my Mini Gem on Saturday after flying my Nirvana and the Minigem was just too fast. If you want to learn to trick, you're better off with something bigger and slower. A faster kite might axel real nice and fast but you have to be really fast with the inputs to get it to do other tricks that you're learning.

And besides, it seems that EVERYONE loves the Talon. I know that I'm tempted - even though I've finally gotten my bag full of great kites.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: EnergonCube on May 18, 2009, 06:32 PM
'Nuff said -- I'm sold. Talon it is! Plus, I'm in love with how cool it looks.  8)

Thank you, everyone!


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: King-J on May 18, 2009, 07:05 PM
'Nuff said -- I'm sold. Talon it is! Plus, I'm in love with how cool it looks.  8)

Thank you, everyone!

I think you made a good choice, as soon as Mark gets the knocks in, my UL should be finishing up and soon after he will be putting together my standard.
After flying Denny's standard I was sold.
I should have ordered both at the same time but because of my slow reaction, my standard got put at the end of the list (only fare).
After Talking with Denny & Steve on the last Chico Monthly Fly, they gave me an Idea about a guy how had all his kites the same color so his wife didn't know how many he had, will see if this works for me since I ordered both  ;)


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: EnergonCube on May 18, 2009, 08:05 PM
a guy had all his kites the same color so his wife didn't know how many he had, will see if this works for me since I ordered both  ;)

Haha! That's brilliant. Let me know how it goes.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: anOldMan on May 19, 2009, 10:25 AM
a guy had all his kites the same color so his wife didn't know how many he had, will see if this works for me since I ordered both  ;)

Haha! That's brilliant. Let me know how it goes.

Have fun hiding the vents. My other half+ seems to notice small things like that.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: jaydub on May 19, 2009, 12:16 PM
a guy had all his kites the same color so his wife didn't know how many he had, will see if this works for me since I ordered both  ;)

Haha! That's brilliant. Let me know how it goes.

Have fun hiding the vents. My other half+ seems to notice small things like that.

And I can't work out how you get your wives to even look at kites.  All mine does is look at the bank statements and tut.  ::)

All I get asked is: Why do you need so many?  What's wrong with the ones you've already got? etc, etc.  :-\


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: EnergonCube on May 19, 2009, 06:41 PM
All I get asked is: Why do you need so many?  What's wrong with the ones you've already got? etc, etc.  :-\

Well, truth be told, I do the same thing to my wife. Only it's over her shoes.  :D


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: kitebug on May 19, 2009, 07:54 PM
could they even be compared apples to apples? I have not flown either, but judging by shape and look of the sail they seem to be very different as far as how they will feel and fly at the other end of the handles



Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: moegeo on May 19, 2009, 08:03 PM
I flew a Hydra for about 30 mins at KP7... I really liked it.
A bit slower and less pitchy than the Talon. I love my Talon UL, its the first out of my bag.
I would like to hear from some Hydra owners, as they would have a lot more time on this kite.
As much as I'd like to add a Talon Standard to my collection...I think my next sport kite will be a Hydra.

Nice Build, and the Focus guys are great to deal with.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Dave a on May 23, 2009, 04:46 PM
"...I let a friend of mine try the Hydra today, after he had been flying the Soul for about an hour, and his first (and oft-repeated comment) was "It's FAST!"..."

Quote from: moegeo
I flew a Hydra for about 30 mins at KP7... I really liked it.
A bit slower and less pitchy than the Talon.
Ok, now im confused.
Im absolutley torn between these two, and these quotes arent helping  ???
I dont want a fast twitchy kite, and im sure both of these are excellent kites, but i wish i knew more about how these two compare side by side.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: KaoS on May 23, 2009, 06:31 PM

Im absolutley torn between these two, and these quotes arent helping  ???


At current exchange rates, a Talon is AUD$398 while a Hydra is AUD$380... I'd spend the extra $18  ;)


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: DWayne on May 23, 2009, 06:33 PM
The Talon is smooth and flowing. I wouldn't call it twitchy in any way. Even in 10 to 15 mph wind.


Denny


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Mark E Mark on May 24, 2009, 12:21 PM
I wouldn't call the Talon 'twitchy' either. It does respond to smaller inputs than some kites - more of a wrist and forearm input than big arm movements.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: EnergonCube on May 24, 2009, 02:37 PM
At current exchange rates, a Talon is AUD$398

Hmmm. Am I doing the exchange wrong? I'm coming up with $310 (using the British Pound and not the Australian Dollar). Does your estimate include shipping, too?


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: KaoS on May 24, 2009, 04:49 PM
At current exchange rates, a Talon is AUD$398

Hmmm. Am I doing the exchange wrong? I'm coming up with $310 (using the British Pound and not the Australian Dollar). Does your estimate include shipping, too?

According to XE dot com GBP198 = AUD402 = USD310 (it has gone up since yesterday).  This is the raw cost of a Talon (unshipped) and you get to choose your colours.

The cost of a custom (choose your own colours) Hydra is USD295 = AUD377.  So the difference is now AUD25 or USD15.  I'd still pay the extra and get a Talon.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: DWayne on May 24, 2009, 08:58 PM
The shipping charge on my Talon's was $0.00 each.
Don't know what Mark charges to ship to Oz. Or what Focus charges to ship.

Denny


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Dave a on May 25, 2009, 03:16 PM
At current exchange rates, a Talon is AUD$398 while a Hydra is AUD$380... I'd spend the extra $18  ;)

Ok, trigger pulled, Mark has my order  8)
You were right about the Soul, and you were right about the Double Zero (for different reasons), lets see if you will be 3 from 3.

...and i got permission from management !


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: jaydub on May 25, 2009, 03:57 PM
Not a decision I can imagine you regretting.

The Talon has been my 'go to' kite since December 2007.

Santa came up trumps with this one. :)


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: asburyparkjohn on May 26, 2009, 01:38 PM
I flew about a dozen kites at Wildwood and I would say the Hydra comes out on top in my opinion. They are not better than the Sea Devil but EVEN in my opinion as this is my go to kite but I personally like kites with easy inputs. The only adjustment I would have to make is for the FADE it does flare out real easy - even more easier than the Sea Devil! Its less twitchy than the QPro. It tracks SOLID with very little PULL. For the money - dollar for dollar its the best kite I flew at Wildwood. Actually DeBaker won the Masters Ballet with this kite. The only dilemma in talking to DeBaker it only comes in the Standard at this time. Its a kite worth testing if you are looking for a new STADARD replacement. I am not sure how better the new Nirvanna could be to this Hydra? I will be at Liberty State Park in July possibly to answer this question (for myself anyway)?


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Francois on May 26, 2009, 03:22 PM
I flew about a dozen kites at Wildwood and I would say the Hydra comes out on top in my opinion. They are not better than the Sea Devil but EVEN in my opinion as this is my go to kite but I personally like kites with easy inputs. The only adjustment I would have to make is for the FADE it does flare out real easy - even more easier than the Sea Devil! Its less twitchy than the QPro. It tracks SOLID with very little PULL. For the money - dollar for dollar its the best kite I flew at Wildwood. Actually DeBaker won the Masters Ballet with this kite. The only dilemma in talking to DeBaker it only comes in the Standard at this time. Its a kite worth testing if you are looking for a new STADARD replacement. I am not sure how better the new Nirvanna could be to this Hydra? I will be at Liberty State Park in July possibly to answer this question (for myself anyway)?

But you didn't fly a Talon right? (and i tought it was THE question asked)


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: Jared on May 26, 2009, 04:06 PM
I flew about a dozen kites at Wildwood and I would say the Hydra comes out on top in my opinion. They are not better than the Sea Devil but EVEN in my opinion as this is my go to kite but I personally like kites with easy inputs. The only adjustment I would have to make is for the FADE it does flare out real easy - even more easier than the Sea Devil! Its less twitchy than the QPro. It tracks SOLID with very little PULL. For the money - dollar for dollar its the best kite I flew at Wildwood. Actually DeBaker won the Masters Ballet with this kite. The only dilemma in talking to DeBaker it only comes in the Standard at this time. Its a kite worth testing if you are looking for a new STADARD replacement. I am not sure how better the new Nirvanna could be to this Hydra? I will be at Liberty State Park in July possibly to answer this question (for myself anyway)?

But you didn't fly a Talon right? (and i tought it was THE question asked)

Part of the problem is, there are very few people who've even flown both, let alone own both.  In this crowd, Frazier might be the only one qualified to offer an opinion on the side by side comparision.

Having spent a bit more time with my Hydra, and from having watched it in Paul's hands earlier this month at the Atlantic Coast festival, it has an amazing low wind range capability, thanks to the solid mylar just above the trailing edge.  I've been flying it all weekend in 2-3mph winds.  It actually flies in winds which are too light for my Zephyr, and that's a kite with an advertised 1-17mph wind range.

Likewise, I played around with Glen's Hydra in what had to be 16-20mph winds last month, and while it was bumpier, we were still able to trick with it.  So I wouldn't be put off by this "Standard" label on the kite, since it seems to have a capable range from 2-20, even in my own inexperienced hands.


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: asburyparkjohn on May 26, 2009, 04:55 PM
I can only comment on the Hydra. To me its like the Exile-UL - you will have a tough time finding even one flyer saying: "This kite did not work for me AT ALL." ;) ;) ;)


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: KaoS on May 27, 2009, 04:53 AM
The only adjustment I would have to make is for the FADE it does flare out real easy - even more easier than the Sea Devil!

Not sure what you mean by this, do you mean it is not easy to hold in a fade?


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: fworley on May 27, 2009, 05:23 AM
Well ... we all know about the Talon's so I'll speak up for the Hydra.

Its very nicely built and in the US (for those of you who care about such things) with interesting and innovative design features. It has a big wind range - from UL to strong STD and is not only very freestyle/trick capable - but it has decent precision too. Old skool / flatspins are nice .. and modern yo-yo and turtle moves are there too and very reachable. All this for a very fair price with custom colors available ... what more could you ask for ?

I'll be picking one up later in the year, 'nuff said ?

-Frazer



Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: DWayne on May 27, 2009, 06:02 AM
Well ... we all know about the Talon's so I'll speak up for the Hydra.

I'll be picking one up later in the year, 'nuff said ?

-Frazer



Not really. That's like saying "PFouts has one, must be good." Come on. What kites don't you guys own? To me, you buying one only means the kite looks cool and doesn't totally suck in flight.  :D


Denny


Title: Re: Talon vs. Hydra?
Post by: fworley on May 27, 2009, 06:25 AM
Well ... we all know about the Talon's so I'll speak up for the Hydra.

I'll be picking one up later in the year, 'nuff said ?

-Frazer



Not really. That's like saying "PFouts has one, must be good." Come on. What kites don't you guys own? To me, you buying one only means the kite looks cool and doesn't totally suck in flight.  :D


Denny
Oooo ! Smack down ... on the new-oh-so-cute-and-cudly-forum ? You'll get sanctioned carrying on that way >:(

I'll have you know Sir that I have far fewer kites these days !

Seriously though ... its a very fine kite.

-Frazer  ;)